NFT: MLB cannot get out of their own way

you take from your record profits the last couple of years... or you borrow at current low interest rates against the billions (even the Marlins) your franchise is worth.

Its called seeing the long picture - lots of large corporations this year will suffer some losses but while protecting the livelihoods and health of their employees... and they'll be rewarded over the long-term for that.

Oh and no one believes MLB's books either

and like I said above, the players might be more interested in a proposal like this if MLB were to consider the pay reduction (part of it at least) as "deferred pay" not just a cut and the players could recoup their lost wages over the next two seasons recovery (for example).

something like that I think may make it more equitable for the players.

I know the A's consider themselves small market, but if the Marlins can do it the A's can too.

Kyle Glaser
@KyleAGlaser
·
30m
Add the Marlins to the list of teams who will continue paying their minor leaguers. Miami will continue giving its minor leaguers $400 per week.

In comment 14911500 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

I know the A's consider themselves small market, but if the Marlins can do it the A's can too. Kyle Glaser @KyleAGlaser · 30m Add the Marlins to the list of teams who will continue paying their minor leaguers. Miami will continue giving its minor leaguers $400 per week.

I think a big reason is JEter, a former player, is involved in Marlins ownership. That is not the case in most organizations.

on the Marlins paying their minor leaguers collectively around $1M because he is an ex-player, but does he also influence the Marlins paying their major leaguers a league lowest (or 2nd lowest)?

Also, not sure you know what you're talking about. From what I can find, only 4 teams have publicly stated plans for paying their minor leaguers. The White Sox, Marlins and Phillies all announced plans to continue to paying their players - though the phillies said the $400 might be lower. Only the A's said otherwise. So far.

In comment 14911456 MetsAreBack said:

Quote:

you take from your record profits the last couple of years... or you borrow at current low interest rates against the billions (even the Marlins) your franchise is worth. Its called seeing the long picture - lots of large corporations this year will suffer some losses but while protecting the livelihoods and health of their employees... and they'll be rewarded over the long-term for that. Oh and no one believes MLB's books either

Well said. And the owners know they can win the PR battle, "look at these greedy players who refuse to still play for millions while a significant amount of people remain unemployed!"

It's BS, this group of Owners, with spineless Manfred doing their bidding, are absolutely killing Baseball. There is no eye on the bigger picture, just short term profit. If they can't find a way to play this season, the sport may never fully recover.

sound like a Manfred mouthpiece here? A union divided is not a union. I'm no expert in CBA's but this has to be strategy 101 from the "management playbook"

Quote:

Jon Heyman @JonHeyman · 1h Union leadership, many top agents and surely highly-paid star players are upset by MLB proposal (“barely worth a response”), but many lower-paid players may have different reax. Know this: 65% of MLB players make $1M or less and off prorated pay they still get at most a 15% cut.

make the highest paid players the "bad guys" and turn players against each other

tell me all I need to know about the "good will" of the owners.

Sports owners have forever taken advantage of the emotional response that sports brings to people and have benefited greatly from a closed market for each of their respective leagues.

They'll never drum up that much sympathy from me.

They're supposed to start extended spring training in two or three weeks and so far they haven't even worked out protocols or scheduling. Just a few of the issues that come to mind

1) How do you play baseball without minor leagues ? This isn't football where you have a practice squad. The minor leaguers have to play games to be viable as call ups, but they won't be able to. In football you play one day a week and practice 5 days. In baseball you play every day. There is no time for these minor leaguers to do any meaningful work.

2) The proposed COVID protocols are ridiculous. Players not in the game can't be on the bench ? Players are expected to social distance on the base paths ? This is going to make putting in a pinch hitter as slow as making a pitching change. The whole flow of the game is going to be disruptive to players and boring for viewers.

3) What about reporters and announcers ? Having them remote doesn't work. For example when a player hits a fly ball how does the announcer know whether its a pop up or a home run ? Unless its an obvious moonshot he watches how the players react. Otherwise from a broadcast booth its difficult to tell the difference between a pop up or a fly ball to the outfield. It won't work from a remote monitor.

I suspect many owners and many players really don't want to play. The smaller markets are going to have a negative cash flow as it is. What happens if a significant number of players want to sit the season out, the money be damned. If the product they put out there is perceived as a farce its going to be even worse for the owners.

In comment 14911560 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

sound like a Manfred mouthpiece here? A union divided is not a union. I'm no expert in CBA's but this has to be strategy 101 from the "management playbook" Quote: Jon Heyman @JonHeyman · 1h Union leadership, many top agents and surely highly-paid star players are upset by MLB proposal (“barely worth a response”), but many lower-paid players may have different reax. Know this: 65% of MLB players make $1M or less and off prorated pay they still get at most a 15% cut.

Lol what kind of logic is that.... at most a 15% cut.... off a prorated pay amount (which is their annual salary). You are asking lower paid players to take a 57.5%-plus paycut for their 2020 take home pay. End of story.

They proposed this so the players come back saying that they want universal flat reduction instead of the top guys footing most of the bill. That will lead to what the other leagues do which is allocate a perecentage of revenie to the players which is in reality a capped structure. Problem with baseball is they dont share the same tv deals and each team has a network deal outside of the mlb deals, so they are not equal footing.

of the players dont play and teams lose money you will see more teams go the way of the Marlins and Pirates and load up on minmimum contract guys. There is already to many teams crying poor and gicing up on this season before the pandemic it will double next year.

Players are painted into a corner and MLB knows it

but honestly I think they rip up the TV contracts for a year and re-negotiate a special deal for just this season. The ratings are going to be through the roof with little else live at this point. I know the networks would balk, but think about how valuable this can be for them even into the fall when surely the primetime shows are going to be delayed because no production is going on right now. It could be a way to make up some of the lost gate revenue.

.

In comment 14911672 MetsAreBack said:

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.

I understand how contracts work, but if there's no basbeall nobody at the networks makes nickel. I think we can all agree that there are a little different cirumstances than normal.

The risk is huge. Just cancel, re-group, and make plans to modify what you can and hope things are better in the spring.

In comment 14911718 Bill L said:

Quote:

The risk is huge. Just cancel, re-group, and make plans to modify what you can and hope things are better in the spring.

I'm sorry to say you're probably right.

In comment 14911691 Stu11 said:

Quote:

In comment 14911672 MetsAreBack said: Quote: . I understand how contracts work, but if there's no basbeall nobody at the networks makes nickel. I think we can all agree that there are a little different cirumstances than normal.

If theres no baseball the networks dont have to pay the fees to broadcast it. What incetive do they have to pay more for it?

apply for PPP money, and if they do, what revenues they cite as losses. My guess it will be far greater than what they're telling the players.

You can argue about the players union all you want, but MLB owners have repeatedly acted in bad faith, shielding revenue from the MLBPA (such as RSN revs).

The NBA and, to a lesser degree, the NFL have been much more transparent about revenues, and therefore haven't had the number of work stoppages that MLB has. Another lost WS would be really damaging to a sport already struggling to attract fans.

In comment 14911718 Bill L said:

Quote:

The risk is huge. Just cancel, re-group, and make plans to modify what you can and hope things are better in the spring.

I think you are right. And the nature of how baseball is played makes it a risky proposition.

Dennis Lin
@dennistlin
· 27m
The Padres plan to continue paying their minor-leaguers $400 per week through the end of August, a source tells The Athletic.

I may be late to the game on this, and I know it probably millers the thread even worse, but $400 per week?

Is that for the full 52 weeks? Even if it is, is that all minor league baseball players get paid? That's $20,000 if it's for the whole year. How do they live?

and they need to fold minor league teams?

In comment 14911718 Bill L said:

Quote:

The risk is huge. Just cancel, re-group, and make plans to modify what you can and hope things are better in the spring.

? Lets keep it to the covid thread, there's a lot of evidence that unless we as a country continue to act like morons (e.g., treat this as a state/regional issue and not an age/conditions one) that there isnt "huge" risk in playing baseball this summer. South Korea is doing just fine. Germany, albeit early, seems to be doing fine.

opining not to go forward is out of place?

And there are so many ways to disagree with you on the rest of it, that it's not even funny. Well, none of this is funny. But that part should go on the COVID thread.

In comment 14911888 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

I may be late to the game on this, and I know it probably millers the thread even worse, but $400 per week? Is that for the full 52 weeks? Even if it is, is that all minor league baseball players get paid? That's $20,000 if it's for the whole year. How do they live? and they need to fold minor league teams?

I didn't see the duration specified. But, most minor leaguers are making in that vicinity. Unless you are a big draft pick and even then I believe the real money is in bonus. It is a huge leap for players to get called up to the show.

the money is usually entirely in the bonus. They do get meal allowances and their lodgings paid for.

Re contracts...wait until you see all the litigation over force majeure (sp?) clauses that is going to happen over the next several years.

In comment 14912042 Mike from SI said:

Quote:

the money is usually entirely in the bonus. They do get meal allowances and their lodgings paid for. Re contracts...wait until you see all the litigation over force majeure (sp?) clauses that is going to happen over the next several years.

So for a lot of the late round picks, who get small bonuses how much do they typically get paid?

For example when I look at the Mets 2019 draft results, 17th round Dan Goggin got a 10k bonus. Is he just making $400 per week (or 20K per year?)

yes.

"
Eric Sim
@esim69
·
Feb 14
Just a heads up A ball guys making $500/weekly is still only $2000/mo which the minor league season is 5 months so their salary for the year would be $10k before taxes, fees, clubhouse dues.

Still not getting paid for ST.

I mean I’m happy to see some increase, but do better."

In comment 14912042 Mike from SI said:

Quote:

the money is usually entirely in the bonus. They do get meal allowances and their lodgings paid for. Re contracts...wait until you see all the litigation over force majeure (sp?) clauses that is going to happen over the next several years.

I should be more clear. They obvi get meals and lodging on the road. I think there may be a meal allowance at home, but many players stay with host families, so they may either get very little for lodging at home or nothing at all. However you slice it, it's not a happy existence except for the guys who had gotten big bonuses.

with or without COVID. Most of them have to work 2nd and even 3rd jobs. Some even work during the season. As others pointed out, the money is in the bonus.

when the Republican National Convention was in Houston and held at the Astrodome. The Astros had an extended road trip to accommodate and had a very young team at the time. Because of the extended trip, they, received larger than normal per diem allowances. The article relayed how the young players had decided to make the most of the per diem. They ate as much as possible at the ballpark because in the majors even the worst visiting clubhouses have pretty decent meals and snacks available. Any meals away from the ballpark was cheap fast food like McDonald's. Those guys made thousands extra that season, but I don't remember if it was a few thousand or more. Either way, it was a big deal to a lot of them who were not far removed from the minors.

fan or any other team fan who does this (waiting to see the Mets decision), I would not spend one penny on that franchise. I would not attend any games at their field, no parking, no ticket purchases, no concessions, no team apparel, zero. Of course I am just one person so who gives a shit, but I find it hard to support a team that would do this, for $1M.

Quote:

Jon Heyman @JonHeyman · 14h The added shame about the A’s halting $400 weekly stipends for minor leaguers is that they remain A’s employees — just unpaid employees — and can’t seek free agency or file for unemployment. With the move the A’s save about $1M to 1.2M. @stephapstein and @EmilyCWaldon on it

Quote:

Jon Heyman @JonHeyman · 5m If you wonder if/why teams can do this (and many did wonder), the Uniform Player Contract combined with the declaration of a National Emergency leaves little doubt they can. But so far the A’s are the only ones known to take this drastic step.

In comment 14912484 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

fan or any other team fan who does this (waiting to see the Mets decision), I would not spend one penny on that franchise. I would not attend any games at their field, no parking, no ticket purchases, no concessions, no team apparel, zero. Of course I am just one person so who gives a shit, but I find it hard to support a team that would do this, for $1M. Quote: Jon Heyman @JonHeyman · 14h The added shame about the A’s halting $400 weekly stipends for minor leaguers is that they remain A’s employees — just unpaid employees — and can’t seek free agency or file for unemployment. With the move the A’s save about $1M to 1.2M. @stephapstein and @EmilyCWaldon on it Quote: Jon Heyman @JonHeyman · 5m If you wonder if/why teams can do this (and many did wonder), the Uniform Player Contract combined with the declaration of a National Emergency leaves little doubt they can. But so far the A’s are the only ones known to take this drastic step.

I agree whole heartedly.

Apparently they're starting to release a bunch of minor Leaguers.

About baseball and it's future. This happening with the CBA expiring in 2021 could be a perfect storm. I am sure there are any number of franchises, perhaps even the majority who cannot afford to have multiple delays and/or lost seasons of revenue. If they don't play this year at all it seems inevitable the owners will require salary reduction next season too. And if the players don't agree? Will there even be a minor league system anymore if that happened?

And even if they do agree to play on reduced salary I cannot imagine they'd be willing to accept more cuts and/or freezes in reduction once the CBA expires. Seems like it's setting up for disaster.

In comment 14912618 GF1080 said:

Quote:

Apparently they're starting to release a bunch of minor Leaguers.

Is this to avoid paying them? At least in this case they become free agents I imagine and can collect unemployment which is more than they were making.

While I will withhold judgment until I see the reports and ideally commentary, it's more humane than just suspending the contract like the A's did.

Michael Mayer
@mikemayerMMO
·
14s
Mets are informing minor leaguers of release this afternoon. Expected to be a significant number.

to the minor league teams being eliminated.

Robert Murray
@ByRobertMurray
·
25m
Expect most teams to make minor-league cuts in coming days. Said one agent: “40 players per team just got whacked so the club could save $50k/month. This is the equivalent of trying to save money by cutting out your daily Starbucks trip but still driving an X5 you can’t afford.”

If you're not going to pay the guys, at least set them free so they can collect unemployment.

Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
· 2m
Mets are committed to paying minor leaguers the weekly $400 through the month of June

WTF Mets, hopefully they extend this. it's not like they're even saving $1M now, it's to save a couple hundred grand probably. I'll withhold judgment until I see facts. Doesn't matter much anyway, I already don't give the Mets any money.

In comment 14912686 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

Jon Heyman @JonHeyman · 2m Mets are committed to paying minor leaguers the weekly $400 through the month of June WTF Mets, hopefully they extend this. it's not like they're even saving $1M now, it's to save a couple hundred grand probably. I'll withhold judgment until I see facts. Doesn't matter much anyway, I already don't give the Mets any money.

Just going month to month which seems practical given the circumstances.


MLB had a real opportunity long term to grow the game by owning the month of July - people stuck at home, not traveling, thirsty for a distraction...
NHL and nba unable for whatever reason to get going before August ... what a real shame and embarrassment on both sides, moreso imo the owners but everyone just sucks in this

114 game season, from 6/30 to 10/31
$100MM of player salaries (all from contracts >$10MM) to be deferred if the post-season is cancelled, to be paid in Nov 2021 and 2022
Players who are deemed "high-risk" could opt-out of the season for health concerns, while still receiving the same pro-rated salary as guys who play (apparently this would include players with spouses, kids or other live=in family who are high risk)
Expanded playoffs both this year and next year.

Heyman has already reported that an ownership source called the proposal a "non-starter". We'll see where they go from here.


link - ( New Window )

In comment 14913953 Mad Mike said:

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114 game season, from 6/30 to 10/31 $100MM of player salaries (all from contracts >$10MM) to be deferred if the post-season is cancelled, to be paid in Nov 2021 and 2022 Players who are deemed "high-risk" could opt-out of the season for health concerns, while still receiving the same pro-rated salary as guys who play (apparently this would include players with spouses, kids or other live=in family who are high risk) Expanded playoffs both this year and next year. Heyman has already reported that an ownership source called the proposal a "non-starter". We'll see where they go from here. link - ( New Window )

I don't know which proposal is worse, the owners or this one.
Opt out and get paid?

114 games is too much if they want a postseason. Cannot be playing baseball in snow.

why are we still at the point of negotiations where both side present a deal that neither one find acceptable. Why werent they doing this part a month and a half ago. At this point with NHL/NBA much closer to returning and NFL looking on schedule i dont really care about MLB. I mean im a huge baseball fan but both sides can screw themselves.

I get MLB is in a shit position being that they didnt complete a large part of their season like NHL/NBA but still. Owners want to complete screw over the players by using their BS numbers and players want to act like nothing is wrong and get paid the same. I mean did i see that any player can opt out (high risk or not) and accrue service time? Are you kidding? Every person should have the right to opt out of their job but you dont get paid for it or get closer to a new contract. Like i said, both sides can go kick rocks. NBA/NHL will lead right into football.

we'll find out over the next 5 days how much of this is negotiating that shouldnt have made its way into the public domain but has... and how much is both sides perfectly willing to punt the season.

As for # of games, i think its too much as well, but i suppose if you're not going to have fans anyway, then you can play a World Series on a neutral field in Florida or Arizona.

like most expect then in theory they can do more doubleheaders and less off days if they are desperate to get more games in. Not sure its worth it, but its an option.

In comment 14914057 Italianju said:

Quote:

like most expect then in theory they can do more doubleheaders and less off days if they are desperate to get more games in. Not sure its worth it, but its an option.

Do the networks have any say in that? Doubleheaders and more use of minor league players to get through all the innings... will drive some fatigue in viewership and overall lower ratings.

but would the viewership be better then say a rerun of some crap show? haha. but i guess I dont know if the networks would pay based on the amount of games and stuff like that. Assuming they dont, then more games would be better even if they werent great time slots. Plus right now with so many people not in the office i can see day games doing just fine rating wise.

going to be a good look for baseball if they don't play because of $. Not a good look @ all.

That works out for the Cole's and the Harper's that have guaranteed contracts for years to come. What about players in a contact year or who are arb eligible ? Players for who a poor performance or an injury can jeopardize their careers. A 114 game season means doubleheaders, few off days and a post season in freezing weather. Are any players other than the superstars signing up for that ? Its already apparent that the owners are not in agreement with one another, I suspect the players aren't either. I suspect on one side you have players with less than three years of service that look at the owners proposal and would like to say "Fine, Play Ball!". On the other extreme you have greedy fucks like Bryan Harper who want every penny of his $330 Mil and want to play 120 games. No skin off his nose if he spends half the season on the 60 day DL