was just listening to her interview with Mike F, and she pointed out the Bethea, Jenkins, Ogletree all failed to really reach Baker, that there was unhappiness with Baker in the lockerroom, and part of it was from a lack of veteran leadership, partly attributed to the fact that the Vets weren't really stars.
I thought that was an interesting take.
Curious what fans think about this. Do we need a strong leader to command the lockerroom to succeed on defense.
It seems a lot of the great defenses in Giants history, and generally in the NFL had a dominant leader or two. Strahan in 07', Rolle in 11', Taylor, Banks in 86, 90; Ravens had Lewis, Seahawks had Sherman.
So is that *leader*, that alpha in our locker room yet?
Also, Kam Chancellor was the co-leader if not the Alpha in that Seattle locker room. Sherman was the extrovert and garnered more attention with the public. Kam was the low-key boss behind the scenes settling disputes.
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that Harry Carson was THE captain of the 1980s Giants should not be writing an article about team leaders. Even at training camps in that era, you could see who the captain was. Used to love that Parcells only sent Harry out for the coin toss.
Me too. Total badass, facing off against four or five opponents at midfield with his hands on his hips.
...
This picture of Harry Carson standing alone says it all. 1 true leader is all it takes. What an awesome pic!
In that regard I think she is right, especially how young this team is.
Rolle was willing to take on the role of calling people out. I don't think he scared anyone but that was a veteran team and probably didn't need that kind of persona. Eli was never that type.
Strahan, I think was the last guy to fit that mold.
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In comment 14911405 section125 said:
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that Harry Carson was THE captain of the 1980s Giants should not be writing an article about team leaders. Even at training camps in that era, you could see who the captain was. Used to love that Parcells only sent Harry out for the coin toss.
Me too. Total badass, facing off against four or five opponents at midfield with his hands on his hips.
...
This picture of Harry Carson standing alone says it all. 1 true leader is all it takes. What an awesome pic!
Agree, Harry was great.
Things eventually calmed down and Rolle seemed to enjoy himself with his new team. He made some ridiculous comments about fans booing the Giants, but for the most part, he became well-liked by his new teammates. But as ESPNNewYork.com's Ohm Youngmisuk points out, Rolle was up to his old tricks while appearing on a radio show in Miami. He thinks Coughlin could stand to loosen up a bit more. You know, like the head coach who shares a home field with the Giants. "As a person I don't have any problem with Coach Coughlin," Rolle said. "We have a great relationship. When you're talking about the coaching side of things, do I feel like things are a little too uptight? Yeah, I do. I feel like if he just loosened up just a little bit, still run the ship the way you want to run it, still run the program the way you want to run it but let us have a little fun ... because at the end of the day that's what it's all about."
"And people like to talk about Rex Ryan and this that and the other. That team is going to war for him," Rolle added.
Rolle was very good at working the media and apparently Kim Jones bought into his act hook line and sinker.
“I just felt there wasn’t enough leadership, there wasn’t enough passion about a loss, there wasn’t enough passion going into the game, there wasn’t enough passion during the game when we were down by such a large margin. But it’s going to be fixed. It’s the first game. I want to nip it in the bud now before things prolong.”
Rolle said “I’m just one guy expressing what I feel and what I know other guys feel and might not have said.”
Eli Manning didn’t say he agreed with Rolle, stating he didn’t sense anything too casual or accepting of the loss in Indianapolis.
“I thought we treated it like a loss,” Manning said. “Nobody was happy about it, everybody was down about it.”
Left tackle David Diehl said he did not agree with Rolle.
“I can’t say I saw the same thing,” Diehl said. “I don’t know about that. When I looked around I saw a lot of people who were upset and pissed off.”
Rolle also had an issue with the Giants getting into Indy too early on Saturday and arriving at Lucas Oil Stadium too early Sunday for a night game. Rolle said he felt sluggish and teammates felt the same way because there was too much down time before the game.
The subject of the schedule was discussed when Rolle and Coughlin met.
“He came back and said ‘Antrel, the schedules are set.’ He said he never had any complaints about it before. If other guys around here, just because it’s not being said doesn’t mean they don’t feel that way. I was relaying that message on behalf of the team,” the safety said.
“He’s the head coach, he says get there four hours before the game I got to get there four hours before the game. I’m not saying that’s an excuse for why we got whupped. I’m just expressing my emotion expressing how I felt going into the game, I’ve never felt that way.”
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and sorely need one...
How do you know we didn't have a leader? If the team had been winning, would that mean we had a leader? Maybe we just didn't have the talent.
Unless the film crews went well out of their way not to show it, there was no one on defense the players seemed to "gravitate too". No one rushing up to put an out of place player in the right position before the snap. No one running up to another player after a blown assignment to tell him "you should have been here, but you'll get it next time. No one encouraging the other players on the sideline etc...
Maybe I just missed it, but I didn't see any of that on our defense.
When you lose the guy who shows up all the time, puts in his best, and gets the most out of his (much less talented) teammates is not a leader.
If he(his lawyer) beats the charges against him I would be shocked if he all of a sudden became coachable.
Baker will either up his attitude and character from this experience or get cut and fall to another team and 3rd chance....and 4th chance...and no chance...perhaps.
I think we get stuck looking for that one leader who embodies all of the qualities of several types of leaders. Those are rare, far and few. Knowing who is really a true leader takes intimate team access to me.
Baker will either up his attitude and character from this experience or get cut and fall to another team and 3rd chance....and 4th chance...and no chance...perhaps.
First a nod to Milton, buddy you're on fire on this thread!!!
So many great points and examples/quotes to back up your observations. Well done!
Next point re the secondary: the leaders last year were supposed to be Jabrill Peppers (along with Bethea and Jenkins, who really, really didn't fit the role for the newbie Baker.)
This year perhaps there's a difference with Bethea (who stunk too bad on the field to lead a problematic talent like Baker) gone, McKinney back at FS, Peppers back too, Love in his 2nd year and a star high priced CB in Bradberry, and younger guys with outstanding attitudes in Holmes the rookie and Ballentine. Ballentine seems the right type to help create an attitude among the DB group, as clearly does Holmes. Last year after Corey lost his best friend in the tragic and wholly unpredictable shooting, just getting his head back onto the field was a triumph of sorts, IMO.
Sometimes "leadership" is a group effort.
No coach, I imagine, is better prepared to tackle those issues than a long term STs coordinator, which teams are made almost entirely by effort and intelligence.
You rarely get the most talented guys on the team contributing to STs... Though I'd love to see Barkley play gunner on punts.