straight up. Typical silly question from a nine year old who is watching too much YouTube and NFL network during the COVID emergency while locked up in a NYC apartment. I immediately answered yes because Edge is so much more important than RB. But as I have been thinking about it all morning it has gotten me to wonder if with the position differential, we have already seen that Barkley can thrive in this league, is it smart to trade a less important position although established star (budding maybe superstar) for a more important position but potential superstar without knowing if he will be able to make it in this league. I still would do it, but was wondering what other people had thought (knowing obviously it will never happen).
Shouldn't even be a question for the objective fan.
Shouldn't even be a question for the objective fan.
And Young has proven what beyond college?
Shouldn't even be a question for the objective fan.
What if their careers are unknown? Barkley has shown how much of a force he can be in this league, although his entire career is still a question mark.obviously.
Young still has to show he belongs in this league and that he was worthy of such a high pick.
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I love Barkley but if we're talking "gold jackets," you take the gold jacket ER over the RB any day of the week.
Shouldn't even be a question for the objective fan.
And Young has proven what beyond college?
I don't care. Barring injury...I think Young is going to be fantastic, even if he is a Redskin. As sure a thing if not more than Bosa last year. And I'd trade Barkley for Bosa without hesitation.
Plus, I think RB's can be found much easier than a pass rusher and defensive playmaker.
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I love Barkley but if we're talking "gold jackets," you take the gold jacket ER over the RB any day of the week.
Shouldn't even be a question for the objective fan.
What if their careers are unknown? Barkley has shown how much of a force he can be in this league, although his entire career is still a question mark.obviously.
Young still has to show he belongs in this league and that he was worthy of such a high pick.
Thats entirely fair. I should probably retract the last sentence from my post. I would do it in a heartbeat though.
Shouldn't even be a question for the objective fan.
We are handing out gold jackets already?
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In comment 14907278 Brown Recluse said:
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I love Barkley but if we're talking "gold jackets," you take the gold jacket ER over the RB any day of the week.
Shouldn't even be a question for the objective fan.
What if their careers are unknown? Barkley has shown how much of a force he can be in this league, although his entire career is still a question mark.obviously.
Young still has to show he belongs in this league and that he was worthy of such a high pick.
Thats entirely fair. I should probably retract the last sentence from my post. I would do it in a heartbeat though.
I see your point and understand your thinking. ✌
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I love Barkley but if we're talking "gold jackets," you take the gold jacket ER over the RB any day of the week.
Shouldn't even be a question for the objective fan.
We are handing out gold jackets already?
I'm speaking on level of talent, obviously. Didn't think that required an explanation.
Barkley is a HoF talent. He's at the top of the league. I think Young will be as well. All things being equal, I'll take the ER over the RB.
Thats my point.
it's a common internet trope to illustrate a point or scenario you want to discuss. Not accusing you of this, lol, I believe your 9 year old could have asked this. just saying.
same thing. any age of the child (within reason) asking a question. same radar goes off. I'm sure it's me and sorry to clutter the thread with it.
Plus, I think RB's can be found much easier than a pass rusher and defensive playmaker.
Then why did we spend years trying to convince ourselves that Paul Perkins was the man?
Hitchhiker: 7's the key number here. Think about it. 7-Elevens. 7 dwarves. 7, man, that's the number. 7 chipmunks twirlin' on a branch, eatin' lots of sunflowers on my uncle's ranch. You know that old children's tale from the sea. It's like you're dreamin' about Gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly Brie time, baby. Step into my office.
Ted: Why?
Hitchhiker: 'Cause you're fuckin' fired!
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In comment 14907278 Brown Recluse said:
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I love Barkley but if we're talking "gold jackets," you take the gold jacket ER over the RB any day of the week.
Shouldn't even be a question for the objective fan.
We are handing out gold jackets already?
I'm speaking on level of talent, obviously. Didn't think that required an explanation.
Barkley is a HoF talent. He's at the top of the league. I think Young will be as well. All things being equal, I'll take the ER over the RB.
Thats my point.
If you can assure me that he’s going to be an Aaron Donald/JJ Watt talent-wise, I would certainly give it tremendous consideration to it. If healthy, even a virtually one-legged SB showed he’s headed for the jacket. Lots of “sure-bets” at all positions, tanked once turning pro..
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in part because Barkley has 2 years left before the 5th year option/getting paid and Young will be a rookie. I think Young's timeline aligns more with where the Giants are than Barkley.
Plus, I think RB's can be found much easier than a pass rusher and defensive playmaker.
Then why did we spend years trying to convince ourselves that Paul Perkins was the man?
A lot of reasons, but that same year that Perkins was "supposed to be" the man, Orleans Darkwa and Wayne Gallman combined for over 1200 yards rushing and averaged 4.4 ypc. and caught another 53 passes.
If you're trying to convince me that a RB is more valuable than a DE you won't.
by the conventional wisdom, Young is the better choice
this one is going to be debated for years
Plus, I think RB's can be found much easier than a pass rusher and defensive playmaker.
Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding...
Chase Young could be the next Clowney. Is that what you want to trade your best player for?
That's a no for me
I personally would take an NFL unproven Young over Saquon right now.
The fetus on the sonogram held up a note during the procedure asking about Barkley vs Young...
Barkley all day.
I personally would take an NFL unproven Young over Saquon right now.
Are you serious?
Look back at Clinton Portis for Champ Bailey. Do you think the Redskins would do that trade again?
The deal seemed pretty even for the first 4 or so years. Portis went over 1000 yards in 4 of his first 5 seasons with the Redskins. But after he rushed for nearly 1500 yards in 2008 at age 27, he fell off a cliff and was out of the league before age 30.
Bailey played at a Pro Bowl level well into his 30s and played 10 years in Denver and went to the Hall of Fame.
Would you prefer Marshal Falk or Eli? I agree with the OP s pt. For many reasons, there is some validity to the argument against drafting a RB with the second pick in the draft.
Of course it turned out well for the Giants because they got Jones. But there was no guarantee about getting a quarterback in the next draft at that time.
Plus, I think RB's can be found much easier than a pass rusher and defensive playmaker.
Agreed. The only hesitation is that Barkley has proven he can do it at this level, and Young has not, but a great ER >>>> a great RB.
Shouldn't even be a question for the objective fan.
No one knows if Young will be a gold jacket recipient as he has yet to play a down in the NFL. Barkley is a proven pro bowl talent, one of the best offensive weapons in the game and a top 5 RB. I wouldn’t do it
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I love Barkley but if we're talking "gold jackets," you take the gold jacket ER over the RB any day of the week.
Shouldn't even be a question for the objective fan.
And Young has proven what beyond college?
I watched the last few games that Ohio State played from start to finish,scouting Young when I thought he would be a Giant.Now I know that many times he was double-teamed but he really was a non-factor in those games. I wasn't as upset as many when we picked 4th instead of 2nd. I know he is a tremendous athlete & scouts rave about him,but I didn't see a dominant player when I watched him those last few games against better teams!
In comment 14907280 Big Blue '56 said:
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I love Barkley but if we're talking "gold jackets," you take the gold jacket ER over the RB any day of the week.
Shouldn't even be a question for the objective fan.
And Young has proven what beyond college?
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In comment 14907278 Brown Recluse said:
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I love Barkley but if we're talking "gold jackets," you take the gold jacket ER over the RB any day of the week.
Shouldn't even be a question for the objective fan.
And Young has proven what beyond college?
I don't care. Barring injury...I think Young is going to be fantastic, even if he is a Redskin. As sure a thing if not more than Bosa last year. And I'd trade Barkley for Bosa without hesitation.
Maybe but if I am an O-line coach I am talking to Robbie Caldwell and asking him about his game plan that essentially shut Young down and made him look very average.
I personally would take an NFL unproven Young over Saquon right now.
3/4 Giants SB victories were won with really good OLs, with the notable exception of 2011 when Eli put on his Achilles' suit and carried the team to a victory over the 49ers that the Giants had no business winning.
Thank goodness for Alex Smith's 0 for 13 on third down conversions via the pass.
As good as Barkley has been it's been behind a sub par OL as noted above.
And I begin to have a radical idea about NFL prospects entering the league, that we have it all wrong...
As an adide, it bugs me that Young didn't join in the underwear Olympics and perform various tests, especially the agility and explosion ones.
Barkley had phenomenal game tape too, but then went out and aced the underwear Olympics at the combine, too. There's a huge character and desire picture that Barkley is well into painting (not finished as his pass blocking needs radical improvement) and Young has yet to lift the paintbrush to the canvas as a pro, however well he was regarded in Columbus.
So my answer is no, although I too believe Young will be a fantastic pro.
Difference being between BELIEF and KNOWLEDGE. We know Barkley is and will be awesome, especially if our OL comes together by 2022.
What injury? After his suspension he wasn’t the same player, he essentially got locked up the last few games of the year. Don’t remember anything about an injury
it's a common internet trope to illustrate a point or scenario you want to discuss. Not accusing you of this, lol, I believe your 9 year old could have asked this. just saying.
I get it but he really did, I am not saying my posts are ever really worth reading, but I have been on here for over 8 years and I don't normally bring up implausible scenarios trade topics such as this one. I mean this would never happen, but I was just wondering what people thought because when he asked me this morning, it seemed like a no-brainer to me at first, but then it really got me thinking about the gamble of not knowing Chase at the next level versus a different position but we know the SB is going to be good (just how good is the only real debate).
I guess you have to weigh how much better you think the Giants defense would get adding Young vs how much worse the Giants offense would get subtracting Barkley
I think I would keep Barkley. I think it's a little bit more difficult to completely phase out Barkley in a defensive gameplan than it would be for an offensive gameplan to negate Young
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Every Giants SB was won with elite edge rushers and good (but not generational) RBs.
I personally would take an NFL unproven Young over Saquon right now.
Are you serious?
Totally serious. Both our trenches are horrid, so our generational back has been useless. He is no doubt a great RB, but he can't do it with a shitty O line.
I grew up watching strong Giants D, and our pathetic D's have made games painful to watch.
I give two shits about Chase Young as a specific player (I don't watch college FB). But I had wish we restarted rebuilding our D and O Line sooner, rather then picking a luxury RB such as Saquon. Its easy to say in hindsight because Gettleman was not rebuilding when he picked Saquon, and was trying to get Eli another shot.
How exactly has that been the case? They are 9-23 with him and he's had an injury issue. As of right now, his impact to the franchise is very much up in the air.
What struck me in that game was that whenever he was in pursuit behind the play he never got there. I thought he was the third best defender on the field that day. (Okaduh was the best).
Young hasn't played a down in the NFL yet. The guy could just as easily be a bust as a Barkley type player. In fact odds are he will be average or slightly above.
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In comment 14907280 Big Blue '56 said:
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In comment 14907278 Brown Recluse said:
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I love Barkley but if we're talking "gold jackets," you take the gold jacket ER over the RB any day of the week.
Shouldn't even be a question for the objective fan.
And Young has proven what beyond college?
I don't care. Barring injury...I think Young is going to be fantastic, even if he is a Redskin. As sure a thing if not more than Bosa last year. And I'd trade Barkley for Bosa without hesitation.
Maybe but if I am an O-line coach I am talking to Robbie Caldwell and asking him about his game plan that essentially shut Young down and made him look very average.
I'm not sure what your point is exactly. That because Young was shut down once, that means he won't be great?
Barkley had 13 carries for 1 yard against the Jets last year. Does that mean he isn't great too? I've seen Michael Strahan get neutralized plenty of times. Does that mean he wasn't great?
Weird response.
Young may or may not be a great player. He has yet to even practice as a pro, so there is still a lot to be learned from him. I wouldn't trade one of the top 5 players in the entire league for anyone right now.
Secondly, while it's technically true that Barkley is indeed a RB, he's more than any other traditional RB in the league in terms of impact. I don't think you can safely say that the impact an elite edge is greater than the impact of specifically Saquon Barkley. Saquon has the ability to completely change a game in a couple of plays. You can certainly perhaps say the same thing about an elite edge, but Saquon puts points on the scoreboard, where ERs typically do not. I will always give the advantage to a player that is directly responsible for points.
It is well within a reasonable expectation that Saquon will score 20 touchdowns or more this season. I say this because in his fully healthy rookie year, he had 15, and we've seen other RBs who are on the elite of the elite tier at the position accomplish this, such as LaDainian Tomlinson, who had 31 touchdowns in a season. I believe Saquon is at least as good as LDT, and his role in this offense to be similar. If you give Saquon 23 touches per game or more, and he puts in a full, healthy season, he's going to get there, and he'll probably give you somewhere around 25 TDs and well over 2000 yards of offense.
That to me is worth well more than any edge player currently playing in the NFL today.
Chase Young could be the next Clowney. Is that what you want to trade your best player for?
That's a no for me
This is my thinking. We know what we have in Barkley. That would be what makes me hesitate. Bird in the hand kinda thing.
Shouldn't even be a question for the objective fan.
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In comment 14907285 pjcas18 said:
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in part because Barkley has 2 years left before the 5th year option/getting paid and Young will be a rookie. I think Young's timeline aligns more with where the Giants are than Barkley.
Plus, I think RB's can be found much easier than a pass rusher and defensive playmaker.
Then why did we spend years trying to convince ourselves that Paul Perkins was the man?
A lot of reasons, but that same year that Perkins was "supposed to be" the man, Orleans Darkwa and Wayne Gallman combined for over 1200 yards rushing and averaged 4.4 ypc. and caught another 53 passes.
If you're trying to convince me that a RB is more valuable than a DE you won't.
We also had a #1 receiver that not only demanded constant double teams but forced teams into cover two, the absolute easiest coverage to run against. Context...
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In comment 14907300 Bramton1 said:
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In comment 14907285 pjcas18 said:
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in part because Barkley has 2 years left before the 5th year option/getting paid and Young will be a rookie. I think Young's timeline aligns more with where the Giants are than Barkley.
Plus, I think RB's can be found much easier than a pass rusher and defensive playmaker.
Then why did we spend years trying to convince ourselves that Paul Perkins was the man?
A lot of reasons, but that same year that Perkins was "supposed to be" the man, Orleans Darkwa and Wayne Gallman combined for over 1200 yards rushing and averaged 4.4 ypc. and caught another 53 passes.
If you're trying to convince me that a RB is more valuable than a DE you won't.
We also had a #1 receiver that not only demanded constant double teams but forced teams into cover two, the absolute easiest coverage to run against. Context...
Fair, but with a mobile QB and a TE like Engram and WR's Tate, Shepard & Slayton (when they were all healthy) the Giants should have been able to exploit teams playing the run and looking to take Barkley out of the game plan. But the play calling has been awful.
My point is the drop off from Barkley to [fill in the blank] IMO is less than a great DE to what the Giants had last year.
and this was only have my reason why I'd make the trade. the other half, as I mentioned was contract. I think Young aligns better to where the Giants are from a competitive standpoint. After 2 seasons, Barkley will get paid (5th year option). Young you have 4 season. Of course Young can shit the bed, but it's a risk I'm willing to take.
I think a lot depends on the team around them but Barkley is a very rare talent and let's see what he does when we gave a good line which to me immediately makes the Giants a very dangerous offense even with limited receiver threats.
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In comment 14907317 pjcas18 said:
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In comment 14907300 Bramton1 said:
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In comment 14907285 pjcas18 said:
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in part because Barkley has 2 years left before the 5th year option/getting paid and Young will be a rookie. I think Young's timeline aligns more with where the Giants are than Barkley.
Plus, I think RB's can be found much easier than a pass rusher and defensive playmaker.
Then why did we spend years trying to convince ourselves that Paul Perkins was the man?
A lot of reasons, but that same year that Perkins was "supposed to be" the man, Orleans Darkwa and Wayne Gallman combined for over 1200 yards rushing and averaged 4.4 ypc. and caught another 53 passes.
If you're trying to convince me that a RB is more valuable than a DE you won't.
We also had a #1 receiver that not only demanded constant double teams but forced teams into cover two, the absolute easiest coverage to run against. Context...
Fair, but with a mobile QB and a TE like Engram and WR's Tate, Shepard & Slayton (when they were all healthy) the Giants should have been able to exploit teams playing the run and looking to take Barkley out of the game plan. But the play calling has been awful.
My point is the drop off from Barkley to [fill in the blank] IMO is less than a great DE to what the Giants had last year.
and this was only have my reason why I'd make the trade. the other half, as I mentioned was contract. I think Young aligns better to where the Giants are from a competitive standpoint. After 2 seasons, Barkley will get paid (5th year option). Young you have 4 season. Of course Young can shit the bed, but it's a risk I'm willing to take.
I mean we're splitting hairs at this point because if there was a top 5 prospect list in the last 5 years, Barkley and Young would be on it. But where it differs for me, is Barkley's leadership, and untapped receiving ability, I can't help but think Barkley has a slightly higher ceiling just because he's an offensive player.
Your Ohio State friend said it so it must be true I guess.
We all hope your friend is right.
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was posed during the draft about taking a QB at 4 and then forcing the Dolphins or Chargers to make a trade with you. 90% of BBI said no, b/c Jones has already shown you signs he can play in the league. So why would you trade for an edge college player who hasn't shown anything vs an all pro running back?
Chase Young could be the next Clowney. Is that what you want to trade your best player for?
That's a no for me
This is my thinking. We know what we have in Barkley. That would be what makes me hesitate. Bird in the hand kinda thing.
I don't think its even a coin toss a top 5 pick makes it to the probowl?
Oh wow, three friends? Well surely that changes things.
This doesn't mean he won't bust. He totally could. But he's not a one trick player. He's a great pass rusher, in addition to a good overall defender.
I fully expect Barkley to be extended after this year to a similar contract to Elliot. I expect Barkley to be a big time performer for 3-4 more years, with this year being the last "cheap" year.
If you were to start the clock right now, I'd pick the younger, cheaper player.
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reading comp always helps
it's and opinion on a sports board asshole, was not meant as fact fool
Oh wow, three friends? Well surely that changes things.
Young just needs to beat the RT or LT to effect the game
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In comment 14907552 gtt350 said:
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reading comp always helps
it's and opinion on a sports board asshole, was not meant as fact fool
Oh wow, three friends? Well surely that changes things.
hahaha.
Unfortunate we got the pick in the only year of the last 3 where there wasn't an elite pass rusher to pick. Although I guess we are also lucky we didn't have the pick 4 years ago where it could have resulted in Solomon Thomas.
So, yes, absolutely, a billion times yes.
We have all seen what happens if Barkley gets past the LOS. We have all seen what happens when Barkley gets into the secondary on a pass route.
FWIW, Young, I believe will be a good to very good ER. But it seemed to me he disappeared a bit in big games. It may have to do with double teams.
RBs are not worth that much. Young will have a far greater impact over the course of a decade in his career than Barkley.
This is barely even debatable.
This means, remove Barkley to add Chase but now you also need to add at least 3 better than average OLs somehow.
That's what I'm saying. And he's going to have, it appears, great coaching and he's going to be, it appears, used correctly and he's just entering his prime, and he's the face of the franchise, a locker room leader, important for the culture and buy-in to the program (yeah I know winning provides that) but he is a great talent, proving it on the field with 8 thousand other intangibles that we need.
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In comment 14907278 Brown Recluse said:
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I love Barkley but if we're talking "gold jackets," you take the gold jacket ER over the RB any day of the week.
Shouldn't even be a question for the objective fan.
And Young has proven what beyond college?
I don't care. Barring injury...I think Young is going to be fantastic, even if he is a Redskin. As sure a thing if not more than Bosa last year. And I'd trade Barkley for Bosa without hesitation.
More than bosa? I love young but that’s tough. Let’s slow down...
Young just needs to beat the RT or LT to effect the game
He didn’t have an impact his rookie year nor the games he was healthy last year?
It’s fine if you value Young over Barkley but this isn’t accurate at all. Barkley has performed extremely well despite the bad OLine.
I think Chase Young is a beast. But I also hesitate to compare him to the Bosas just because they went to the same school. Young is a different type of athlete and player than the Bosas, so he isn't guaranteed to see the same type of success. As of this moment without having seen Chase Young play a snap, give me Barkley.
Barkley does seem to be more of an anomaly than Chase Young from a talent perspective though. As great as Young is, he's not necessarily the best EDGE rushing prospect of the past 4 years as Myles Garrett seemed to be considered a little better or atleast neck-and-neck with him. Whereas Barkley was considered an anomaly at the RB position and the most gifted RB prospect in ages.
Guys who are anomalies transcend traditional positional values because of the extra value they provide over even the 2nd best player in the league at the position.
Best EDGE > Best RB
5th best EDGE < Best RB
5th best EDGE > 5th best RB
10th best EDGE >>> 10th best RB
15th best EDGE >>>> 15th best RB
If Barkley is the best RB in the league while Young becomes "only" the 5th best edge rusher in the league, I'm taking Barkley. Just like I would've taken MVP Adrian Peterson and "30 TDs in a season" Tomlinson over whoever the 5th best Edge rusher in the league was those years, I might even take them over whoever was the best edge rusher in the league those years.
RBs are not worth that much. Young will have a far greater impact over the course of a decade in his career than Barkley.
This is barely even debatable.
Of course it is debatable. Young is a rookie. He has not done anything. Not even sure he had as good a college career as Barkley. Didn't Barkley lead the league in yards his rookie year(or was very close) with a POS offensive line?
Young may turnout to be the second coming of Derrick Thomas, but as of right now he has done nothing
Do two TE create so much concern midfield that Barkely gets through the line of scrimmage easily.?
Do we get a tank of a power runner to barley catches 90 passes mismatched against the defense.?
We haven't used Barkley yet.
Is the key to 265 pound young to run straight at him with 320 pound,NFL guards and tackles.?
Teams beat all the great edge players ( including LT and all the great running backs)
Tuck has 2 more rings than either of those guys.
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and Barkley turns out to have a Peterson, or Sanders career, who do you pick?
Tuck has 2 more rings than either of those guys.
Yup, because Tuck despite not being the best pass rusher in the league plays a position where he could disrupt the league’s MVP.
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and Barkley turns out to have a Peterson, or Sanders career, who do you pick?
Tuck has 2 more rings than either of those guys.
Yup, because Tuck despite not being the best pass rusher in the league plays a position where he could disrupt the league’s MVP.
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and Barkley turns out to have a Peterson, or Sanders career, who do you pick?
Tuck has 2 more rings than either of those guys.
Yup, because Tuck despite not being the best pass rusher in the league plays a position where he could disrupt the league’s MVP.