Context... this is the Week 14 game against the 11-2 Washington Redskins and 11-2 New York Giants. This was the "game of the year" in the NFC, with the winner having the inside path to win the NFC East and possibly home field advantage throughout the playoffs.
The last time the New York Giants won the division was 1963.
If the Giants don't win this game, they have a much, much more difficult road to make it to Super Bowl XXI. In the earlier game against the Redskins in October (game 7 of the Mets-Redsox World Series), the Redskins almost came back to steal again from the Giants until Joe Morris' late TD run.
In my opinion, the Redskins were the second-best team in the NFL that year.
The first half of this game was a slugfest. The Giants got some breaks (Joe Morris fumbled a ball that the Giants miraculously recovered, a delay of game penalty on the Giants erased a sack fumble by Simms...Giants went onto score).
The Giants led 14-7 at the half with a late 2nd quarter TD drive that was critical heading into halftime as the crowd had gotten back into it (RFK used to rock back in those days).
Giants started to take control in the 3rd quarter as Jay Schroeder began to fall apart under the NYG pass rush.
Up 17-7 late in the 3rd quarter, facing 3rd-and-12 and not wanting to settle for a second field goal in a row, Phil Simms threw this pass to Phil McConkey, who was covered by arguably the best cover corner in the NFL at the time, Darrell Green.
down leading to giant winning fg. Went on to go all the way in first super bowl win for giants and only win for Simms.
That was also a great and critical pass. My favorite because I was there in Minn and couldn’t watch the FG attempt. The three of us, wife, son and I, flew back home happy.
And Parcells saying to him "Simms they hate us here in DC so much they like us". Perfect comment. As heated as that rivalry was, I miss RFK. They always say that place shook. I went to the Monday night opener in '88 and no joke, When Monte Coleman had a pick 6 that place was shaking. Thank God Phil, Odessa Turner and Raul Allegre took care of business...
certainly didn’t win the division. We were already up by 10 with the D dominating. The game wasn’t as close as the score indicated.
We don’t win that Seattle game(4th and 17 pass which allowed a GW FG) we come in to Washington 10-3
Re-watch the first half of the game. It was closer than you think. The Giants caught two huge breaks in the first half. The game easily could have been 7-7 (or worse) at the half.
The Giants took control in the 3rd quarter, but it was that pass that sealed the deal.
down leading to giant winning fg. Went on to go all the way in first super bowl win for giants and only win for Simms.
That was also a great and critical pass. My favorite because I was there in Minn and couldn’t watch the FG attempt. The three of us, wife, son and I, flew back home happy.
The 4th-and-17 throw was impressive because Simms got clobbered on the play and Johnson wasn't his primary receiver. He looked right late and threw as he was hit. But Johnson was wide open on the play (terrible coverage by the Vikings).
McConkey wasn't open on the TD above. Simms just threw a perfect pass.
Was the 4th-and-17 pass the more important pass? Of course.
loved this throw from Simms in the 1986 playoff game against the 49ers. Phil threw two TDs in this game where he got absolutely clobbered on the play... (1:15:04 mark) 1986 NFC Divisional - 49ers vs. Giants - ( New Window )
certainly didn’t win the division. We were already up by 10 with the D dominating. The game wasn’t as close as the score indicated.
We don’t win that Seattle game(4th and 17 pass which allowed a GW FG) we come in to Washington 10-3
Re-watch the first half of the game. It was closer than you think. The Giants caught two huge breaks in the first half. The game easily could have been 7-7 (or worse) at the half.
The Giants took control in the 3rd quarter, but it was that pass that sealed the deal.
Again and for the last time, we were up by 10 and were dominating on D at that point and really in no danger of losing. A FG would have been fine. Their (Wash.) last TD was meaningless and made in the waning moments.
Nothing is guaranteed, but the Skins were not beating us that day in 60 minutes. A Seattle loss brings us in at 10-3..Simms’ Wash. throw, put us up by 17 instead of by 13. We could have played another 60 minutes and it wouldn’t have mattered.
His early career he had no talent around him. His middle career he played in a run oriented offense with little receiving talent and a line built to drive block, not pass protect. His late career he got screwed by Handley. And his career ended prematurely when the advent of the salary cap led to his release.
Despite all that, he posted some impressive numbers for his era. Always wonder how he would have fared with the 49ers. Bill Walsh was intending to draft him if he was available - he settled for Montana instead.
2nd half comeback in San Francisco the prior Monday night. They went into Washington and beat a really good Skins team on a short week after a west coast trip
We lost Terry Kinard for the season in the 3rd quarter of this game and we had no idea if Herb Welch could handle the starting position.
Schroeder and Clark tore up the Giants secondary in the 3rd and 4th quarter in October. They scored 17 unanswered points on the Giants to tie the game in the 4th quarter.
Look at the body language of the Redskins after McConkey scored. They knew the game was over. If they hold us to a field goal there, different game.
Same outcome? Perhaps. But that pass ended it.
RE: Also notable, that win came after the Giants epic
2nd half comeback in San Francisco the prior Monday night. They went into Washington and beat a really good Skins team on a short week after a west coast trip
^^^THIS^^^
The fact that we just played an emotional Monday night game on the West Coast and had to face the Redskins at RFK at a short week in the most important game of the year scared the hell out of me.
Simms made an even better throw earlier in the game. Just before halftime when the game was tied at 7-7 the Giants were faced with a third and long and Simms hit Bobby Johnson with a perfect deep pass between the defender and the sideline (think Manning-to-Manningham in SBXLVI) to pick up the first down and set up a TD pass to put the Giants up 14-7. Joe Gibbs said he thought that was the play of the game.
Simms made an even better throw earlier in the game. Just before halftime when the game was tied at 7-7 the Giants were faced with a third and long and Simms hit Bobby Johnson with a perfect deep pass between the defender and the sideline (think Manning-to-Manningham in SBXLVI) to pick up the first down and set up a TD pass to put the Giants up 14-7. Joe Gibbs said he thought that was the play of the game.
I was a freshman in college in 1986 and my dorm room was plastered with newspaper photos from the NYP and NYDN. But I also had THAT picture from the WP on my wall!
these two teams HATED each other. Just one example at the 14:55 mark.
I saw these two teams play a charity basketball in college the following offseason and they almost got into a fight on the basketball court.
Benson got in Manley's head that game. A lot of the build-up prior to the game was the race for the NFL lead in sacks between LT and Manley. LT got three on Schroeder and Manley was shut-out by Benson.
Brad Benson is still the only OL to ever receive a Player of the Week award.
I watched this game yesterday (can you tell I'm bored?) and I told my wife, who was reading a book, that Benson was the only lineman ever to win that honor because of this game.
I watched this game yesterday (can you tell I'm bored?) and I told my wife, who was reading a book, that Benson was the only lineman ever to win that honor because of this game.
She was not impressed and kept reading.
Haha! Too funny.
I watched the MNF game at San Francisco yesterday and Giants Among Men.
They were far from prolific. I know there were a lot of injury issues through most of the season, but those guys dropped a ton of passes. Simms was never gun shy though, he took his shots and in big-game situations they remarkably came through. It started with 4th-and-17 at Missesota. The next week Simms hit McConkey with a 45-yard pass on third down to set up the winning FG against Denver. Then at SF Simms was a machine in the 3rd quarter dropping dimes to Stacy Robisnon. For all the struggles through most of the season and getting booed at home, Simms never flinched.
It was so exciting and brand new to all of us that had to wait so long for a championship. It was my favorite year. That was the year that I went to my first and only giant game in 1986 versus the Dallas Cowboys. I remember call banks breaking Danny White’s wrist which I can visualize clearly. That was quite a hit.
They were far from prolific. I know there were a lot of injury issues through most of the season, but those guys dropped a ton of passes. Simms was never gun shy though, he took his shots and in big-game situations they remarkably came through. It started with 4th-and-17 at Missesota. The next week Simms hit McConkey with a 45-yard pass on third down to set up the winning FG against Denver. Then at SF Simms was a machine in the 3rd quarter dropping dimes to Stacy Robisnon. For all the struggles through most of the season and getting booed at home, Simms never flinched.
One of the biggest plays in this Redskins game was Solomon Miller recovering Joe Morris' fumble. How the Giants got that ball back was a bit of a miracle.
One of the biggest plays in this Redskins game was Solomon Miller recovering Joe Morris' fumble. How the Giants got that ball back was a bit of a miracle.
Regarding Solomon Miller, I think the first time we met (almost 25 years ago), you asked me some trivia question and the answer was Solomon Miller.
You probably know this one... there was a Giants game where in the pregame show they had Giants fans complaining about Phil Simms and saying he can't win the big one. What game was that?
One of the biggest plays in this Redskins game was Solomon Miller recovering Joe Morris' fumble. How the Giants got that ball back was a bit of a miracle.
Regarding Solomon Miller, I think the first time we met (almost 25 years ago), you asked me some trivia question and the answer was Solomon Miller.
You probably know this one... there was a Giants game where in the pregame show they had Giants fans complaining about Phil Simms and saying he can't win the big one. What game was that?
All of them! ;-)
The majority of Giants fans did not appreciate Simms until after 22-25-268-3-0 happened.
I hadn't thought about that game (original post) in a long time, but I instantly recalled that throw. In general, Benson earned his money just for his play against Manley alone.
was to keep games close in the first half and dominate in the 3rd quarter. With Parcells, Earhardt, and Belichick there was no better team in the league at making in game adjustments, particularly at half time. Afew of those years they had ridiculously lopsided 3rd quarter stats, fueled mainly by the D really stepping it up.
I hadn't thought about that game (original post) in a long time, but I instantly recalled that throw. In general, Benson earned his money just for his play against Manley alone.
Did you remember that LT and Manley came into that game tied for the league lead in sacks? I didn't.
Waiter station working at tortilla Flats in Laguna Beach looking on a small tv. When he hit it I knew we were going to go to the SB . That’s the pass
I know a ton of Giants fans who feel they knew we were going to the Super Bowl after that game, but I know at the time I still didn't feel that way. We had to play Denver the following week (we won that game late with Simms to McConkey pass), go to San Fran (where we fell behind 17-0 before Bavaro sparked the team), and then had to play this Redskins team.
The Giants fans I knew and myself were all worried about keeping pace with the Redskins until we faced them at RFK and the the Denver and San Fran games looked like possible losses at the time.
listen to Phil's long answer because he eventually talks about that clip.
Thank you Eric! Great Q&A with Phil.
Haven't found the actual clip yet.
I have it on an old VHS, but the quality sucks. I used to record Giants games on Beta and transferred them to VHS decades ago and you can imagine that it didn't transfer well.
The funny thing is Phil knew exactly what clip I was asking about and was still ticked off about it.
Loved the way he played the game, hence the handle.
Never had really prolific receivers, except perhaps Bavaro. Running the ball and physical Defensive Football was the name of the game then and low scoring slugfests were en Vogue. Our passing game was perfect for the era and Phil was the ideal QB to execute it.
I remember thinking the Giants have played so well this season, yet finally Nd themselves having to sweep Washington at home to insure the best record and home field advantage.
The Giants dominated that game but it was only a 10 pt lead up to that touchdown throw.
Did you see Phil s reaction. I loved that guy, and consider him the best Giants quarterback ever. I get why the younger guys think it s Eli, But I wonder if they had seen Simms play if they would feel the same.
listen I warmed up to Simms and learned to love him
Get why a thread about a player (Simms in this instance) can't just be about that player. There seems to be a need for other's to inject why they think another player was better which just leads to fans dissing one great franchise player to prop up their own.
Get why a thread about a player (Simms in this instance) can't just be about that player. There seems to be a need for other's to inject why they think another player was better which just leads to fans dissing one great franchise player to prop up their own.
There are some here that state in absolute terms Eli is greatest Giants quarterback ever. I guess this clipped stirred up memories of why I don’t think that s a given.
I love Eli, would never diss him, seems you re very sensitive about this, there was no intent on my part to Bogart the thread, my apologies.
I hadn't thought about that game (original post) in a long time, but I instantly recalled that throw. In general, Benson earned his money just for his play against Manley alone.
Did you remember that LT and Manley came into that game tied for the league lead in sacks? I didn't.
Yup, that was part of the billing, the top 2 sack guys. LT got 3 and Dexter was shut out. What was annoying for LT was that the next week game against the Cardinals, the Giants registered a (then) team record of 9 sacks of Neil Lomax. The Cardinals were so concerned that LT would break the sack record in that game that they more or less were triple teaming him all game to avoid it, and the rest of the team beat up Lomax. LT did get through one time and Lomax took an intentional grounding to avoid it.
And you guys were talking about the gauntlet the Giants went through. Yes, they played on the short week, cross country flight after the Niners win on Monday night. The week before the Niners win was the game vs. the Broncos. The week before that was the Vikings' 4th and 17. So they had a stretch in the death period of the season (and no bye weeks in 1986) where they played 3 of 4 games on the road and the one home game was against the would be AFC Champions. That 1986 team, to paraphase John Houseman "They earned it".
Get why a thread about a player (Simms in this instance) can't just be about that player. There seems to be a need for other's to inject why they think another player was better which just leads to fans dissing one great franchise player to prop up their own.
There are some here that state in absolute terms Eli is greatest Giants quarterback ever. I guess this clipped stirred up memories of why I don’t think that s a given.
I love Eli, would never diss him, seems you re very sensitive about this, there was no intent on my part to Bogart the thread, my apologies.
And Parcells saying to him "Simms they hate us here in DC so much they like us". Perfect comment. As heated as that rivalry was, I miss RFK. They always say that place shook. I went to the Monday night opener in '88 and no joke, When Monte Coleman had a pick 6 that place was shaking. Thank God Phil, Odessa Turner and Raul Allegre took care of business...
but he had awful injury luck. He's way underrated by most Giant fans. This thread has one of the dumbest comments i've ever read here and that's saying something.
1986 > 1990, 2007 & 2011 combined.
In the Super Bowl era the only season the Giants were the best team in the NFL was 1986.
into labor with our first child. We were living in Orlando at the time, and I had a friend who had one of those new-fangled satellite dishes who helped me to see all of the Giants games. He promised to tape the game for me. Priorities. Each phone call from my family in Jersey began with, "don't tell me the score - nope, no baby yet." The baby arrived at 10:30 that night After kissing mother and child goodbye, I hightailed it to my friend's house to get my game tape. Needless to say, the game was a satisfying end to a once in a lifetime day. Still have that VHS tape as well as the wife and daughter, Giants fans all.
RE: RE: Love Simms remembering standing in the tunnel at RFK
And Parcells saying to him "Simms they hate us here in DC so much they like us". Perfect comment. As heated as that rivalry was, I miss RFK. They always say that place shook. I went to the Monday night opener in '88 and no joke, When Monte Coleman had a pick 6 that place was shaking. Thank God Phil, Odessa Turner and Raul Allegre took care of business...
That was 89
yep you're right! I got the years mixed up. They opend up 2 years in a row vs the Skins '88 and '89.
I saw these two teams play a charity basketball in college the following offseason and they almost got into a fight on the basketball court.
Not really. The Giants and Redskins were still tied at 11-2 in Week 14.
What 4th-and-17 did was make sure the Giants didn't fall behind the Redskins. Same with the 49er game in Week 13 where we fell behind 17-0.
That was also a great and critical pass. My favorite because I was there in Minn and couldn’t watch the FG attempt. The three of us, wife, son and I, flew back home happy.
We don’t win that Seattle game(4th and 17 pass which allowed a GW FG) we come in to Washington 10-3
(1:15:04 mark) 1986 NFC Divisional - 49ers vs. Giants - ( New Window )
We don’t win that Seattle game(4th and 17 pass which allowed a GW FG) we come in to Washington 10-3
Re-watch the first half of the game. It was closer than you think. The Giants caught two huge breaks in the first half. The game easily could have been 7-7 (or worse) at the half.
The Giants took control in the 3rd quarter, but it was that pass that sealed the deal.
That was also a great and critical pass. My favorite because I was there in Minn and couldn’t watch the FG attempt. The three of us, wife, son and I, flew back home happy.
The 4th-and-17 throw was impressive because Simms got clobbered on the play and Johnson wasn't his primary receiver. He looked right late and threw as he was hit. But Johnson was wide open on the play (terrible coverage by the Vikings).
McConkey wasn't open on the TD above. Simms just threw a perfect pass.
Was the 4th-and-17 pass the more important pass? Of course.
That was another great pass.
Quote:
certainly didn’t win the division. We were already up by 10 with the D dominating. The game wasn’t as close as the score indicated.
We don’t win that Seattle game(4th and 17 pass which allowed a GW FG) we come in to Washington 10-3
Re-watch the first half of the game. It was closer than you think. The Giants caught two huge breaks in the first half. The game easily could have been 7-7 (or worse) at the half.
The Giants took control in the 3rd quarter, but it was that pass that sealed the deal.
Again and for the last time, we were up by 10 and were dominating on D at that point and really in no danger of losing. A FG would have been fine. Their (Wash.) last TD was meaningless and made in the waning moments.
Nothing is guaranteed, but the Skins were not beating us that day in 60 minutes. A Seattle loss brings us in at 10-3..Simms’ Wash. throw, put us up by 17 instead of by 13. We could have played another 60 minutes and it wouldn’t have mattered.
Despite all that, he posted some impressive numbers for his era. Always wonder how he would have fared with the 49ers. Bill Walsh was intending to draft him if he was available - he settled for Montana instead.
We lost Terry Kinard for the season in the 3rd quarter of this game and we had no idea if Herb Welch could handle the starting position.
Schroeder and Clark tore up the Giants secondary in the 3rd and 4th quarter in October. They scored 17 unanswered points on the Giants to tie the game in the 4th quarter.
Look at the body language of the Redskins after McConkey scored. They knew the game was over. If they hold us to a field goal there, different game.
Same outcome? Perhaps. But that pass ended it.
^^^THIS^^^
The fact that we just played an emotional Monday night game on the West Coast and had to face the Redskins at RFK at a short week in the most important game of the year scared the hell out of me.
- played outdoors, cold weather, in a stadium famous for swirling wind
https://i.imgur.com/CNmt8IP.png
Simms made an even better throw earlier in the game. Just before halftime when the game was tied at 7-7 the Giants were faced with a third and long and Simms hit Bobby Johnson with a perfect deep pass between the defender and the sideline (think Manning-to-Manningham in SBXLVI) to pick up the first down and set up a TD pass to put the Giants up 14-7. Joe Gibbs said he thought that was the play of the game.
https://i.imgur.com/CNmt8IP.png
Simms made an even better throw earlier in the game. Just before halftime when the game was tied at 7-7 the Giants were faced with a third and long and Simms hit Bobby Johnson with a perfect deep pass between the defender and the sideline (think Manning-to-Manningham in SBXLVI) to pick up the first down and set up a TD pass to put the Giants up 14-7. Joe Gibbs said he thought that was the play of the game.
I was a freshman in college in 1986 and my dorm room was plastered with newspaper photos from the NYP and NYDN. But I also had THAT picture from the WP on my wall!
That said, I felt about the McConkey pass in this game like I did about the Joe Morris TD run in the second half of the Super Bowl. THIS GAME IS OVER!
I saw these two teams play a charity basketball in college the following offseason and they almost got into a fight on the basketball court.
Benson got in Manley's head that game. A lot of the build-up prior to the game was the race for the NFL lead in sacks between LT and Manley. LT got three on Schroeder and Manley was shut-out by Benson.
Brad Benson is still the only OL to ever receive a Player of the Week award.
She was not impressed and kept reading.
She was not impressed and kept reading.
Haha! Too funny.
I watched the MNF game at San Francisco yesterday and Giants Among Men.
There's nothing boring about the 1986 Giants! :-)
I think he did, that's hysterical.
One of the biggest plays in this Redskins game was Solomon Miller recovering Joe Morris' fumble. How the Giants got that ball back was a bit of a miracle.
Quote:
One of the biggest plays in this Redskins game was Solomon Miller recovering Joe Morris' fumble. How the Giants got that ball back was a bit of a miracle.
Regarding Solomon Miller, I think the first time we met (almost 25 years ago), you asked me some trivia question and the answer was Solomon Miller.
You probably know this one... there was a Giants game where in the pregame show they had Giants fans complaining about Phil Simms and saying he can't win the big one. What game was that?
Quote:
In comment 14909876 truebluelarry said:
Quote:
One of the biggest plays in this Redskins game was Solomon Miller recovering Joe Morris' fumble. How the Giants got that ball back was a bit of a miracle.
Regarding Solomon Miller, I think the first time we met (almost 25 years ago), you asked me some trivia question and the answer was Solomon Miller.
You probably know this one... there was a Giants game where in the pregame show they had Giants fans complaining about Phil Simms and saying he can't win the big one. What game was that?
All of them! ;-)
The majority of Giants fans did not appreciate Simms until after 22-25-268-3-0 happened.
BTW, I instantly thought of you when I typed Miller's name!
BBI Online Live – Guests Phil Simms and Amani Toomer - ( New Window )
Did you remember that LT and Manley came into that game tied for the league lead in sacks? I didn't.
I know a ton of Giants fans who feel they knew we were going to the Super Bowl after that game, but I know at the time I still didn't feel that way. We had to play Denver the following week (we won that game late with Simms to McConkey pass), go to San Fran (where we fell behind 17-0 before Bavaro sparked the team), and then had to play this Redskins team.
The Giants fans I knew and myself were all worried about keeping pace with the Redskins until we faced them at RFK and the the Denver and San Fran games looked like possible losses at the time.
Thank you Eric! Great Q&A with Phil.
Haven't found the actual clip yet.
Quote:
listen to Phil's long answer because he eventually talks about that clip.
Thank you Eric! Great Q&A with Phil.
Haven't found the actual clip yet.
I have it on an old VHS, but the quality sucks. I used to record Giants games on Beta and transferred them to VHS decades ago and you can imagine that it didn't transfer well.
The funny thing is Phil knew exactly what clip I was asking about and was still ticked off about it.
Never had really prolific receivers, except perhaps Bavaro. Running the ball and physical Defensive Football was the name of the game then and low scoring slugfests were en Vogue. Our passing game was perfect for the era and Phil was the ideal QB to execute it.
The Giants dominated that game but it was only a 10 pt lead up to that touchdown throw.
Did you see Phil s reaction. I loved that guy, and consider him the best Giants quarterback ever. I get why the younger guys think it s Eli, But I wonder if they had seen Simms play if they would feel the same.
There are some here that state in absolute terms Eli is greatest Giants quarterback ever. I guess this clipped stirred up memories of why I don’t think that s a given.
I love Eli, would never diss him, seems you re very sensitive about this, there was no intent on my part to Bogart the thread, my apologies.
Quote:
I hadn't thought about that game (original post) in a long time, but I instantly recalled that throw. In general, Benson earned his money just for his play against Manley alone.
Did you remember that LT and Manley came into that game tied for the league lead in sacks? I didn't.
Yup, that was part of the billing, the top 2 sack guys. LT got 3 and Dexter was shut out. What was annoying for LT was that the next week game against the Cardinals, the Giants registered a (then) team record of 9 sacks of Neil Lomax. The Cardinals were so concerned that LT would break the sack record in that game that they more or less were triple teaming him all game to avoid it, and the rest of the team beat up Lomax. LT did get through one time and Lomax took an intentional grounding to avoid it.
And you guys were talking about the gauntlet the Giants went through. Yes, they played on the short week, cross country flight after the Niners win on Monday night. The week before the Niners win was the game vs. the Broncos. The week before that was the Vikings' 4th and 17. So they had a stretch in the death period of the season (and no bye weeks in 1986) where they played 3 of 4 games on the road and the one home game was against the would be AFC Champions. That 1986 team, to paraphase John Houseman "They earned it".
Quote:
Get why a thread about a player (Simms in this instance) can't just be about that player. There seems to be a need for other's to inject why they think another player was better which just leads to fans dissing one great franchise player to prop up their own.
There are some here that state in absolute terms Eli is greatest Giants quarterback ever. I guess this clipped stirred up memories of why I don’t think that s a given.
I love Eli, would never diss him, seems you re very sensitive about this, there was no intent on my part to Bogart the thread, my apologies.
You're assuming I'm talking about you, No?
That was 89
1986 > 1990, 2007 & 2011 combined.
In the Super Bowl era the only season the Giants were the best team in the NFL was 1986.
Yep. c'mon up tp Connecticut :-)
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And Parcells saying to him "Simms they hate us here in DC so much they like us". Perfect comment. As heated as that rivalry was, I miss RFK. They always say that place shook. I went to the Monday night opener in '88 and no joke, When Monte Coleman had a pick 6 that place was shaking. Thank God Phil, Odessa Turner and Raul Allegre took care of business...
That was 89
yep you're right! I got the years mixed up. They opend up 2 years in a row vs the Skins '88 and '89.