Obviously, his career isn't over. (Although, he does seem on the decline.) So, things may change, but if his career ended today, what would Rodger's legacy be?
It seems like he's been riding the top spot at QB for a decade now and still only has one ring to show for it. Has he underachieved or was he overrated?
He's the lifetime passer rating champ. He won 2 league MVPs, a Bert Bell Award, made 8 pro bowls and two all pro teams. In 12 years as a starter his team has only missed the playoffs 3 times. He's only thrown more than 10 interceptions in a season twice in his career. 47,000 passing yards, 364 TD, 84 INT, 3,000 rushing yards, 28 RushTD
At the same time, he only has one ring. Same as Joe Flacco. Obviously, very different players, but in terms of success...
Where do you place him all time? It seemed like he was destined to be one of if not the best ever. But winning matters. It seems like Brady is the GOAT by far now. Where does that leave Rodgers? Is he even a top 5 QB of all time?
Bingo.
Such a meaningless stat. The Packers are a well run organization over the years. Since they drafted Sterling Sharpe in 1988, they have gone WR once in the 1st. Javon Walker in 2002.
It is smarter generally IMO to get WRs in the 2nd and 3rd. The Packers have generally built up the defense with their first round picks since Rodgers. Until drafting Love this year, they have gone D 12 times and OL twice.
"The Packers have built up the defense"
Defensive Rank in Points Allowed
2008: 22nd
2009: 7th (lost 45-51 in playoffs to Cardinals)
2010: 2nd (Super Bowl Champion)
2011: 19th
2012: 11th
2013: 24th
2014: 13th
2015: 12th
2016: 21st
2017: 26th
2018: 22nd
2019: 9th (lost in NFC Champ Game)
So the Packers didn't just do a bad job of surrounding him with offensive talent, they did a bad job of surrounding him with a good defense. Only 3 times were they top 10, and he wins a Super Bowl the one year he has an elite defense.
This has him 16th: https://www.google.com/amp/s/clutchpoints.com/ranking-the-20-greatest-nfl-quarterbacks-of-all-time/amp/
This has him 14th:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/ftw.usatoday.com/2019/09/nfl-100-best-quarterbacks/amp
The first three articles I find have him ranked significantly lower than I do.
Rodgers is a better QB than Eli. I have never said otherwise.
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Such a meaningless stat. The Packers are a well run organization over the years. Since they drafted Sterling Sharpe in 1988, they have gone WR once in the 1st. Javon Walker in 2002.
It is smarter generally IMO to get WRs in the 2nd and 3rd. The Packers have generally built up the defense with their first round picks since Rodgers. Until drafting Love this year, they have gone D 12 times and OL twice.
"The Packers have built up the defense"
Defensive Rank in Points Allowed
2008: 22nd
2009: 7th (lost 45-51 in playoffs to Cardinals)
2010: 2nd (Super Bowl Champion)
2011: 19th
2012: 11th
2013: 24th
2014: 13th
2015: 12th
2016: 21st
2017: 26th
2018: 22nd
2019: 9th (lost in NFC Champ Game)
So the Packers didn't just do a bad job of surrounding him with offensive talent, they did a bad job of surrounding him with a good defense. Only 3 times were they top 10, and he wins a Super Bowl the one year he has an elite defense.
The Packers were a high scoring team. Those rankings are pretty decent considering the Packers were not a run-oriented, ball control team on offense
Come on guys, be objective, be smarter. While Eli is good enough for HOF consideration (if you want to say he's in, I have no argument), he is not in Rodger's stratosphere. Not in talent or production.
I can’t speak for others, but as I opined above, I would take Eli in his PRIME over Rodgers in his PRIME, with a title on the line. I also said that career-wise Rodgers has clearly been the better overall QB. A first ballot lock.
This has him 16th: https://www.google.com/amp/s/clutchpoints.com/ranking-the-20-greatest-nfl-quarterbacks-of-all-time/amp/
This has him 14th:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/ftw.usatoday.com/2019/09/nfl-100-best-quarterbacks/amp
The first three articles I find have him ranked significantly lower than I do.
You are doing everything you can to justify your reasoning which isn't all that sound and isn't consistent. And some of those sentiments are echoed in the links you posted. Biased writers who aren't scoring things equally.
With that said, I would like to have seen more hardware. He's probably one of the most talented QBs in his generation. I wished the front office and the coaching staff got on the same page more, even now.
got it.
Im forever grateful for the 2 magical runs, but good lord, they aren't close to the same kind of player.
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nfl.com/_amp/top-25-quarterbacks-of-all-time-patriots-tom-brady-leads-list-0ap3000001035041
This has him 16th: https://www.google.com/amp/s/clutchpoints.com/ranking-the-20-greatest-nfl-quarterbacks-of-all-time/amp/
This has him 14th:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/ftw.usatoday.com/2019/09/nfl-100-best-quarterbacks/amp
The first three articles I find have him ranked significantly lower than I do.
You are doing everything you can to justify your reasoning which isn't all that sound and isn't consistent. And some of those sentiments are echoed in the links you posted. Biased writers who aren't scoring things equally.
Lol. Everyone who disagrees with you is biased. I have him at what 6? Hardly a slight against him. If he had achieved another title, he would be higher. It is not because titles are the be-all, end-all. I don’t put Eli above Rodgers or Marino or Brees, because he has two titles. However, I do think Rodgers has largely underachieved in the playoffs based on his talent and the talent of some of the teams he had. I had Brady, Peyton, Montana, Elway, and Marino ahead of him.
Im forever grateful for the 2 magical runs, but good lord, they aren't close to the same kind of player.
Rodgers was magnificent, but I still take pre-toast Eli over Rodgers if I had one game to runs. Oh and btw? Speaking of two magical runs, there is no “one magical run” by Rodgers if we hold on to a 31-10 lead over the Eagles with 7 1/2 minutes to play inthe game.
got it.
He is a surefire HOFer and most certainly a top 10 QB. I think he is overrated because I hear him lauded as higher than I see him. Honestly, after seeing some of the rankings of others that I posted, he seems underrated by many as well. I was surprised to see him that low. Maybe my perception of where he was viewed all time was skewed, and so if experts are viewing him in the 10-15 range, then obviously those experts are under rating him IMO.
Yes, I do think he had underachieved in the playoffs based on his talent, and where I would expect his teams to finish.
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and an all-time top 10 QB, but is overrated and underachieved.
got it.
He is a surefire HOFer and most certainly a top 10 QB. I think he is overrated because I hear him lauded as higher than I see him. Honestly, after seeing some of the rankings of others that I posted, he seems underrated by many as well. I was surprised to see him that low. Maybe my perception of where he was viewed all time was skewed, and so if experts are viewing him in the 10-15 range, then obviously those experts are under rating him IMO.
Yes, I do think he had underachieved in the playoffs based on his talent, and where I would expect his teams to finish.
He hasn’t underachieved whatsoever in the playoffs. Posters above gave you his stats, QB rating and the fact his team was eliminated 3 times in OT without him touching the ball.
I don't get the dislike for him here. He's a lot of fun to watch when he's not playing the Giants.
Nobody said that, did they?
I don't think anyone that disagrees with me is biased. I see how/why the disagree and much like you are doing, are creating an argument that you aren't applying equally across those that you are ranking.
I've explained this countless times on this thread and you've done nothing to prove otherwise.
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In comment 14911556 LBH15 said:
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and an all-time top 10 QB, but is overrated and underachieved.
got it.
He is a surefire HOFer and most certainly a top 10 QB. I think he is overrated because I hear him lauded as higher than I see him. Honestly, after seeing some of the rankings of others that I posted, he seems underrated by many as well. I was surprised to see him that low. Maybe my perception of where he was viewed all time was skewed, and so if experts are viewing him in the 10-15 range, then obviously those experts are under rating him IMO.
Yes, I do think he had underachieved in the playoffs based on his talent, and where I would expect his teams to finish.
He hasn’t underachieved whatsoever in the playoffs. Posters above gave you his stats, QB rating and the fact his team was eliminated 3 times in OT without him touching the ball.
So, a 15-1 team getting crushed at home while not even making the Super Bowl is not underachieving? We will have to agree to disagree on that. He didn’t touch the ball in overtime in some games, but did he touch the ball in regulation to make sure they didn’t go to OT? Again, based on his talent and his teams, I would expect better results overall in the playoffs
Please go to the same lengths to pick apart Marino and Elway's post season careers. Add Drew Brees to that list. Ohh, and add in Peyton, he's had some duds with elite teams.
I don't think anyone that disagrees with me is biased. I see how/why the disagree and much like you are doing, are creating an argument that you aren't applying equally across those that you are ranking.
I've explained this countless times on this thread and you've done nothing to prove otherwise.
My criteria is simply which QB would I take if I am starting a franchise. It’s hard to do and that’s why there are varying opinions. I don’t have titles as the be-all, end-all. But I do take the playoffs into consideration as to how they do in big games.
For example, I don’t have Eli close to Rodgers. If I get to the big game, I might. But Eli wasn’t close to a Rodgers to even get me there in the first place.
In my opinion, when you talk about the all-time greats in my lifetime in Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Montana, Brady, Peyton, Elway, his underachievement in the playoffs separates him.
The original question was whether Rodgers was in the top 5. IMO he wasn’t, because I can think of 5 QBs I would rather take. If the question was if he was top 10, then I would say most certainly, as he is about at 6 of the QBs as I would rank them, and I can’t imagine there being 4 better QBs from before my time, as it was a completely different game back then anyway.
We will just conclude that, in your view, Rodgers is an all-time great who should have done more. And Eli should have done less.
As far as the off the field stuff, he's a diva but a lot of great players can be divas. Scottie Pippen still refuses to admit sitting out on a final play that wasn't called for him was a mistake. Rodgers has been a hard player to coach but there are still 32 coaches + 32 GMs who would go back and draft him at any pick they could if they had the chance.
As far as the off the field stuff, he's a diva but a lot of great players can be divas. Scottie Pippen still refuses to admit sitting out on a final play that wasn't called for him was a mistake. Rodgers has been a hard player to coach but there are still 32 coaches + 32 GMs who would go back and draft him at any pick they could if they had the chance.
What? from 2008 through 2019 he played had 2 seasons where he missed significant time. In 2 others he played 15 games, the rest all 16.
The guy is a sure fire HOFer, dooshbag or not.
Aaron Rodgers stats - ( New Window )
Rodgers is not allowed to ever be blamed for his team's failure to get the hardware. Every season excuse after excuse is marshaled for him, like fucking clockwork. This is how it is for some players. Others get the opposite treatment. When this amazing player and his team falls short in big games, it is always something besides his play which will be focused on.
In the 2010 title run, the Pack defense beat the third string Bears QB in the title game, I believe the winning score was a D lineman pick six? Fumble? Rodgers was carried to this victory in the NFC title game. This is not a knock, just the truth. Team sport.
Personally, I don't hold winning only one title against him. It is some rarefied air to be a QB that leads his team twice to the promised land by cutting through the NFL's best each time.
Pack invested in rookie QB, interesting.
He's a clinical technician, throws an extremely accurate ball, and is able to move the pocket with his legs. Yet, he's just a boring player to watch for me, though. I can't think of any really big, historical type games that I remember him starring in, like I do for some other QB's.
But it's true, his teams are always in the playoffs. He's probably the main reason for it.
But still, don't know why, that's just how I feel. It's almost like he's a WAY better version of Tony Romo, yet Romo was more fun to watch. I know that's a strange take.
Please go to the same lengths to pick apart Marino and Elway's post season careers. Add Drew Brees to that list. Ohh, and add in Peyton, he's had some duds with elite teams.
On the other hand, I could ask you to go to the same lengths to discredit some of those players teammates (FYI I have Rodgers above Brees), as you guys have gone to discredit Rodgers’ teammates. I saw no defensive breakdown rankings of the Broncos, Colts, Dolphins, or Saints. I saw no one trying to downplay a WR core of Jennings, Nelson, Driver, Jones, and Cobb because none of them was picked in the first round.
The question again was in he top 5. I have him 6 of what I’ve seen. It’s hardly a huge difference. If you have him at 4 or 5, so be it. It’s a matter of opinion, Obviously a lot of experts have him ranked a lot lower than I do.
Rodgers being a dick also overshadows the good he's done outside of football, something i never see talked about. His time/money investment in cancer research and in the Wisconsin communities should be discussed more.
The Eli-sentiments really cloud things up for some on here.
Many of the posts above compare Rodgers vs. his peers. Osi's post is a great breakdown of his playoff success vs the rest.
But what's your point, that all the other QB's had poor roster construction too?
The Eli-sentiments really cloud things up for some on here.
It's a personal opinion, and not based on Eli in the slightest. I actually compared him to Romo, so don't make up arguments that don't exist.
That's not a type of football I find exciting. I find it fairly boring.
I gave him credit where it was due, but I do not find him, or the Packers, all that exciting to watch.
The only difference is that people also love to praise toughness and Favre was the ultimate iron man so that sort of become his dominant storyline. More people talk about his toughness than how he used to break his receivers fingers with his arm strength.
What legendary Packers games to you see replayed that Rodgers QB'd? Even his Superbowl game never really gets replayed, and frankly, I don't even remember that much about it.
That's my point. If you put down the pitchfork, you might see it.
Boring to watch? Unreal. I don't like LeBron James but he's certainly not boring.
Exactly.
Was scrolling for it...here it is
What's his... "moment" so to say? I can think of a lot of QB's, even non-HOF ones, that have one.... But Rodgers does not come to mind very often, if at all.
Let’s not carry this further as it may be more ridiculous than saying the #6 all-time QB underachieved.
We need ESPN replays to verify greatness? Haha.
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Gay scene?
Was scrolling for it...here it is
LOL...Yeah I couldn't believe no one else used it
He's a statistical champion and HOF'er.
That's what he will be remembered for, IMO, his gaudy stats.
He's a statistical champion and HOF'er.
That's what he will be remembered for, IMO, his gaudy stats.
I said he underachieved in the playoffs. And I stand by that. IMO, he should have more than 1 SB with the talent he has, and the team he was surrounded with. Some are so all over his nuts like he is the greatest QB to ever play, but get all pissed off when you question him winning only a single SB.
Oh, that's right. The Packers GM waited to draft Pro Bowl WRs in the 2nd round.
Before he won a championship, and for some time after if I remember correctly, he was considered to be a stat padder. He would hold onto the ball too long, or take a sack, to avoid throwing the ball away.