Obviously, his career isn't over. (Although, he does seem on the decline.) So, things may change, but if his career ended today, what would Rodger's legacy be?
It seems like he's been riding the top spot at QB for a decade now and still only has one ring to show for it. Has he underachieved or was he overrated?
He's the lifetime passer rating champ. He won 2 league MVPs, a Bert Bell Award, made 8 pro bowls and two all pro teams. In 12 years as a starter his team has only missed the playoffs 3 times. He's only thrown more than 10 interceptions in a season twice in his career. 47,000 passing yards, 364 TD, 84 INT, 3,000 rushing yards, 28 RushTD
At the same time, he only has one ring. Same as Joe Flacco. Obviously, very different players, but in terms of success...
Where do you place him all time? It seemed like he was destined to be one of if not the best ever. But winning matters. It seems like Brady is the GOAT by far now. Where does that leave Rodgers? Is he even a top 5 QB of all time?
Except Rodgers has a ring. And he played phenomenally in that Super Bowl. So the Karl Malone/Dan Marino argument doesn't apply to him at all.
24/39, 304yds, 3 TD, 0 Int vs the #1 defense are just "stats", we get it. Mildly relevant, however, when analyzing whether a player is great or merely "good".
Tom Brady threw for 5235 yards, 39 TDs, 65.6 comp%, and led the Pats to a 13-3 record and the 3rd best offense in the league
Rodgers won the league MVP with 48/50 votes and was 1st team All-Pro QB with 47.5/50 votes, Brees picking up the remaining votes
2011 was the best regular season of Drew Brees' career and one of the top 5 of Brady's, and yet everybody kind of came to the conclusion that Aaron Rodgers was CLEARLY better than them in that season. That's how good Aaron Rodgers at his best felt. His combination of throwing power and accuracy, both in the pocket and on the run, was unfair.
His 2010 playoff run is the best sustained stretch of QB playoff play I've personally ever seen. The stats don't do it justice. His game against the Falcons in the Divisional Round that year is maybe the best game I've ever seen a QB play. And then he was excellent against a dominant Steelers defense in the Super Bowl. He wasn't along for the ride during that Super Bowl, he was the ride.
Having one of the best playoff runs ('10) and regular seasons ('11) I've seen from a QB, I'll always have Aaron Rodgers very high on my list. Peak Aaron Rodgers during those years might be the best QB ever in my book.
Injuries and lack of playoff success since '10 have hurt him. But the Packers were never built as well as the Saints or Pats or even the Colts when Peyton was there, Rodgers just made it work. Even the last two years where people say he's declined, he's thrown 51 TDs and 6 INTs over his last 32 games.
I do think one fair knock on him is that he's too conservative. Like I said, 51 TDs and 6 INTs these last two years but if he was a little more aggressive his offenses could've been better even if his TD:INT ratio wasn't quite as pristine.
Overall, I rank him only below Brady and Peyton among QBs of the last 20 years. Ahead of Brees. I think historically Steve Young is probably the most similar type of QB, GOAT stats but not quite in the GOAT convo due to longevity/durability/good but not great playoff success.
Is he douche? Yes. But at the same time if you've followed the stories, his family and especially his brother are annoying as fuck too. Some people have issues with family, since I don't know any of the details it's not my place to call Rodgers an asshole for not wanting to talk to his family. And Rodgers being a douche makes him far from the only great QB to be one. Peyton sexually assaulted a trainer in college and was a whiny loser for most of his career throwing teammates under the bus. Dan Marino was a notorious piece of shit party animal in Miami. The list goes on. Rodgers being a douche doesn't mean anything to me when it comes to his place all-time.
And if they held the NFL MVP voting at the end of the season (meaning AFTER the super bowl) Eli Manning would have won it in 2011.
But the question is what is the guy's legacy, how he'll be remembered. That's a more complicated question. The way he's being talked about here, it's like he's the greatest all time.
I don't even think he's the greatest Packer QB of all time, let alone in the top 5 of the NFL all time. He may not even be top 10 all time in the NFL, based on intangibles.
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Aaron Rodgers has thrown over 360 touchdowns, and only ONE has ever gone to a first round pick.
The underlying point goes to some of themes in this thread
This is beyond a stupid point no offnense to your friend. I’ve heard this before. Look at how many second round WRs they have drafted. He also inherited driver, Nelson and Gregg Jennings. The guy has been blessed with a very talented offense for years. He took over a team that went to the NFC championship game and won a ring with that same squad 2 years later.
BB56 said it best, he’s Marino with the ring. No need to find random “stats” to justify his greatness. He’s a dickhead but one of the best QBs I’ve ever seen.
You’re taking it too far. See points above.
But the question is what is the guy's legacy, how he'll be remembered. That's a more complicated question. The way he's being talked about here, it's like he's the greatest all time.
I don't even think he's the greatest Packer QB of all time, let alone in the top 5 of the NFL all time. He may not even be top 10 all time in the NFL, based on intangibles.
Missed it again. This wasn’t about debating him as the single greatest, but he certainly is an all time great, not an underachiever nor overrated. Nor boring.
You think Aaron Rodgers is a Top 5 QB in the NFL, all time?
But the question is what is the guy's legacy, how he'll be remembered. That's a more complicated question. The way he's being talked about here, it's like he's the greatest all time.
I don't even think he's the greatest Packer QB of all time, let alone in the top 5 of the NFL all time. He may not even be top 10 all time in the NFL, based on intangibles.
I take Favre over Rodgers. Easy
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He's getting in. First ballot. Said that three times on this thread.
But the question is what is the guy's legacy, how he'll be remembered. That's a more complicated question. The way he's being talked about here, it's like he's the greatest all time.
I don't even think he's the greatest Packer QB of all time, let alone in the top 5 of the NFL all time. He may not even be top 10 all time in the NFL, based on intangibles.
I take Favre over Rodgers. Easy
All day, every day. And Marino, too. Even without the ring.
Missed it again. This wasn’t about debating him as the single greatest, but he certainly is an all time great, not an underachiever nor overrated. Nor boring.
See this is where the disagreement comes into play. To the OP's question and the biggest problem I have with Rodgers is for all the gaudy numbers he has put up, multiple MVP's, he has only has one Super Bowl. He has been to a number of championship games, but only elevated his game during the playoffs in that 2010 run. So if his career ended today, considering how good some of his teams were, in my opinion, he underachieved by only getting to the big game once.
He was an awesome player but all his back-breaking INTs in those clutch moments keep me from choosing him above Rodgers in a question of who I'd rather have at their best.
Favre's longevity gives him the edge, but Rodgers at his best was a little better imo.
He was an awesome player but all his back-breaking INTs in those clutch moments keep me from choosing him above Rodgers in a question of who I'd rather have at their best.
Favre's longevity gives him the edge, but Rodgers at his best was a little better imo.
I loved watching Favre. I also think the NFL was different most of his career. Guy also never missed a game and he almost brought the Vikes to the Super Bowl. Yeah he had that critical pick like you said, but Peterson had fumbles etc. and he took a fucking beating.
I take Favre, but he is one of my favorite QB's. Marino too, who I really do think would be on an absurd level if his prime was today.
You think Aaron Rodgers is a Top 5 QB in the NFL, all time?
I certainly don’t have some kind of set ranking, mostly because it’s very difficult to do so because of how game has changed. But if we are choosing up sides, I would call his name fairly early.
I am not even really a fan of Rodgers as much as some other current QBs but his is undeniably one of the best to play QB now and ever. And the lack of objectivity when discussing him on this site is something I find ridiculous. You may think otherwise, but it’s the case.
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in late-game situations.
He was an awesome player but all his back-breaking INTs in those clutch moments keep me from choosing him above Rodgers in a question of who I'd rather have at their best.
Favre's longevity gives him the edge, but Rodgers at his best was a little better imo.
I loved watching Favre. I also think the NFL was different most of his career. Guy also never missed a game and he almost brought the Vikes to the Super Bowl. Yeah he had that critical pick like you said, but Peterson had fumbles etc. and he took a fucking beating.
I take Favre, but he is one of my favorite QB's. Marino too, who I really do think would be on an absurd level if his prime was today.
And that's it! Right there! Favre had many memorable games, memorable moments, nail biters of games, legendary games, all of it. Win or lose, they were exciting, edge of your seat entertainment, and he was at the center of it.
I never got that from Rodgers. That rubs some of you the wrong way, sorry. As a contemporary example, I find Ben Roethlisberger to be a more exciting QB to watch than Rodgers. Luck was like that too. They just have something... different about them, something gritty.
But even for his era, he just felt like a turnover machine in bigtime spots so I've never considered him a Top 5 guy.
I agree that Marino would be amazing in this era. I actually think Marino reminds me of a lot of Tom Brady in terms of being so good at throwing intermediate rockets that are perfectly accurate. I think he would have been amazing in a modern offense with his release and accuracy, even if he'd be lacking some mobility.
The great ones still need teams built around them to win Super Bowls. Giants cost him one ring in 2011, his team didn't show up around him.
But when I think of memorable moments, legendary games of the past 20 years, I can think of a long list before I probably get to one that Aaron Rodgers was featured in. And the top one that I can think of for Rodgers, to me, was the 2009 return to Lambeau of Brett Favre as a Viking on MNF.
Speaking of "memorable" moments: here's one from Favre (I love, by the way, how biased the commentator in this video is). One of the worst throws in modern NFL history.
And talk about forgettable Super Bowls...sandwiched between Elway's 2 then Kevin Dyson and the NFC East dominance. I bet most Pats fans don't even remember XXXI.
Favre was also Anthony Weiner before Anthony Weiner, since we're accounting for Rodgers' supposed character flaws.
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Missed it again. This wasn’t about debating him as the single greatest, but he certainly is an all time great, not an underachiever nor overrated. Nor boring.
See this is where the disagreement comes into play. To the OP's question and the biggest problem I have with Rodgers is for all the gaudy numbers he has put up, multiple MVP's, he has only has one Super Bowl. He has been to a number of championship games, but only elevated his game during the playoffs in that 2010 run. So if his career ended today, considering how good some of his teams were, in my opinion, he underachieved by only getting to the big game once.
His playoff numbers are excellent. Tell me what games that he let GB down?
But when I think of memorable moments, legendary games of the past 20 years, I can think of a long list before I probably get to one that Aaron Rodgers was featured in. And the top one that I can think of for Rodgers, to me, was the 2009 return to Lambeau of Brett Favre as a Viking on MNF.
I think it’s you.
Speaking of "memorable" moments: here's one from Favre (I love, by the way, how biased the commentator in this video is). One of the worst throws in modern NFL history.
And talk about forgettable Super Bowls...sandwiched between Elway's 2 then Kevin Dyson and the NFC East dominance. I bet most Pats fans don't even remember XXXI.
Favre was also Anthony Weiner before Anthony Weiner, since we're accounting for Rodgers' supposed character flaws.
WTF? Anthony Weiner??? Sterger was 25 years old. Weiner went to prison for transferring obscene material to a minor, a 15 year old. Big freaking difference.
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decade. That could be it. Maybe Rodgers style of play just doesn't appeal to me, as I see it more as finesse. His video game like arm strength and accuracy are great, no doubt. That could be on me.
But when I think of memorable moments, legendary games of the past 20 years, I can think of a long list before I probably get to one that Aaron Rodgers was featured in. And the top one that I can think of for Rodgers, to me, was the 2009 return to Lambeau of Brett Favre as a Viking on MNF.
I think it’s you.
Well, you can think that, but I'm clearly not alone on this thread, let alone out here in the wild.
Scummy weirdos sending uninvited dick pics. Obviously Weiner's, yes, has an added layer of depravity.
Favre's a scumbag.
Because Favre is boring I guess.
Yeah why? it is an opinion. Both are great, personally, I like Favre better. Also, when I watch Rodgers I do not see much that puts him over Elway, Marino, even Favre in terms of exciting or amazing play. Rodgers is great, but to my eye, just me on my couch, I dont see what puts Rodgers game, in terms of entertainment, above those guys.
But, that is an opinion, everybody's got em.
In the 14 playoff games Rodgers had in seasons where the Packers did NOT win the Super Bowl, his numbers are better than Brady's stats in the 18 games that make up Brady's 6 Super Bowl runs. Yet, while "Brady" obviously went 18-0, "Rodgers" went 6-8. it's only a superficial look at performance, but I think it helps illustrate how many other variables go into winning championships and winning big games.
In terms of memorable moments, one I can think of is the 4th and 20 with a minute left from his own end zone against the Cardinals in the playoffs that went for a game-tying touchdown. Unfortunately, the Cardinals scored on the opening drive of OT and so Rodgers' game-tying drive has an Endy Chavez like note to it.
Someone put together this 10-minute montage of clutch moments by Rodgers (late game drives), and some of these throws and plays are just jaw-dropping.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHPMeIEDaJM - ( New Window )
At Rodgers pace he would have to play like 500 more games to match Favre's interception numbers, and like 70 more to match his TDs (someone can correct my math there).
At Rodgers pace he would have to play like 500 more games to match Favre's interception numbers, and like 70 more to match his TDs (someone can correct my math there).
I' ll say one thing about Rodgers, and this is no brillant analysis, guy just doesn't throw picks.
Brett Favre won the MVP in 3 consecutive seasons, 1995, 96, and 97.
In those three seasons, the Packers went to the NFC Championship all three times, only losing the first one. So in addition to the regular season combined record of 37-11, they also had a playoff record during that three game stretch of 7-2 during that time. They went to two consecutive Superbowls, winning one.
In all three seasons, consecutively, Brett Favre led the NFL in TD's.
Has Rodgers ever had a three year stretch like that in his career?
Brett Favre won the MVP in 3 consecutive seasons, 1995, 96, and 97.
In those three seasons, the Packers went to the NFC Championship all three times, only losing the first one. So in addition to the regular season combined record of 37-11, they also had a playoff record during that three game stretch of 7-2 during that time. They went to two consecutive Superbowls, winning one.
In all three seasons, consecutively, Brett Favre led the NFL in TD's.
Has Rodgers ever had a three year stretch like that in his career?
Was it 3 in a row or 3 out of 4? I thought it was 3 out of 4, but you’re younger and sharper... :)
But Favre had an excellent defense during those seasons. Much better than any defenses Rodgers has had. You had Reggie White still absolutely dominating and Leroy Butler was a top Safety at the time.
Brett Favre won the MVP in 3 consecutive seasons, 1995, 96, and 97.
In those three seasons, the Packers went to the NFC Championship all three times, only losing the first one. So in addition to the regular season combined record of 37-11, they also had a playoff record during that three game stretch of 7-2 during that time. They went to two consecutive Superbowls, winning one.
In all three seasons, consecutively, Brett Favre led the NFL in TD's.
Has Rodgers ever had a three year stretch like that in his career?
Cherry picking a 3 year stretch to compare the careers of these two QBs? Why not just compare the careers?
But Favre had an excellent defense during those seasons. Much better than any defenses Rodgers has had. You had Reggie White still absolutely dominating and Leroy Butler was a top Safety at the time.
I think you could argue that he was facing much better defenses, as well.
The NFL was much different then. One could argue much harder for offense and not nearly as skewed towards offense as Rodgers has had it.
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and if we're talking "peak" performance of the two players...
Brett Favre won the MVP in 3 consecutive seasons, 1995, 96, and 97.
In those three seasons, the Packers went to the NFC Championship all three times, only losing the first one. So in addition to the regular season combined record of 37-11, they also had a playoff record during that three game stretch of 7-2 during that time. They went to two consecutive Superbowls, winning one.
In all three seasons, consecutively, Brett Favre led the NFL in TD's.
Has Rodgers ever had a three year stretch like that in his career?
Cherry picking a 3 year stretch to compare the careers of these two QBs? Why not just compare the careers?
The "peak' concept has been brought up several times in this thread. That "peak" Rodgers is arguably the greatest all time.
So I'm not cherry picking, I just showed you that "peak" Rodgers isn't even the greatest Green Bay QB of all time, backing up a point I made earlier.
Career high 13 Int's for Rodgers and only hit double digits 1 other time (11). Favre met or exceeded 13 INT's in 18 seasons and had 20+ in 6 seasons.
Aaron Rodgers averages 7 INT's per season - I repeat, 7 per season (Favre sometimes achieved this in 2 games).
Rodgers has a higher TD %, Higher YPA, and a turnover ratio that's not even worth comparing. And he was up against 2 (or 3) QB's in this timespan that round out most people's top 10 all time lists.
Yes different eras, but the difference is too vast to ignore. Its not like every good QB was throwing 20+ picks a season in the 90's.
See how juvenile that is?
See how juvenile that is?
Favre is? Yeah, I agree.
('95-'97) -- 37-11 record -- 7-2 playoffs -- 12,179 yards -- 112 TD -- 42 INT -- 96.1 Rating
Pretty damn similar. Sure, Favre's yardage and TD numbers are better relative to era but even with that taken into context it doesn't make up for Rodgers being so much better at taking care of the ball.
Both won 1 Super Bowl during this time period. Favre had 3 MVPs are football's poster boy, deservingly so. But Rodgers had steeper competition for the award and pretty much matched Favre in terms of individual performance and team success.
And in a big game and big moment, I take Rodgers over Favre every day of the week because he's less likely to chuck up an INT when it matters.
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he's the best QB to play in Green Bay "and it isn't close".
See how juvenile that is?
Favre is? Yeah, I agree.
Bart Starr won a few big games too. Doesn’t he count or was that era too boring?
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he's the best QB to play in Green Bay "and it isn't close".
See how juvenile that is?
Favre is? Yeah, I agree.
Yeah well that's think kind of response I've grown to expect from a guy posting like a child. You aren't making any remotely interesting points. Might I say, boring?
I stepped away for the afternoon and came back to just countless posts like this one without a shred of thought/assessment. Congrats on hijacking the thread.