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Chris Simms "DJ had a phenomenal rookie year & blown away"

Big Rick in FL : 5/29/2020 8:21 am
by Daniel Jones talent. Here's the tweet and the article is linked below.

Quote:
@ZackBlatt: Chris Simms thinks Daniel Jones’s rookie year was “phenomenal” and he was “blown away” by his talent.

Here’s more of what @CSimmsQB told me about why he’s so high on the #Giants QB and his potential

Chris Simms on Daniel Jones - ( New Window )
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RE: RE: Give me Darnold and the Jags Josh Allen  
Strahan91 : 5/29/2020 10:59 am : link
In comment 14912980 Toth029 said:
Quote:

If we're doing this, I'd go:

2018 Bradley Chubb & 2019 Drew Lock
or
2018 Josh Allen & 2019 Devin Bush

Are you saying you prefer Drew Lock over Daniel Jones? If so, that's a real head scratcher with the information we currently have at hand.
RE: RE: RE: Give me Darnold and the Jags Josh Allen  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 5/29/2020 11:00 am : link
In comment 14912955 BillT said:
Quote:
In comment 14912949 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 14912943 arniefez said:


Quote:


You can keep Jones and Barkley. I like Jones I thought he was very good for a rookie on a terrible team with a terrible coach. I don't think Darnold is better. I think they're equally qualified to be good starting NFL QBs with different styles and strengths.

But I'll take the pass rushing LB over the RB 100 times out of 100.



Darnold? NFW


Darnold is another guy the jury is still more out on than DJ.

Haley Joe Osmond?
RE: RE: It all boils down to the turnovers  
Strahan91 : 5/29/2020 11:11 am : link
In comment 14913028 ron mexico said:
Quote:
In comment 14912987 AcesUp said:


Quote:


If he can fix the fumble issue, he’ll be a great one. It’s a kind of a big if though. I don’t think it’s the easy fix that’s being advertised on here or in some beat articles. It’s a lot more than grip strength.



In addition to this, it sounds like he needs to be able to beat zone coverage.

But that level of analysis is above my pay grade.

Personally I think this has more to do with Shurmur's playcalling than anything else. When defenses are in zone, it usually leaves short, quick/easy passes open. That's why most QB's are better against zone than man. The fact that he's been so much better against man is actually a big indicator of just how good his ball placement was and IMO is a good sign of his chances going forward.

With that said, there were times when the defense confused Jones IE where he thought they were in man but were really disguising zone coverage. Rookie QBs struggle to read defenses and coordinators try to fool them. The ones with staying power get better at that over time and process things faster. That's the year two jump I'm hoping we see.
I like Chris, but funny how he doesn't mention  
rasbutant : 5/29/2020 11:35 am : link
how down he was on DJ coming into the draft.

"a pick that, at the time, garnered heavy criticism for general manager Dave Gettleman who, it was said, reached by picking Jones earlier than he should have." .....It was said by you Chris! Own up to it.

He had DJ ranked as the 6th! best QB that year.

Tier 1
Murray
Lock
Haskins
Tier 2
Stidham
Finley
Jones
Tier 3
Thorson
Grier
Link - ( New Window )
RE: I'd never heard this stat before  
D HOS : 5/29/2020 11:38 am : link
In comment 14912885 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
Jones is 1 of 6 rookies all time to throw for 3000 yards, 20 TD passes while completing 60% of his passes and have 200 rushing yards.

The other 5 are Russell Wilson, RG3, Dak Prescott, Minshew & Kyler Murray.


Yep! And this is just stats, not reality, but project his stats to a full season and it would have been the #1 rookie QB season ever, stats-wise. That's the level he played at for his 3/4 of a season.
RE: I like Chris, but funny how he doesn't mention  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/29/2020 11:43 am : link
In comment 14913065 rasbutant said:
Quote:
how down he was on DJ coming into the draft.

"a pick that, at the time, garnered heavy criticism for general manager Dave Gettleman who, it was said, reached by picking Jones earlier than he should have." .....It was said by you Chris! Own up to it.

He had DJ ranked as the 6th! best QB that year.

Tier 1
Murray
Lock
Haskins
Tier 2
Stidham
Finley
Jones
Tier 3
Thorson
Grier Link - ( New Window )


He actually fessed up in an NBC YouTube he did... said he was wrong.
RE: Daniel Jones agent believed 3 teams were in the mix  
Jay on the Island : 5/29/2020 12:17 pm : link
In comment 14912997 George from PA said:
Quote:
And he was convinced DJ would not make it to 17.....asshat.

And the other point to consider....who would you rather have Dexter Lawrence or Josh Allen?

Phil Simms has said on numerous occasions that Jones would not have been there at 17. He said to just “trust him” when asked how he knew. Clearly he was told directly from teams that they would have taken Jones.
I wanted them to select Darnold badly in 2018  
Jay on the Island : 5/29/2020 12:20 pm : link
Now I am relieved that they didn’t. While I think Darnold could still become a great QB he hasn’t progressed as I expected and I believe that Jones is the better QB.

This is just a perfect example of why you should never rush to judgement when it comes to draft picks.
I like Daniel Jones  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 5/29/2020 12:22 pm : link
there were so many good things I saw in him as a rookie. He proved he had the arm talent to make bigtime throws, his mobility is clearly an asset, and you can't help but be impressed by his personality.

But I'm really worried about his turnovers. 18 fumbles is insanely high. And although he only had 12 INTs, it really felt like he was a hair away from another half dozen. I think he got lucky when it came to the INTs, there were a lot of risky passes he got away with.

30 combined INTs + Fumbles in 12 starts, and the number could've easily been more than 30. That's scary.

He showed me a lot of good stuff as a rookie, but I'm pretty damn scared about the turnovers. I think he could be a stud if he cleans that up, but that requires A LOT of cleaning up.
RE: I'd never heard this stat before  
LBH15 : 5/29/2020 12:31 pm : link
In comment 14912885 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
Jones is 1 of 6 rookies all time to throw for 3000 yards, 20 TD passes while completing 60% of his passes and have 200 rushing yards.

The other 5 are Russell Wilson, RG3, Dak Prescott, Minshew & Kyler Murray.


Not downplaying it, but if removed the 200 rushing yards, how many more make this list? If you know.
Darnold and Jones are almost exactly the same age  
arniefez : 5/29/2020 12:46 pm : link
both have promising futures that will depend on surrounding teammates, coaches and health. It's way too soon to know what either will be in the NFL. In Eli's 4th season he threw 4 picks vs Vikings and he was being called a bust. 75 days later he was the Super Bowl MVP.

Darnold vs Jones is not my point. My point is about asset allocation, positional value and using the #2 pick draft on a RB. It was a disastrous decision and the Giants record since bears that out. After this year it will get even worse, they're going to pay a RB crazy money.

The Giants stink because their OL and DL are awful. They spent enormous draft capital on the OL this year hopefully that will help. They drafted Lawrence last year with the OBJ pick, traded for Williams last year, signed and drafted several LBs in free agency. Unfortunately none of them are pass rushing difference makers.

simms was not a good qb  
mpinmaine : 5/29/2020 12:47 pm : link
so what he says doesn't carry the weight with me but I think DJ will be around for awhile. wth do i know?
RE: simms was not a good qb  
TrueBlue56 : 5/29/2020 1:16 pm : link
In comment 14913115 mpinmaine said:
Quote:
so what he says doesn't carry the weight with me but I think DJ will be around for awhile. wth do i know?


Jason Garrett was a career back up quarterback and dan orlovsky had a very pedestrian career in the nfl. These are two examples of players that while they weren't great quarterbacks, they are very good at their respective jobs. Doesn't mean they are always right, but their opinions and analysis is pretty good.

Chris Simms is not afraid to give his opinion or admit when he makes a mistake. Just because he didn't have much of a NFL career doesn't mean he should just be dismissed because of that fact. I listen to chris every once in awhile and at times he gives great insight into what he sees and thinks.
Wait wait wait  
Carl in CT : 5/29/2020 1:20 pm : link
Sam Darnold? Mr. Happy Feet? Oh it’s Friday. Someone hitting the pipe early.
With equal shitty teams  
Carl in CT : 5/29/2020 1:28 pm : link
Jones 24 TDs 12 INT and. 88 rating in one year

Darnold 36 TD 28 INT and a 81 rating in two years


Not close! Don’t give me fumbles when he was blindsided unless you give me a QB that is athletic and can run the ball.
RE: I like Daniel Jones  
KDavies : 5/29/2020 2:05 pm : link
In comment 14913094 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
there were so many good things I saw in him as a rookie. He proved he had the arm talent to make bigtime throws, his mobility is clearly an asset, and you can't help but be impressed by his personality.

But I'm really worried about his turnovers. 18 fumbles is insanely high. And although he only had 12 INTs, it really felt like he was a hair away from another half dozen. I think he got lucky when it came to the INTs, there were a lot of risky passes he got away with.

30 combined INTs + Fumbles in 12 starts, and the number could've easily been more than 30. That's scary.

He showed me a lot of good stuff as a rookie, but I'm pretty damn scared about the turnovers. I think he could be a stud if he cleans that up, but that requires A LOT of cleaning up.


Agreed, if he doesn't clean it up he will be another Winston. But I am pretty confident he will. The interceptions don't worry me. He had 12 in 12 games. Eli had a TD/Int ratio of 6:9 his rookie year. Peyton had 28 Ints his rookie year.

The fumbles/pocket awareness are my only worry about him, but I fully expect improvement in that area.

Last year, he had the deck stacked against him. Going from Duke/ACC schedule to the NFL is a pretty big jump. He had WRs that were getting no separation - probably the lowest in the league. He had a horrible OL.

I am pretty confident the issues will improve (how much is TDB). First, he understands it's a problem, and the coaches do as well. There have been a number of reports that he has been working on the fumbling issues as priority number 1. I believe he called it a "simple fix." The reports about his work ethic have been nothing but glowing.

Additionally, the Giants have taken major steps in making major investments in improving their OL. I only expect incremental adjustments to the OL this year, as Thomas gets acclimated to the NFL and guys like Peart and Lemieux develop. However, I expect to see a large improvement by next year. I expect improved OL coaching as well.

The WR separation is a concern, but they will have Tate for a full year, Slayton will be in his second year, and hopefully they have better health from Shephard (and Engram). I hope they may have gotten something with at least 1 of the UDFA WR, and I expect them to get a WR in the first few rounds next year to help with that issue.
RE: RE: RE: Give me Darnold and the Jags Josh Allen  
John In CO : 5/29/2020 3:13 pm : link
In comment 14913031 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
In comment 14912980 Toth029 said:


Quote:



If we're doing this, I'd go:

2018 Bradley Chubb & 2019 Drew Lock
or
2018 Josh Allen & 2019 Devin Bush


Are you saying you prefer Drew Lock over Daniel Jones? If so, that's a real head scratcher with the information we currently have at hand.


I sure as heck hope you are right, because there is a LOT of sentiment here in the Denver area that the Broncos may well have picked the best QB in the 2019 draft. He did win more games in 5 starts than Jones did in 12...so theres that. Didnt exactly beat a murderers row of teams, although you play who's in front of you, and he had a damn nice game vs the Texans. Broncos fans think they finally got "their guy" after years of searching post-Manning.
The rise of Simms  
BigBlueCane : 5/29/2020 3:21 pm : link
as a QB guru is amazing.
Hope Simms is right about Jones' fumbling issues  
DieHard : 5/29/2020 3:36 pm : link
He makes an interesting point about Jones's fearlessness. We've seen the downside, but I'd rather have a QB who has the confidence to keep looking for plays, and train him up on his internal clock and ball security, than have a QB who doesn't turn it over as much, but can't get out of the "play it safe" mindset in the big moments.
RE: I like Daniel Jones  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 5/29/2020 4:19 pm : link
In comment 14913094 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
there were so many good things I saw in him as a rookie. He proved he had the arm talent to make bigtime throws, his mobility is clearly an asset, and you can't help but be impressed by his personality.

But I'm really worried about his turnovers. 18 fumbles is insanely high. And although he only had 12 INTs, it really felt like he was a hair away from another half dozen. I think he got lucky when it came to the INTs, there were a lot of risky passes he got away with.

30 combined INTs + Fumbles in 12 starts, and the number could've easily been more than 30. That's scary.

He showed me a lot of good stuff as a rookie, but I'm pretty damn scared about the turnovers. I think he could be a stud if he cleans that up, but that requires A LOT of cleaning up.

I wish DJ8 had a good 50-50 receiver where those near INTs are catches.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Give me Darnold and the Jags Josh Allen  
Strahan91 : 5/29/2020 4:41 pm : link
In comment 14913232 John In CO said:
Quote:


I sure as heck hope you are right, because there is a LOT of sentiment here in the Denver area that the Broncos may well have picked the best QB in the 2019 draft. He did win more games in 5 starts than Jones did in 12...so theres that. Didnt exactly beat a murderers row of teams, although you play who's in front of you, and he had a damn nice game vs the Texans. Broncos fans think they finally got "their guy" after years of searching post-Manning.

I've seen that sentiment too and I find it pretty bizarre. I watched the Houston game start to finish. He played really well but Houston was flat and didn't come to play. Not to mention, 190 of his 300 yards came after the catch. For context, that's more than Jones in any of his game where he threw for 300+ yards.

Besides that he eclipsed 200 yards only once in his other starts (and just barely in a 23-3 loss to KC) and 151 of his 201 yards were after the catch in that one.

Also, Denver has a really solid defense so counting wins is misleading when it comes to evaluating Jones vs Lock. Opponent point totals in his 4 wins were 20, 24, 17 and 15. Only 3 out of Jones' 12 starts did the Giants hold their opponent to under 24 points, Washington twice and Chicago.

The Lions are the only somewhat apples to apples comparison we have in terms of mutual opponents and Jones threw for 322 yards and 4 TD's while Lock threw for 191 yards and 1 td against them. The Giants lost and Denver didn't but it helps when you get a punt return TD and over 100 yards from your RB plus get to face David Blough instead of Stafford.

He might become a good QB, who knows but as of today I don't see any evidence that points one way or the other.
I'm excited about Jones.  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/29/2020 5:09 pm : link
It was just one year, but for his rookie year, he showed more promise than Simms and Eli did in their rookie years. The potential and talent are there. Apparently, he's also a very hard worker and very intelligent. All the positives are there, now it's just about the coaching and cleaning up the fumbles. Given the attributes posted above, I think Jones can clean it up. If the coaching is as good as we're hoping, then the sky is the limit.
RE: I'd never heard this stat before  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/29/2020 5:22 pm : link
In comment 14912885 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
Jones is 1 of 6 rookies all time to throw for 3000 yards, 20 TD passes while completing 60% of his passes and have 200 rushing yards.

The other 5 are Russell Wilson, RG3, Dak Prescott, Minshew & Kyler Murray.

Not for anything, but based on that sample set, that's not necessarily a stat grouping that I'm thrilled about DJ joining.

But remember when you used to think that only the guaranteed money in a contract counted against the cap? Maybe this stat set is as misguided as your thinking on that was.
RE: RE: RE: Look... the jury is still out on DJ  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/29/2020 5:24 pm : link
In comment 14912924 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
In comment 14912907 ZogZerg said:


Quote:


In comment 14912896 EricJ said:


Quote:


and he is still learning. Hopefully by now we can all just agree to give DG and the Giants a pass on why they drafted him with the first pick last year. They obviously saw what everyone else is seeing now and just did not want to risk another team having him high on their list.. moving up to take him, etc



I think you have this worded wrong. Should be something like:
"...to give Dave G. and Pat S. a ton of credit for identifying the QB they liked and taking him where they needed to so no other team could grab him...."


That was my 1st thought...
…"a pass?!"

If the team shits the bed and they take Trevor Lawrence next year, is it still credit, or do we revert to giving them a pass?

Let's wait until DJ gets his turnovers under control before we start throwing around definitives, can't we?
Regardless of what adjectives people use,  
Big Blue '56 : 5/29/2020 5:46 pm : link
I think most people would say that DJ’s rookie year was a successful one, given that he had a problematic receiving corps given their injuries and had it not been for the surprising Slayton, it would have been an unmitigated disaster. Barkley, despite heroic efforts after missing 4 games with his HAS, was noticeably hampered/limited in the games he did play.

The D didn’t help matters when DJ did his job, but most importantly, his OL did him no favors throughout the year. We can speculate as to why his fumbles were as frequent as they were (OL? Carelessness? Wanting to make that play? All?), but I expect him to clean that up given how smart he is, determined he is and an appetite to correct what is clearly a flaw at this point.

I’m delighted in the overall with his rookie campaign and looking forward to seeing what a very competent coaching staff (on paper) can do to increase his productivity and decrease silly mistakes.
I have to give Simms credit  
GiantMike92 : 5/29/2020 6:49 pm : link
Although he killed to pick at the time he actually has admitted he was wrong about him. Unlike many others who panned the pick but refused to give Jones credit after they were proven wrong. And many here at BBI also killed Gettleman for picking him that early. Let’s hope his progress continues this year.
Again...DJ has got to get the ball security under control  
LBH15 : 5/29/2020 7:03 pm : link
And lets also see if/when he does, will that change any of the positives we saw in his game last year.

QB development is not linear, but I do think the guys that reach the upper tier(s) have some "stair-step" phases where their progression does move quickly.

His daddy also likes Jones  
Ira : 5/29/2020 7:53 pm : link
.
Link - ( New Window )
All he has to do is clean up the fumbles.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/29/2020 8:21 pm : link
I hope he can with better teaching. With this kid, it won't be for a lack of trying.
I didn't read through the entire thread  
NYG07 : 5/29/2020 8:30 pm : link
but I had this conversation just yesterday with my friends who are Jets fans. I was among the group that wanted Darnold in 2018 and my friends (who crushed the Giants for picking Jones) admitted that they would prefer him over Darnold. He was incredible in some games and bad in others, but that is expected of a rookie on a terrible team. I think the future is bright with this young man.
What I really like about Jones ....  
Manny in CA : 5/29/2020 8:48 pm : link

His accuracy, what he needs to work on - pocket awareness. (Both of these make Tom Brady great).

What the Front Office is working to help him with - a better O-line and a better O-line coach

What he can't do anything about - the quality of his receivers.

What Garrett will do for him - teach him (and the receivers); how to execute timing routes
RE: RE: Daniel Jones  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/29/2020 10:30 pm : link
In comment 14913006 TMS said:
Quote:
In comment 14912973 Big Rick in FL said:


Quote:


Is significantly better than Sam Darnold.

. Agree here. Think the beatings he took at Duke prepared him for a rough start in the NFL behind that poor Giants OL and no Barkley or decent defense. He seemed to improve every game after mid season. We will see.

Still waiting for those draft boards that had all the OT prospects as 2nd round talent. Are you planning to share those?
RE: RE: RE: Daniel Jones  
TMS : 5/29/2020 11:36 pm : link
In comment 14913389 Gatorade Dunk said:
[quote] In comment 14913006 TMS said:


Quote:


In comment 14912973 Big Rick in FL said:


Quote:


Is significantly better than Sam Darnold.

. Agree here. Think the beatings he took at Duke prepared him for a rough start in the NFL behind that poor Giants OL and no Barkley or decent defense. He seemed to improve every game after mid season. We will see.


Still waiting for those draft boards that had all the OT prospects as 2nd round talent. Are you planning to share those? [/quote. Most thought all the OL prospects were 2nd round talent and Thomas might be a late first rounder. They also saw Simmons as a top 4 pick with all pro potential. So do I. Hope I was wrong. HGD.
There's no place like BBI for doubling down on the stupid.  
BlueLou'sBack : 5/30/2020 12:40 am : link
Eh, TMS? Like GD said, waiting for the links to all the draft boards with the 2nd round grades on the 4 top OTs...

But even more to the point! Fuck the PUNDITS' BOARDS!

All 4 OTs were in fact drafted, not only in the first round, but among the first 13 picks!!!

And your "top 4 guy - Simmons" went 9th overall.

You're making your stand on a hill of bullshit.


Care to double down again?

Lastly, the Giants might well have drafted a player similar to Simmons (at least vis á vis positional versatility) in the second round, who's a better fit for their system as we imagine it, since he is truly a DB playing DB and not a DB playing LB.

Yeah I could be wrong and so could the Giants, but Thomas was ab-so-fooking-lutely the right choice at 4.
BlueLou  
ColHowPepper : 5/30/2020 9:12 am : link
LOL, and so true re. doubling down.
But TMS's running mate in the 'Simmons @4" hysteria, and I'm blanking on his handle, did come back a couple of weeks after the draft and praised the pick of Thomas @4. He was as adamant as TMS leading up to and through the draft, later re-assessed: I gave him kudos on the pro-Thomas thread he started.

But as far as the respective talent level of Simmons vs Thomas, aside, the decisive factor was, had to be, and still is, that the Giants had to begin enabling the players they had picked in the first round the previous two years. DG, JJ, et al. were in obvious agreement with this approach, given the picks in the 1st, 3rd, and 5th.
What a weird statement to make  
UConn4523 : 5/30/2020 9:17 am : link
top 4 talent drops to 9 and four 2nd round talent players all taken in the top half of the first round.

Sounds like rating prospects isn’t your thing.
Wanted Simmons,  
Big Blue '56 : 5/30/2020 9:25 am : link
fine with Thomas at 4
RE: RE: RE: RE: Look... the jury is still out on DJ  
Fritz : 5/30/2020 6:17 pm : link
In comment 14913309 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 14912924 Brown_Hornet said:


Quote:


In comment 14912907 ZogZerg said:


Quote:


In comment 14912896 EricJ said:


Quote:


and he is still learning. Hopefully by now we can all just agree to give DG and the Giants a pass on why they drafted him with the first pick last year. They obviously saw what everyone else is seeing now and just did not want to risk another team having him high on their list.. moving up to take him, etc



I think you have this worded wrong. Should be something like:
"...to give Dave G. and Pat S. a ton of credit for identifying the QB they liked and taking him where they needed to so no other team could grab him...."


That was my 1st thought...
…"a pass?!"


If the team shits the bed and they take Trevor Lawrence next year, is it still credit, or do we revert to giving them a pass?

Let's wait until DJ gets his turnovers under control before we start throwing around definitives, can't we?


Totally agree. I liked a lot of what I saw from DJ but he has a long way to go before we know for sure what he is or isn’t. The fumbling has to get under control for sure. I just want to see him improve to the point this year where they can win with him. I went to every home game and there were games when he seemed to be in over his head and they had no chance to win with him in there.
Considering the amount of  
TrueBlue56 : 5/30/2020 7:20 pm : link
Criticism Daniel Jones recieved after getting drafted and analysis by the so called experts plus gettleman getting completely eviscerated for drafting jones, Daniel Jones should be in the hall of fame.

Daniel Jones got booed at a Yankees game
The daily news and ny post had front pages of blue's clueless and blue who? "Its enough to make you cry as giants take duke quarterback in shocker"

I won't even go into the draft thread announcing Daniel jones as the pick.

Forget about what jones accomplished and performing way above the expectations of most on here plus the so called draft experts and media pundits, almost everything I see on here is his fumbles.

I think some of you would much rather be right so you have something to bitch and moan about, then to give the guy any credit for what he did do.
RE: Give me Darnold and the Jags Josh Allen  
GeofromNJ : 5/30/2020 8:52 pm : link
In comment 14912943 arniefez said:
Quote:
You can keep Jones and Barkley. I like Jones I thought he was very good for a rookie on a terrible team with a terrible coach. I don't think Darnold is better. I think they're equally qualified to be good starting NFL QBs with different styles and strengths.

But I'll take the pass rushing LB over the RB 100 times out of 100.

Rather than Darnold and Josh Allen, I would have taken Josh Allen and Josh Allen. That said, DJ has shown me enough for me to say that he is already a better quarterback than Eli Manning, and I have no doubt the Giants will win with him, even if the supporting cast is not as good as the recent SB years.
Josh Allen, the Bills QB? You would want HIM  
BlueLou'sBack : 5/31/2020 1:20 am : link
after his first two seasons?

Do you realize that Daniel Jones'passer rating was 20 points higher than Allen's as a rookie, and was a couple of points higher even this past year?

Have you not noticed Josh Allen's throwing accuracy issues?

His throws are as inconsistent as the flight paths of bottle rockets.

Geez Louise...

If Jones has anything like the same rookie to 2nd year jump in production Allen had, which is reasonably common for young QBs, he'll have a passer rating among the top 3-4 guys in the league next year.

Allen has interesting tools for sure, a real cannon, but he's as inaccurate and inconsistent as all get out.

The great ones, like Peyton, Brady, Montana all have accuracy and consistency as their top weapon or trait.

I wouldn't risk the floor of Josh Allen; it's pretty low.
I thought at the time of the draft last year  
csh2z : 6/1/2020 5:00 pm : link
that the reason DG picked Saquon over a QB was because he knew through the Manning's and Cutcliffe and their QB school that Jones had what it takes and would be worth waiting for.
RE: I thought at the time of the draft last year  
ron mexico : 6/1/2020 7:40 pm : link
In comment 14914299 csh2z said:
Quote:
that the reason DG picked Saquon over a QB was because he knew through the Manning's and Cutcliffe and their QB school that Jones had what it takes and would be worth waiting for.


Gettleman was asked this question.

He responded that his head of scouting told him that there will be good QBs in the future but he would be lying if he said he had his eyes on Jones.

In fact, he said he started looking into Jones seriously after Shurmur mad a huge push for him.
RE: RE: Give me Darnold and the Jags Josh Allen  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 6/2/2020 4:24 pm : link
In comment 14913658 GeofromNJ said:
Quote:
In comment 14912943 arniefez said:


Quote:


You can keep Jones and Barkley. I like Jones I thought he was very good for a rookie on a terrible team with a terrible coach. I don't think Darnold is better. I think they're equally qualified to be good starting NFL QBs with different styles and strengths.

But I'll take the pass rushing LB over the RB 100 times out of 100.


Rather than Darnold and Josh Allen, I would have taken Josh Allen and Josh Allen. That said, DJ has shown me enough for me to say that he is already a better quarterback than Eli Manning, and I have no doubt the Giants will win with him, even if the supporting cast is not as good as the recent SB years.


Excuse me?
RE: I like Chris, but funny how he doesn't mention  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 6/6/2020 8:39 am : link
In comment 14913065 rasbutant said:
Quote:
how down he was on DJ coming into the draft.

"a pick that, at the time, garnered heavy criticism for general manager Dave Gettleman who, it was said, reached by picking Jones earlier than he should have." .....It was said by you Chris! Own up to it.

He had DJ ranked as the 6th! best QB that year.

Tier 1
Murray
Lock
Haskins
Tier 2
Stidham
Finley
Jones
Tier 3
Thorson
Grier Link - ( New Window )


Actually, I have heard him discuss several times the fact that he missed badly on Jones.
RE: simms was not a good qb  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 6/6/2020 8:47 am : link
In comment 14913115 mpinmaine said:
Quote:
so what he says doesn't carry the weight with me but I think DJ will be around for awhile. wth do i know?


Your comment about Simms' ability as a QB affecting his analysis misses the point. Sean Payton, a QB who never played in the pros, has turned out to be a pretty good analyst of talent. Bill Parcells, former mediocre college LB, had a pretty good eye for LBs. The fact that Chris Simms had a mediocre pro career has no bearing on his ability to analyze QB play. The fact that he has been around professional QBs all of his life and studies film relentlessly suggests that he is worth listening to.
Jones projected to be way better fantasy wise.  
Carl in CT : 6/6/2020 10:47 pm : link
Any where from 11-18 I have found with Darnold 23-30th. I know this means nothing.
Did Chris Simms finalize his rankings?  
Carl in CT : 6/6/2020 10:48 pm : link
Anyone know.
RE: Give me Darnold and the Jags Josh Allen  
Matt G : 6/7/2020 12:11 pm : link
In comment 14912943 arniefez said:
Quote:
You can keep Jones and Barkley. I like Jones I thought he was very good for a rookie on a terrible team with a terrible coach. I don't think Darnold is better. I think they're equally qualified to be good starting NFL QBs with different styles and strengths.

But I'll take the pass rushing LB over the RB 100 times out of 100.


Save this for posterity... Darnold will never be more than a bottom half NFL QB... Taking Barkley over Darnold is a great example of why you take players over position... The Jets will be looking for a QB in 2 years
RE: RE: Give me Darnold and the Jags Josh Allen  
Milton : 6/7/2020 1:20 pm : link
In comment 14916344 Matt G said:
Quote:
In comment 14912943 arniefez said:


Quote:


You can keep Jones and Barkley. I like Jones I thought he was very good for a rookie on a terrible team with a terrible coach. I don't think Darnold is better. I think they're equally qualified to be good starting NFL QBs with different styles and strengths.

But I'll take the pass rushing LB over the RB 100 times out of 100.



Save this for posterity... Darnold will never be more than a bottom half NFL QB... Taking Barkley over Darnold is a great example of why you take players over position... The Jets will be looking for a QB in 2 years
Include me on Barkley and Jones over Darnold and Allen by a wide margin!
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