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Am I the only one annoyed with the Kyler Murray lovefest?

JoeyBigBlue : 5/24/2020 8:53 pm
Case in point this Bucky Brooks article. I saw nothing in Kyler Murray to make me think he’ll win an MVP in year two. I saw a very conservative play calls with short passes. Why are analyst so high on this kid? He has Hopkins now, which is a big get but Larry Fitz is washed and Christian Kirk can’t stay healthy.


Bucky Brooks: Kyler Murray will win 2020 NFL MVP - ( New Window )
I thought..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/24/2020 8:58 pm : link
Murray was the 3rd or 4th best rookie QB last season and yet he was Rookie of the Year.

He's not terrible, but I don't see greatness in him.
RE: I thought..  
JoeyBigBlue : 5/24/2020 9:02 pm : link
In comment 14910070 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
Murray was the 3rd or 4th best rookie QB last season and yet he was Rookie of the Year.

He's not terrible, but I don't see greatness in him.


He stole that award from Josh Jacobs, but he plays the sexy position.
I thought DJ had a better season, fumbles & all.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/24/2020 9:08 pm : link
But that's me.
Stats...  
Dukie Dimes : 5/24/2020 9:32 pm : link
He lists all of Murray’s stats as being some of the best ever for a rookie, but the truth is that he started all 16 games. That’s not very common for a rookie QB. By using total stats rather than averages per game, he is manipulating the stats to make his argument. In fact, he lists Murray’s total completions as third most all-time. If Jones’ 12 games stats are extrapolated out to 16 like the number of games Murray started, Jones flies past Murray’s achievement. In fact, Jones ties the all-time rookie record.

Also, theIr defense being a sieve helped Murray out unlike what the writer claims, Murray got more possessions and more throwing opportunities because of the bad defense and always having to play from behind, Jones benefited from this as well.
He is the next BobIII, the Cards will be looking for a new qb next  
Jack Stroud : 5/24/2020 9:48 pm : link
season.
Kyler Murray had a very nice rookie season  
twostepgiants : 5/24/2020 10:53 pm : link
I don’t get all the negativity about him last year or now on this thread. He played well.
RE: Kyler Murray had a very nice rookie season  
Dukie Dimes : 5/24/2020 10:58 pm : link
In comment 14910099 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
I don’t get all the negativity about him last year or now on this thread. He played well.


I don’t think he’s a bad QB. But this guy is saying that he’ll be the MVP of the whole league next year. It’s a pretty bold assertion.
RE: Stats...  
dslayton86 : 5/24/2020 11:35 pm : link
In comment 14910084 Dukie Dimes said:
Quote:
He lists all of Murray’s stats as being some of the best ever for a rookie, but the truth is that he started all 16 games. That’s not very common for a rookie QB. By using total stats rather than averages per game, he is manipulating the stats to make his argument. In fact, he lists Murray’s total completions as third most all-time. If Jones’ 12 games stats are extrapolated out to 16 like the number of games Murray started, Jones flies past Murray’s achievement. In fact, Jones ties the all-time rookie record.

Also, theIr defense being a sieve helped Murray out unlike what the writer claims, Murray got more possessions and more throwing opportunities because of the bad defense and always having to play from behind, Jones benefited from this as well.


Great post.
Brooks is making a prediction  
bluepepper : 5/24/2020 11:48 pm : link
It's not that crazy because, as he points out, the last 2 MVP's were second year QB's who made huge leaps and surprised everyone. I'm hoping he's got the right idea but is wrong about which 2nd year QB.
PFF  
shyster : 5/25/2020 12:17 am : link
Josh Jacobs 87.1
Dwayne Haskins 67.6
Daniel Jones 65.7
Kyler Murray 64.2
...  
christian : 5/25/2020 12:54 am : link
The Cardinals couldn't protect Murray. He had less time to throw the ball per drop back than Jones or Haskins.

He had a total of 14 turnovers combined in 16 games. Jones had 23 in basically 12. Murray had a higher completion percentage, yards gained per attempt, and was dead even with Jones in yards per game.

Jones had the leg up on TDs and yards per rush attempt.

I think their seasons were actually pretty comparable.
I think Murray is at best a system QB  
Breeze_94 : 5/25/2020 3:11 am : link
He needs alot of things done schematically to help him since he is not the best pocket passer and is very diminutive. But that is okay in todays NFL. Put him in the right system and he can thrive.

Jones and Murray were pretty close, but Jones did have that fumbling  
Ira : 5/25/2020 4:35 am : link
issue. It'll be interesting to see which has the better second season.
I am happy we have Daniel Jones.  
George from PA : 5/25/2020 6:21 am : link
I am sure Arzonia is happy they have Murphy....i am sure some of the hyperbol has to do with getting Hoplins....good for him.

Who cares?

I do not.....unless they are in the Giants way.
Not annoyed by it,  
section125 : 5/25/2020 7:16 am : link
but I thought Jones was the better QB..
Saw a stat  
XBRONX : 5/25/2020 7:34 am : link
thet Murray threw 14 passes over 30 yards in the air and 12 of the passes were accurate.Jones threw 16 over 30 yards in the air and was accurate on 7. I know just one stat, but I thought it was interesting.
Not sure this constitutes a lovefest for Murray.  
LBH15 : 5/25/2020 7:44 am : link
Don’t worry, there is a ton more media coverage on Daniel Jones in the NYC metro area to help you get through your outrage.
I wouldn’t trade DJ  
joeinpa : 5/25/2020 8:16 am : link
For any of the quarterbacks drafted the last three seasons.

RE: I think Murray is at best a system QB  
Mike from Ohio : 5/25/2020 8:24 am : link
In comment 14910147 Breeze_94 said:
Quote:
He needs alot of things done schematically to help him since he is not the best pocket passer and is very diminutive. But that is okay in todays NFL. Put him in the right system and he can thrive.


What does the term ‘system QB’ mean? They designed the offense to take advantage of what he does best, which is what a good staff does. If you have an immobile pocket passer, you design the system differently.

The colts didn’t ask Peyton Manning to run many draws or keepers to keep the defense honest. He was strictly a drop back passer. He likely wouldn’t be effective in the system Arizona runs, Does that make Peyton Manning a system QB?

An effective coach emphasizes what his players do best. The offense should be tailored to their strengths. Not sure why that is a knock.
Murray is really good  
BillT : 5/25/2020 8:27 am : link
MVP is quite a prediction but it gets people reading the article. I think Jones is really good as well. They both can be very good and running down Murray doesn’t make Jones better. Murray had a terrific rookie season. I’m glad to have Jones.
Don't agree  
Gruber : 5/25/2020 8:56 am : link
What I saw of Kyler Murray impressed me. He seemed to throw accurately with ease and was very mobile in the pocket. He has a higher upside than Daniel Jones, more natural talent, but that is not the be all and end all. What I really like about Daniel Jones is just how he doesn't seem fazed by pressure. But Jones has to reduce the giveaways or all the positives will count for little.
RE: Brooks is making a prediction  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 5/25/2020 9:52 am : link
In comment 14910117 bluepepper said:
Quote:
It's not that crazy because, as he points out, the last 2 MVP's were second year QB's who made huge leaps and surprised everyone. I'm hoping he's got the right idea but is wrong about which 2nd year QB.

Pretty stupid analysis on the part of Brooks.

He looks like Gary Coleman out there!
The lil fella can play some, but he'll wash out  
Optimus-NY : 5/25/2020 10:12 am : link
Midget QBs don't last in the NFL. Not For Long as Jerry Glanville used to say...
RE: The lil fella can play some, but he'll wash out  
Mike from Ohio : 5/25/2020 11:01 am : link
In comment 14910224 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
Midget QBs don't last in the NFL. Not For Long as Jerry Glanville used to say...


Yeah Drew Brees really didn’t accomplish much. Or is the 2” difference between Brees and Murray the determinant.
No.  
BigBlueinDE : 5/25/2020 11:12 am : link
Not at all.
I want everyone to know that I’m not knocking Murray  
JoeyBigBlue : 5/25/2020 11:15 am : link
I think his upside is very good and he will be a force for many years to come. My issue is that he is being elevated to MVP consideration, when I think he’s still a few years away from it. From what I saw of him, the offense he ran was on training wheels. Short passes, and designed runs for him.
RE: The lil fella can play some, but he'll wash out  
JoeyBigBlue : 5/25/2020 11:16 am : link
In comment 14910224 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
Midget QBs don't last in the NFL. Not For Long as Jerry Glanville used to say...


Russell Wilson is 1” taller than him and he’s a top 3 QB in the league. That’s not a fair statement at all.
Wilson is built differently  
BigBlueCane : 5/25/2020 11:21 am : link
and has better coaching.
RE: Wilson is built differently  
JoeyBigBlue : 5/25/2020 11:22 am : link
In comment 14910255 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
and has better coaching.


That’s true but Murray has more arm talent than Wilson IMO. He has a great arm for a guy so small.
RE: RE: The lil fella can play some, but he'll wash out  
Optimus-NY : 5/25/2020 11:25 am : link
In comment 14910252 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 14910224 Optimus-NY said:


Quote:


Midget QBs don't last in the NFL. Not For Long as Jerry Glanville used to say...



Russell Wilson is 1” taller than him and he’s a top 3 QB in the league. That’s not a fair statement at all.


They're not the same. Wilson stays out of trouble.
RE: I want everyone to know that I’m not knocking Murray  
LBH15 : 5/25/2020 11:27 am : link
In comment 14910247 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
I think his upside is very good and he will be a force for many years to come. My issue is that he is being elevated to MVP consideration, when I think he’s still a few years away from it. From what I saw of him, the offense he ran was on training wheels. Short passes, and designed runs for him.


Well he had a good first year with training wheels on. Maybe he is ready for bigger and better. If you think his upside is very good and a force, and potential MVP in a few years then not sure your OP is aligned.
RE: RE: I want everyone to know that I’m not knocking Murray  
JoeyBigBlue : 5/25/2020 11:29 am : link
In comment 14910261 LBH15 said:
Quote:
In comment 14910247 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


I think his upside is very good and he will be a force for many years to come. My issue is that he is being elevated to MVP consideration, when I think he’s still a few years away from it. From what I saw of him, the offense he ran was on training wheels. Short passes, and designed runs for him.



Well he had a good first year with training wheels on. Maybe he is ready for bigger and better. If you think his upside is very good and a force, and potential MVP in a few years then not sure your OP is aligned.



A few years and way and next year aren’t the same thing.
RE: RE: RE: I want everyone to know that I’m not knocking Murray  
JoeyBigBlue : 5/25/2020 11:30 am : link
In comment 14910262 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 14910261 LBH15 said:


Quote:


In comment 14910247 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


I think his upside is very good and he will be a force for many years to come. My issue is that he is being elevated to MVP consideration, when I think he’s still a few years away from it. From what I saw of him, the offense he ran was on training wheels. Short passes, and designed runs for him.



Well he had a good first year with training wheels on. Maybe he is ready for bigger and better. If you think his upside is very good and a force, and potential MVP in a few years then not sure your OP is aligned.




A few years and way and next year aren’t the same thing.


A few years away and next year aren’t the same thing.*
No they aren’t. And I wouldn’t think he wins the MVP  
LBH15 : 5/25/2020 11:47 am : link
in year 2 either. But you also don’t seem to debate Brooks’ assessment and upside on Murray, only his timeframe. Nor is one article a lovefest, so what are we really disputing here?
Meh. Who cares?  
Klaatu : 5/25/2020 11:48 am : link
Individual achievements are nice for individuals, but teams win championships, and championships are what it's all about.

Do you think Ravens fans would trade Jackson's MVP for another Lombardi Trophy? I think they would. I know I would if I was a Ravens fan.

Let anyone who wants to slobber all over Murray, or any other QB. Last team standing is all that matters to me.

I get nowhere unless the team wins. - ( New Window )
RE: No they aren’t. And I wouldn’t think he wins the MVP  
JoeyBigBlue : 5/25/2020 12:07 pm : link
In comment 14910274 LBH15 said:
Quote:
in year 2 either. But you also don’t seem to debate Brooks’ assessment and upside on Murray, only his timeframe. Nor is one article a lovefest, so what are we really disputing here?


I just see multiple NFL analyst proclaiming this kid as a franchise QB after a 1 season. Now Brooks is saying that he can be a MVP winner in year 2. Jones had just as good a rookie season, and no one is as high on Jones as Murray. Only hardcore Giants fans.
SFGFNCGF: thought DJ had a better season, fumbles & all. But that's me  
Torrag : 5/25/2020 12:15 pm : link
And you would be correct sir.

Both played behind bad O-lines. Jones arguably lost his two most talented weapons for big chunks of the season in Barkley and Engram.

As pointed out the stats comparison is a straw man argument as Brooks didn't account for games played in his analysis. DJ would have surpassed Murray's numbers with ease over 16 starts.

I'm fine with people liking and being positive about Murray's season and future but to elevate him as some have and are doesn't compute logically.



It is strange  
TJ : 5/25/2020 12:23 pm : link
And the high grade the team got for spending a top 10 pick in consecutive years on qb was strange too.
RE: It is strange  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 5/25/2020 4:42 pm : link
In comment 14910295 TJ said:
Quote:
And the high grade the team got for spending a top 10 pick in consecutive years on qb was strange too.

You wouldn't hear the end of it if the Giants did that.

Meanwhile Kingsbury and his Fantasy Football style player acquisition gets praised by the dopes in media.
RE: RE: No they aren’t. And I wouldn’t think he wins the MVP  
LBH15 : 5/25/2020 5:48 pm : link
In comment 14910284 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 14910274 LBH15 said:


Quote:


in year 2 either. But you also don’t seem to debate Brooks’ assessment and upside on Murray, only his timeframe. Nor is one article a lovefest, so what are we really disputing here?



I just see multiple NFL analyst proclaiming this kid as a franchise QB after a 1 season. Now Brooks is saying that he can be a MVP winner in year 2. Jones had just as good a rookie season, and no one is as high on Jones as Murray. Only hardcore Giants fans.


That’s BS. Lots of folks in football world are high on Jones. Who if can get the fumble problem under control, has a bright future.

And you keep saying you’re not dissing Murray but that is exactly what you are doing. And from what I can tell it’s because you are bringing in your emotional feelings about the Giants and Jones and some feeling that the sports media doesn’t give them both enough respect...a common yet silly theme seen on BBI.

But back to Murray and his trajectory as a franchise QB. In the last two years Murray has only won the Heisman Trophy, been selected overall #1 in NFL Draft, started at QB since day 1, had very solid stats both passing and running the ball, added a few more wins to the team’s total versus prior year and then won Offensive Rookie of the Year.

Logic should tell you that Murray is doing everything expected of him, and that has nothing to do with Daniel Jones.

Ok?
RE: He is the next BobIII, the Cards will be looking for a new qb next  
djm : 5/25/2020 7:22 pm : link
In comment 14910089 Jack Stroud said:
Quote:
season.


Yeah that’s not a lazy generalization at all. Cmon dude.
RE: The lil fella can play some, but he'll wash out  
djm : 5/25/2020 7:25 pm : link
In comment 14910224 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
Midget QBs don't last in the NFL. Not For Long as Jerry Glanville used to say...


Drew Brees, Doug flutie, Russell Wilson even joe Montana wasn’t that big.
It’s not surprising how many people  
Mike from Ohio : 5/25/2020 8:14 pm : link
put zero thought into Kyler Murray. He’s a rookie QB on another team. But what is surprising is how many people feel inspired to share opinions that don’t seem to indicate that they have even seen the guy play a snap.
It's easy to tell the people that didn't watch him play that much last  
Zeke's Alibi : 5/25/2020 8:24 pm : link
year. Yes, his game is a bit limited, but what he does well he does extremely well and they've built an offense around it.

There's a ton of people here that downgraded because of his size, but he doesn't take hits. I'm more worried about DJ there because he probably took as many hits in one season as Murray will in 5. RW is very adept about using his mobility without taking too many hits as well, but Kyler just rarely takes em at all. It's interesting too watch. Remember when Eli realized he was done and just went down and ducked. Murray does the same thing but because he's smaller and much more athletic he barely gets touched.
Building an offense..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/25/2020 8:36 pm : link
around Murray likely says more about the ineptitude of Kingsbury than it says anything about Murray.

They are trying to emulate the Ravens on a team with far less talent with a completely different type of QB. Building an offense around the QB has ended a hell of a lot more coaching careers than it has lifted QB's to stardom. The guys Murray gets compared to - Wilson and Brees didn't have offenses built around them. They brought their talents at QB to the offenses they play in.
RE: RE: RE: No they aren’t. And I wouldn’t think he wins the MVP  
JoeyBigBlue : 5/25/2020 9:50 pm : link
In comment 14910456 LBH15 said:
Quote:






That’s BS. Lots of folks in football world are high on Jones. Who if can get the fumble problem under control, has a bright future.

And you keep saying you’re not dissing Murray but that is exactly what you are doing. And from what I can tell it’s because you are bringing in your emotional feelings about the Giants and Jones and some feeling that the sports media doesn’t give them both enough respect...a common yet silly theme seen on BBI.

But back to Murray and his trajectory as a franchise QB. In the last two years Murray has only won the Heisman Trophy, been selected overall #1 in NFL Draft, started at QB since day 1, had very solid stats both passing and running the ball, added a few more wins to the team’s total versus prior year and then won Offensive Rookie of the Year.

Logic should tell you that Murray is doing everything expected of him, and that has nothing to do with Daniel Jones.

Ok?



How am I dissing him? I’ve defended him on this thread on more than one occasion. I’ve already stated that he’s quite not ready to compete for the MVP just yet. Thats my opinion and it has nothing to do with Jones. Does it irk me that Murray is getting hype up and Jones isn’t, yes I want my guy to succeed to be looked as a future MVP candidate. But that has nothing to do with saying that Murray isn’t at the level yet.
I moved from NJ  
AnishPatel : 5/25/2020 10:13 pm : link
to Arizona 2 years ago. I listen to sports talk, and watched their games. He did good stuff, but damn, that love fest does annoy me. He did not do anything spectacular. However, I do agree, I think KM got too much love.
Yes it clearly irks you this article isn’t about Jones.  
LBH15 : 5/26/2020 7:44 am : link
There is a guy on BBI that argues Aaron Rodgers isn’t elite because he hasn’t even thrown for 50,000 yards yet, and Eli Manning has.
RE: I wouldn’t trade DJ  
NYG007 : 5/26/2020 9:45 am : link
In comment 14910170 joeinpa said:
Quote:
For any of the quarterbacks drafted the last three seasons.


100% agree
I'm not annoyed by it  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 5/26/2020 9:57 am : link
but he's definitely getting a little overhyped based on last season. It's like people are just assuming he'll end up the next Russell Wilson just because he was a top pick. Hopkins will help, but we'll see.

I like Jones, I wouldn't trade him for Murray. I saw Jones make too many awesome throws and see the potential. But at the same time, I disagree with those who think he had a better rookie year than Murray overall. Jones had 18 fumbles vs. Murray's 5! That's just insane and was such a clear flaw in Jones' game. Hopefully he can figure it out.
RE: It's easy to tell the people that didn't watch him play that much last  
Strahan91 : 5/26/2020 10:28 am : link
In comment 14910554 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
year. Yes, his game is a bit limited, but what he does well he does extremely well and they've built an offense around it.

There's a ton of people here that downgraded because of his size, but he doesn't take hits. I'm more worried about DJ there because he probably took as many hits in one season as Murray will in 5. RW is very adept about using his mobility without taking too many hits as well, but Kyler just rarely takes em at all. It's interesting too watch. Remember when Eli realized he was done and just went down and ducked. Murray does the same thing but because he's smaller and much more athletic he barely gets touched.

He took 48 sacks last year. Good for third amongst QB's. To say he doesn't take hits just isn't accurate. Hell, he was sacked more last year than Eli was in any one season over his career.
Murray had a good rookie season  
Prude : 5/26/2020 12:08 pm : link
So did jones. If they can both stay healthy I think you are going to see them being compared for the next 10+ years. They're both hard workers and have a ton of talent. I expect them both to take a leap in year 2. Should be fun to watch.
He came into Met life and won.  
Default : 5/26/2020 12:22 pm : link
But I guess everyone else did too
I think Murray's a decent QB  
NINEster : 5/26/2020 4:32 pm : link
but it seems that ever since Wilson became a very good QB two years ago, there's been a run on guys like Lamar, Murray, Tua, and then projecting greatness upon them so soon.

Even Mahomes wasn't projected to be on the level they're touting those other guys at least until he became the full time starter. And he had by far the best offensive coaching and supporting talent. Deshaun Watson was seen rather similarly.

All these mobile guys have arm talent but if they had average mobility like Jared Goff, I'm not sure if they're any better than Goff.

The league is now in love with these guys so they'll help them out as much as possible. But with average mobility not sure any of them are top 10.

Lamar is considered top 3 by so many analysts and yet when the playoffs come and the mobility is eliminated, he's bottom half (at best), probably bottom third. At least Kaepernick maintained a top 12 ability in January...

Mobile wins September thru Decemeber, Pocket wins in January/February.

The last 2 NFL MVPs were won  
twostepgiants : 5/26/2020 7:59 pm : link
By QBs in their 2nd year in NFL and neither had rookie seasons that made Them seem like they were obvious choices to do so

So a pundit makes a prediction looking for someone to make a similar leap, big deal?

Murray had a very nice rookie season and someone out there thinks he can make a similar leap like Mahomes and Jackson did.

It’s nit like there is a groundswell out there with this opinion. Hardly a “lovefest”
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