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Dak rejects 5 year 175 mill contract

adamg : 5/21/2020 2:10 pm
Would be highest paid QB.
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so I can't include the league MVP?  
UConn4523 : 5/21/2020 4:53 pm : link
it doesn't matter that he isn't a top thrower, that isn't their offense. And if he has another season close to 2019 his contract is going to be huge too and the Ravens likely won't wait to do it like Dallas did/is doing with Dak.

And like I said there's a pretty big drop off after the top 4/5 guys or so, Dak isn't close to them. So if you rank him 6 or 8 or 10 is all semantics at that point, he isn't a top tier QB and "Top 10" doesn't mean much. He's closer to 15 than he is 5, IMO.
most of the league is also playing  
UConn4523 : 5/21/2020 4:56 pm : link
with a far less effective OL and run game, something that needs to be considered if you are rating Dak's play vs. everyone else. Swap him with Rodgers or Watson and Dallas would be 14 win SB contenders.
RE: RE: He’s playing with fire  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/21/2020 5:07 pm : link
In comment 14908240 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
In comment 14908228 bubba0825 said:


Quote:


Andy dalton to me is a slight upgrade.



Really? You would rather face Prescott than Dalton in an important divisional game?

Who wouldn't? They're the exact same QB and one costs <10% of the other.
RE: RE: For those that think Prescott is not a top 5  
allstarjim : 5/21/2020 5:12 pm : link
In comment 14908363 GoDeep13 said:
Quote:
In comment 14908352 allstarjim said:


Quote:


QB.

Please give me the 5 QBs better than him.


Brady
Rodgers
Brees
Mahomes
Ryan
Watson
Stafford


That's not a good list. Watson is too inconsistent right now. Anyone who would trade Dak for Stafford straight up is out of their damn mind.

Ditto for Matt Ryan, the numbers don't say he's better, and you could argue Ryan has had better skill guys around him. In addition, Dak's mobility edge over Ryan does matter. It's somewhat close.

Brady is far from the top guy right now. Brady's efficiency stats are down, his average air yards per completion are down, yards per completion, total yards, passing TDs, rating...all signs are that he's in decline, and Dak statistically is better in just about every metric.

Aaron Rodgers, good but going by the numbers not better than Dak right now. It's close.

In 2019, Dak was:

4th in Completed Passes (Ryan, Goff, Rivers)
6th in Passes Attempted (Goff, Winston, Ryan, Brady, Wentz)
2nd in Passing Yards (Winston)
4th in Passing TDs (Jackson, Winston, Wilson)
10th in Rating (Tannehill [started only 10 games], Brees, Jackson, Cousins, Wilson, Stafford, Mahomes, Garoppolo, and Carr)
3rd in Passing Yards per Game (Winston, Stafford)
4th (tied) in Yards per Pass Completion (Tannehill, Stafford, Winston, Mahomes)
and
5th in Yards per Pass Attempt (Tannehill, Stafford, Garoppolo, Mahomes)

So I don't know how you take him out of the top 5, considering he's 40-24 as a starter and has not had a losing season.

I will say this...He's not transcendent like Mahomes, but how many guys are?

But you can't put a guy like Stafford over him who is 10 games under .500 in his 11-year NFL career and is 0-3 in the playoffs. Dak has at least a playoff win out of 4 seasons. Stafford only made the dance 3 times in 11 seasons and still looking for a W.

I don't want to prop up the Dallas QB, but I'm not going to be a homer and act like he isn't that good just because he plays for a division rival, either.
RE: Let me do a follow up  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/21/2020 5:14 pm : link
In comment 14908365 allstarjim said:
Quote:
All the rookie QBs are maybes, so don't give Burrow or Tua.

Don't give me Lamar Jackson, either. Still not convinced he's a good QB, much less a great QB. Tremendous runner and athlete, though.

And as great as he is, I can't include Tom Brady over Dak. His numbers were down last year, he seems to have lost some on his fastball, he's better than a lot of guys but looks to be in clear decline. Better all-time, yes. Better right now? No.

I'm cool with you saying Drew Brees, but you're not signing him to a four or five year deal at this point anyway.

Matt Ryan is close but I wouldn't say better.

So to me there are two clear cut better QBs in the NFL right now...Pat Mahomes and Russell Wilson. Everyone else is debatable but I'll even concede Lamar Jackson if you want for the sake of argument. And if you put Drew Brees in there above him as well...ok. I think right now I'd want Dak over Brees for a full season, but it's fine.

Either way, I don't think you can really credibly claim another guy is better and push him out of the top 5.

Weird that you didn't even mention Aaron Rodgers.

Prescott is NOT the #3 QB in the NFL. Maybe you need to start wearing a star on your shirt and booking flights to Dallas.
Should we make plans for allstarjim's funeral now, or wait a few days?  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/21/2020 5:15 pm : link
No Giants fan defends a Cowboys QB like this.
RE: RE: For those that think Prescott is not a top 5  
Beer Man : 5/21/2020 5:16 pm : link
In comment 14908363 GoDeep13 said:
Quote:
In comment 14908352 allstarjim said:


Quote:


QB.

Please give me the 5 QBs better than him.


Brady
Rodgers
Brees
Mahomes
Ryan
Watson
Stafford
+1. You can also add Wilson, Garappolo, Ben, Rivers, and Jackson to the list.
COVID 19 may shut down the league this year  
Rudy5757 : 5/21/2020 5:17 pm : link
It is a very real concern. Cities are starting to open up again and if there is a spike in cases everything will be shut down even longer.

If I were Dak I would sign the deal now. If the NFL season is lost, next year the money will be a lot less. I dont think he is a great QB, he is middle of the road. He has had the luxury of havng tremendous talent on the OL and a great RB. He should take the money and run to cash the check.
RE: so I can't include the league MVP?  
allstarjim : 5/21/2020 5:22 pm : link
In comment 14908368 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
it doesn't matter that he isn't a top thrower, that isn't their offense. And if he has another season close to 2019 his contract is going to be huge too and the Ravens likely won't wait to do it like Dallas did/is doing with Dak.

And like I said there's a pretty big drop off after the top 4/5 guys or so, Dak isn't close to them. So if you rank him 6 or 8 or 10 is all semantics at that point, he isn't a top tier QB and "Top 10" doesn't mean much. He's closer to 15 than he is 5, IMO.


I said I'd concede Jackson. If you want to say he's not in the top tier, I'd agree. But he's a top 5 QB.

I'd probably put him at #5, and I'll give Jackson because his season was incredible although I'm not convinced he'll ever be able to win a Super Bowl with his game while I think Dak can...but I'll go:

Mahomes
Russell Wilson
Jackson
Aaron Rodgers
Prescott

And I'm putting Rodgers in there but if we're taking a guy for the next 4 or 5 years I would pick Prescott over him.

Just for 2020 season...if you want to say Drew Brees, I'd argue I'd take Brees in the Superdome but I'd take Prescott in any outdoor stadium over Brees right now. Other guys still have a lot to prove or clearly is a step down. DeShaun Watson is a fun player to watch but efficiency, decision making, mistakes, inconsistency...he is behind Dak in those areas.
I value the truth, being unbiased, and facts  
allstarjim : 5/21/2020 5:25 pm : link
Over homerism.

I hate the Cowboys as much as anyone here, and it disgusts me that they've had our number now for a number of seasons. But people are in here talking about Jimmy Garoppolo is a better QB than Dak Prescott right now. That's a joke and some of you guys need a reality check.
Let's Pretend  
Bob in Newburgh : 5/21/2020 5:29 pm : link
That QB rankings and statistics are totally unaffected by the quality of the surrounding talent.
RE: Is it that  
OC2.0 : 5/21/2020 5:35 pm : link
In comment 14908246 Pete in MD said:
Quote:
crazy? He's betting on himself. He's proven to be a viable starting QB the NFL. He will get the contract he wants somewhere.


Viable is the key word there. That doesn’t get you the contract he’s looking for.
RE: Let's Pretend  
allstarjim : 5/21/2020 5:40 pm : link
In comment 14908386 Bob in Newburgh said:
Quote:
That QB rankings and statistics are totally unaffected by the quality of the surrounding talent.


They are, but I don't think that Dak has had as much of an edge on a lot of those guys.

Yards per completion and per attempt...those are efficiency stats that are pretty good indicators. Other teams have good players around their QBs as well.
RE: I value the truth, being unbiased, and facts  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/21/2020 5:43 pm : link
In comment 14908384 allstarjim said:
Quote:
Over homerism.

I hate the Cowboys as much as anyone here, and it disgusts me that they've had our number now for a number of seasons. But people are in here talking about Jimmy Garoppolo is a better QB than Dak Prescott right now. That's a joke and some of you guys need a reality check.

Anyone who would take Prescott over Rodgers for the next 4-5 years is insane. Or perhaps perfectly sane and just a Cowboys fan.

But not someone who is interested in unbiased, fact-based truth.

Even if Rodgers only plays 2 of those 5 years, he's better than Dak.

Honestly, Dalton might be better than Dak. I'm just glad the Cowboys are even continuing to entertain this negotiation. Dak is the modern equivalent of Trent Dilfer with a much more potent supporting cast.
RE: Should we make plans for allstarjim's funeral now, or wait a few days?  
allstarjim : 5/21/2020 5:45 pm : link
In comment 14908376 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
No Giants fan defends a Cowboys QB like this.


If you could see the room in my house I'm sitting in right now as I type this you wouldn't question my Giants' fandom not even a little bit, lol. Anyway, this stuff isn't that serious.

I would not give Dak anymore money than what they've already offered. But it's tough when you don't have a franchise QB and are looking for one. You can go a long time without having a legit one, and basically put your organization in the wilderness. I agree with whoever said that he will probably play on the franchise tag this year. With COVID-19, I don't see how anyone could possibly give him a mega-contract right now.
RE: Is it that  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/21/2020 5:46 pm : link
In comment 14908249 Pete in MD said:
Quote:
crazy? He's betting on himself. He's proven to be a viable starting QB the NFL. He will get the contract he wants somewhere.

He's betting on himself to do better than being the highest paid player in the league?

Yes, he's crazy.
RE: RE: Should we make plans for allstarjim's funeral now, or wait a few days?  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/21/2020 5:47 pm : link
In comment 14908392 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 14908376 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


No Giants fan defends a Cowboys QB like this.



If you could see the room in my house I'm sitting in right now as I type this you wouldn't question my Giants' fandom not even a little bit, lol. Anyway, this stuff isn't that serious.

I would not give Dak anymore money than what they've already offered. But it's tough when you don't have a franchise QB and are looking for one. You can go a long time without having a legit one, and basically put your organization in the wilderness. I agree with whoever said that he will probably play on the franchise tag this year. With COVID-19, I don't see how anyone could possibly give him a mega-contract right now.

They have the exact same level of QB on their roster already: Andy Dalton.
Some of this  
OC2.0 : 5/21/2020 5:53 pm : link
May have already been mentioned but anyway.
JJ is playing this right(did I just say that) imv. By signing Dalton as holdout insurance & putting Dak on notice they can move on. I think Dak overplayed his hand on this one. Let’s not forget he’s been playing behind a stout OL his whole career. He seems to have.
2019 Dak  
DieHard : 5/21/2020 6:01 pm : link
22 TDs, 3 INTs vs non-playoff teams, averaging 30+ points a game (including 4 games vs the Giants and Redskins' "defenses").

8 TDs and 8 INTs vs playoff teams, averaging just over 18 points a game.

That's really all you need to know about Dak Prescott. If he was our QB, I suspect a lot of people would be moaning about breaking the bank for him.
Dak top 5 in. NFL?  
ZogZerg : 5/21/2020 6:15 pm : link
LOL!!
Funniest thing I've read in a while.
Allstarjim  
UConn4523 : 5/21/2020 6:20 pm : link
Couldn’t disagree with you more. If anyone is stretching things it’s you. If Dak was as good as those I listed he’d be taking over games and he just doesn’t.

So post whatever stats you want, they don’t mean much. Dak Prescott is not a scary QB. He doesn’t have a big or accurate arm and he doesn’t have the wheels. He’s above average good starting QB I’d want on my team anyday if the week but not at 2nd contract money.
RE: I value the truth, being unbiased, and facts  
Jay on the Island : 5/21/2020 8:10 pm : link
In comment 14908384 allstarjim said:
Quote:
Over homerism.

I hate the Cowboys as much as anyone here, and it disgusts me that they've had our number now for a number of seasons. But people are in here talking about Jimmy Garoppolo is a better QB than Dak Prescott right now. That's a joke and some of you guys need a reality check.

It’s not homerism stating that Prescott is not a top 5 QB. I hate the Eagles more than any other team. With that I think Carson Wentz is a better QB than Prescott. Here are a few others:
Brees
Rodgers
Mahomes
Watson
Roethlisberger
Jackson
Wilson
Who the hell's picking the all-star team?  
Mad Mike : 5/21/2020 8:23 pm : link
I know there are injury replacements sometimes, but damm, the bar has really fallen.
RE: Hmm Dakton at $3M or Dak at $40M  
LauderdaleMatty : 5/21/2020 8:27 pm : link
In comment 14908231 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
Boy thats a tough decision


The most upset group are Giants fans. Except of course the few self loathing ones who jump into these threads to tell us guys like this and Capt Kirk are studs worth every penny.

This kid or more delusional than Clowney unless it’s only really a two year deal or somehow it’s mostly not guaranteed
Dak a top 5 QB?  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/21/2020 8:34 pm : link
Hahaha. Yeah, maybe against the Giants. Dak is good, but slow the roll.
lol, I love it  
Geomon : 5/21/2020 8:38 pm : link
Signs, doens't sign, I don't give a fuck. This guy is gonna be sucking dick in an alley in Dallas for a cheeseburger in 10 years.
Daks demands goes so interestingly well with Larry’s post on WWII NY  
plato : 5/21/2020 8:41 pm : link
Football Giants. Times have changed. Not certain country is better off.
Dak wants a 4 year deal  
Rick in Dallas : 5/21/2020 8:59 pm : link
Cowboys want a 5 year deal... that’s where negotiations are stalled
Chris Simms is full of BS.
BTW... Dak is better than Wentz.
RE: Dak wants a 4 year deal  
UConn4523 : 5/21/2020 9:53 pm : link
In comment 14908487 Rick in Dallas said:
Quote:
Cowboys want a 5 year deal... that’s where negotiations are stalled
Chris Simms is full of BS.
BTW... Dak is better than Wentz.


Define better. Wentz was almost an MVP pre injury and injuries are the only thing Dak has over him. For the record I think Wentz contract is nuts too but that’s not because of his play.

If not for being injury prone he’d be on that list ahead of Dak.
Dak v Wentz  
Rick in Dallas : 5/21/2020 10:19 pm : link
QBR:
Wentz. 92.7
Dak. 97.1

Game Winning Drives:
Wentz. 8
Dak 14

Rushing TD’s
Wentz. 3
Dak. 21


But most important to a team is Availability:
Dak has not missed a game in 4 years.

A lot of BBI folks hating on Dak but he is a very good QB
Stop the hating
Dak has some arm/accuracy limitations on the deep outs...  
Torrag : 5/21/2020 10:25 pm : link
that allow defenses some 'cheating' in coverage. Aside from that he's really a very, very good QB. His 2019 season was excellent and if that's what they Cowboys get for the next 4-5 years they'll be getting a fair value.





Rick  
UConn4523 : 5/21/2020 10:32 pm : link
care to discuss supporting cast or no? Did you see who Wentz three to last year and who his RBs were?
UConn  
Rick in Dallas : 5/21/2020 10:41 pm : link
Look it’s your opinion that Wentz is better than Dak and I feel it is just the opposite.
That’s the bottom line I won’t change your opinion and you won’t change mine.
They are both good QB’s but I prefer Dak.
Amen brother.
RE: For those that think Prescott is not a top 5  
LauderdaleMatty : 5/21/2020 10:59 pm : link
In comment 14908352 allstarjim said:
Quote:
QB.

Please give me the 5 QBs better than him.


Mahomes. Brady. Breese Rogers Wilson Ryan Stafford Watson. The guy blows. His best games are when he can hand the ball off

Tbd the rest of the NFL. Guy his closer to Kirk Cousins than any of the guys I’ve mentioned. Some of who certainly are not young but feel free to live the guy. Watching him you NEVER think he’s going to be like Mahomes
RE: I value the truth, being unbiased, and facts  
LauderdaleMatty : 5/21/2020 11:13 pm : link
In comment 14908384 allstarjim said:
Quote:
Over homerism.

I hate the Cowboys as much as anyone here, and it disgusts me that they've had our number now for a number of seasons. But people are in here talking about Jimmy Garoppolo is a better QB than Dak Prescott right now. That's a joke and some of you guys need a reality check.


And Sonos saying Prescott is better than Brees Brady and Rodgers. Last year. Next year. And maybe the year after that. Then you have Mahomes.

You’re going to tell me you can hands down say that Matt Ryan or Stafford would be better than him on that team next year? And I don’t even Ike those two. This is an opinion thing but you’re just being silly at this lint because literally no one agrees with you
RE: I value the truth, being unbiased, and facts  
NINEster : 5/21/2020 11:42 pm : link
In comment 14908384 allstarjim said:
Quote:
Over homerism.

I hate the Cowboys as much as anyone here, and it disgusts me that they've had our number now for a number of seasons. But people are in here talking about Jimmy Garoppolo is a better QB than Dak Prescott right now. That's a joke and some of you guys need a reality check.


Dak hasn't done enough in this league to warrant that type of shield from comparisons to other NFLs QB.

From 2019 in the Superdome:

Saints 12, Cowboys 10
49ers 48, Saints 46

He's not better than Garoppolo or the other Eastern Illinois alum Tony Romo.



Great! I hope he holds out for $400 million! The cowturds deserve  
Jack Stroud : 5/21/2020 11:56 pm : link
everything they get!
RE: Dak is a top 10 QB in this league easily  
Optimus-NY : 5/22/2020 12:06 am : link
In comment 14908270 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
He is better than just a “proven” starting QB he’s much more than that. Let’s not forgot he wasn’t blessed with great outside help. Outside of the run game his WRs have been exactly average. Yes they got cooper and Gallup in the draft. That’s when things started happening for the offense.


Really? Drop the crack pipe mongo.
I can't remember  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 5/22/2020 12:07 am : link
seeing a thread where BBIers are just so divided on a player.

Some think he's equal to Dalton and worse than Garopallo? I'm sorry but that's ridiculous. He is much better than Dalton's mediocre ass and he's clearly better than Garapolo as well. But then others think he's better than Brees, which is equally ridiculous.

I think it's in the middle of what you guys are saying. Without really looking at it and just going by "feel", he's closer to being the 10th best QB in the league (8-12 range) than he is to being either the 5th or 15th.
Yup, I agree  
UConn4523 : 5/22/2020 12:17 am : link
he’s right around that top 10 mark give or take. He can certainly get closer to top 5 but just isn’t there, doesn’t have the big wins and never really carries them. When that team goes on win streaks it’s usually because of Zeke and the defense. On another team he’s likely average, they’ve given him a lot in Dallas.
Pro Football Reference has a stat  
allstarjim : 5/22/2020 1:58 am : link
Called AV - Approximate Value.

Dak was I believe tied for 3rd highest AV at the position last year so I don't know what to tell you guys.

And guy who said he'd take Aaron Rodgers for the next 4-5 years...you realize Rodgers will be 37 this year, right?
AV is a nice thing to look at  
UConn4523 : 5/22/2020 8:02 am : link
but its hardly an accurate look into performance. It was created to put some sort of data behind rating entire careers with stats being the driving force. And stats, as we all know, are very misleading. The guy who created it said himself its just a different way to separate seasons played and accolades like pro-bowls.

Take a guy like Beckham and his 2016 season - let me know what you think of his AV compared to his importance in making the playoffs.

Take a look at Russell Wilson's 2019 AV which IMO is a joke. He was up there with Mahaomes and Jackson the first half of the season and tailed off when the injuries were insurmountable. And that's why I don't like this stat - it doesn't weigh your value to your team which is a better indicator off Value in a sport where there's so much variance team to team (Dak's great OLine and run game, for example).

So yeah I dont know what else to say on it. If you think Dak Prescott is elevating his offense to places it wouldn't be without him, then I guess it really isn't worth discussing.
RE: Yup, I agree  
section125 : 5/22/2020 8:28 am : link
In comment 14908554 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
he’s right around that top 10 mark give or take. He can certainly get closer to top 5 but just isn’t there, doesn’t have the big wins and never really carries them. When that team goes on win streaks it’s usually because of Zeke and the defense. On another team he’s likely average, they’ve given him a lot in Dallas.


This is what I see. Yes Dak is a very good QB, but he does not seem able to win the big game - like Romo. Could it be a good coaching staff was able to get the most out of it's QBs(throwing Romo in here too) against Reg season opponents but once the level of competition stepped up the QBs "flaws" or abilities were exposed.(or is it that the QBs carried the staff?)

I think Dak is probably a better QB than most at BBI give him credit for, but not sure he is in that elite status worthy of over #30 mill per year.
I’ll take Jones at his Salary over him.  
Carl in CT : 5/22/2020 9:00 am : link
If we did the right thing with the rest of the money. Not waste it on average players.
RE: RE: I value the truth, being unbiased, and facts  
Beer Man : 5/22/2020 9:31 am : link
In comment 14908537 NINEster said:
Quote:

He's not better than Garoppolo or the other Eastern Illinois alum Tony Romo.


We can compare every QB on the list to Dak, and for some there will be differing opinions, but I believe that most will agree:
1. Dak is a good, but not an elite QB
2. Dak is not a top-10, much less top-5 QB

So please Dallas, sign him up to be the highest paid QB in the NFL.
RE: RE: RE: I value the truth, being unbiased, and facts  
fanatic II : 5/22/2020 11:11 am : link
In comment 14908682 Beer Man said:
Quote:
In comment 14908537 NINEster said:


Quote:



He's not better than Garoppolo or the other Eastern Illinois alum Tony Romo.




We can compare every QB on the list to Dak, and for some there will be differing opinions, but I believe that most will agree:
1. Dak is a good, but not an elite QB
2. Dak is not a top-10, much less top-5 QB

So please Dallas, sign him up to be the highest paid QB in the NFL.


He'll be the highest paid QB for this year(if he signs), but when Mahomes and Watson sign he will be the 3rd.

By the time Jones signs a second contract(if he does) Prescott will barely be in the top 10.

Enjoy Jones while you can because sooner than you think, the piper will need to be paid.

RE: RE: For those that think Prescott is not a top 5  
ClayfromBklyn : 5/22/2020 11:21 am : link
Dak has had a few opportunities to carry his team...and failed each time. He is not even one of the top 5 players on his TEAM, much less top 5 QBs in the NFL. Zeke, Tyron, Zach, Demarcus, Amari, Jaylon, Leighton, and until now, Travis, Byron and maybe even Robert, were all more important to Dallas's success than Dak is. And Lamb is about to be. Dalton will walk in there for 1/10th the salary & do just as good a job. Dak is WAAAAY over-rated, and has on ethe easiest jobs in the NFL. Behind that O-line, with that RB and WR/TE tandem, and with that Defense, they should've had a few deep playoff runs by now. But please, by all means, pay him $40M/per, Jerry!
People..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/22/2020 12:22 pm : link
have rated the Cowboys talent as one of the best in the league for the past several years.

Is it not logical to think that almost any competent signal caller could take them as far as they've gone? People rag on Dalton all the time, but don't forget he went to the playoffs quite often with the Bengals.

Today's version may not be as good as Prescott, but Dak gets a lot of praise despite rarely carrying the team when the run game is stopped.
Jean Jaques Taylor  
fanatic II : 5/22/2020 12:52 pm : link
Puts out an article every Friday and one of the tid bits was that Todd France(Prescott's agent) and Dallas have not had any contact since late March, early April. And probably won't speak again till July when the deadline is.

This isn't the first time that reports came out about the negotiations and numbers. And each time the reports has been false because the two sides hadn't spoken for months.
The question to ask is Why are the 'Boys leaking this?  
BlueLou'sBack : 5/23/2020 8:43 am : link
Given the guy above who claims they've had zero contact since March, this info is a leak to make Dak look greedy, no?

What do the Boys have to gain from making Dak look greedy?
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