|
|
|
| Quote: |
| Based on Ron Chernow’s critically acclaimed 2017 biography of the same name, it’s a stirring tribute to an individual who embodied America’s finest ideals: hard work, determination, courage, resolve, and belief in democracy and equality for all, no matter the color of their skin. |
Chernow's description of Reconstruction, and the extreme measures Grant was forced to take to prevent the Confederacy from taking back the Union's so hard fought victory, at such a cost (it did), blew my mind.
If you haven't read it, pick up his Memoirs. Fascinating.
Chernow's description of Reconstruction, and the extreme measures Grant was forced to take to prevent the Confederacy from taking back the Union's so hard fought victory, at such a cost (it did), blew my mind.
Grant likely undertook the only successful strategy against Lee, a attritional grind it out strategy against Lee defending the shorter interior lines with numerous perpendicular rivers flowing into the Chesepeake bay.
If you haven't read it, pick up his Memoirs. Fascinating.
I still have a ways to go (35% remains unread). It has been a gripping trip. Sent me off into long stuff about Reconstruction and legal developments that have rearranged my brain. How did I grow up -- New York close-in suburb, school in Connecticut, college and law school in Chicago 1954-1966 -- with no one teaching me about all this? The book just has to be read. The details are important.
I would have liked to see more of Grant in the Mexican war, but there's a lot packed into 2 hours. Don't miss it!
Anyway, looking forward to tonight. Grant working with Flag Officer Foote was the key to winning the west.
JohnF, there wasn't a ton of Mexican War material in Chernow's bio: focused on his first duties coming out of West Point and detailed much more than last night how, as Quartermaster, he was a natural at navigating the imperatives of armaments, food, cooking stations, men, horse drawn transportation, horse drawn artillery in order to achieve combat readiness. This would stand him in very good stead as he rose through the ranks in the Civil War from Commander of an all-volunteer force in Galena to General of the Union Army.
The other aspect of the Mexican War chapters I recall is that he met Stonewall Jackson (think I have it right) and Gen. Winfield Scott, observed their tactics and began stowing away this learning. The raw, naked aggression of the US in taking Mexico down and out of Texas and the Mexican Session territories was stunning, and of course the tabula rasa of those lands would figure large in the stakes of the War to come.
Like WWII - West Point 1915
Really enjoyed the Chernow book though...just finished it this past weekend at the beach. Immense details and not a quick read but worth it.
The other: as a General, he was a master of logistics and brought 'modern' communication to the fields of battle.
True, I though they would mix in more of Grant's memoirs on this war . From HistoryOnTheNet.com
He learned much from both Gen. Winfield Scott and Gen. Zachary Taylor in the Mexican war. From the same article:
From Scott’s abandoning his supply line midway through his march on Mexico City, Grant learned that an army could live off the countryside— a lesson that he applied during his 1863 Vicksburg Campaign.
Lastly, I would have liked the show to mention how Grant blasted the war afterwards, and how he tied the Mexican war to the eventual Civil war that followed:
"The Southern rebellion was largely the outgrowth of the Mexican war. Nations, like individuals, are punished for their transgressions. We got our punishment in the most sanguinary and expensive war of modern times."
Ulysses S. Grant, Memoir on the Mexican War (1885)
Still, this was fun to watch, and I'm looking forward to tonight!!
Last night's episode reruns tonight at 7PM before the 2nd eptsode airs at 9PM. They may doing that each night of the series.
One thing I remembered reading and they showed at the very end was that the common soldier and the lower grade officers were happy and exhilarated when Grant kept pushing Lee as he did not retreat. For too long they felt they were better than the Army of Northern Virginia. Back to Antietam, the soldiers were angry that McClellan broke off and did not pursue Lee.
One thing I wish they had brought up in more detail was his use of telegraph for up to date battlefield info and that the Union had a cipher key.
Started reading Chernow's book and I am flabbergasted at how much he could dig up on Grant's family, and his early years, his time at West Point and the Dent family.
At Holly Springs, Mississippi, Grant's Union Army supply depot, Jewish persons were rounded up and forced to leave the city by foot. On December 20, 1862, three days after Grant's order, Confederate Major General Earl Van Dorn's Confederate Army raided Holly Springs, that prevented many Jewish persons from potential expulsion. Although delayed by Van Dorn's raid, Grant's order was fully implemented at Paducah, Kentucky. Thirty Jewish families were expelled and roughly treated from the city. Jewish community leaders protested, and there was an outcry by members of Congress and the press; President Abraham Lincoln countermanded the General Order on January 4, 1863. Grant claimed during his 1868 Presidential campaign that he had issued the order without prejudice against Jews as a way to address a problem that "certain Jews had caused".
Quote:
General Order No. 11 was a controversial order issued by Union Major-General Ulysses S. Grant on December 17, 1862 during the Vicksburg Campaign, that took place during the American Civil War. The order expelled all Jews from Grant's military district, comprising areas of Tennessee, Mississippi, and Kentucky. Grant issued the order in an effort to reduce Union military corruption, and stop an illicit trade of Southern cotton, which Grant thought was being run "mostly by Jews and other unprincipled traders." In the war zone, authorized by the Lincoln administration, the United States licensed traders through the Army, which created a market for unlicensed ones. Union military commanders in the South were responsible for administering the trade licenses and trying to control the black market in Southern cotton, as well as for conducting the war.
At Holly Springs, Mississippi, Grant's Union Army supply depot, Jewish persons were rounded up and forced to leave the city by foot. On December 20, 1862, three days after Grant's order, Confederate Major General Earl Van Dorn's Confederate Army raided Holly Springs, that prevented many Jewish persons from potential expulsion. Although delayed by Van Dorn's raid, Grant's order was fully implemented at Paducah, Kentucky. Thirty Jewish families were expelled and roughly treated from the city. Jewish community leaders protested, and there was an outcry by members of Congress and the press; President Abraham Lincoln countermanded the General Order on January 4, 1863. Grant claimed during his 1868 Presidential campaign that he had issued the order without prejudice against Jews as a way to address a problem that "certain Jews had caused".
They didn't. First I ever heard of it. Thanks for pointing it out.
Also available, Amazon Kindle Edition for $1.99
Quote:
General Order No. 11 was a controversial order issued by Union Major-General Ulysses S. Grant on December 17, 1862 during the Vicksburg Campaign, that took place during the American Civil War. The order expelled all Jews from Grant's military district, comprising areas of Tennessee, Mississippi, and Kentucky. Grant issued the order in an effort to reduce Union military corruption, and stop an illicit trade of Southern cotton, which Grant thought was being run "mostly by Jews and other unprincipled traders." In the war zone, authorized by the Lincoln administration, the United States licensed traders through the Army, which created a market for unlicensed ones. Union military commanders in the South were responsible for administering the trade licenses and trying to control the black market in Southern cotton, as well as for conducting the war.
At Holly Springs, Mississippi, Grant's Union Army supply depot, Jewish persons were rounded up and forced to leave the city by foot. On December 20, 1862, three days after Grant's order, Confederate Major General Earl Van Dorn's Confederate Army raided Holly Springs, that prevented many Jewish persons from potential expulsion. Although delayed by Van Dorn's raid, Grant's order was fully implemented at Paducah, Kentucky. Thirty Jewish families were expelled and roughly treated from the city. Jewish community leaders protested, and there was an outcry by members of Congress and the press; President Abraham Lincoln countermanded the General Order on January 4, 1863. Grant claimed during his 1868 Presidential campaign that he had issued the order without prejudice against Jews as a way to address a problem that "certain Jews had caused".
Looking forward to tonight.
One thing I remembered reading and they showed at the very end was that the common soldier and the lower grade officers were happy and exhilarated when Grant kept pushing Lee as he did not retreat. For too long they felt they were better than the Army of Northern Virginia. Back to Antietam, the soldiers were angry that McClellan broke off and did not pursue Lee.
One thing I wish they had brought up in more detail was his use of telegraph for up to date battlefield info and that the Union had a cipher key.
Started reading Chernow's book and I am flabbergasted at how much he could dig up on Grant's family, and his early years, his time at West Point and the Dent family.
I recall the book saying the Lee knew of Grant from the Mexican war but couldn’t recall what he looked like. Or something to that effect.
Looking forward to tonight.
Me, too, as I can see the 2nd episode at a reasonable hour. I'm getting too old to stay up till 11pm.
The other: as a General, he was a master of logistics and brought 'modern' communication to the fields of battle.
It was a bit extraordinary how he moved up so quick. Lincoln’s desperation to find anybody competent helped that out I guess :-)
Grant and his organization of things once he started taking over was remarkable. It’s not like the war was centered in one spot of the country at the time, and his ability to stay ahead of the game and keep playing offense was huge. While the difference in # of men was a massive advantage, Grant showed his mastery of logistics as you stated which actually kept things efficient for the North. That war could have last years longer if not for him.
Quote:
Enjoyed the concentrated discussions around Vicksburg campaign.
Looking forward to tonight.
Me, too, as I can see the 2nd episode at a reasonable hour. I'm getting too old to stay up till 11pm.
Ha. I said the same thing after episode one...what’s wrong with an 8 pm ET start for crying out loud!
Quote:
episode. Thought there was one mistake where they had Lee implying he knew Grant when his aide declared the Union Army was retreating from the Wilderness...Lee did not know Grant personally and at Appomattox told Grant he could not recall him from the Mexican War.
One thing I remembered reading and they showed at the very end was that the common soldier and the lower grade officers were happy and exhilarated when Grant kept pushing Lee as he did not retreat. For too long they felt they were better than the Army of Northern Virginia. Back to Antietam, the soldiers were angry that McClellan broke off and did not pursue Lee.
One thing I wish they had brought up in more detail was his use of telegraph for up to date battlefield info and that the Union had a cipher key.
Started reading Chernow's book and I am flabbergasted at how much he could dig up on Grant's family, and his early years, his time at West Point and the Dent family.
I recall the book saying the Lee knew of Grant from the Mexican war but couldn’t recall what he looked like. Or something to that effect.
Lee was chief of staff for Winfield Scott. Doubt he knew some brevet 2nd LT in the Quartermaster Corps in a 10 or 15 thousand man Army. From Grant's Memoirs, I could be wrong or "misremembering", he asked Lee if he remembered him and Lee said he did not. Of course, Lee was probably humbled and upset that he was beaten by this young general, 16 years his junior and may have said it for effect.
Folklore!
Quote:
In comment 14911399 section125 said:
Quote:
episode. Thought there was one mistake where they had Lee implying he knew Grant when his aide declared the Union Army was retreating from the Wilderness...Lee did not know Grant personally and at Appomattox told Grant he could not recall him from the Mexican War.
One thing I remembered reading and they showed at the very end was that the common soldier and the lower grade officers were happy and exhilarated when Grant kept pushing Lee as he did not retreat. For too long they felt they were better than the Army of Northern Virginia. Back to Antietam, the soldiers were angry that McClellan broke off and did not pursue Lee.
One thing I wish they had brought up in more detail was his use of telegraph for up to date battlefield info and that the Union had a cipher key.
Started reading Chernow's book and I am flabbergasted at how much he could dig up on Grant's family, and his early years, his time at West Point and the Dent family.
I recall the book saying the Lee knew of Grant from the Mexican war but couldn’t recall what he looked like. Or something to that effect.
Lee was chief of staff for Winfield Scott. Doubt he knew some brevet 2nd LT in the Quartermaster Corps in a 10 or 15 thousand man Army. From Grant's Memoirs, I could be wrong or "misremembering", he asked Lee if he remembered him and Lee said he did not. Of course, Lee was probably humbled and upset that he was beaten by this young general, 16 years his junior and may have said it for effect.
Folklore!
All 1706 pages...First chapter was not well written. Sort of balky. I was wondering how he was a West Point grad and President. But the writing got better and better each chapter.
I was wishing I had a map of the battles. Problem with e-books is the drawings and graphics are bad. Didn't have the internet where I was so it was hard to follow the battles and formations.
I found it a great book.
Mark Twain and U.S. Grant - ( New Window )
Grant was once again facing a complete bankruptcy and more importantly he had very painful throat and lung cancer.
He had nothing to leave his family.
One Sam Clemens ( Mark Twain) arranged for him to receive the largest advance and percentage yet received at the time for his memoirs.
Although he could have written a 300 page book and claimed the contract, Grant worked tirelessly without ghostwriters in terrible condition for many months beyond his life expectancy to honor his wife and family.
He died the day after he finished his 1700 page book.
He left his widow a millionaire.
He was a frequent failure. Except he finished what he started. Alwàys.
To me, it was a post script that said a lot about the man
Grant was once again facing a complete bankruptcy and more importantly he had very painful throat and lung cancer.
He had nothing to leave his family.
One Sam Clemens ( Mark Twain) arranged for him to receive the largest advance and percentage yet received at the time for his memoirs.
Although he could have written a 300 page book and claimed the contract, Grant worked tirelessly without ghostwriters in terrible condition for many months beyond his life expectancy to honor his wife and family.
He died the day after he finished his 1700 page book.
He left his widow a millionaire.
He was a frequent failure. Except he finished what he started. Alwàys.
Superstitious about turning back.
When I was in school in the 60s, he was always talked of with much derision. As a kid and not knowing anything, I always wondered how the guy that beat Bobby Lee was considered an inferior general. Vicksburg and the Western campaign were hardly spoken of as if they did not matter. Drunkard, butcher, uncouth, corrupt. Did not know he started the Justice Department. Did not know he initially crushed the KKK - these were not taught.
Amazing what revisionist history can do.
I am really glad the history channel did this documentary, maybe it will enlighten some people like myself and pique their interest to learn more about Grant.
It really painted Grant in a whole new light, especially his Presidency. I didn't know about his going after the Klan or starting the Justice Department.
It is also why I was completely on board with removing Confederate statues and the like.
The program brought up "The Lost Cause","The Lost Cause: A New Southern History of the War of the Confederates" by Edward A. Pollard.
https://quod.lib.umich.edu/m/moa/ADH2296.0001.001?rgn=subject;view=toc;q1=America+--+History
I've read the book (a bit dry, but not bad reading when you get to the troop movement parts). Pollard was the Editor of the Richmond Examiner, and a fierce critic of Jefferson Davis. Davis gets 100% more criticism in the book than Grant. Pollard is totally biased in the book for the South, and while he does blast Grant for being a butcher and no where near Lee (who he does deify), he actually gives Grant credit for his behavior during Lee's surrender, which is more than he ever did for Davis, who is the real villain in his book.
https://quod.lib.umich.edu/m/moa/ADH2296.0001.001/722?rgn=subject;view=image;q1=America+--+History
Pollack's book, as despicable as it is in many parts, is a great resource into the attitude and details of the Confederacy, written from their point of view. Bill2, you might be interested in Chapter XXV, where Pollack devotes a whole chapter into how Davis and his administration totally miss managed the economy of the Confederacy by inflating the Confederate dollar. It's a fascinating read.
Lastly, even if every former Southerner despised Grant (not true), why would Pollack's book or the Lost Cause in general affect people in the North? Grant's legacy, IMO, was critically injured by the massive corruption in his administration, which really needed a whole two hours by itself to unravel. Here's the Wikipedia article on that in the link below:
Grant administration scandals - ( New Window )