Worry about 2024 when it gets here. We need to start winning again. There's NOTHING wrong with 2 year guys like Griffen or even Clowney. You win with them, and draft well with them in the fold and replace them as needed. WTF is wrong with that. It sure as fuck beats the alternative of losing without them.
It makes zero sense to sign a guy who had 8 sacks when the pass rush is anemic, at best?
Don't get me started on this weird line of thinking. It makes ZERO sense? If the 1981 Giants felt that way, Rob Carpenter isn't a NY Giant. Because why should we trade for a running back in his prime already? The Giants suck right? They were coming off a 4 win season in 1980.
What about 2005? Some of you have really warped memories. The 05 Giants weren't supposed to be THAt good. They weren't ready to win 11 games, until they did in fact win 11 games. And how did they win 11 games and build something? They signed VETERANS. Guys that knew how ti win.
I don't wanna hear any crap that5 this team is 3 years away. Save it. Sell bullshit crazy somewhere else. NO TEAM in the NFL is 3 years away from anything. 3 years is a friggin eternity. Teams go from bad to good to bad again in 3 years. This very franchise went from bad to good to average to title winning to elite to average again in 5 years span from 04-09.
Time win to win fucking games again. That doesn't mean throw caution and pragmatic thinking to the wind but if a guy is available that can help this team tomorrow, go out and fucking get him, especially if its an older guy that won't command a lifetime cap killing contract like Griffen. He's perfect for this team because he can actually make a play in the 4th quarter.
Would this guy not be a good addition? He would be the crash DE and would replace Golden, he had 8 sacks last year, an interception, made pro bowl, had 24 QB hits, 11 TFL. He would be good to add on a 1 year deal. I am pretty confident that Carter and Ximines will be much better this season and Fackrell played good for Graham, also Blake Martinez had 5.5 sacks in Graham's defense also, Giants made shrewd moves this off season.
he is looking for 13 + million.
he might take a 1 year prove it deal if everything dries up.
I think a team close to a SB run will give him 10+ million for a one year deal.
Giants are probably priced out of Griffen but if he was available for 6-8 million, Giants could be players if they work a deal with Williams off the tag.
IMO he would be a great pick up on a short prove it deal.
Is Griffen any more than a 4-3 DE? Seems like he isn’t versatile
The Giants aren't going anywhere this year. They're far from being one dominant ER away from contention. I'd rather see them save the roster spot and give the playing time to one or two of their younger guys to see what they can accomplish in the new scheme, and under the tutelage of the new coaching staff.
RE: we should be looking for some stop gap players like Griffen
Worry about 2024 when it gets here. We need to start winning again. There's NOTHING wrong with 2 year guys like Griffen or even Clowney. You win with them, and draft well with them in the fold and replace them as needed. WTF is wrong with that. It sure as fuck beats the alternative of losing without them.
You're not wrong about needing some stopgaps, but your whole schtick of "we need players now, fuck the cap, forget the future, we'll deal with that when it comes" is fucking lunacy. You say the same shit on Knicks threads and you're just as wrong there.
Build correctly. Have a plan. Make solid moves. Do not capitulate to kneejerk reactions when things don't materialize in an ideal fashion.
RE: I know I'm in the minority, but I disagree with most of you.
The Giants aren't going anywhere this year. They're far from being one dominant ER away from contention. I'd rather see them save the roster spot and give the playing time to one or two of their younger guys to see what they can accomplish in the new scheme, and under the tutelage of the new coaching staff.
You literally have zero way of knowing this. You would basically have to guarantee there’s no way Jones and Barkley could turn into legit stars this year which is ludicrous.
RE: RE: I know I'm in the minority, but I disagree with most of you.
The Giants aren't going anywhere this year. They're far from being one dominant ER away from contention. I'd rather see them save the roster spot and give the playing time to one or two of their younger guys to see what they can accomplish in the new scheme, and under the tutelage of the new coaching staff.
You literally have zero way of knowing this. You would basically have to guarantee there’s no way Jones and Barkley could turn into legit stars this year which is ludicrous.
Klaatu is generally a very good poster and I enjoy his posts, but he’s always been all in on if you’re a young team there is zero room for anyone over 25 on the roster. There are many people on this site that have the same mind set.
RE: RE: we should be looking for some stop gap players like Griffen
Worry about 2024 when it gets here. We need to start winning again. There's NOTHING wrong with 2 year guys like Griffen or even Clowney. You win with them, and draft well with them in the fold and replace them as needed. WTF is wrong with that. It sure as fuck beats the alternative of losing without them.
You're not wrong about needing some stopgaps, but your whole schtick of "we need players now, fuck the cap, forget the future, we'll deal with that when it comes" is fucking lunacy. You say the same shit on Knicks threads and you're just as wrong there.
Build correctly. Have a plan. Make solid moves. Do not capitulate to kneejerk reactions when things don't materialize in an ideal fashion.
If you combine my posts I have always said not to throw caution to the wind. Cap hell only sucks if the team sucks. And even when we sucked these last few years the giants got out of those so called big bad contracts rather quickly and they netted draft picks at the same time.
Yes we need to be calculated and careful but you can be too careful. The knicks ignored some good players last summer and went for the HOF legends and got shut out. I wish the Knicks had a guy like Kemba walker right about now. He wasn’t good enough to even get a phone call from the knicks, supposedly.
RE: RE: RE: I know I'm in the minority, but I disagree with most of you.
The Giants aren't going anywhere this year. They're far from being one dominant ER away from contention. I'd rather see them save the roster spot and give the playing time to one or two of their younger guys to see what they can accomplish in the new scheme, and under the tutelage of the new coaching staff.
You literally have zero way of knowing this. You would basically have to guarantee there’s no way Jones and Barkley could turn into legit stars this year which is ludicrous.
Klaatu is generally a very good poster and I enjoy his posts, but he’s always been all in on if you’re a young team there is zero room for anyone over 25 on the roster. There are many people on this site that have the same mind set.
Yeah.. In some seasons, that's the correct mindset. If you have an over the hill team going nowhere... sure. But that's not the position we are in. The correct response is that the range of outcomes for 2020 is a mile wide. A good QB alone can carry a team in todays NFL. Jones clearly has talent. So does our new young RB, TE, OL, WR, DL, and secondary. We could absolutely take a massive jump next year. We could also not. The people that want to add a pass rusher are simply hedging their bets in case we do end up on the "young players progressing" end. It's not difficult to understand.
RE: RE: I know I'm in the minority, but I disagree with most of you.
The Giants aren't going anywhere this year. They're far from being one dominant ER away from contention. I'd rather see them save the roster spot and give the playing time to one or two of their younger guys to see what they can accomplish in the new scheme, and under the tutelage of the new coaching staff.
You literally have zero way of knowing this. You would basically have to guarantee there’s no way Jones and Barkley could turn into legit stars this year which is ludicrous.
I literally have zero way of knowing a lot of things, however, I can look at all of the available evidence and make an educated guess. When I see a young team with a brand new staff (including a first-time Head Coach), implementing new schemes on both sides of the ball, with an offensive line in flux, with skill players - key components all - who have serious injury concerns, plus a brutal schedule and an abbreviated offseason, my guess is that the Giants will be lucky to go 8-8. That has less to do with Jones and Barkley (whom I feel pretty good about) and more to do with the obstacles that the entire team has to overcome.
Having said that, I'll echo something I've said before, that their win-loss record in 2020 means very little to me. My hope is that with Joe Judge at the helm, the Giants have begun to build a foundation that will transform them from league whipping-boys into a perennial playoff team, a team with realistic aspirations for a championship every year. That transformation should begin with a thorough evaluation of the talent on-hand, not just in camp, but throughout the season, with an eye towards identifying trouble areas that will need to be addressed in the 2021 offseason. I don't want to see any currently perceived deficiencies simply "patched" in the hope that it might help them eke out another "feel good" win or two. I believe that the in-house talent should be given the chance to show its collective mettle, and allow the staff to decide who deserves to be around for the long-haul, and who doesn't.
In essence, I'd rather see them suffer short-term pain while planning for long-term gain.
Klaatu is generally a very good poster and I enjoy his posts, but he’s always been all in on if you’re a young team there is zero room for anyone over 25 on the roster. There are many people on this site that have the same mind set.
That's simply not true. There's a time when an injection of veteran blood can turn a good team into a great one. This is not that time, because the Giants are not a good team...yet. If the Giants' strategy is to build primarily through the draft, then they must give their younger players time to develop, if they can, particularly now that they've brought in a brand new coaching staff. If those players fail, then they certainly need to be replaced, but you won't know that if they're not given the chance.
Expect the Giants to build a Patriots-type roster.
Griffen's an expensive headcase. That is not the type of acquisition the Pats make. They'd give the ER job to a lunch bucket guy you've never heard of and he'd play solid team football and run through a brick wall for the coaching staff.
RE: RE: RE: I know I'm in the minority, but I disagree with most of you.
The Giants aren't going anywhere this year. They're far from being one dominant ER away from contention. I'd rather see them save the roster spot and give the playing time to one or two of their younger guys to see what they can accomplish in the new scheme, and under the tutelage of the new coaching staff.
You literally have zero way of knowing this. You would basically have to guarantee there’s no way Jones and Barkley could turn into legit stars this year which is ludicrous.
I literally have zero way of knowing a lot of things, however, I can look at all of the available evidence and make an educated guess. When I see a young team with a brand new staff (including a first-time Head Coach), implementing new schemes on both sides of the ball, with an offensive line in flux, with skill players - key components all - who have serious injury concerns, plus a brutal schedule and an abbreviated offseason, my guess is that the Giants will be lucky to go 8-8. That has less to do with Jones and Barkley (whom I feel pretty good about) and more to do with the obstacles that the entire team has to overcome.
Having said that, I'll echo something I've said before, that their win-loss record in 2020 means very little to me. My hope is that with Joe Judge at the helm, the Giants have begun to build a foundation that will transform them from league whipping-boys into a perennial playoff team, a team with realistic aspirations for a championship every year. That transformation should begin with a thorough evaluation of the talent on-hand, not just in camp, but throughout the season, with an eye towards identifying trouble areas that will need to be addressed in the 2021 offseason. I don't want to see any currently perceived deficiencies simply "patched" in the hope that it might help them eke out another "feel good" win or two. I believe that the in-house talent should be given the chance to show its collective mettle, and allow the staff to decide who deserves to be around for the long-haul, and who doesn't.
In essence, I'd rather see them suffer short-term pain while planning for long-term gain.
This would seem far more reasonable if you were referring to MLB, NBA, or the NHL. Doesn’t sound like you have a very good grasp on the NFL at all. Players shelf lives are very short to begin with, injuries can destroy the most talented teams every year, and an 8-8/9-7 team can get hot and the end of a season and go all the way with a couple of lucky bounces (See Giants 2011). Sorry, with respect, I don’t agree at all.
And as for the Giants, again, there’s a very wide range of outcome right now for 2020 but there’s also not a lot of holes on this roster. Plugging up the center spot and adding a legit pass rushing specialist could go a long way if we find ourselves in the mix at the end of the year.
After going 12-4 in 2008, the 2009 Giants underwent several coaching changes (including losing DC Steve Spagnuolo), as well as some personnel changes (including Amani Toomer signing with the KC, and Sam Madison retiring). However, they still sent four players to the Pro Bowl, and they upgraded their core with the additions of free agents Chris Canty and Michael Boley. They may have underachieved, but they were still a good team, with a veteran QB and a nice mix of veterans and promising youngsters.
In 2010, they hit on two studs in the draft with JPP and Linval Joseph, and they signed free agent Antrel Rolle. They also made some staff changes, most notably bringing in Perry Fewell as DC. That team sent five players to the Pro Bowl and three of them made 2nd team All-Pro (as did Osi Umenyiora). Although they didn't make the playoffs, they did finish 10-6.
In 2011, they started out 6-2 before losing their next four games, but closed out the season going 3-1, and that year 9-7 was enough to win their division and launch them into their second dramatic championship run of the Eli era. Eli and JPP were selected to the Pro Bowl, JPP and Victor Cruz made All-Pro.
The point of this trip down memory lane is to dismiss the notion that the 2020 Giants are in any way, shape, or form comparable to the 2011 Giants. The 2011 Giants were a very talented team, with Pro Bowl-caliber players on both sides of the ball, and a QB in his prime. Their record for the three previous years was 30-18. Do I have to remind you what the Giants record is over the past three years? The 2011 team had a solid core in place, and they'd augmented that core with several good draft picks and some key free agent signings. They had a foundation upon which they could build. The 2020 Giants have no such foundation. I want to see them build one.
Finally, I believe that I do have a grasp on the NFL. I believe what you have a grasp on are straws.
I didn't read past the headline.
Not sure if that's all it is.
link - ( New Window )
I didn't read past the headline.
Not sure if that's all it is. link - ( New Window )
Or as it was read: the Giants to add Everson Griffen and Markus Golden
Haha
It makes zero sense to sign a guy who had 8 sacks when the pass rush is anemic, at best?
lolwut
Worry about 2024 when it gets here. We need to start winning again. There's NOTHING wrong with 2 year guys like Griffen or even Clowney. You win with them, and draft well with them in the fold and replace them as needed. WTF is wrong with that. It sure as fuck beats the alternative of losing without them.
Quote:
Everson griffen. Legit zero sense
It makes zero sense to sign a guy who had 8 sacks when the pass rush is anemic, at best?
Don't get me started on this weird line of thinking. It makes ZERO sense? If the 1981 Giants felt that way, Rob Carpenter isn't a NY Giant. Because why should we trade for a running back in his prime already? The Giants suck right? They were coming off a 4 win season in 1980.
What about 2005? Some of you have really warped memories. The 05 Giants weren't supposed to be THAt good. They weren't ready to win 11 games, until they did in fact win 11 games. And how did they win 11 games and build something? They signed VETERANS. Guys that knew how ti win.
I don't wanna hear any crap that5 this team is 3 years away. Save it. Sell bullshit crazy somewhere else. NO TEAM in the NFL is 3 years away from anything. 3 years is a friggin eternity. Teams go from bad to good to bad again in 3 years. This very franchise went from bad to good to average to title winning to elite to average again in 5 years span from 04-09.
Time win to win fucking games again. That doesn't mean throw caution and pragmatic thinking to the wind but if a guy is available that can help this team tomorrow, go out and fucking get him, especially if its an older guy that won't command a lifetime cap killing contract like Griffen. He's perfect for this team because he can actually make a play in the 4th quarter.
This D improved thanks to FA but we still don't have an angry maniac in the front 7.
This D improved thanks to FA but we still don't have an angry maniac in the front 7.
They have enough angry maniacs in the stands and on the internet.
This is exactly the type of player I would want for a few years to go after the QB.
Because he is a productive player at a position of need?
Great post.
he might take a 1 year prove it deal if everything dries up.
I think a team close to a SB run will give him 10+ million for a one year deal.
Giants are probably priced out of Griffen but if he was available for 6-8 million, Giants could be players if they work a deal with Williams off the tag.
IMO he would be a great pick up on a short prove it deal.
Quote:
This D improved thanks to FA but we still don't have an angry maniac in the front 7.
They have enough angry maniacs in the stands and on the internet.
touche
Worry about 2024 when it gets here. We need to start winning again. There's NOTHING wrong with 2 year guys like Griffen or even Clowney. You win with them, and draft well with them in the fold and replace them as needed. WTF is wrong with that. It sure as fuck beats the alternative of losing without them.
You're not wrong about needing some stopgaps, but your whole schtick of "we need players now, fuck the cap, forget the future, we'll deal with that when it comes" is fucking lunacy. You say the same shit on Knicks threads and you're just as wrong there.
Build correctly. Have a plan. Make solid moves. Do not capitulate to kneejerk reactions when things don't materialize in an ideal fashion.
You literally have zero way of knowing this. You would basically have to guarantee there’s no way Jones and Barkley could turn into legit stars this year which is ludicrous.
Quote:
The Giants aren't going anywhere this year. They're far from being one dominant ER away from contention. I'd rather see them save the roster spot and give the playing time to one or two of their younger guys to see what they can accomplish in the new scheme, and under the tutelage of the new coaching staff.
You literally have zero way of knowing this. You would basically have to guarantee there’s no way Jones and Barkley could turn into legit stars this year which is ludicrous.
Klaatu is generally a very good poster and I enjoy his posts, but he’s always been all in on if you’re a young team there is zero room for anyone over 25 on the roster. There are many people on this site that have the same mind set.
Quote:
but what do I know...
Worry about 2024 when it gets here. We need to start winning again. There's NOTHING wrong with 2 year guys like Griffen or even Clowney. You win with them, and draft well with them in the fold and replace them as needed. WTF is wrong with that. It sure as fuck beats the alternative of losing without them.
You're not wrong about needing some stopgaps, but your whole schtick of "we need players now, fuck the cap, forget the future, we'll deal with that when it comes" is fucking lunacy. You say the same shit on Knicks threads and you're just as wrong there.
Build correctly. Have a plan. Make solid moves. Do not capitulate to kneejerk reactions when things don't materialize in an ideal fashion.
If you combine my posts I have always said not to throw caution to the wind. Cap hell only sucks if the team sucks. And even when we sucked these last few years the giants got out of those so called big bad contracts rather quickly and they netted draft picks at the same time.
Yes we need to be calculated and careful but you can be too careful. The knicks ignored some good players last summer and went for the HOF legends and got shut out. I wish the Knicks had a guy like Kemba walker right about now. He wasn’t good enough to even get a phone call from the knicks, supposedly.
Quote:
In comment 14908993 Klaatu said:
Quote:
The Giants aren't going anywhere this year. They're far from being one dominant ER away from contention. I'd rather see them save the roster spot and give the playing time to one or two of their younger guys to see what they can accomplish in the new scheme, and under the tutelage of the new coaching staff.
You literally have zero way of knowing this. You would basically have to guarantee there’s no way Jones and Barkley could turn into legit stars this year which is ludicrous.
Klaatu is generally a very good poster and I enjoy his posts, but he’s always been all in on if you’re a young team there is zero room for anyone over 25 on the roster. There are many people on this site that have the same mind set.
Yeah.. In some seasons, that's the correct mindset. If you have an over the hill team going nowhere... sure. But that's not the position we are in. The correct response is that the range of outcomes for 2020 is a mile wide. A good QB alone can carry a team in todays NFL. Jones clearly has talent. So does our new young RB, TE, OL, WR, DL, and secondary. We could absolutely take a massive jump next year. We could also not. The people that want to add a pass rusher are simply hedging their bets in case we do end up on the "young players progressing" end. It's not difficult to understand.
Quote:
The Giants aren't going anywhere this year. They're far from being one dominant ER away from contention. I'd rather see them save the roster spot and give the playing time to one or two of their younger guys to see what they can accomplish in the new scheme, and under the tutelage of the new coaching staff.
You literally have zero way of knowing this. You would basically have to guarantee there’s no way Jones and Barkley could turn into legit stars this year which is ludicrous.
I literally have zero way of knowing a lot of things, however, I can look at all of the available evidence and make an educated guess. When I see a young team with a brand new staff (including a first-time Head Coach), implementing new schemes on both sides of the ball, with an offensive line in flux, with skill players - key components all - who have serious injury concerns, plus a brutal schedule and an abbreviated offseason, my guess is that the Giants will be lucky to go 8-8. That has less to do with Jones and Barkley (whom I feel pretty good about) and more to do with the obstacles that the entire team has to overcome.
Having said that, I'll echo something I've said before, that their win-loss record in 2020 means very little to me. My hope is that with Joe Judge at the helm, the Giants have begun to build a foundation that will transform them from league whipping-boys into a perennial playoff team, a team with realistic aspirations for a championship every year. That transformation should begin with a thorough evaluation of the talent on-hand, not just in camp, but throughout the season, with an eye towards identifying trouble areas that will need to be addressed in the 2021 offseason. I don't want to see any currently perceived deficiencies simply "patched" in the hope that it might help them eke out another "feel good" win or two. I believe that the in-house talent should be given the chance to show its collective mettle, and allow the staff to decide who deserves to be around for the long-haul, and who doesn't.
In essence, I'd rather see them suffer short-term pain while planning for long-term gain.
Klaatu is generally a very good poster and I enjoy his posts, but he’s always been all in on if you’re a young team there is zero room for anyone over 25 on the roster. There are many people on this site that have the same mind set.
That's simply not true. There's a time when an injection of veteran blood can turn a good team into a great one. This is not that time, because the Giants are not a good team...yet. If the Giants' strategy is to build primarily through the draft, then they must give their younger players time to develop, if they can, particularly now that they've brought in a brand new coaching staff. If those players fail, then they certainly need to be replaced, but you won't know that if they're not given the chance.
Quote:
In comment 14908993 Klaatu said:
Quote:
The Giants aren't going anywhere this year. They're far from being one dominant ER away from contention. I'd rather see them save the roster spot and give the playing time to one or two of their younger guys to see what they can accomplish in the new scheme, and under the tutelage of the new coaching staff.
You literally have zero way of knowing this. You would basically have to guarantee there’s no way Jones and Barkley could turn into legit stars this year which is ludicrous.
I literally have zero way of knowing a lot of things, however, I can look at all of the available evidence and make an educated guess. When I see a young team with a brand new staff (including a first-time Head Coach), implementing new schemes on both sides of the ball, with an offensive line in flux, with skill players - key components all - who have serious injury concerns, plus a brutal schedule and an abbreviated offseason, my guess is that the Giants will be lucky to go 8-8. That has less to do with Jones and Barkley (whom I feel pretty good about) and more to do with the obstacles that the entire team has to overcome.
Having said that, I'll echo something I've said before, that their win-loss record in 2020 means very little to me. My hope is that with Joe Judge at the helm, the Giants have begun to build a foundation that will transform them from league whipping-boys into a perennial playoff team, a team with realistic aspirations for a championship every year. That transformation should begin with a thorough evaluation of the talent on-hand, not just in camp, but throughout the season, with an eye towards identifying trouble areas that will need to be addressed in the 2021 offseason. I don't want to see any currently perceived deficiencies simply "patched" in the hope that it might help them eke out another "feel good" win or two. I believe that the in-house talent should be given the chance to show its collective mettle, and allow the staff to decide who deserves to be around for the long-haul, and who doesn't.
In essence, I'd rather see them suffer short-term pain while planning for long-term gain.
This would seem far more reasonable if you were referring to MLB, NBA, or the NHL. Doesn’t sound like you have a very good grasp on the NFL at all. Players shelf lives are very short to begin with, injuries can destroy the most talented teams every year, and an 8-8/9-7 team can get hot and the end of a season and go all the way with a couple of lucky bounces (See Giants 2011). Sorry, with respect, I don’t agree at all.
And as for the Giants, again, there’s a very wide range of outcome right now for 2020 but there’s also not a lot of holes on this roster. Plugging up the center spot and adding a legit pass rushing specialist could go a long way if we find ourselves in the mix at the end of the year.
In 2010, they hit on two studs in the draft with JPP and Linval Joseph, and they signed free agent Antrel Rolle. They also made some staff changes, most notably bringing in Perry Fewell as DC. That team sent five players to the Pro Bowl and three of them made 2nd team All-Pro (as did Osi Umenyiora). Although they didn't make the playoffs, they did finish 10-6.
In 2011, they started out 6-2 before losing their next four games, but closed out the season going 3-1, and that year 9-7 was enough to win their division and launch them into their second dramatic championship run of the Eli era. Eli and JPP were selected to the Pro Bowl, JPP and Victor Cruz made All-Pro.
The point of this trip down memory lane is to dismiss the notion that the 2020 Giants are in any way, shape, or form comparable to the 2011 Giants. The 2011 Giants were a very talented team, with Pro Bowl-caliber players on both sides of the ball, and a QB in his prime. Their record for the three previous years was 30-18. Do I have to remind you what the Giants record is over the past three years? The 2011 team had a solid core in place, and they'd augmented that core with several good draft picks and some key free agent signings. They had a foundation upon which they could build. The 2020 Giants have no such foundation. I want to see them build one.
Finally, I believe that I do have a grasp on the NFL. I believe what you have a grasp on are straws.