straight up. Typical silly question from a nine year old who is watching too much YouTube and NFL network during the COVID emergency while locked up in a NYC apartment. I immediately answered yes because Edge is so much more important than RB. But as I have been thinking about it all morning it has gotten me to wonder if with the position differential, we have already seen that Barkley can thrive in this league, is it smart to trade a less important position although established star (budding maybe superstar) for a more important position but potential superstar without knowing if he will be able to make it in this league. I still would do it, but was wondering what other people had thought (knowing obviously it will never happen).
Young hasn't played a down in the NFL yet. The guy could just as easily be a bust as a Barkley type player. In fact odds are he will be average or slightly above.
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In comment 14907280 Big Blue '56 said:
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In comment 14907278 Brown Recluse said:
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I love Barkley but if we're talking "gold jackets," you take the gold jacket ER over the RB any day of the week.
Shouldn't even be a question for the objective fan.
And Young has proven what beyond college?
I don't care. Barring injury...I think Young is going to be fantastic, even if he is a Redskin. As sure a thing if not more than Bosa last year. And I'd trade Barkley for Bosa without hesitation.
Maybe but if I am an O-line coach I am talking to Robbie Caldwell and asking him about his game plan that essentially shut Young down and made him look very average.
I'm not sure what your point is exactly. That because Young was shut down once, that means he won't be great?
Barkley had 13 carries for 1 yard against the Jets last year. Does that mean he isn't great too? I've seen Michael Strahan get neutralized plenty of times. Does that mean he wasn't great?
Weird response.
Young may or may not be a great player. He has yet to even practice as a pro, so there is still a lot to be learned from him. I wouldn't trade one of the top 5 players in the entire league for anyone right now.
Secondly, while it's technically true that Barkley is indeed a RB, he's more than any other traditional RB in the league in terms of impact. I don't think you can safely say that the impact an elite edge is greater than the impact of specifically Saquon Barkley. Saquon has the ability to completely change a game in a couple of plays. You can certainly perhaps say the same thing about an elite edge, but Saquon puts points on the scoreboard, where ERs typically do not. I will always give the advantage to a player that is directly responsible for points.
It is well within a reasonable expectation that Saquon will score 20 touchdowns or more this season. I say this because in his fully healthy rookie year, he had 15, and we've seen other RBs who are on the elite of the elite tier at the position accomplish this, such as LaDainian Tomlinson, who had 31 touchdowns in a season. I believe Saquon is at least as good as LDT, and his role in this offense to be similar. If you give Saquon 23 touches per game or more, and he puts in a full, healthy season, he's going to get there, and he'll probably give you somewhere around 25 TDs and well over 2000 yards of offense.
That to me is worth well more than any edge player currently playing in the NFL today.
Chase Young could be the next Clowney. Is that what you want to trade your best player for?
That's a no for me
This is my thinking. We know what we have in Barkley. That would be what makes me hesitate. Bird in the hand kinda thing.
Shouldn't even be a question for the objective fan.
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In comment 14907285 pjcas18 said:
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in part because Barkley has 2 years left before the 5th year option/getting paid and Young will be a rookie. I think Young's timeline aligns more with where the Giants are than Barkley.
Plus, I think RB's can be found much easier than a pass rusher and defensive playmaker.
Then why did we spend years trying to convince ourselves that Paul Perkins was the man?
A lot of reasons, but that same year that Perkins was "supposed to be" the man, Orleans Darkwa and Wayne Gallman combined for over 1200 yards rushing and averaged 4.4 ypc. and caught another 53 passes.
If you're trying to convince me that a RB is more valuable than a DE you won't.
We also had a #1 receiver that not only demanded constant double teams but forced teams into cover two, the absolute easiest coverage to run against. Context...
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In comment 14907300 Bramton1 said:
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In comment 14907285 pjcas18 said:
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in part because Barkley has 2 years left before the 5th year option/getting paid and Young will be a rookie. I think Young's timeline aligns more with where the Giants are than Barkley.
Plus, I think RB's can be found much easier than a pass rusher and defensive playmaker.
Then why did we spend years trying to convince ourselves that Paul Perkins was the man?
A lot of reasons, but that same year that Perkins was "supposed to be" the man, Orleans Darkwa and Wayne Gallman combined for over 1200 yards rushing and averaged 4.4 ypc. and caught another 53 passes.
If you're trying to convince me that a RB is more valuable than a DE you won't.
We also had a #1 receiver that not only demanded constant double teams but forced teams into cover two, the absolute easiest coverage to run against. Context...
Fair, but with a mobile QB and a TE like Engram and WR's Tate, Shepard & Slayton (when they were all healthy) the Giants should have been able to exploit teams playing the run and looking to take Barkley out of the game plan. But the play calling has been awful.
My point is the drop off from Barkley to [fill in the blank] IMO is less than a great DE to what the Giants had last year.
and this was only have my reason why I'd make the trade. the other half, as I mentioned was contract. I think Young aligns better to where the Giants are from a competitive standpoint. After 2 seasons, Barkley will get paid (5th year option). Young you have 4 season. Of course Young can shit the bed, but it's a risk I'm willing to take.
I think a lot depends on the team around them but Barkley is a very rare talent and let's see what he does when we gave a good line which to me immediately makes the Giants a very dangerous offense even with limited receiver threats.
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In comment 14907317 pjcas18 said:
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In comment 14907300 Bramton1 said:
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In comment 14907285 pjcas18 said:
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in part because Barkley has 2 years left before the 5th year option/getting paid and Young will be a rookie. I think Young's timeline aligns more with where the Giants are than Barkley.
Plus, I think RB's can be found much easier than a pass rusher and defensive playmaker.
Then why did we spend years trying to convince ourselves that Paul Perkins was the man?
A lot of reasons, but that same year that Perkins was "supposed to be" the man, Orleans Darkwa and Wayne Gallman combined for over 1200 yards rushing and averaged 4.4 ypc. and caught another 53 passes.
If you're trying to convince me that a RB is more valuable than a DE you won't.
We also had a #1 receiver that not only demanded constant double teams but forced teams into cover two, the absolute easiest coverage to run against. Context...
Fair, but with a mobile QB and a TE like Engram and WR's Tate, Shepard & Slayton (when they were all healthy) the Giants should have been able to exploit teams playing the run and looking to take Barkley out of the game plan. But the play calling has been awful.
My point is the drop off from Barkley to [fill in the blank] IMO is less than a great DE to what the Giants had last year.
and this was only have my reason why I'd make the trade. the other half, as I mentioned was contract. I think Young aligns better to where the Giants are from a competitive standpoint. After 2 seasons, Barkley will get paid (5th year option). Young you have 4 season. Of course Young can shit the bed, but it's a risk I'm willing to take.
I mean we're splitting hairs at this point because if there was a top 5 prospect list in the last 5 years, Barkley and Young would be on it. But where it differs for me, is Barkley's leadership, and untapped receiving ability, I can't help but think Barkley has a slightly higher ceiling just because he's an offensive player.
Your Ohio State friend said it so it must be true I guess.
We all hope your friend is right.
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was posed during the draft about taking a QB at 4 and then forcing the Dolphins or Chargers to make a trade with you. 90% of BBI said no, b/c Jones has already shown you signs he can play in the league. So why would you trade for an edge college player who hasn't shown anything vs an all pro running back?
Chase Young could be the next Clowney. Is that what you want to trade your best player for?
That's a no for me
This is my thinking. We know what we have in Barkley. That would be what makes me hesitate. Bird in the hand kinda thing.
I don't think its even a coin toss a top 5 pick makes it to the probowl?
Oh wow, three friends? Well surely that changes things.
This doesn't mean he won't bust. He totally could. But he's not a one trick player. He's a great pass rusher, in addition to a good overall defender.
I fully expect Barkley to be extended after this year to a similar contract to Elliot. I expect Barkley to be a big time performer for 3-4 more years, with this year being the last "cheap" year.
If you were to start the clock right now, I'd pick the younger, cheaper player.
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reading comp always helps
it's and opinion on a sports board asshole, was not meant as fact fool
Oh wow, three friends? Well surely that changes things.
Young just needs to beat the RT or LT to effect the game
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In comment 14907552 gtt350 said:
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reading comp always helps
it's and opinion on a sports board asshole, was not meant as fact fool
Oh wow, three friends? Well surely that changes things.
hahaha.
Unfortunate we got the pick in the only year of the last 3 where there wasn't an elite pass rusher to pick. Although I guess we are also lucky we didn't have the pick 4 years ago where it could have resulted in Solomon Thomas.
So, yes, absolutely, a billion times yes.
We have all seen what happens if Barkley gets past the LOS. We have all seen what happens when Barkley gets into the secondary on a pass route.
FWIW, Young, I believe will be a good to very good ER. But it seemed to me he disappeared a bit in big games. It may have to do with double teams.
RBs are not worth that much. Young will have a far greater impact over the course of a decade in his career than Barkley.
This is barely even debatable.
This means, remove Barkley to add Chase but now you also need to add at least 3 better than average OLs somehow.
That's what I'm saying. And he's going to have, it appears, great coaching and he's going to be, it appears, used correctly and he's just entering his prime, and he's the face of the franchise, a locker room leader, important for the culture and buy-in to the program (yeah I know winning provides that) but he is a great talent, proving it on the field with 8 thousand other intangibles that we need.
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In comment 14907278 Brown Recluse said:
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I love Barkley but if we're talking "gold jackets," you take the gold jacket ER over the RB any day of the week.
Shouldn't even be a question for the objective fan.
And Young has proven what beyond college?
I don't care. Barring injury...I think Young is going to be fantastic, even if he is a Redskin. As sure a thing if not more than Bosa last year. And I'd trade Barkley for Bosa without hesitation.
More than bosa? I love young but that’s tough. Let’s slow down...
Young just needs to beat the RT or LT to effect the game
He didn’t have an impact his rookie year nor the games he was healthy last year?
It’s fine if you value Young over Barkley but this isn’t accurate at all. Barkley has performed extremely well despite the bad OLine.
I think Chase Young is a beast. But I also hesitate to compare him to the Bosas just because they went to the same school. Young is a different type of athlete and player than the Bosas, so he isn't guaranteed to see the same type of success. As of this moment without having seen Chase Young play a snap, give me Barkley.
Barkley does seem to be more of an anomaly than Chase Young from a talent perspective though. As great as Young is, he's not necessarily the best EDGE rushing prospect of the past 4 years as Myles Garrett seemed to be considered a little better or atleast neck-and-neck with him. Whereas Barkley was considered an anomaly at the RB position and the most gifted RB prospect in ages.
Guys who are anomalies transcend traditional positional values because of the extra value they provide over even the 2nd best player in the league at the position.
Best EDGE > Best RB
5th best EDGE < Best RB
5th best EDGE > 5th best RB
10th best EDGE >>> 10th best RB
15th best EDGE >>>> 15th best RB
If Barkley is the best RB in the league while Young becomes "only" the 5th best edge rusher in the league, I'm taking Barkley. Just like I would've taken MVP Adrian Peterson and "30 TDs in a season" Tomlinson over whoever the 5th best Edge rusher in the league was those years, I might even take them over whoever was the best edge rusher in the league those years.
RBs are not worth that much. Young will have a far greater impact over the course of a decade in his career than Barkley.
This is barely even debatable.
Of course it is debatable. Young is a rookie. He has not done anything. Not even sure he had as good a college career as Barkley. Didn't Barkley lead the league in yards his rookie year(or was very close) with a POS offensive line?
Young may turnout to be the second coming of Derrick Thomas, but as of right now he has done nothing
Do two TE create so much concern midfield that Barkely gets through the line of scrimmage easily.?
Do we get a tank of a power runner to barley catches 90 passes mismatched against the defense.?
We haven't used Barkley yet.
Is the key to 265 pound young to run straight at him with 320 pound,NFL guards and tackles.?
Teams beat all the great edge players ( including LT and all the great running backs)