What were your thoughts at the time? I was watching the 'Two Bills' earlier. Remember, he left in May, long after BB, TC, & others have gone so we didn't have a great pool of candidates to choose from. I know GY was adamant BB would never be the Giants HC so that's that, but perhaps TC? Or some other hot shot coordinator from around the league?
The timing wasn't ideal, to put it mildly.
It was a paradox. I did not want him to win another championship with a different team. Yet I held out hope he would return to the Giants. Always resented Young for not letting that happen.
But after 18 years of lousy football, only dreaming of beating the elite teams or being one themselves, Parcells held a special place in the fandom of my era.; still does.
Great coach, a great NY sports personality and I loved those teams he coached —but seeing him in all those other sidelines was queasy for me.
Then, I felt like he looked at the roster and did not think the team could compete and he left before the shit record could be pinned on him.
cant fault him for that
As far as the replacement was concerned. I'm fairly confident I thought Edhardt should have been the guy. I didn't see the need to leapfrom him with the H guy.
cant fault him for that
Hard as it was to accept, you'll never catch me grousing about Parcells because he gave me the greatest era of Giants football I will ever see.
I will always love him, but I was and still am pissed.
There are a couple of circumstances that lead to what happened.
As JonC stated above, he was sticking it to Young for the 1983 overtures to Howard Schnellenberger and hanging him out to dry even early into the 1984 offseason.
Also, Parcells was due for a new contract after teh 1990 season, but the negotiations kept getting put off. That wasn't necessarily intentional on Young's part, the playoff run pushed back the typical offseason scouting activities, they had to get to the combine, etc, but Parcells was frustrated at the lack of movement.
Then there was Tim Mara selling his 50% of the franchise to Bob Tisch. Tim Mara was something of a security blanket for Parcells. He was the owner Parcells could talk to and reason with because he trusted him. Losing Tim meant he was losing some security, as he never completely trusted Young.
So, he began flirting with NBC and a TV gig and after the draft decided to jump ship.
There were other reasons but that one was the tipping point and THE GIANTS 100% KNEW HE WAS LEAVING BEFORE BELICHICK LEFT. Parcells was asked to stay through the draft and the sale by Tim Mara.
George Young despised Belichick and it was not a secret. Young told Belichick Handley was getting the job and he'd never be head coach on his watch before he left.
I found out 10 or 20 minutes later what really happened. lol.
As far as the replacement was concerned. I'm fairly confident I thought Edhardt should have been the guy. I didn't see the need to leapfrom him with the H guy.
He had also become very frustrated with the Giants rigid power structure. He always felt he should have more input on personnel but Young was very adamant that he was the GM and Tom Boisture ran the draft. I remember in the draft in 90 he wanted LB Darrion Conner and Young and Boisture were set on Rodney Hampton. Obviously that one worked out for us.
Quote:
Then there was Tim Mara selling his 50% of the franchise to Bob Tisch. Tim Mara was something of a security blanket for Parcells. He was the owner Parcells could talk to and reason with because he trusted him. Losing Tim meant he was losing some security, as he never completely trusted Young.
There were other reasons but that one was the tipping point and THE GIANTS 100% KNEW HE WAS LEAVING BEFORE BELICHICK LEFT. Parcells was asked to stay through the draft and the sale by Tim Mara.
George Young despised Belichick and it was not a secret. Young told Belichick Handley was getting the job and he'd never be head coach on his watch before he left.
The Giants did not know Parcells was leaving, and it makes absolutely no sense to have asked him to stay on the job through the draft. If they knew he was leaving they would have pushed him out the door to get the next head coach established with his own staff.
Parcells did what nobody expected him to do, young was taking too long to come through with with a new contract and a hefty raise that would have made him one of the top three paid head coaches (I believe Don Shula was the highest paid at that time.) Having just won his second Super Bowl that expectation was justified and Parcells was annoyed that Young was dragging his feet. I believe he was quoted as saying something along the lines of "he's treating me like a player." He was insulted and decided he'd had enough.
The initial TV thing was PArcells' agants idea. It was intended to be a shot across Young's bow. They were saying "hey, you'd better sign me or I'll leave." Young called Parcells' bluff and that was that. It was a stand-off between two stubborn men with big egos.
Belichick was long in the rear view mirror by the time any of this had even begun. The Brown's signed him as head coach the first week of February, less that two weeks after the Super Bowl. There are newspaper quotes from Belichick the day after Parcells quit the Giants on whether he would have stayed in New York had he known Parcells would leave, and he gave the typical Belichick non-answer.
Young did not think Belichick had the right personality to be a head coach, he felt he had poor people skills. Handley wasn't ready for the job at that point, it was too big of a jump having only been the RBs coach, he had only been promoted to OC that offseason, but that's all that was available in May at that point.
The sale of Tim Mara's half of the team to Bob Tisch came about two weeks after Belichik took the Cleveland job, and this was all before Parcells contract issues started.
Both Lombardi and Landry were gone before Sherman was hired.
Quote:
WHy was George Young so adamant that Bellichick would not be promoted to HC? It reminded me of the days when top assistants Vince Lombardi and Tom Landry were passed over for Allie Sherman. What did Young have against BB?
Both Lombardi and Landry were gone before Sherman was hired.
Isn't unbelievable to think that the Giants had 3 of possibly the top NFL 5 coaches in the last 75 years on their staffs and none ever coached one game for the Giants as HC.
yeah i was disappointed when he left, wasn't upset when he went to NE, they were a disaster at the time, was a little pissed when he went to the Jests, REALLY PISSED when he went to Dallas.
Quote:
In comment 14911479 LTIsTheGreatest said:
Quote:
WHy was George Young so adamant that Bellichick would not be promoted to HC? It reminded me of the days when top assistants Vince Lombardi and Tom Landry were passed over for Allie Sherman. What did Young have against BB?
Both Lombardi and Landry were gone before Sherman was hired.
Isn't unbelievable to think that the Giants had 3 of possibly the top NFL 5 coaches in the last 75 years on their staffs and none ever coached one game for the Giants as HC.
Amazing, but despite the popular urban legends that you see here, BB is the only one they absolutely "let go". Landry retired to go into the oil business back home in Texas. When MAra learned that Lamar Hunt was wooing him for the AFL, he called Clint Murchison and set up the meeting. Tom and wife did not want to leave Texas. Lombardi was supposedly "loaned" to the Packers, but they wouldn't let him or he wouldn't leave them or a little of both, to come back to the Giants.
Quote:
In comment 14911527 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 14911479 LTIsTheGreatest said:
Quote:
WHy was George Young so adamant that Bellichick would not be promoted to HC? It reminded me of the days when top assistants Vince Lombardi and Tom Landry were passed over for Allie Sherman. What did Young have against BB?
Both Lombardi and Landry were gone before Sherman was hired.
Isn't unbelievable to think that the Giants had 3 of possibly the top NFL 5 coaches in the last 75 years on their staffs and none ever coached one game for the Giants as HC.
Amazing, but despite the popular urban legends that you see here, BB is the only one they absolutely "let go". Landry retired to go into the oil business back home in Texas. When MAra learned that Lamar Hunt was wooing him for the AFL, he called Clint Murchison and set up the meeting. Tom and wife did not want to leave Texas. Lombardi was supposedly "loaned" to the Packers, but they wouldn't let him or he wouldn't leave them or a little of both, to come back to the Giants.
I remember reading the Lombardi book "When Pride Still Mattered" they didn't mention anything about a loan, more just that that was his chance to be a HC and then the rest is history. Can't really blame the Giants, they lived in the Championship games through '63 Just a strange thing to know all 3 of those guys contributed to Giants championships on their staffs and never ended up coaching for us.
Quote:
In comment 14911567 Stu11 said:
Quote:
In comment 14911527 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 14911479 LTIsTheGreatest said:
Quote:
WHy was George Young so adamant that Bellichick would not be promoted to HC? It reminded me of the days when top assistants Vince Lombardi and Tom Landry were passed over for Allie Sherman. What did Young have against BB?
Both Lombardi and Landry were gone before Sherman was hired.
Isn't unbelievable to think that the Giants had 3 of possibly the top NFL 5 coaches in the last 75 years on their staffs and none ever coached one game for the Giants as HC.
Amazing, but despite the popular urban legends that you see here, BB is the only one they absolutely "let go". Landry retired to go into the oil business back home in Texas. When MAra learned that Lamar Hunt was wooing him for the AFL, he called Clint Murchison and set up the meeting. Tom and wife did not want to leave Texas. Lombardi was supposedly "loaned" to the Packers, but they wouldn't let him or he wouldn't leave them or a little of both, to come back to the Giants.
I remember reading the Lombardi book "When Pride Still Mattered" they didn't mention anything about a loan, more just that that was his chance to be a HC and then the rest is history. Can't really blame the Giants, they lived in the Championship games through '63 Just a strange thing to know all 3 of those guys contributed to Giants championships on their staffs and never ended up coaching for us.
true, and a great book. If you haven't read it, try Ernie Palladino's "Lombardi and Landry". Great take on that era and their subsequent careers.
Quote:
In comment 14911602 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 14911567 Stu11 said:
Quote:
In comment 14911527 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 14911479 LTIsTheGreatest said:
Quote:
WHy was George Young so adamant that Bellichick would not be promoted to HC? It reminded me of the days when top assistants Vince Lombardi and Tom Landry were passed over for Allie Sherman. What did Young have against BB?
Both Lombardi and Landry were gone before Sherman was hired.
Isn't unbelievable to think that the Giants had 3 of possibly the top NFL 5 coaches in the last 75 years on their staffs and none ever coached one game for the Giants as HC.
Amazing, but despite the popular urban legends that you see here, BB is the only one they absolutely "let go". Landry retired to go into the oil business back home in Texas. When MAra learned that Lamar Hunt was wooing him for the AFL, he called Clint Murchison and set up the meeting. Tom and wife did not want to leave Texas. Lombardi was supposedly "loaned" to the Packers, but they wouldn't let him or he wouldn't leave them or a little of both, to come back to the Giants.
I remember reading the Lombardi book "When Pride Still Mattered" they didn't mention anything about a loan, more just that that was his chance to be a HC and then the rest is history. Can't really blame the Giants, they lived in the Championship games through '63 Just a strange thing to know all 3 of those guys contributed to Giants championships on their staffs and never ended up coaching for us.
true, and a great book. If you haven't read it, try Ernie Palladino's "Lombardi and Landry". Great take on that era and their subsequent careers.
Sounds good I'll have to take a look at it
I was sad to see him go, of course, but what and how he did it was meant to inflict damage on Giants and perhaps purposefully on Bill Belichek as well. It was disconcerting of course, but I never wished him well after that. He never won a ring again either.
pay attention. George Young said Belichick would NEVER make it as a HC. Parcells may be all the rotten things said about him, but he is not responsible for Belichick not coaching the Giants. That was all George Young.
yep.
Bill and Gearge Y. were great giants, but they both hurt the team when they left.
Bill and Gearge Y. were great giants, but they both hurt the team when they left.
I disagree that GY hurt the team when he left. He groomed Accorsi for 2 years, replaced Reeves with Fassel, went out with a Division winner and a decent core intact. left behind Tiki, Toomer, Strahan, Armstead, and alot more.
Parcells was a freshman at Colgate U, a school with total of 300/ class, so we all had some knowledge and I was a tutor for football players in freshman required philosophy course, so I got to know some great football players. Parcells left Colgate and went to Wichita State, which just was beginning of his peripatetic football career. It sure what it was but the man hAd a problem. We just caught the nasty end of it.
Sad in many ways. It Dallas was too much. Screw him.
Nobody is perfect, and his overall performance should be viewed positively.
Thanks Greg that's a cool re-count. Like I said the book was told from Lombardi's POV and he didn't mention anything about the loan agreement. Interesting enough if I remember right his wife was miserable in GB the first few years, but being such an obsessed football mind he got too into what he was building there to leave and go back home to NY. I have a feeling it was more of an informal thing that GB probably agreed to as a "whatever" and that Mara retold to make it look better that they let VL get away. Interesting thing about Landry- I know they were an expansion franchise but geez his record was awful in Dallas his first 5 years. His winning % was .333. Imagine surviving to see a 3rd year like that nowadays let alone a 6th season.
I know how you feel. I was a sophomore in HS. I had bet my friends in May of 1990 the Giants would win the SB and beat the Bills that year. Parcell's retirement in 91 was a big shock, coupled with the Bill B resignation.
Belichick had an affair with one of the Giants secretaries in the 80s. Hit the papers at the time, it wasn’t a secret. I don’t know if that was the only reason, but there was always chatter that Mara soured on Bill B because of that. The whole “family organization” thing.
Don’t know if that factored into how George Young felt about BB, but it was at least part of it I think. They seemed collectively sure BB wasn’t head coach material
Somewhat amusingly ironic, then, that their preferred choice, R** H******, ended up getting busted in flagrante with a tranny at a jersey turnpike rest stop during his coaching tenure.
Quote:
WHy was George Young so adamant that Bellichick would not be promoted to HC? It reminded me of the days when top assistants Vince Lombardi and Tom Landry were passed over for Allie Sherman. What did Young have against BB?
Belichick had an affair with one of the Giants secretaries in the 80s. Hit the papers at the time, it wasn’t a secret. I don’t know if that was the only reason, but there was always chatter that Mara soured on Bill B because of that. The whole “family organization” thing.
Don’t know if that factored into how George Young felt about BB, but it was at least part of it I think. They seemed collectively sure BB wasn’t head coach material
Somewhat amusingly ironic, then, that their preferred choice, R** H******, ended up getting busted in flagrante with a tranny at a jersey turnpike rest stop during his coaching tenure.
My Uncle Jimmy used to tell that story about 'he who shall remain nameless', is it really true? Where did it start?
Ef him.
The timing sucked but he did a have to go in for bypass surgery which is serious stuff. I wasn’t happy but never held his leaving against him. I do hold Young responsible for not hiring him back in 1997 and doing everything he could to get Fassel hired. That move probably cost the franchise another championship or two given the emergence of the Strahan, ,Armstead etc, defense that year. With the staff Parcells brought with him I could easily see that group winning it all at least once.