Obviously, his career isn't over. (Although, he does seem on the decline.) So, things may change, but if his career ended today, what would Rodger's legacy be?
It seems like he's been riding the top spot at QB for a decade now and still only has one ring to show for it. Has he underachieved or was he overrated?
He's the lifetime passer rating champ. He won 2 league MVPs, a Bert Bell Award, made 8 pro bowls and two all pro teams. In 12 years as a starter his team has only missed the playoffs 3 times. He's only thrown more than 10 interceptions in a season twice in his career. 47,000 passing yards, 364 TD, 84 INT, 3,000 rushing yards, 28 RushTD
At the same time, he only has one ring. Same as Joe Flacco. Obviously, very different players, but in terms of success...
Where do you place him all time? It seemed like he was destined to be one of if not the best ever. But winning matters. It seems like Brady is the GOAT by far now. Where does that leave Rodgers? Is he even a top 5 QB of all time?
I think he is overrated and has underachieved. Many pen him as the most talented QB in the game. It surely has not amounted to the results on the field in the playoffs. I don’t like his attitude and leadership skills at the QB position, but I’ve also had Eli to root for the past decade and a half
Most efficient QB in the history of the NFL with peak MVP seasons up there worth the best of him and a Ring and all that gets you is “very good”.
Haha.
I believe, if not for the latter, he has probably 3 rings.
He doesn't help his cause by coming across as a dick of a teammate.
But his attitude and his coaches (Especially McCarthy) have held him back from winning more.
A Career TD:INT ration of 1.33 vs 4.33.
For me he's in the top 5 - Brady, Manning, Montana, Marino, Rodgers
I have no opinion on the outside noise surrounding his career. Why hasn't he won more? Winning a Super Bowl is not easy...
Well, Brees only has 1 and has had the far far far better coach and support system throughout his career.
Elway got both of his on the coat tails of Terrell Davis.
Peyton Manning got his final ring because that defense played out of their minds that season + playoffs.
We can "what if" this to death but the top QB's of all time other than Brady and Montana don't have a ton of hardware. It isn't easy.
I think Rodgers is a dick, as are many professional athletes. On the field, he had one major flaw and it seemed to creep up more in recent years-- that he would hold on to the ball a bit too long looking for a home run.
But overall, he was the prototype-- as complete a quarterback as I've ever seen. He could make all the throws from the pocket or on the run, had a quick release, is mobile, and seemed to pull throws out of his ass.
I have always maintained that Peyton is the best QB I've ever seen play. But there were flashes where I've questioned whether Rodgers, at his best, even exceeded that.
I can't prove this-- but there are certain QBs that give me the feeling that no matter what team they were drafted to, which coach they were molded by, or which system was in place, that they could go to any situation and his teammates would just start playing better by virtue of him at the helm. They had a high level version of the "it" factor and their teams would always be competitive. -- him, Peyton, Russell, Luck, Brees, Brady (though Brady took a longer time for me to feel that way, despite being the greatest winner of them all).
Mahomes has started to show over the last two years some legendary performance from the QB position. But I still need time to see how much of that might be coming into a great Andy Reid system with really strong talent around him on the line and at skill positions.
2 SBs cannot be pooh-poohed as lightning striking. It’s hard as fuck to get there and then perform at such a high level..
Oh, and he still has plenty left in the tank.
Apologies...what’s the question?
I understand that this is a thread about Legacy and Rodgers' demeanor is certainly a part of his story, but I don't think that should undermine what he's accomplished which is what I often see in Rodgers threads.
I understand that this is a thread about Legacy and Rodgers' demeanor is certainly a part of his story, but I don't think that should undermine what he's accomplished which is what I often see in Rodgers threads.
Nobody is undermining what he’s accomplished. But they are looking at it realistically. He is a sure fire HOFer and almost certainly a top 10 QB
Take out his Super Bowl season and he has a 6-8 record in the playoffs. He had a lot of top teams too that bowed out way too early, often losing at home to inferior teams in Lambeau with it’s supposed home field advantage. They were 15-1 when they got crushed by the Giants.
If I’m putting him in my top 5, I need to see him do more with what he had in the playoffs.
And then his bu
The underlying point goes to some of themes in this thread
So no, i'm not doing that. He's 11-8 in the playoffs with with 5,000 yards and almost maintains his 4:1 TD to INT ratio that he's always had. In his Superbowl win he posted a 300/3/0 stat line and in the 2010 playoffs as a whole - 1100/9/2 with 2 additional rushing TDs.
Come on man.
So no, i'm not doing that. He's 11-8 in the playoffs with with 5,000 yards and almost maintains his 4:1 TD to INT ratio that he's always had. In his Superbowl win he posted a 300/3/0 stat line and in the 2010 playoffs as a whole - 1100/9/2 with 2 additional rushing TDs.
Come on man.
Good post
While I wouldn’t put Rodgers at the level of a Mayfield in that sense, he is closer to a Mayfield than an Eli IMO, and it is legitimate to question whether that his makeup is part of the reason for why they have underachieved in the playoffs.
He may be one of the (if not the) most talented QBs to ever play. But it takes more than talent to win in the playoffs.
As far as Rings .... not at the elite level (meaning more than 1)
Big Games ... some great wins in the playoffs, likely remembered more for the bad ones (Seattle, 49ers, etc)
Wins ... Guy is a winner and competitor at an elite level
When its all said and done, I think Rodgers (and Brees) will be remembered as Hall of Fame level players who ultimately should have won more titles
Tom Brady threw for 5235 yards, 39 TDs, 65.6 comp%, and led the Pats to a 13-3 record and the 3rd best offense in the league
Rodgers won the league MVP with 48/50 votes and was 1st team All-Pro QB with 47.5/50 votes, Brees picking up the remaining votes
2011 was the best regular season of Drew Brees' career and one of the top 5 of Brady's, and yet everybody kind of came to the conclusion that Aaron Rodgers was CLEARLY better than them in that season. That's how good Aaron Rodgers at his best felt. His combination of throwing power and accuracy, both in the pocket and on the run, was unfair.
His 2010 playoff run is the best sustained stretch of QB playoff play I've personally ever seen. The stats don't do it justice. His game against the Falcons in the Divisional Round that year is maybe the best game I've ever seen a QB play. And then he was excellent against a dominant Steelers defense in the Super Bowl. He wasn't along for the ride during that Super Bowl, he was the ride.
Having one of the best playoff runs ('10) and regular seasons ('11) I've seen from a QB, I'll always have Aaron Rodgers very high on my list. Peak Aaron Rodgers during those years might be the best QB ever in my book.
Injuries and lack of playoff success since '10 have hurt him. But the Packers were never built as well as the Saints or Pats or even the Colts when Peyton was there, Rodgers just made it work. Even the last two years where people say he's declined, he's thrown 51 TDs and 6 INTs over his last 32 games.
I do think one fair knock on him is that he's too conservative. Like I said, 51 TDs and 6 INTs these last two years but if he was a little more aggressive his offenses could've been better even if his TD:INT ratio wasn't quite as pristine.
Overall, I rank him only below Brady and Peyton among QBs of the last 20 years. Ahead of Brees. I think historically Steve Young is probably the most similar type of QB, GOAT stats but not quite in the GOAT convo due to longevity/durability/good but not great playoff success.
Is he douche? Yes. But at the same time if you've followed the stories, his family and especially his brother are annoying as fuck too. Some people have issues with family, since I don't know any of the details it's not my place to call Rodgers an asshole for not wanting to talk to his family. And Rodgers being a douche makes him far from the only great QB to be one. Peyton sexually assaulted a trainer in college and was a whiny loser for most of his career throwing teammates under the bus. Dan Marino was a notorious piece of shit party animal in Miami. The list goes on. Rodgers being a douche doesn't mean anything to me when it comes to his place all-time.
So no, i'm not doing that. He's 11-8 in the playoffs with with 5,000 yards and almost maintains his 4:1 TD to INT ratio that he's always had. In his Superbowl win he posted a 300/3/0 stat line and in the 2010 playoffs as a whole - 1100/9/2 with 2 additional rushing TDs.
Come on man.
He gets all the credit in the world for the SB. Taking that out was merely to illustrate his underachievement in the rest of his playoff career.
That said, taking out his SB season to evaluate his playoff performance doesn't seem right. And when you look at his playoff record, three seasons he was eliminated in overtime without even touching the ball in OT!
Source
In that third loss described in the article, he had 4th and 20 in his endzone, and in 2 plays, scored a TD to tie it up. In overtime, Packers won the toss but the coin didn't flip. Re-toss, Arizona wins, and then on the first play of overtime, they get a 75 yard completion to Fitzgerald (breakdown of that game here)
His playoff record is spotty. If he was truly great he would have more than one ring. Great QB and very accurate passer that was also kind of a douche will be his legacy.
The underlying point goes to some of themes in this thread
Is this for real? Who cares if no one was a 1st rounder. The 2011 team that went 15-1 had Jordy Nelson, Greg Jennings, James Jones, Donald Driver, and Randall Cobb at WR, as well as a prime Jermichael Finley at TE. Nelson, Cobb, and Jennings were 2nd rounders. Finley and Jones were 3rd
As Osi points out above the Colts, Pats and Saints have all been more talented and better run and the Pats + Saints for sure had better coaching.
Best part is his career isn't over. He was just int he NFCC game losing to an elite defense and pretty damn good offense. It happens.
That said, taking out his SB season to evaluate his playoff performance doesn't seem right. And when you look at his playoff record, three seasons he was eliminated in overtime without even touching the ball in OT!
Quote:
Well, like everything in football, there is no one singular reason for Aaron Rodgers’ OT woes, though the playoff ones can easily be explained. In those three playoff losses, Rodgers never touched the ball in overtime. Ever. In that wild 51-45 wild-card loss to Arizona in 2009, Rodgers led Green Bay to a game-tying TD on his final drive, then never went out on offense again (except for one kneel down play at the end of regulation.) In last year’s NFC championship loss to the Seahawks, Rodgers drove the Packers 58 yards in one minute, got a game-tying field goal with 19 seconds left and the Packers lost on a Seattle touchdown on the opening drive of overtime. And then on Sunday, of course, Rodgers threw a Hail Mary on the final play of regulation, lost not one, but two coin tosses and saw his playoff hopes dashed after three plays.
Source
In that third loss described in the article, he had 4th and 20 in his endzone, and in 2 plays, scored a TD to tie it up. In overtime, Packers won the toss but the coin didn't flip. Re-toss, Arizona wins, and then on the first play of overtime, they get a 75 yard completion to Fitzgerald (breakdown of that game here)
Again, nobody is taking out his SB to evaluate his career. It’s not that hard to comprehend. The point was that in all his other seasons, he had a losing record in the playoffs with some very good teams.
Elway had 0 such Super Bowls
Peyton has 0 such Super Bowls
Although Peyton deserves credit for the New England comeback, that was a Bob Sanders + Colts D led Super Bowl. And Elway rode Terrell Davis to his rings.
So while 2 > 1, I think Rodgers' 1 means a lot more than most.
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Aaron Rodgers has thrown over 360 touchdowns, and only ONE has ever gone to a first round pick.
The underlying point goes to some of themes in this thread
Is this for real? Who cares if no one was a 1st rounder. The 2011 team that went 15-1 had Jordy Nelson, Greg Jennings, James Jones, Donald Driver, and Randall Cobb at WR, as well as a prime Jermichael Finley at TE. Nelson, Cobb, and Jennings were 2nd rounders. Finley and Jones were 3rd
yeah its for real. The Packers never invested in 1st round weapons for him outside of Jordy that was a high 2nd I believe. How can that not be factored in? And the running game? Haha.
Quote:
Aaron Rodgers has thrown over 360 touchdowns, and only ONE has ever gone to a first round pick.
The underlying point goes to some of themes in this thread
Is this for real? Who cares if no one was a 1st rounder. The 2011 team that went 15-1 had Jordy Nelson, Greg Jennings, James Jones, Donald Driver, and Randall Cobb at WR, as well as a prime Jermichael Finley at TE. Nelson, Cobb, and Jennings were 2nd rounders. Finley and Jones were 3rd
I found it interesting. Not suggesting he hasn’t had very good targets to work with but much of this thread is talking about the fine line difference of one Super Bowl versus multiple...maybe Green Bay’s investments around Rodgers could have been amplified and that would have made up some. Maybe...maybe not.
Lots of receivers in this past draft and they go out and trade up for a QB. Thanks so much.
Is this for real? Who cares if no one was a 1st rounder. The 2011 team that went 15-1 had Jordy Nelson, Greg Jennings, James Jones, Donald Driver, and Randall Cobb at WR, as well as a prime Jermichael Finley at TE. Nelson, Cobb, and Jennings were 2nd rounders. Finley and Jones were 3rd
I think you're overrating some of these guys. Jermichael Finley? Nice player, but hardly an all pro. Driver was at the end of his career, Jones and Cobb are the very definition of JAG's, Nelson and Jennings were very good.
Brett Favre won one SB, with arguably better surrounding casts, and a far better coach early in his career. Rodgers has played most of his career with ordinary WR's, little running games, and shitty D's. Gee, I wonder why he didn't win more?
So amazing QB with the stats and longevity and no hardware = better than the guy with better stats and the hardware?
Just admit you don't like the guy, and that's fine if you don't. But you don't have any solid reasons not to consider him one of the best ever especially when you put a Marino in your top 5 despite him having all the playoff short comings you claim Rodgers does.
Quote:
In comment 14911459 LBH15 said:
Quote:
Aaron Rodgers has thrown over 360 touchdowns, and only ONE has ever gone to a first round pick.
The underlying point goes to some of themes in this thread
Is this for real? Who cares if no one was a 1st rounder. The 2011 team that went 15-1 had Jordy Nelson, Greg Jennings, James Jones, Donald Driver, and Randall Cobb at WR, as well as a prime Jermichael Finley at TE. Nelson, Cobb, and Jennings were 2nd rounders. Finley and Jones were 3rd
yeah its for real. The Packers never invested in 1st round weapons for him outside of Jordy that was a high 2nd I believe. How can that not be factored in? And the running game? Haha.
Such a meaningless stat. The Packers are a well run organization over the years. Since they drafted Sterling Sharpe in 1988, they have gone WR once in the 1st. Javon Walker in 2002.
It is smarter generally IMO to get WRs in the 2nd and 3rd. The Packers have generally built up the defense with their first round picks since Rodgers. Until drafting Love this year, they have gone D 12 times and OL twice.
And as pointed above what the reward for carrying the team to the NFCC game? Ohh yeah, a 1st round investment in a QB. Really going all out to win in 2020, but hey atleast their strategy is consistent.
But more than that, looking at his other playoff seasons only reduces the sample size and leaves a lot more room for variance. That's why I pointed out that in three playoff overtime losses, he never even touched the ball in overtime. Think about that-- nearly half of all of his playoff losses and times his team bowed out early happened in OT where he never even touched the ball
And yet, even in those those "early exit" non-SB winning seasons, his numbers are off the charts.
Even if you removed his SB run, in 14 playoff games where "he" went 6-8, he was 335 for 529, for 3933 yards, 31 TDs, and 10 INTs. As much as I hate passer rating, it's 97.49.
For comparison, in Brady's SB WINNING playoff runs, in 18 games, he was 461 for 706, for 4962 yards, 30 TDs, and 13 INTs. Passer rating: 92.27
If you extrapolate Rodgers 14 non-SB winning playoff runs to 18 games, it's 431 for 680, 5057 yards, 40 TDs, 13 INTs. And his record extrapolated would be 8-10. Again, compare that to where Brady went 18-0.
So amazing QB with the stats and longevity and no hardware = better than the guy with better stats and the hardware?
Just admit you don't like the guy, and that's fine if you don't. But you don't have any solid reasons not to consider him one of the best ever especially when you put a Marino in your top 5 despite him having all the playoff short comings you claim Rodgers does.
Dan Marino didn’t have near the talent around him that Rodgers did. He is at about 6 or 7 of QBs I’ve seen. Just googling an NFL.com ranking of all time QBs, they have Rodgers at 10, behind Elway, Marino, Brees, Peyton, Montana, and Brady. I don’t like Rodgers, but I can still acknowledge he’s one of the top QBs all time. My opinion that he is 6 or 7 is hardly out of line with some experts
Again it’s not everything...but it’s not nothing.
Come on guys, be objective, be smarter. While Eli is good enough for HOF consideration (if you want to say he's in, I have no argument), he is not in Rodger's stratosphere. Not in talent or production.
But more than that, looking at his other playoff seasons only reduces the sample size and leaves a lot more room for variance. That's why I pointed out that in three playoff overtime losses, he never even touched the ball in overtime. Think about that-- nearly half of all of his playoff losses and times his team bowed out early happened in OT where he never even touched the ball
And yet, even in those those "early exit" non-SB winning seasons, his numbers are off the charts.
Even if you removed his SB run, in 14 playoff games where "he" went 6-8, he was 335 for 529, for 3933 yards, 31 TDs, and 10 INTs. As much as I hate passer rating, it's 97.49.
For comparison, in Brady's SB WINNING playoff runs, in 18 games, he was 461 for 706, for 4962 yards, 30 TDs, and 13 INTs. Passer rating: 92.27
If you extrapolate Rodgers 14 non-SB winning playoff runs to 18 games, it's 431 for 680, 5057 yards, 40 TDs, 13 INTs. And his record extrapolated would be 8-10. Again, compare that to where Brady went 18-0.
It wasn’t casual dismissal. You are misinterpreting that. It is my opinion that he should have more playoff success based on his talent and the talent level of the teams he has played with
You just don’t seem to be rating them on the same playing field, that’s my issue. And I think that’s because you don’t like him.
I remember looking into this a while ago, but when he had Nelson, Jennings, and Driver, Rodgers had a 3 or 4 year stretch where his starting WRs collectively only missed like 5 or 6 total games. That's remarkable.
I remember writing about this back when the Eli and the Giants had an injury carousel of Smith, Nicks, Cruz, and Manningham