DeAndre Baker had a motion approved to leave his gun with his attorney instead of turning it into police. He also will be permitted to return to NJ for any #Giants-related work, as needed.
and the case falls apart, there were quite a few on here who were judge jury and executioner without having the facts....tsk tsk
Regardless of the outcome, he has not handled his job like a professional and has embarrassed the Giants organization. Some were overboard but at the same time, does he really seem like a fit for what Judge wants? I hope he can turn his life/career around but damage has been done. He will be on very thin ice. It sounds like he'll get a second chance but we'll see what he does with that. Most people learn from their mistakes but there are countless others who continue to make the same mistakes over and over again.
But, as Robbie mentioned, DB has been wasting his opportunity thus far even without the alleged robbery incident. There's a maturity gap that he's going to need to address even if he is exonerated in this case.
I would still have concerns about a kid who was skipping meetings and going to ill-advised parties during a stay-at-home public health advisory - his judgment seems suspect even if his rap sheet stays clean.
Regardless of the outcome, he has not handled his job like a professional and has embarrassed the Giants organization. Some were overboard but at the same time, does he really seem like a fit for what Judge wants? I hope he can turn his life/career around but damage has been done. He will be on very thin ice. It sounds like he'll get a second chance but we'll see what he does with that. Most people learn from their mistakes but there are countless others who continue to make the same mistakes over and over again.
In the end, it will come down to whether he can play the position. Now, I have been saying that I felt our scheme was half the problem as it relates to our secondary. We have a new DC now who other players in the league speak highly of. There will be no excuse for Baker anymore.... or anyone else in the secondary.
and the case falls apart, there were quite a few on here who were judge jury and executioner without having the facts....tsk tsk
Regardless of the outcome, he has not handled his job like a professional and has embarrassed the Giants organization. Some were overboard but at the same time, does he really seem like a fit for what Judge wants? I hope he can turn his life/career around but damage has been done. He will be on very thin ice. It sounds like he'll get a second chance but we'll see what he does with that. Most people learn from their mistakes but there are countless others who continue to make the same mistakes over and over again.
Great point, still have to see how it turns out. But it seems like a young man that made a stupid mistake, maybe changes and goes on to have great success or becomes a perpetual screw-up. We will see.
Has never come out and said he wants choir boys, just last year he was the position coach for AB and Josh Gordon.
I’m not saying he’s gonna sweep this under the rug, but there’s a man behind these charges and I’ll bet he’s more focused on who DeAndre Baker, the person and player is, rather than the media and legal noise out there about him.
Once again no matter what, Goodell is not done with him
Didn't Zeke's charges get dropped? You can bet the NFL will do an exhaustive investigation into what went on here and he could very easily still get suspended for detrimental conduct.
from the Dunbar story I posted on the other thread, it is entirely
possible that NEITHER Dunbar nor Baker were even there as claimed. From the article:
"The warrant stated that Dunbar and Baker lost $70,000 while gambling at a party two night's prior. That would provide motive for the alleged robbery. Grieco told NBC Sports Northwest on Monday evening that he can account for Dunbar's whereabouts on Monday evening, and for good measure, Sunday evening as well. That gives him an alibi. As Grieco put it, the gambling loss was a "fabricated motive" and "can be disproven, just like the robbery."
"He was not with them that night or any other night," Grieco said of Dunbar's whereabouts in the night's leading up to the night of the alleged robbery."
So it's entirely poosible that none of it ever happened as originally reported.
RE: Once again no matter what, Goodell is not done with him
Didn't Zeke's charges get dropped? You can bet the NFL will do an exhaustive investigation into what went on here and he could very easily still get suspended for detrimental conduct.
Zeke actually did something, charges dropped or not. This Baker/Dunbar incident sounds like it may be a set up. Huge difference between the two.
Big if
This to me more than anything else says the case is BS
Didn't Zeke's charges get dropped? You can bet the NFL will do an exhaustive investigation into what went on here and he could very easily still get suspended for detrimental conduct.
Zeke actually did something, charges dropped or not. This Baker/Dunbar incident sounds like it may be a set up. Huge difference between the two.
Big if
Zeke got punished for habitually being in the news for dumb shit. This is a one off incident as of now.
RE: from the Dunbar story I posted on the other thread, it is entirely
possible that NEITHER Dunbar nor Baker were even there as claimed. From the article:
"The warrant stated that Dunbar and Baker lost $70,000 while gambling at a party two night's prior. That would provide motive for the alleged robbery. Grieco told NBC Sports Northwest on Monday evening that he can account for Dunbar's whereabouts on Monday evening, and for good measure, Sunday evening as well. That gives him an alibi. As Grieco put it, the gambling loss was a "fabricated motive" and "can be disproven, just like the robbery."
"He was not with them that night or any other night," Grieco said of Dunbar's whereabouts in the night's leading up to the night of the alleged robbery."
So it's entirely poosible that none of it ever happened as originally reported.
I don’t think anyone is denying they were there Tuesday night
and the case falls apart, there were quite a few on here who were judge jury and executioner without having the facts....tsk tsk
Regardless of the outcome, he has not handled his job like a professional and has embarrassed the Giants organization. Some were overboard but at the same time, does he really seem like a fit for what Judge wants? I hope he can turn his life/career around but damage has been done. He will be on very thin ice. It sounds like he'll get a second chance but we'll see what he does with that. Most people learn from their mistakes but there are countless others who continue to make the same mistakes over and over again.
Even if it turns out he did nothing? And that he wasn't even there? Ever? WHich would mean that he in effect, didn't make ANY mistake? I which case it would be back to maturing and getting/receiging better coaching.
Maybe you (and others here) should tone it down a little and wait for the facts before declaring such irreparable damage because right now it seems like this case is not going very far.
Nothing is better than not having to go to prison. Unfortunately, it may be too late to salvage his career with the Giants. But if it isn't, and there is nothing to this case and they can move forward together, save me a bite of crow!
but will you honestly be able to trust this kid? He's got even more to prove now, and wasn't knocking it out of the park before. Hope he's ready for what appears to be a steep, self-inflicted uphill climb.
RE: I know many here only care about the W's on the field
but will you honestly be able to trust this kid? He's got even more to prove now, and wasn't knocking it out of the park before. Hope he's ready for what appears to be a steep, self-inflicted uphill climb.
I agree, he has to show that he he's growing up and reliable, but too many here are frying the kid and the team for something that he may not even been involved in nor present for. Immature kid, yes, thug/crminal, doesn't look like that is going to hold up.
RE: I know many here only care about the W's on the field
but will you honestly be able to trust this kid? He's got even more to prove now, and wasn't knocking it out of the park before. Hope he's ready for what appears to be a steep, self-inflicted uphill climb.
You wouldn't be able to trust him if it's found that he did nothing illegal?
RE: I know many here only care about the W's on the field
but will you honestly be able to trust this kid? He's got even more to prove now, and wasn't knocking it out of the park before. Hope he's ready for what appears to be a steep, self-inflicted uphill climb.
Very rarely do guys overcome this stuff, but it is possible. Plax had incidents early in his career, and even though he likely didn't change much, he held it together enough.
If Baker takes anything out of this(assuming he gets cleared), he should realize that his career is one headline or bad situation away from being over.
Others here seem to be close to saying a bit better coaching will clear up his issues:
Quote:
...And that he wasn't even there? Ever? WHich would mean that he in effect, didn't make ANY mistake? I which case it would be back to maturing and getting/receiging better coaching. you (and others here) should tone it down a little and wait for the facts before declaring such irreparable damage because right now it seems like this case is not going very far.
Never mind that the comment was in response to robbie, whose take on this (my take too) has focused on the pattern of tuning out/disrespecting teammates, coaches, and playbooks and not zapping him primarily for Miami CSI. Never mind that his play in 2019 was atrocious. Napping during workouts.
Maturing? He needs a Giant course in growing up. I'd go GD one further by suggesting that if charges are dropped, it might make it harder for this kid to get straight, thinking he has gotten over, his way one more time.
but will you honestly be able to trust this kid? He's got even more to prove now, and wasn't knocking it out of the park before. Hope he's ready for what appears to be a steep, self-inflicted uphill climb.
You wouldn't be able to trust him if it's found that he did nothing illegal?
It’s pretty clear that at a minimum he brought a gun to a high stakes illegal dice game.
RE: RE: RE: I know many here only care about the W's on the field
but will you honestly be able to trust this kid? He's got even more to prove now, and wasn't knocking it out of the park before. Hope he's ready for what appears to be a steep, self-inflicted uphill climb.
You wouldn't be able to trust him if it's found that he did nothing illegal?
It’s pretty clear that at a minimum he brought a gun to a high stakes illegal dice game.
It isn't ever established that he was ever there. Now he likely was there and there's some truth to the story, but saying anything is "pretty clear" in a situation where the reports have differed drastically each day is ridiculous.
RE: RE: RE: I know many here only care about the W's on the field
but will you honestly be able to trust this kid? He's got even more to prove now, and wasn't knocking it out of the park before. Hope he's ready for what appears to be a steep, self-inflicted uphill climb.
You wouldn't be able to trust him if it's found that he did nothing illegal?
It’s pretty clear that at a minimum he brought a gun to a high stakes illegal dice game.
Not illegal as he has a current Florida CWP, IIRC.
Brandishing it would be.
In the one affidavit that was presented by the defense
but will you honestly be able to trust this kid? He's got even more to prove now, and wasn't knocking it out of the park before. Hope he's ready for what appears to be a steep, self-inflicted uphill climb.
You wouldn't be able to trust him if it's found that he did nothing illegal?
It’s pretty clear that at a minimum he brought a gun to a high stakes illegal dice game.
Not illegal as he has a current Florida CWP, IIRC.
Brandishing it would be.
Agreed, but the illegal dice game is illegal. And also explicitly against NFL policy.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I know many here only care about the W's on the field
but will you honestly be able to trust this kid? He's got even more to prove now, and wasn't knocking it out of the park before. Hope he's ready for what appears to be a steep, self-inflicted uphill climb.
You wouldn't be able to trust him if it's found that he did nothing illegal?
It’s pretty clear that at a minimum he brought a gun to a high stakes illegal dice game.
Not illegal as he has a current Florida CWP, IIRC.
Brandishing it would be.
Agreed, but the illegal dice game is illegal. And also explicitly against NFL policy.
Gambling on NFL games is against policy, not gambling in general.
even if this is proven completely false and Baker wasn't there the arrest gives Goddell the power to suspend him under the new CBA. Outside of financials, this is the type of stuff the players union did nott do a good job on when negotiating.
RE: RE: I know many here only care about the W's on the field
but will you honestly be able to trust this kid? He's got even more to prove now, and wasn't knocking it out of the park before. Hope he's ready for what appears to be a steep, self-inflicted uphill climb.
You wouldn't be able to trust him if it's found that he did nothing illegal?
It's not solely about illegality, the kid is walking into illegal gambling setups carrying a weapon. Even if properly registered, it shows a distinct lack of judgement and he's putting himself in dangerous situations. I question his maturity and judgement, and his track record with NYG doesn't inspire confidence that he's grasping what needs to be done.
but will you honestly be able to trust this kid? He's got even more to prove now, and wasn't knocking it out of the park before. Hope he's ready for what appears to be a steep, self-inflicted uphill climb.
You wouldn't be able to trust him if it's found that he did nothing illegal?
Only if Daniel Tosh gives him a web redemption.
Seriously though, the trust issues (IMO) have as much to do with him skipping virtual OTAs after being an immature child last season as they do with any illegal activity. Baker has yet to show the maturity that it takes to succeed in the NFL.
Others here seem to be close to saying a bit better coaching will clear up his issues:
Quote:
...And that he wasn't even there? Ever? WHich would mean that he in effect, didn't make ANY mistake? I which case it would be back to maturing and getting/receiging better coaching. you (and others here) should tone it down a little and wait for the facts before declaring such irreparable damage because right now it seems like this case is not going very far.
Never mind that the comment was in response to robbie, whose take on this (my take too) has focused on the pattern of tuning out/disrespecting teammates, coaches, and playbooks and not zapping him primarily for Miami CSI. Never mind that his play in 2019 was atrocious. Napping during workouts.
Maturing? He needs a Giant course in growing up. I'd go GD one further by suggesting that if charges are dropped, it might make it harder for this kid to get straight, thinking he has gotten over, his way one more time.
you fall into "and others here" :-)
1) no dispute in his lack of maturity 2) he was not atrocious on the field all year, he actually looked to be coming around down the stretch. And it was obivous to the whole world that he was being misused by an incompetent defensive staff, placing him in soft zone coverage when he was known to be an excellent press cover corner. 3) if in fact it is proven that he did not do any of what he was accused of, then what is he "getting over" on?? In that case he has been a victim of a smear which has adversely affected his career and future, and may have permanently damaged his reputation. "getting over" means he did it and got away with it, like Ray Lewis.
means a repetition of his doing things 'his way', and I refer to not taking to coaching, derisory though it may have been, disrespecting teammates and coaching, having little respect for the playbook and diligence in preparation, in short, some of those red flags. By getting over, I mean, in the Miami context, his being at this gambling game (assuming he was), with a firearm that he may or may not have brandished and generally showing poor judgment consistent with those <other> red flags. Miami going away might signify, to his mind, another instance where he did not have to make right his lack of good judgment.
I am not referring to the underlying counts with which he was charged over the w/e.
Others here seem to be close to saying a bit better coaching will clear up his issues:
Quote:
...And that he wasn't even there? Ever? WHich would mean that he in effect, didn't make ANY mistake? I which case it would be back to maturing and getting/receiging better coaching. you (and others here) should tone it down a little and wait for the facts before declaring such irreparable damage because right now it seems like this case is not going very far.
Never mind that the comment was in response to robbie, whose take on this (my take too) has focused on the pattern of tuning out/disrespecting teammates, coaches, and playbooks and not zapping him primarily for Miami CSI. Never mind that his play in 2019 was atrocious. Napping during workouts.
Maturing? He needs a Giant course in growing up. I'd go GD one further by suggesting that if charges are dropped, it might make it harder for this kid to get straight, thinking he has gotten over, his way one more time.
you fall into "and others here" :-)
1) no dispute in his lack of maturity 2) he was not atrocious on the field all year, he actually looked to be coming around down the stretch. And it was obivous to the whole world that he was being misused by an incompetent defensive staff, placing him in soft zone coverage when he was known to be an excellent press cover corner. 3) if in fact it is proven that he did not do any of what he was accused of, then what is he "getting over" on?? In that case he has been a victim of a smear which has adversely affected his career and future, and may have permanently damaged his reputation. "getting over" means he did it and got away with it, like Ray Lewis.
I'm genuinely asking this out of curiosity, but what makes this a smear campaign any more than Ray Lewis's situation? I think we generally all agree that Lewis did it and got away with it, but does anyone really know? He wasn't convicted, after all.
Isn't that precisely what some are asking of us as Giants fans right now? To let Baker's case play out in the legal system and to welcome him back if he isn't convicted or otherwise proven to have done it?
This is where it's important to remember the distinction between "innocent" and "not guilty." The burden of proof does not require Baker's attorney(s) to prove his innocence. And short of proving that he wasn't even there (which doesn't actually sound like it's in dispute in the way that I'm reading the updates, but I might be wrong), I don't know how any of us will ever know for sure that he didn't actually do it. Witnesses can recant their stories for a lot of reasons - not all of them rest squarely on honesty.
I'm not saying that Baker is anywhere near Ray Lewis, so please don't take this post that way. I'm just saying that if you're going to ask for Baker to get the benefit of the doubt based on the outcome of the legal proceedings, it feels a bit inconsistent to throw Ray Lewis out there.
Baker has a lot of growing up to do even if he didn't commit armed robbery. I don't know how this whole situation will end up impacting him and if it will help him to mature. But I know that no one framed him for sleeping in meetings and dogging his effort in practice and on the field. Those charges will stick until he dispels them himself, no matter what happens in the courtroom.
Others here seem to be close to saying a bit better coaching will clear up his issues:
Quote:
...And that he wasn't even there? Ever? WHich would mean that he in effect, didn't make ANY mistake? I which case it would be back to maturing and getting/receiging better coaching. you (and others here) should tone it down a little and wait for the facts before declaring such irreparable damage because right now it seems like this case is not going very far.
Never mind that the comment was in response to robbie, whose take on this (my take too) has focused on the pattern of tuning out/disrespecting teammates, coaches, and playbooks and not zapping him primarily for Miami CSI. Never mind that his play in 2019 was atrocious. Napping during workouts.
Maturing? He needs a Giant course in growing up. I'd go GD one further by suggesting that if charges are dropped, it might make it harder for this kid to get straight, thinking he has gotten over, his way one more time.
you fall into "and others here" :-)
1) no dispute in his lack of maturity 2) he was not atrocious on the field all year, he actually looked to be coming around down the stretch. And it was obivous to the whole world that he was being misused by an incompetent defensive staff, placing him in soft zone coverage when he was known to be an excellent press cover corner. 3) if in fact it is proven that he did not do any of what he was accused of, then what is he "getting over" on?? In that case he has been a victim of a smear which has adversely affected his career and future, and may have permanently damaged his reputation. "getting over" means he did it and got away with it, like Ray Lewis.
I'm genuinely asking this out of curiosity, but what makes this a smear campaign any more than Ray Lewis's situation? I think we generally all agree that Lewis did it and got away with it, but does anyone really know? He wasn't convicted, after all.
Isn't that precisely what some are asking of us as Giants fans right now? To let Baker's case play out in the legal system and to welcome him back if he isn't convicted or otherwise proven to have done it?
This is where it's important to remember the distinction between "innocent" and "not guilty." The burden of proof does not require Baker's attorney(s) to prove his innocence. And short of proving that he wasn't even there (which doesn't actually sound like it's in dispute in the way that I'm reading the updates, but I might be wrong), I don't know how any of us will ever know for sure that he didn't actually do it. Witnesses can recant their stories for a lot of reasons - not all of them rest squarely on honesty.
I'm not saying that Baker is anywhere near Ray Lewis, so please don't take this post that way. I'm just saying that if you're going to ask for Baker to get the benefit of the doubt based on the outcome of the legal proceedings, it feels a bit inconsistent to throw Ray Lewis out there.
Baker has a lot of growing up to do even if he didn't commit armed robbery. I don't know how this whole situation will end up impacting him and if it will help him to mature. But I know that no one framed him for sleeping in meetings and dogging his effort in practice and on the field. Those charges will stick until he dispels them himself, no matter what happens in the courtroom.
I'm not comparing Lewis to Baker. I'm using him as an example of "getting over" which I felt colhowpepper misused. And Lewis was so innocent he copped a plea as states witness in exchange for a suspended 1 yr sentence for obstruction, so clearly he was there and involved. And he paid $4 million to the victim's family to go away. Inside tale of Ray Lewis’ parking-lot brawl homicide case - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: I know many here only care about the W's on the field
but will you honestly be able to trust this kid? He's got even more to prove now, and wasn't knocking it out of the park before. Hope he's ready for what appears to be a steep, self-inflicted uphill climb.
You wouldn't be able to trust him if it's found that he did nothing illegal?
It's not solely about illegality, the kid is walking into illegal gambling setups carrying a weapon. Even if properly registered, it shows a distinct lack of judgement and he's putting himself in dangerous situations. I question his maturity and judgement, and his track record with NYG doesn't inspire confidence that he's grasping what needs to be done.
Got busted for drugs during the off-season when Coughlin was first hired. Coughlin was a tough coach, but he gave Tyree a clean slate considering they hadn’t even met yet. Tyree made the most of his second chance. The rest is history....
and the case falls apart, there were quite a few on here who were judge jury and executioner without having the facts....tsk tsk
Even if it turn out OK, Baker showed extremely poor judgement putting himself in a situation where he could be exploited. There's no way Baker comes out of this looking like a victim or looking good. Hey if he gets it together great, but he's on a super short leash I would hope.
RE: from the Dunbar story I posted on the other thread, it is entirely
possible that NEITHER Dunbar nor Baker were even there as claimed. From the article:
"The warrant stated that Dunbar and Baker lost $70,000 while gambling at a party two night's prior. That would provide motive for the alleged robbery. Grieco told NBC Sports Northwest on Monday evening that he can account for Dunbar's whereabouts on Monday evening, and for good measure, Sunday evening as well. That gives him an alibi. As Grieco put it, the gambling loss was a "fabricated motive" and "can be disproven, just like the robbery."
"He was not with them that night or any other night," Grieco said of Dunbar's whereabouts in the night's leading up to the night of the alleged robbery."
So it's entirely poosible that none of it ever happened as originally reported.
Is performance on the field. Granted players who break laws won’t get the chance to be on the field.
But players who sleep through meetings or skip meetings, all is forgiven if they can play, it s about winning.
I get some fans like rooting for good guys, you heard this all the time about Eli. I loved rooting for Eli, but mostly because of what he did on the field, him being a class act was a bonus
I also loved rooting for L. T. , maybe even more.
The worst thing about Baker is, he wasn’t very good last season, probably a bad attitude had a big part in that.
But if he learns to be a professional, becoming a force on the field in the process, all the other stuff will be forgotten and or forgiven.
It s just the way it is in the NFL. If you believe Giants are going to cut a player they moved up to draft in the first round after one season because he has had a bad attitude, you don t understand how the NFL works.
Baker will be cut if his talent doesn’t warrant the distractions he causes in the locker room, or off the field, not before.
If this situation gets put behind him, he ll get another chance to be the Giants starting quarterback.
Regardless of the outcome, he has not handled his job like a professional and has embarrassed the Giants organization. Some were overboard but at the same time, does he really seem like a fit for what Judge wants? I hope he can turn his life/career around but damage has been done. He will be on very thin ice. It sounds like he'll get a second chance but we'll see what he does with that. Most people learn from their mistakes but there are countless others who continue to make the same mistakes over and over again.
But, as Robbie mentioned, DB has been wasting his opportunity thus far even without the alleged robbery incident. There's a maturity gap that he's going to need to address even if he is exonerated in this case.
I would still have concerns about a kid who was skipping meetings and going to ill-advised parties during a stay-at-home public health advisory - his judgment seems suspect even if his rap sheet stays clean.
Regardless of the outcome, he has not handled his job like a professional and has embarrassed the Giants organization. Some were overboard but at the same time, does he really seem like a fit for what Judge wants? I hope he can turn his life/career around but damage has been done. He will be on very thin ice. It sounds like he'll get a second chance but we'll see what he does with that. Most people learn from their mistakes but there are countless others who continue to make the same mistakes over and over again.
In the end, it will come down to whether he can play the position. Now, I have been saying that I felt our scheme was half the problem as it relates to our secondary. We have a new DC now who other players in the league speak highly of. There will be no excuse for Baker anymore.... or anyone else in the secondary.
Quote:
and the case falls apart, there were quite a few on here who were judge jury and executioner without having the facts....tsk tsk
Regardless of the outcome, he has not handled his job like a professional and has embarrassed the Giants organization. Some were overboard but at the same time, does he really seem like a fit for what Judge wants? I hope he can turn his life/career around but damage has been done. He will be on very thin ice. It sounds like he'll get a second chance but we'll see what he does with that. Most people learn from their mistakes but there are countless others who continue to make the same mistakes over and over again.
Great point, still have to see how it turns out. But it seems like a young man that made a stupid mistake, maybe changes and goes on to have great success or becomes a perpetual screw-up. We will see.
I’m not saying he’s gonna sweep this under the rug, but there’s a man behind these charges and I’ll bet he’s more focused on who DeAndre Baker, the person and player is, rather than the media and legal noise out there about him.
"The warrant stated that Dunbar and Baker lost $70,000 while gambling at a party two night's prior. That would provide motive for the alleged robbery. Grieco told NBC Sports Northwest on Monday evening that he can account for Dunbar's whereabouts on Monday evening, and for good measure, Sunday evening as well. That gives him an alibi. As Grieco put it, the gambling loss was a "fabricated motive" and "can be disproven, just like the robbery."
"He was not with them that night or any other night," Grieco said of Dunbar's whereabouts in the night's leading up to the night of the alleged robbery."
So it's entirely poosible that none of it ever happened as originally reported.
Zeke actually did something, charges dropped or not. This Baker/Dunbar incident sounds like it may be a set up. Huge difference between the two.
Big if
Quote:
Didn't Zeke's charges get dropped? You can bet the NFL will do an exhaustive investigation into what went on here and he could very easily still get suspended for detrimental conduct.
Zeke actually did something, charges dropped or not. This Baker/Dunbar incident sounds like it may be a set up. Huge difference between the two.
Big if
Zeke got punished for habitually being in the news for dumb shit. This is a one off incident as of now.
"The warrant stated that Dunbar and Baker lost $70,000 while gambling at a party two night's prior. That would provide motive for the alleged robbery. Grieco told NBC Sports Northwest on Monday evening that he can account for Dunbar's whereabouts on Monday evening, and for good measure, Sunday evening as well. That gives him an alibi. As Grieco put it, the gambling loss was a "fabricated motive" and "can be disproven, just like the robbery."
"He was not with them that night or any other night," Grieco said of Dunbar's whereabouts in the night's leading up to the night of the alleged robbery."
So it's entirely poosible that none of it ever happened as originally reported.
I don’t think anyone is denying they were there Tuesday night
Quote:
and the case falls apart, there were quite a few on here who were judge jury and executioner without having the facts....tsk tsk
Regardless of the outcome, he has not handled his job like a professional and has embarrassed the Giants organization. Some were overboard but at the same time, does he really seem like a fit for what Judge wants? I hope he can turn his life/career around but damage has been done. He will be on very thin ice. It sounds like he'll get a second chance but we'll see what he does with that. Most people learn from their mistakes but there are countless others who continue to make the same mistakes over and over again.
Even if it turns out he did nothing? And that he wasn't even there? Ever? WHich would mean that he in effect, didn't make ANY mistake? I which case it would be back to maturing and getting/receiging better coaching.
Maybe you (and others here) should tone it down a little and wait for the facts before declaring such irreparable damage because right now it seems like this case is not going very far.
If he's lucky enough to quickly put the legal matter behind him -- he absolutely needs to get his shit in order as an employee of the team.
Imagine an alternate reality where the only headline last week was "Baker Skips Voluntary Meetings After Struggles Last Year."
That is enough to put him on high alert with Judge.
I agree, he has to show that he he's growing up and reliable, but too many here are frying the kid and the team for something that he may not even been involved in nor present for. Immature kid, yes, thug/crminal, doesn't look like that is going to hold up.
You wouldn't be able to trust him if it's found that he did nothing illegal?
Very rarely do guys overcome this stuff, but it is possible. Plax had incidents early in his career, and even though he likely didn't change much, he held it together enough.
If Baker takes anything out of this(assuming he gets cleared), he should realize that his career is one headline or bad situation away from being over.
Great question!! Can they go to an open state and rent dorms from a college and use their facilities???
Maturing? He needs a Giant course in growing up. I'd go GD one further by suggesting that if charges are dropped, it might make it harder for this kid to get straight, thinking he has gotten over, his way one more time.
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but will you honestly be able to trust this kid? He's got even more to prove now, and wasn't knocking it out of the park before. Hope he's ready for what appears to be a steep, self-inflicted uphill climb.
You wouldn't be able to trust him if it's found that he did nothing illegal?
It’s pretty clear that at a minimum he brought a gun to a high stakes illegal dice game.
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In comment 14906760 JonC said:
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but will you honestly be able to trust this kid? He's got even more to prove now, and wasn't knocking it out of the park before. Hope he's ready for what appears to be a steep, self-inflicted uphill climb.
You wouldn't be able to trust him if it's found that he did nothing illegal?
It’s pretty clear that at a minimum he brought a gun to a high stakes illegal dice game.
It isn't ever established that he was ever there. Now he likely was there and there's some truth to the story, but saying anything is "pretty clear" in a situation where the reports have differed drastically each day is ridiculous.
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In comment 14906760 JonC said:
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but will you honestly be able to trust this kid? He's got even more to prove now, and wasn't knocking it out of the park before. Hope he's ready for what appears to be a steep, self-inflicted uphill climb.
You wouldn't be able to trust him if it's found that he did nothing illegal?
It’s pretty clear that at a minimum he brought a gun to a high stakes illegal dice game.
Not illegal as he has a current Florida CWP, IIRC.
Brandishing it would be.
That in effect testifies to the fact that he was there and to a somewhat lesser extent, that he had a gun.
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In comment 14906769 Giants in 07 said:
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In comment 14906760 JonC said:
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but will you honestly be able to trust this kid? He's got even more to prove now, and wasn't knocking it out of the park before. Hope he's ready for what appears to be a steep, self-inflicted uphill climb.
You wouldn't be able to trust him if it's found that he did nothing illegal?
It’s pretty clear that at a minimum he brought a gun to a high stakes illegal dice game.
Not illegal as he has a current Florida CWP, IIRC.
Brandishing it would be.
Agreed, but the illegal dice game is illegal. And also explicitly against NFL policy.
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In comment 14906782 ron mexico said:
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In comment 14906769 Giants in 07 said:
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In comment 14906760 JonC said:
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but will you honestly be able to trust this kid? He's got even more to prove now, and wasn't knocking it out of the park before. Hope he's ready for what appears to be a steep, self-inflicted uphill climb.
You wouldn't be able to trust him if it's found that he did nothing illegal?
It’s pretty clear that at a minimum he brought a gun to a high stakes illegal dice game.
Not illegal as he has a current Florida CWP, IIRC.
Brandishing it would be.
Agreed, but the illegal dice game is illegal. And also explicitly against NFL policy.
Gambling on NFL games is against policy, not gambling in general.
They can play cards in a casino but not in a illegal game, for good reason.
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but will you honestly be able to trust this kid? He's got even more to prove now, and wasn't knocking it out of the park before. Hope he's ready for what appears to be a steep, self-inflicted uphill climb.
You wouldn't be able to trust him if it's found that he did nothing illegal?
It's not solely about illegality, the kid is walking into illegal gambling setups carrying a weapon. Even if properly registered, it shows a distinct lack of judgement and he's putting himself in dangerous situations. I question his maturity and judgement, and his track record with NYG doesn't inspire confidence that he's grasping what needs to be done.
They can play cards in a casino but not in a illegal game, for good reason.
You are correct. My error on illegal gambling.
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but will you honestly be able to trust this kid? He's got even more to prove now, and wasn't knocking it out of the park before. Hope he's ready for what appears to be a steep, self-inflicted uphill climb.
You wouldn't be able to trust him if it's found that he did nothing illegal?
Only if Daniel Tosh gives him a web redemption.
Seriously though, the trust issues (IMO) have as much to do with him skipping virtual OTAs after being an immature child last season as they do with any illegal activity. Baker has yet to show the maturity that it takes to succeed in the NFL.
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...And that he wasn't even there? Ever? WHich would mean that he in effect, didn't make ANY mistake? I which case it would be back to maturing and getting/receiging better coaching. you (and others here) should tone it down a little and wait for the facts before declaring such irreparable damage because right now it seems like this case is not going very far.
Never mind that the comment was in response to robbie, whose take on this (my take too) has focused on the pattern of tuning out/disrespecting teammates, coaches, and playbooks and not zapping him primarily for Miami CSI. Never mind that his play in 2019 was atrocious. Napping during workouts.
Maturing? He needs a Giant course in growing up. I'd go GD one further by suggesting that if charges are dropped, it might make it harder for this kid to get straight, thinking he has gotten over, his way one more time.
you fall into "and others here" :-)
1) no dispute in his lack of maturity 2) he was not atrocious on the field all year, he actually looked to be coming around down the stretch. And it was obivous to the whole world that he was being misused by an incompetent defensive staff, placing him in soft zone coverage when he was known to be an excellent press cover corner. 3) if in fact it is proven that he did not do any of what he was accused of, then what is he "getting over" on?? In that case he has been a victim of a smear which has adversely affected his career and future, and may have permanently damaged his reputation. "getting over" means he did it and got away with it, like Ray Lewis.
I am not referring to the underlying counts with which he was charged over the w/e.
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Others here seem to be close to saying a bit better coaching will clear up his issues:
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...And that he wasn't even there? Ever? WHich would mean that he in effect, didn't make ANY mistake? I which case it would be back to maturing and getting/receiging better coaching. you (and others here) should tone it down a little and wait for the facts before declaring such irreparable damage because right now it seems like this case is not going very far.
Never mind that the comment was in response to robbie, whose take on this (my take too) has focused on the pattern of tuning out/disrespecting teammates, coaches, and playbooks and not zapping him primarily for Miami CSI. Never mind that his play in 2019 was atrocious. Napping during workouts.
Maturing? He needs a Giant course in growing up. I'd go GD one further by suggesting that if charges are dropped, it might make it harder for this kid to get straight, thinking he has gotten over, his way one more time.
you fall into "and others here" :-)
1) no dispute in his lack of maturity 2) he was not atrocious on the field all year, he actually looked to be coming around down the stretch. And it was obivous to the whole world that he was being misused by an incompetent defensive staff, placing him in soft zone coverage when he was known to be an excellent press cover corner. 3) if in fact it is proven that he did not do any of what he was accused of, then what is he "getting over" on?? In that case he has been a victim of a smear which has adversely affected his career and future, and may have permanently damaged his reputation. "getting over" means he did it and got away with it, like Ray Lewis.
I'm genuinely asking this out of curiosity, but what makes this a smear campaign any more than Ray Lewis's situation? I think we generally all agree that Lewis did it and got away with it, but does anyone really know? He wasn't convicted, after all.
Isn't that precisely what some are asking of us as Giants fans right now? To let Baker's case play out in the legal system and to welcome him back if he isn't convicted or otherwise proven to have done it?
This is where it's important to remember the distinction between "innocent" and "not guilty." The burden of proof does not require Baker's attorney(s) to prove his innocence. And short of proving that he wasn't even there (which doesn't actually sound like it's in dispute in the way that I'm reading the updates, but I might be wrong), I don't know how any of us will ever know for sure that he didn't actually do it. Witnesses can recant their stories for a lot of reasons - not all of them rest squarely on honesty.
I'm not saying that Baker is anywhere near Ray Lewis, so please don't take this post that way. I'm just saying that if you're going to ask for Baker to get the benefit of the doubt based on the outcome of the legal proceedings, it feels a bit inconsistent to throw Ray Lewis out there.
Baker has a lot of growing up to do even if he didn't commit armed robbery. I don't know how this whole situation will end up impacting him and if it will help him to mature. But I know that no one framed him for sleeping in meetings and dogging his effort in practice and on the field. Those charges will stick until he dispels them himself, no matter what happens in the courtroom.
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In comment 14906776 ColHowPepper said:
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Others here seem to be close to saying a bit better coaching will clear up his issues:
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...And that he wasn't even there? Ever? WHich would mean that he in effect, didn't make ANY mistake? I which case it would be back to maturing and getting/receiging better coaching. you (and others here) should tone it down a little and wait for the facts before declaring such irreparable damage because right now it seems like this case is not going very far.
Never mind that the comment was in response to robbie, whose take on this (my take too) has focused on the pattern of tuning out/disrespecting teammates, coaches, and playbooks and not zapping him primarily for Miami CSI. Never mind that his play in 2019 was atrocious. Napping during workouts.
Maturing? He needs a Giant course in growing up. I'd go GD one further by suggesting that if charges are dropped, it might make it harder for this kid to get straight, thinking he has gotten over, his way one more time.
you fall into "and others here" :-)
1) no dispute in his lack of maturity 2) he was not atrocious on the field all year, he actually looked to be coming around down the stretch. And it was obivous to the whole world that he was being misused by an incompetent defensive staff, placing him in soft zone coverage when he was known to be an excellent press cover corner. 3) if in fact it is proven that he did not do any of what he was accused of, then what is he "getting over" on?? In that case he has been a victim of a smear which has adversely affected his career and future, and may have permanently damaged his reputation. "getting over" means he did it and got away with it, like Ray Lewis.
I'm genuinely asking this out of curiosity, but what makes this a smear campaign any more than Ray Lewis's situation? I think we generally all agree that Lewis did it and got away with it, but does anyone really know? He wasn't convicted, after all.
Isn't that precisely what some are asking of us as Giants fans right now? To let Baker's case play out in the legal system and to welcome him back if he isn't convicted or otherwise proven to have done it?
This is where it's important to remember the distinction between "innocent" and "not guilty." The burden of proof does not require Baker's attorney(s) to prove his innocence. And short of proving that he wasn't even there (which doesn't actually sound like it's in dispute in the way that I'm reading the updates, but I might be wrong), I don't know how any of us will ever know for sure that he didn't actually do it. Witnesses can recant their stories for a lot of reasons - not all of them rest squarely on honesty.
I'm not saying that Baker is anywhere near Ray Lewis, so please don't take this post that way. I'm just saying that if you're going to ask for Baker to get the benefit of the doubt based on the outcome of the legal proceedings, it feels a bit inconsistent to throw Ray Lewis out there.
Baker has a lot of growing up to do even if he didn't commit armed robbery. I don't know how this whole situation will end up impacting him and if it will help him to mature. But I know that no one framed him for sleeping in meetings and dogging his effort in practice and on the field. Those charges will stick until he dispels them himself, no matter what happens in the courtroom.
I'm not comparing Lewis to Baker. I'm using him as an example of "getting over" which I felt colhowpepper misused. And Lewis was so innocent he copped a plea as states witness in exchange for a suspended 1 yr sentence for obstruction, so clearly he was there and involved. And he paid $4 million to the victim's family to go away.
Inside tale of Ray Lewis’ parking-lot brawl homicide case - ( New Window )
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In comment 14906760 JonC said:
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but will you honestly be able to trust this kid? He's got even more to prove now, and wasn't knocking it out of the park before. Hope he's ready for what appears to be a steep, self-inflicted uphill climb.
You wouldn't be able to trust him if it's found that he did nothing illegal?
It's not solely about illegality, the kid is walking into illegal gambling setups carrying a weapon. Even if properly registered, it shows a distinct lack of judgement and he's putting himself in dangerous situations. I question his maturity and judgement, and his track record with NYG doesn't inspire confidence that he's grasping what needs to be done.
Well said.
Even if it turn out OK, Baker showed extremely poor judgement putting himself in a situation where he could be exploited. There's no way Baker comes out of this looking like a victim or looking good. Hey if he gets it together great, but he's on a super short leash I would hope.
"The warrant stated that Dunbar and Baker lost $70,000 while gambling at a party two night's prior. That would provide motive for the alleged robbery. Grieco told NBC Sports Northwest on Monday evening that he can account for Dunbar's whereabouts on Monday evening, and for good measure, Sunday evening as well. That gives him an alibi. As Grieco put it, the gambling loss was a "fabricated motive" and "can be disproven, just like the robbery."
"He was not with them that night or any other night," Grieco said of Dunbar's whereabouts in the night's leading up to the night of the alleged robbery."
So it's entirely poosible that none of it ever happened as originally reported.
Or it’s possible that witnesses were paid off.
But players who sleep through meetings or skip meetings, all is forgiven if they can play, it s about winning.
I get some fans like rooting for good guys, you heard this all the time about Eli. I loved rooting for Eli, but mostly because of what he did on the field, him being a class act was a bonus
I also loved rooting for L. T. , maybe even more.
The worst thing about Baker is, he wasn’t very good last season, probably a bad attitude had a big part in that.
But if he learns to be a professional, becoming a force on the field in the process, all the other stuff will be forgotten and or forgiven.
It s just the way it is in the NFL. If you believe Giants are going to cut a player they moved up to draft in the first round after one season because he has had a bad attitude, you don t understand how the NFL works.
Baker will be cut if his talent doesn’t warrant the distractions he causes in the locker room, or off the field, not before.
If this situation gets put behind him, he ll get another chance to be the Giants starting quarterback.
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and the case falls apart, there were quite a few on here who were judge jury and executioner without having the facts....tsk tsk
Just because the case falls apart does not mean it didn't happen. Or that is what everyone on here says about Ray Lewis.
Lewis' case didn't "fall apart". He copped a plea and testified for the prosecution in exchange for a suspended sentence for obstruction.