Obviously, his career isn't over. (Although, he does seem on the decline.) So, things may change, but if his career ended today, what would Rodger's legacy be?
It seems like he's been riding the top spot at QB for a decade now and still only has one ring to show for it. Has he underachieved or was he overrated?
He's the lifetime passer rating champ. He won 2 league MVPs, a Bert Bell Award, made 8 pro bowls and two all pro teams. In 12 years as a starter his team has only missed the playoffs 3 times. He's only thrown more than 10 interceptions in a season twice in his career. 47,000 passing yards, 364 TD, 84 INT, 3,000 rushing yards, 28 RushTD
At the same time, he only has one ring. Same as Joe Flacco. Obviously, very different players, but in terms of success...
Where do you place him all time? It seemed like he was destined to be one of if not the best ever. But winning matters. It seems like Brady is the GOAT by far now. Where does that leave Rodgers? Is he even a top 5 QB of all time?
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An the all-time great clutch throw.
Your bizarre take is either flailing bias or ignorance. It's certainly not rooted in reality.
Before he won a championship, and for some time after if I remember correctly, he was considered to be a stat padder. He would hold onto the ball too long, or take a sack, to avoid throwing the ball away.
That might be your viewpoint but then it must surely be applied to his peers, no? What's Tom Brady been doing all these years dinking and dunking - low risk throws to mitigate turnovers? Has Brees padded stats?
Rodgers has a higher YPA than Brady both in their careers and peak seasons. So what would you classify Brady as?
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when throwing an insanely high number of TD's vs. an extremely low number of INT's was novel, and jumped out. Guys are doing that more and more, but he was the first. That's his contribution.
Before he won a championship, and for some time after if I remember correctly, he was considered to be a stat padder. He would hold onto the ball too long, or take a sack, to avoid throwing the ball away.
That might be your viewpoint but then it must surely be applied to his peers, no? What's Tom Brady been doing all these years dinking and dunking - low risk throws to mitigate turnovers? Has Brees padded stats?
Rodgers has a higher YPA than Brady both in their careers and peak seasons. So what would you classify Brady as?
Hard to classify Brady as anything other than a 6 time Superbowl champion. I think a few of those were pretty memorable, too, and he played a big part in them.
You said boring and I gave a link of pretty unboring hailmary plays. I can send you other videos but i'm sure you know how to use YouTube.
You aren't doing well in this debate.
We all know he's a 6time champion, I'm debating his style of play. How is Brady not considered a QB that wasnt to mitigate risk or padding stats? Brees was a turnover machine that padded stats, is that ok to bring up or no?
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is his signature moment?
You said boring and I gave a link of pretty unboring hailmary plays. I can send you other videos but i'm sure you know how to use YouTube.
You aren't doing well in this debate.
That's your opinion. You are not alone in it.
I am not alone in my opinion, either.
So here we are, just a bunch of guys with different opinions.
He's a statistical champion and HOF'er.
That's what he will be remembered for, IMO, his gaudy stats.
That throw in Dallas was a great play. I don't get all giddy watching Rodgers myself. But, to each their own.
I do love to root against the guy. I figure he is lauded and immune to accountability from the rest of the sports world. My negativity can help balance it out
I don't root against him when against NFC rivals though.
Priorities.
When your own team is a bottom feeder, you have to create some interest. Rooting against the annoited one works for me.
Guy is an all time talent though.
We all know he's a 6time champion, I'm debating his style of play. How is Brady not considered a QB that wasnt to mitigate risk or padding stats? Brees was a turnover machine that padded stats, is that ok to bring up or no?
It is absolutely fair to say that Brees is in the same boat. Big time stat guy. Big time. I put him much closer to Rodgers than I do Brady.
As far as memorable games, memorable moments, signature plays, big games, legendary games... I can think of a TON for Tom Brady. A TON.
Before he won a championship, and for some time after if I remember correctly, he was considered to be a stat padder. He would hold onto the ball too long, or take a sack, to avoid throwing the ball away.
Those insane numbers of touchdowns were boring as shit I guess.
I've stated my case and backed it up with data. Time for me to go now.
Yeah, boring.
But he more than made up for it in the playoffs.
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I said he was boring.
He's a statistical champion and HOF'er.
That's what he will be remembered for, IMO, his gaudy stats.
I said he underachieved in the playoffs. And I stand by that. IMO, he should have more than 1 SB with the talent he has, and the team he was surrounded with. Some are so all over his nuts like he is the greatest QB to ever play, but get all pissed off when you question him winning only a single SB.
Oh, that's right. The Packers GM waited to draft Pro Bowl WRs in the 2nd round.
You again? We have already moved onto the boring segment of the Rodgers criticism.
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In comment 14911639 Britt in VA said:
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I said he was boring.
He's a statistical champion and HOF'er.
That's what he will be remembered for, IMO, his gaudy stats.
I said he underachieved in the playoffs. And I stand by that. IMO, he should have more than 1 SB with the talent he has, and the team he was surrounded with. Some are so all over his nuts like he is the greatest QB to ever play, but get all pissed off when you question him winning only a single SB.
Oh, that's right. The Packers GM waited to draft Pro Bowl WRs in the 2nd round.
You again? We have already moved onto the boring segment of the Rodgers criticism.
Surprised you had time to come up for air after being on Rodgers' nuts like that. What's that mess on your chin?
Gotcha. So it can't be a "regular season" game, even though that was a fucking stupendous throw by one of the great arms in NFL history.
So you being consistent, and totally not merely an Eli Manning bootlicker...we can't count Eli's first win vs Dallas, or the Denver comeback, or the TB 500 yard game, or 08 Pittsburgh away win, or the 06 Plax comeback game in Philly, or the week 17 loss to the Pats, or the 2011 JPP FG block game. Just regular season games, some vs mediocre or worse teams.
Regular season games. "Eh."
We all know this absurd take is rooted in Eli Manning adulation. Despite the objective fact that Rodgers is miles better as a QB than Manning and with any number of huge moments, you are clinging to the "Rodgers is boring/Rodgers doesn't have big moments & signature plays" tripe.
Translation: Eli Manning does! Remember Tyree guys? Remember Manning to Manningham? THE UNDEFEATED 18-0 PATS! Remember guys??
Boring and transparent.
But not brought Eli into the conversation.
I can actually feel this way about Rodgers independently of what I think of Eli Manning.
That is possible.
Yeah, boring.
You want to continue this line of thinking? Look up above at Rodgers’ stats in the playoffs. Assume most of those were non divisional games but don’t recall exactly as they were too boring to watch.
But he more than made up for it in the playoffs.
At least Brady won his shitty division.
That’s not what it was. The debate was regarding why the downplaying of one of the greatest of all time at QB.
bahahahahahahaha
I'd rank Rodgers 4th in terms of career behind Brady/Peyton/Brees and #3 in terms of Peak play behind Brady/Peyton, although I could see an argument for him as #1 in terms of peak.
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Do you want to have a debate or do you want everybody to just fall in line with your line of thinking that Rodgers is the best ever?
That’s not what it was. The debate was regarding why the downplaying of one of the greatest of all time at QB.
No the debate was whether Rodgers was top 5. Some get butthurt if you don't feel Rodgers is definitive top 5 and view that as downplaying. When you get to debating the greats, you resort to nitpicking things. I don't view it as downplaying.
I'd rank Rodgers 4th in terms of career behind Brady/Peyton/Brees and #3 in terms of Peak play behind Brady/Peyton, although I could see an argument for him as #1 in terms of peak.
Not Britt, but you rank Rodgers even lower than I would. Since 2000, I would put him behind only Peyton and Brady. I take Rodgers over Brees. Better not let those Rodgers lovers see this one. 4th in the past two decades?
Ryan came into the league 3 years after Rodgers but Rodgers was under Favre first couple of seasons. While IMO Rodgers is clearly the better QB there were some interesting aspects to this. I'm going to list the stat and who wins the category:
Games Played - Ryan by 8
Wins as a Starter - Rodgers by 4
Losses as a starter - Rodgers has 20 less
Winning % -
Roders = .652%
Ryan = .577%
Pass complications - Ryan by 547
Pass attempts - Ryan by 756
Completion % -
Rodgers = 64.6%
Ryan = 65.4%
Passing yards - Ryan by 4240
TD Passes - Rodgers by 43
TD % -
Rodgers = 6.0%
Ryan = 4.7%
Interceptions - Rodgers has 63 less
Int. % -
Rodgers = 1.4%
Ryan = 2.2%
Game-Winning Drives - Ryan has 15 more than Rodgers
Yards per Pass attempt -
Rodgers = 7.7
Ryan = 7.5
Adjusted Yards per Pass Attempt -
Rodgers = 8.3
Ryan = 7.5
Yards gained per completion -
Rodgers - 12
Ryan - 11.5
Yards per game -
Rodgers = 259.4
Ryan = 270.8
QBR -
Rodgers = 102.4
Ryan = 94.6
There are some surprising stats here. Game-winning drives really sticks out but so does the difference in TDs, losses, and Interceptions. I feel Rodgers is clearly the better QB based just on these stats but they don't take into account the outliers such as Defense, Weapons on Offense, Weather (has to be a huge factor given GB's climate), and of course coaching decisions
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among QBs since 2000? In terms of career but also in terms of them at their best?
I'd rank Rodgers 4th in terms of career behind Brady/Peyton/Brees and #3 in terms of Peak play behind Brady/Peyton, although I could see an argument for him as #1 in terms of peak.
Not Britt, but you rank Rodgers even lower than I would. Since 2000, I would put him behind only Peyton and Brady. I take Rodgers over Brees. Better not let those Rodgers lovers see this one. 4th in the past two decades?
Yeah, I think this is a fair assessment.
I can actually feel this way about Rodgers independently of what I think of Eli Manning.
That is possible.
No, it's not. It dominates your football mind, which you've proven over & over with any number of hysterical & hyper-emotional posts related to Manning.
Would you count Eli to Nicks playoff hail mary as a "moment"? (We all know the answer to that).
But Rodgers' playoff hail mary to Cobb vs the Giants doesn't count as a "moment". Got it.
Or did you just forget about that one? What a "boring" play, too.
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I can actually feel this way about Rodgers independently of what I think of Eli Manning.
That is possible.
No, it's not. It dominates your football mind, which you've proven over & over with any number of hysterical & hyper-emotional posts related to Manning.
Would you count Eli to Nicks playoff hail mary as a "moment"? (We all know the answer to that).
But Rodgers' playoff hail mary to Cobb vs the Giants doesn't count as a "moment". Got it.
Or did you just forget about that one? What a "boring" play, too.
Yes, I would. Just as I would count Aaron Rodger's hail mary against the Giants in 2016 as a moment.
A playoff moment. Memorable. There's one for Rodgers. A hail mary against the 4-8 lions, sorry, I don't count that.
"if at all".
He in fact does now come to mind. What else will change as the bizarre take continues to be boxed in by reality...
The other guys I don't need to be reminded of... They had legendary memorable games that everybody remembers.
Rodgers always had a pretty solid offense, now a lot of that had to do with Rodgers being pretty damn good, but he had teams that were set up to win championships. Same arguments can be said with regards to Brees. When you look back at the gaudy numbers, MVP's and yet only winning one championship, that should certainly be taken into consideration.
Rodgers always had a pretty solid offense, now a lot of that had to do with Rodgers being pretty damn good, but he had teams that were set up to win championships. Same arguments can be said with regards to Brees. When you look back at the gaudy numbers, MVP's and yet only winning one championship, that should certainly be taken into consideration.
But what about Peyton? He only won 1 Super Bowl a truly valuble starting QB and got carried to his 2nd one by Von Miller/Ware and the Broncos defense. Even with the Colts, that SB run had more to do with Bob Sanders/Colts D than it did Peyton.
So if Rodgers performed well below-average for a season but rode the coattails of a dominant D to a Super Bowl win, would it somehow change the outlook of his career?
Down 20-3 in the 4th against the eventual 12-4 Bears. Gets injured, then returns to light up Chicago and win 24-23.
Wait...regular season game so doesn't count as a "moment".
24/39, 304yds, 3 TD, 0 Int, Super Bowl MVP. Not really "memorable". Boring. Needs more Manning to Tyree.
Yawn.
Ironically, Manning's against Green Bay was a mirror image.
However, when I think of 2011, I don't think of the Manning to Nicks Hail Mary as the premier signature play of that season. Yes, it was memorable, but it's probably not in the top 5 and maybe not even in the top 10, arguably, of memorable plays from that season.
My point remains.
And I can do that for other QB's too, that are not Manning, but since YOU are fixating on Manning now I'll just leave it at that.
Down 20-3 in the 4th against the eventual 12-4 Bears. Gets injured, then returns to light up Chicago and win 24-23.
Wait...regular season game so doesn't count as a "moment".
24/39, 304yds, 3 TD, 0 Int, Super Bowl MVP. Not really "memorable". Boring. Needs more Manning to Tyree.
Yawn.
Bears games don’t count...shitty division remember?
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But what has come out in recent years about Rodgers and undermining his coach, being a dick to his teammates, has to put a bit of a stain on his legacy.
Rodgers always had a pretty solid offense, now a lot of that had to do with Rodgers being pretty damn good, but he had teams that were set up to win championships. Same arguments can be said with regards to Brees. When you look back at the gaudy numbers, MVP's and yet only winning one championship, that should certainly be taken into consideration.
But what about Peyton? He only won 1 Super Bowl a truly valuble starting QB and got carried to his 2nd one by Von Miller/Ware and the Broncos defense. Even with the Colts, that SB run had more to do with Bob Sanders/Colts D than it did Peyton.
So if Rodgers performed well below-average for a season but rode the coattails of a dominant D to a Super Bowl win, would it somehow change the outlook of his career?
Not saying Peyton doesn't deserve his own criticism, but he got to the big game quite a few times in his career and for the most part, had to go through Brady to get there. Rodgers made it to one, just one super bowl.
Again, just my opinion.
Who's had more "moments"...Robert Horry or Tim Duncan?
24/39, 304yds, 3 TD, 0 Int, Super Bowl MVP vs the #1 ranked defense in the NFL. But no Tyree so not memorable.
Again, just my opinion.
No, that's about right.
He's statistically an all time great. He's getting in. Will be first ballot.
He just never excited me as a player. A lot of other QB, had more memorable games and careers than he did. That's my opinion.
To me, he represents the major shift that occured in the league to make passing the ball more advantageous. To his credit, he took it and ran with it. He was the first, really, of a new breed of QB's that emerged post 2006 rule changes. Mahomes is another. They will have MONSTER stats when it's all said and done.
But I've said since Day 1, it's the playoffs and hardware that separate the good from the great. And it's why I think Tom Brady is superior to Peyton Manning. Brady is the Goat, and then everybody else, except maybe Montana who is probably 1b in my book, is a distant second.
The underlying point goes to some of themes in this thread
This is beyond a stupid point no offnense to your friend. I’ve heard this before. Look at how many second round WRs they have drafted. He also inherited driver, Nelson and Gregg Jennings. The guy has been blessed with a very talented offense for years. He took over a team that went to the NFC championship game and won a ring with that same squad 2 years later.
BB56 said it best, he’s Marino with the ring. No need to find random “stats” to justify his greatness. He’s a dickhead but one of the best QBs I’ve ever seen.
I know what Eli did and meant TO ME, and we all do as Giants fans.
But if we're discussing Top 5 all time, or top 5 of the past 20 years or whatever....
The thing I remember most about Aaron Rodgers are his stats. Point blank.
His legacy will be that he was a terrific football player, a huge star, and an asshole.
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Aaron Rodgers has thrown over 360 touchdowns, and only ONE has ever gone to a first round pick.
The underlying point goes to some of themes in this thread
This is beyond a stupid point no offnense to your friend. I’ve heard this before. Look at how many second round WRs they have drafted. He also inherited driver, Nelson and Gregg Jennings. The guy has been blessed with a very talented offense for years. He took over a team that went to the NFC championship game and won a ring with that same squad 2 years later.
BB56 said it best, he’s Marino with the ring. No need to find random “stats” to justify his greatness. He’s a dickhead but one of the best QBs I’ve ever seen.
Could also be that Rodgers has played his entire career with the Packers and they haven't drafted a WR in the first in almost 20 years.
Just looked at all of the first rounders that the Packers have drafted since Rodgers. They only drafted three on offense. Two OT's and Jordan Love this past year. This is definitely making the argument that Rodgers has made those around him better, but it's not like he never had talent around him.