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My 9yo son asked me if I would trade Barkley for Chase Young

Essex : 5/20/2020 9:27 am
straight up. Typical silly question from a nine year old who is watching too much YouTube and NFL network during the COVID emergency while locked up in a NYC apartment. I immediately answered yes because Edge is so much more important than RB. But as I have been thinking about it all morning it has gotten me to wonder if with the position differential, we have already seen that Barkley can thrive in this league, is it smart to trade a less important position although established star (budding maybe superstar) for a more important position but potential superstar without knowing if he will be able to make it in this league. I still would do it, but was wondering what other people had thought (knowing obviously it will never happen).
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The answer is yes.  
LBH15 : 5/20/2020 12:15 pm : link
And it’s probably a yes even without consideration of contract timing, but that makes it a fairly easy yes.
Ask the Jet fans  
Carl in CT : 5/20/2020 12:25 pm : link
About an OSU pass rusher who had no moves other than quickness and power. Didn’t last too long in this league. Initials are VG if you can’t figure it out.
RE: Absolutely.  
djstat : 5/20/2020 12:27 pm : link
In comment 14907278 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
I love Barkley but if we're talking "gold jackets," you take the gold jacket ER over the RB any day of the week.

Shouldn't even be a question for the objective fan.
WOw Chase Young has a Gold Jacket and has not played a meaningful down of football in the NFL
RE: RE: RE: Yes  
aGiantGuy : 5/20/2020 12:28 pm : link
In comment 14907317 pjcas18 said:
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In comment 14907300 Bramton1 said:


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In comment 14907285 pjcas18 said:


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in part because Barkley has 2 years left before the 5th year option/getting paid and Young will be a rookie. I think Young's timeline aligns more with where the Giants are than Barkley.

Plus, I think RB's can be found much easier than a pass rusher and defensive playmaker.



Then why did we spend years trying to convince ourselves that Paul Perkins was the man?



A lot of reasons, but that same year that Perkins was "supposed to be" the man, Orleans Darkwa and Wayne Gallman combined for over 1200 yards rushing and averaged 4.4 ypc. and caught another 53 passes.

If you're trying to convince me that a RB is more valuable than a DE you won't.

We also had a #1 receiver that not only demanded constant double teams but forced teams into cover two, the absolute easiest coverage to run against. Context...
No Way I Make That Trade  
Trainmaster : 5/20/2020 12:35 pm : link
Barkley is an NFL proven superstar. Young is a highly touted college player who was almost invisible in his last 3 college games against top competition.
For me the answer is simply No.  
gmenrule-va : 5/20/2020 12:40 pm : link
Barkley has the ability to score every time he touches the ball. Even if Young becomes what he is projected to be, I still think Barkley is more of a game changer. You don't trade that away.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Yes  
pjcas18 : 5/20/2020 12:42 pm : link
In comment 14907514 aGiantGuy said:
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In comment 14907317 pjcas18 said:


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In comment 14907300 Bramton1 said:


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In comment 14907285 pjcas18 said:


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in part because Barkley has 2 years left before the 5th year option/getting paid and Young will be a rookie. I think Young's timeline aligns more with where the Giants are than Barkley.

Plus, I think RB's can be found much easier than a pass rusher and defensive playmaker.



Then why did we spend years trying to convince ourselves that Paul Perkins was the man?



A lot of reasons, but that same year that Perkins was "supposed to be" the man, Orleans Darkwa and Wayne Gallman combined for over 1200 yards rushing and averaged 4.4 ypc. and caught another 53 passes.

If you're trying to convince me that a RB is more valuable than a DE you won't.



We also had a #1 receiver that not only demanded constant double teams but forced teams into cover two, the absolute easiest coverage to run against. Context...


Fair, but with a mobile QB and a TE like Engram and WR's Tate, Shepard & Slayton (when they were all healthy) the Giants should have been able to exploit teams playing the run and looking to take Barkley out of the game plan. But the play calling has been awful.

My point is the drop off from Barkley to [fill in the blank] IMO is less than a great DE to what the Giants had last year.

and this was only have my reason why I'd make the trade. the other half, as I mentioned was contract. I think Young aligns better to where the Giants are from a competitive standpoint. After 2 seasons, Barkley will get paid (5th year option). Young you have 4 season. Of course Young can shit the bed, but it's a risk I'm willing to take.


Essex  
Lines of Scrimmage : 5/20/2020 12:49 pm : link
You have a smart kid. Have him give you more ideas for threads in the future.

I think a lot depends on the team around them but Barkley is a very rare talent and let's see what he does when we gave a good line which to me immediately makes the Giants a very dangerous offense even with limited receiver threats.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Yes  
aGiantGuy : 5/20/2020 12:55 pm : link
In comment 14907522 pjcas18 said:
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In comment 14907514 aGiantGuy said:


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In comment 14907317 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


In comment 14907300 Bramton1 said:


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In comment 14907285 pjcas18 said:


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in part because Barkley has 2 years left before the 5th year option/getting paid and Young will be a rookie. I think Young's timeline aligns more with where the Giants are than Barkley.

Plus, I think RB's can be found much easier than a pass rusher and defensive playmaker.



Then why did we spend years trying to convince ourselves that Paul Perkins was the man?



A lot of reasons, but that same year that Perkins was "supposed to be" the man, Orleans Darkwa and Wayne Gallman combined for over 1200 yards rushing and averaged 4.4 ypc. and caught another 53 passes.

If you're trying to convince me that a RB is more valuable than a DE you won't.



We also had a #1 receiver that not only demanded constant double teams but forced teams into cover two, the absolute easiest coverage to run against. Context...



Fair, but with a mobile QB and a TE like Engram and WR's Tate, Shepard & Slayton (when they were all healthy) the Giants should have been able to exploit teams playing the run and looking to take Barkley out of the game plan. But the play calling has been awful.

My point is the drop off from Barkley to [fill in the blank] IMO is less than a great DE to what the Giants had last year.

and this was only have my reason why I'd make the trade. the other half, as I mentioned was contract. I think Young aligns better to where the Giants are from a competitive standpoint. After 2 seasons, Barkley will get paid (5th year option). Young you have 4 season. Of course Young can shit the bed, but it's a risk I'm willing to take.


I mean we're splitting hairs at this point because if there was a top 5 prospect list in the last 5 years, Barkley and Young would be on it. But where it differs for me, is Barkley's leadership, and untapped receiving ability, I can't help but think Barkley has a slightly higher ceiling just because he's an offensive player.
my ohio State friends say Young is a one trick pony  
gtt350 : 5/20/2020 1:16 pm : link
you are not getting Bosa here
RE: my ohio State friends say Young is a one trick pony  
Brown Recluse : 5/20/2020 1:20 pm : link
In comment 14907546 gtt350 said:
Quote:
you are not getting Bosa here


Your Ohio State friend said it so it must be true I guess.

We all hope your friend is right.
3 friends not one so there was consensus  
gtt350 : 5/20/2020 1:25 pm : link
reading comp always helps
RE: RE: Similar question  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 5/20/2020 1:29 pm : link
In comment 14907505 Johnny5 said:
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In comment 14907344 jestersdead said:


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was posed during the draft about taking a QB at 4 and then forcing the Dolphins or Chargers to make a trade with you. 90% of BBI said no, b/c Jones has already shown you signs he can play in the league. So why would you trade for an edge college player who hasn't shown anything vs an all pro running back?

Chase Young could be the next Clowney. Is that what you want to trade your best player for?

That's a no for me


This is my thinking. We know what we have in Barkley. That would be what makes me hesitate. Bird in the hand kinda thing.

I don't think its even a coin toss a top 5 pick makes it to the probowl?
RE: 3 friends not one so there was consensus  
Brown Recluse : 5/20/2020 1:31 pm : link
In comment 14907552 gtt350 said:
Quote:
reading comp always helps


Oh wow, three friends? Well surely that changes things.
He  
PaulN : 5/20/2020 1:41 pm : link
Is not going to be a great player, I said it. I will trust what I see vs so many know nothings piling on good analysts that like, the combine is a bunch of crap, watch the fucking games, the combine is more tool used to justify picks that fail so people can save their jobs. There are very good analysts, but people on tv are not hired for football knowledge, not the people you see everyday that have timeslots.
...  
christian : 5/20/2020 1:42 pm : link
Chase Young's value is not about sack tallies. He's a plus pass rusher and a plus run/edge setter. He's also fluid, if not remarkable in pass coverage.

This doesn't mean he won't bust. He totally could. But he's not a one trick player. He's a great pass rusher, in addition to a good overall defender.

I fully expect Barkley to be extended after this year to a similar contract to Elliot. I expect Barkley to be a big time performer for 3-4 more years, with this year being the last "cheap" year.

If you were to start the clock right now, I'd pick the younger, cheaper player.
We haven't seen Barkley behind an offensive line that can give him  
Ira : 5/20/2020 1:43 pm : link
room to run. That includes his college career.
RE: RE: 3 friends not one so there was consensus  
gtt350 : 5/20/2020 1:56 pm : link
In comment 14907558 Brown Recluse said:
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In comment 14907552 gtt350 said:


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reading comp always helps
it's and opinion on a sports board asshole, was not meant as fact fool


Oh wow, three friends? Well surely that changes things.
No I wouldn't  
mdthedream : 5/20/2020 1:57 pm : link
we have no idea if Young is even going to be any good let alone a top player in the NFL.
Id take Young  
uther99 : 5/20/2020 2:13 pm : link
Barkley needs OL to perform to effect the game. A big if.

Young just needs to beat the RT or LT to effect the game
Nope  
trueblueinpw : 5/20/2020 2:42 pm : link
I don’t have full blown love for Young and he wasn’t touched by the hand of God.
It's a silly hypothetical,  
Default : 5/20/2020 2:53 pm : link
and as bad as the Redskins are, they would never make that trade.
We know what Barkley brings to the table without much of a  
TMS : 5/20/2020 3:09 pm : link
supporting cast on the field, or in the coaching staff. Hard to make that call now. We will see what he does with the Skins. Bad teams get high draft picks for a reason the rest off the team/ coaches suck usually.
RE: RE: RE: 3 friends not one so there was consensus  
Brown Recluse : 5/20/2020 3:25 pm : link
In comment 14907575 gtt350 said:
Quote:
In comment 14907558 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:


In comment 14907552 gtt350 said:


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reading comp always helps
it's and opinion on a sports board asshole, was not meant as fact fool


Oh wow, three friends? Well surely that changes things.



hahaha.
it's a great question - i'd probably say yes (same with Bosa too)  
Eric on Li : 5/20/2020 3:31 pm : link
the value of an elite pass rusher is too much to pass up even though he's still unproven.

Unfortunate we got the pick in the only year of the last 3 where there wasn't an elite pass rusher to pick. Although I guess we are also lucky we didn't have the pick 4 years ago where it could have resulted in Solomon Thomas.
Would you trade LT for Barry Sanders?  
kdog77 : 5/20/2020 3:57 pm : link
I know they were not exactly contemporaries, but they are both gold jacket players at same positions as Young and Barkley and if both reach their potential could have similar. Personally I would rather have the next LT than the next Barry Sanders. Elite QB and solid OL are more essential to good offense than having a bunch of great skill players, but if you have one really special defensive game-wrecker that can change the outcome of games and a season.
Wow, BBI has clear cut genetic illness of overvaluing “potential”  
plato : 5/20/2020 4:16 pm : link
compared to actual playing value.
You go with the younger, cheaper player  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/20/2020 4:45 pm : link
playing at a much more important position and a position the Giants have little to no talent in.

So, yes, absolutely, a billion times yes.
I wouldn't trade  
section125 : 5/20/2020 5:04 pm : link
Barkley for Young. Barkley has proven to be able to play at All Pro level with a bad offensive line. Young is a rookie who has proved nothing. He will not be LT. Not even sure he is one of the Bosa brothers.

We have all seen what happens if Barkley gets past the LOS. We have all seen what happens when Barkley gets into the secondary on a pass route.

FWIW, Young, I believe will be a good to very good ER. But it seemed to me he disappeared a bit in big games. It may have to do with double teams.
It's tough to say without seeing Young play a game  
Sonic Youth : 5/20/2020 5:16 pm : link
but if It was 2 weeks in and young's impact/capability is visible, then yes, in a heartbeat.

RBs are not worth that much. Young will have a far greater impact over the course of a decade in his career than Barkley.

This is barely even debatable.
I would  
Mr. Nickels : 5/20/2020 5:35 pm : link
have lost to Washington and had both
I am not going to flat out disagree with the people...  
EricJ : 5/20/2020 5:38 pm : link
who would choose Chase over Barkley. However, just keep in mind that Barkley is able to make lemonade out of lemons on an offense that otherwise would suck. We need to have a top 10 OL for an average RB to be successful.

This means, remove Barkley to add Chase but now you also need to add at least 3 better than average OLs somehow.
If Young turns out to have a Justin Tuck career,  
Default : 5/20/2020 5:50 pm : link
and Barkley turns out to have a Peterson, or Sanders career, who do you pick?
RE: I don't buy the argument about edge vs. RB  
D HOS : 5/20/2020 6:41 pm : link
In comment 14907489 Matt M. said:
Quote:
In Barkley, the Giants already have an established talent who is perhaps the most dynamic offensive player in the league. He is also more than a RB. For example hauling in over 90 catches his first season.


That's what I'm saying. And he's going to have, it appears, great coaching and he's going to be, it appears, used correctly and he's just entering his prime, and he's the face of the franchise, a locker room leader, important for the culture and buy-in to the program (yeah I know winning provides that) but he is a great talent, proving it on the field with 8 thousand other intangibles that we need.
RE: RE: RE: Absolutely.  
djm : 5/20/2020 7:21 pm : link
In comment 14907282 Brown Recluse said:
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In comment 14907280 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


In comment 14907278 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:


I love Barkley but if we're talking "gold jackets," you take the gold jacket ER over the RB any day of the week.

Shouldn't even be a question for the objective fan.



And Young has proven what beyond college?



I don't care. Barring injury...I think Young is going to be fantastic, even if he is a Redskin. As sure a thing if not more than Bosa last year. And I'd trade Barkley for Bosa without hesitation.


More than bosa? I love young but that’s tough. Let’s slow down...
RE: Id take Young  
UConn4523 : 5/20/2020 7:26 pm : link
In comment 14907588 uther99 said:
Quote:
Barkley needs OL to perform to effect the game. A big if.

Young just needs to beat the RT or LT to effect the game


He didn’t have an impact his rookie year nor the games he was healthy last year?

It’s fine if you value Young over Barkley but this isn’t accurate at all. Barkley has performed extremely well despite the bad OLine.
My first advice  
Pete in MD : 5/20/2020 7:33 pm : link
to my 8 year old son is don’t chase young...
Let me just say  
Carl in CT : 5/20/2020 7:38 pm : link
Barkley is a lot closer to BS. To put Young in LT’s category (or in the same sentence) is blasphemy. Just stop before you embarrass yourself.
Josh Allen had 10.5 sacks last year  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 5/20/2020 7:45 pm : link
Would you guys take Barkley over him? Would you take Chase Young over him without seeing Young play a snap vs. Allen getting double digit sacks as a rookie?

I think Chase Young is a beast. But I also hesitate to compare him to the Bosas just because they went to the same school. Young is a different type of athlete and player than the Bosas, so he isn't guaranteed to see the same type of success. As of this moment without having seen Chase Young play a snap, give me Barkley.

Barkley does seem to be more of an anomaly than Chase Young from a talent perspective though. As great as Young is, he's not necessarily the best EDGE rushing prospect of the past 4 years as Myles Garrett seemed to be considered a little better or atleast neck-and-neck with him. Whereas Barkley was considered an anomaly at the RB position and the most gifted RB prospect in ages.

Guys who are anomalies transcend traditional positional values because of the extra value they provide over even the 2nd best player in the league at the position.

Best EDGE > Best RB
5th best EDGE < Best RB
5th best EDGE > 5th best RB
10th best EDGE >>> 10th best RB
15th best EDGE >>>> 15th best RB

If Barkley is the best RB in the league while Young becomes "only" the 5th best edge rusher in the league, I'm taking Barkley. Just like I would've taken MVP Adrian Peterson and "30 TDs in a season" Tomlinson over whoever the 5th best Edge rusher in the league was those years, I might even take them over whoever was the best edge rusher in the league those years.
RE: It's tough to say without seeing Young play a game  
section125 : 5/20/2020 7:48 pm : link
In comment 14907690 Sonic Youth said:
Quote:
but if It was 2 weeks in and young's impact/capability is visible, then yes, in a heartbeat.

RBs are not worth that much. Young will have a far greater impact over the course of a decade in his career than Barkley.

This is barely even debatable.


Of course it is debatable. Young is a rookie. He has not done anything. Not even sure he had as good a college career as Barkley. Didn't Barkley lead the league in yards his rookie year(or was very close) with a POS offensive line?

Young may turnout to be the second coming of Derrick Thomas, but as of right now he has done nothing
Ask me again in two years.  
CT Charlie : 5/20/2020 8:38 pm : link
We've seen what Barkley can do when he has an opening, of which he seen woefully few. Young? Not a game in the NFL.
Depends  
Bill2 : 5/21/2020 9:39 am : link
do the Giants get a deep threat running back that pulls the safeties and linebackers back a step. ?

Do two TE create so much concern midfield that Barkely gets through the line of scrimmage easily.?

Do we get a tank of a power runner to barley catches 90 passes mismatched against the defense.?

We haven't used Barkley yet.

Is the key to 265 pound young to run straight at him with 320 pound,NFL guards and tackles.?

Teams beat all the great edge players ( including LT and all the great running backs)



Barkley for Tony Mandarich  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 5/21/2020 10:58 am : link
?
Absolutely  
Ned In Atlanta : 5/21/2020 12:48 pm : link
I’m a Barkley fan but it’s amazing how a lot of people here have already enshrined him in Canton.
RE: If Young turns out to have a Justin Tuck career,  
FStubbs : 5/21/2020 4:21 pm : link
In comment 14907705 Default said:
Quote:
and Barkley turns out to have a Peterson, or Sanders career, who do you pick?


Tuck has 2 more rings than either of those guys.
Barkley trade  
Bigislandfan : 5/21/2020 8:34 pm : link
Would you trade Barkley for Nick Bosa? He’s got as big a track record as good if not better than Barkley
RE: RE: If Young turns out to have a Justin Tuck career,  
Default : 5/21/2020 10:30 pm : link
In comment 14908346 FStubbs said:
Quote:
In comment 14907705 Default said:


Quote:


and Barkley turns out to have a Peterson, or Sanders career, who do you pick?



Tuck has 2 more rings than either of those guys.


Yup, because Tuck despite not being the best pass rusher in the league plays a position where he could disrupt the league’s MVP.
RE: RE: If Young turns out to have a Justin Tuck career,  
Default : 5/21/2020 10:30 pm : link
In comment 14908346 FStubbs said:
Quote:
In comment 14907705 Default said:


Quote:


and Barkley turns out to have a Peterson, or Sanders career, who do you pick?



Tuck has 2 more rings than either of those guys.


Yup, because Tuck despite not being the best pass rusher in the league plays a position where he could disrupt the league’s MVP.
RE: RE: If Young turns out to have a Justin Tuck career,  
Default : 5/21/2020 10:30 pm : link
In comment 14908346 FStubbs said:
Quote:
In comment 14907705 Default said:


Quote:


and Barkley turns out to have a Peterson, or Sanders career, who do you pick?



Tuck has 2 more rings than either of those guys.


Yup, because Tuck despite not being the best pass rusher in the league plays a position where he could disrupt the league’s MVP.
Think if we get Barkley an OL he will  
TMS : 5/30/2020 2:39 pm : link
be a perennial all pro behind it.
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