Jones is 1 of 6 rookies all time to throw for 3000 yards, 20 TD passes while completing 60% of his passes and have 200 rushing yards.
The other 5 are Russell Wilson, RG3, Dak Prescott, Minshew & Kyler Murray.
Not for anything, but based on that sample set, that's not necessarily a stat grouping that I'm thrilled about DJ joining.
But remember when you used to think that only the guaranteed money in a contract counted against the cap? Maybe this stat set is as misguided as your thinking on that was.
and he is still learning. Hopefully by now we can all just agree to give DG and the Giants a pass on why they drafted him with the first pick last year. They obviously saw what everyone else is seeing now and just did not want to risk another team having him high on their list.. moving up to take him, etc
I think you have this worded wrong. Should be something like:
"...to give Dave G. and Pat S. a ton of credit for identifying the QB they liked and taking him where they needed to so no other team could grab him...."
That was my 1st thought...
…"a pass?!"
If the team shits the bed and they take Trevor Lawrence next year, is it still credit, or do we revert to giving them a pass?
Let's wait until DJ gets his turnovers under control before we start throwing around definitives, can't we?
I think most people would say that DJ’s rookie year was a successful one, given that he had a problematic receiving corps given their injuries and had it not been for the surprising Slayton, it would have been an unmitigated disaster. Barkley, despite heroic efforts after missing 4 games with his HAS, was noticeably hampered/limited in the games he did play.
The D didn’t help matters when DJ did his job, but most importantly, his OL did him no favors throughout the year. We can speculate as to why his fumbles were as frequent as they were (OL? Carelessness? Wanting to make that play? All?), but I expect him to clean that up given how smart he is, determined he is and an appetite to correct what is clearly a flaw at this point.
I’m delighted in the overall with his rookie campaign and looking forward to seeing what a very competent coaching staff (on paper) can do to increase his productivity and decrease silly mistakes.
Although he killed to pick at the time he actually has admitted he was wrong about him. Unlike many others who panned the pick but refused to give Jones credit after they were proven wrong. And many here at BBI also killed Gettleman for picking him that early. Let’s hope his progress continues this year.
Again...DJ has got to get the ball security under control
And lets also see if/when he does, will that change any of the positives we saw in his game last year.
QB development is not linear, but I do think the guys that reach the upper tier(s) have some "stair-step" phases where their progression does move quickly.
but I had this conversation just yesterday with my friends who are Jets fans. I was among the group that wanted Darnold in 2018 and my friends (who crushed the Giants for picking Jones) admitted that they would prefer him over Darnold. He was incredible in some games and bad in others, but that is expected of a rookie on a terrible team. I think the future is bright with this young man.
. Agree here. Think the beatings he took at Duke prepared him for a rough start in the NFL behind that poor Giants OL and no Barkley or decent defense. He seemed to improve every game after mid season. We will see.
Still waiting for those draft boards that had all the OT prospects as 2nd round talent. Are you planning to share those?
In comment 14913389 Gatorade Dunk said:
[quote] In comment 14913006 TMS said:
Quote:
In comment 14912973 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
Is significantly better than Sam Darnold.
. Agree here. Think the beatings he took at Duke prepared him for a rough start in the NFL behind that poor Giants OL and no Barkley or decent defense. He seemed to improve every game after mid season. We will see.
Still waiting for those draft boards that had all the OT prospects as 2nd round talent. Are you planning to share those? [/quote. Most thought all the OL prospects were 2nd round talent and Thomas might be a late first rounder. They also saw Simmons as a top 4 pick with all pro potential. So do I. Hope I was wrong. HGD.
There's no place like BBI for doubling down on the stupid.
Eh, TMS? Like GD said, waiting for the links to all the draft boards with the 2nd round grades on the 4 top OTs...
But even more to the point! Fuck the PUNDITS' BOARDS!
All 4 OTs were in fact drafted, not only in the first round, but among the first 13 picks!!!
And your "top 4 guy - Simmons" went 9th overall.
You're making your stand on a hill of bullshit.
Care to double down again?
Lastly, the Giants might well have drafted a player similar to Simmons (at least vis á vis positional versatility) in the second round, who's a better fit for their system as we imagine it, since he is truly a DB playing DB and not a DB playing LB.
Yeah I could be wrong and so could the Giants, but Thomas was ab-so-fooking-lutely the right choice at 4.
LOL, and so true re. doubling down.
But TMS's running mate in the 'Simmons @4" hysteria, and I'm blanking on his handle, did come back a couple of weeks after the draft and praised the pick of Thomas @4. He was as adamant as TMS leading up to and through the draft, later re-assessed: I gave him kudos on the pro-Thomas thread he started.
But as far as the respective talent level of Simmons vs Thomas, aside, the decisive factor was, had to be, and still is, that the Giants had to begin enabling the players they had picked in the first round the previous two years. DG, JJ, et al. were in obvious agreement with this approach, given the picks in the 1st, 3rd, and 5th.
and he is still learning. Hopefully by now we can all just agree to give DG and the Giants a pass on why they drafted him with the first pick last year. They obviously saw what everyone else is seeing now and just did not want to risk another team having him high on their list.. moving up to take him, etc
I think you have this worded wrong. Should be something like:
"...to give Dave G. and Pat S. a ton of credit for identifying the QB they liked and taking him where they needed to so no other team could grab him...."
That was my 1st thought...
…"a pass?!"
If the team shits the bed and they take Trevor Lawrence next year, is it still credit, or do we revert to giving them a pass?
Let's wait until DJ gets his turnovers under control before we start throwing around definitives, can't we?
Totally agree. I liked a lot of what I saw from DJ but he has a long way to go before we know for sure what he is or isn’t. The fumbling has to get under control for sure. I just want to see him improve to the point this year where they can win with him. I went to every home game and there were games when he seemed to be in over his head and they had no chance to win with him in there.
Criticism Daniel Jones recieved after getting drafted and analysis by the so called experts plus gettleman getting completely eviscerated for drafting jones, Daniel Jones should be in the hall of fame.
Daniel Jones got booed at a Yankees game
The daily news and ny post had front pages of blue's clueless and blue who? "Its enough to make you cry as giants take duke quarterback in shocker"
I won't even go into the draft thread announcing Daniel jones as the pick.
Forget about what jones accomplished and performing way above the expectations of most on here plus the so called draft experts and media pundits, almost everything I see on here is his fumbles.
I think some of you would much rather be right so you have something to bitch and moan about, then to give the guy any credit for what he did do.
You can keep Jones and Barkley. I like Jones I thought he was very good for a rookie on a terrible team with a terrible coach. I don't think Darnold is better. I think they're equally qualified to be good starting NFL QBs with different styles and strengths.
But I'll take the pass rushing LB over the RB 100 times out of 100.
Rather than Darnold and Josh Allen, I would have taken Josh Allen and Josh Allen. That said, DJ has shown me enough for me to say that he is already a better quarterback than Eli Manning, and I have no doubt the Giants will win with him, even if the supporting cast is not as good as the recent SB years.
Do you realize that Daniel Jones'passer rating was 20 points higher than Allen's as a rookie, and was a couple of points higher even this past year?
Have you not noticed Josh Allen's throwing accuracy issues?
His throws are as inconsistent as the flight paths of bottle rockets.
Geez Louise...
If Jones has anything like the same rookie to 2nd year jump in production Allen had, which is reasonably common for young QBs, he'll have a passer rating among the top 3-4 guys in the league next year.
Allen has interesting tools for sure, a real cannon, but he's as inaccurate and inconsistent as all get out.
The great ones, like Peyton, Brady, Montana all have accuracy and consistency as their top weapon or trait.
I wouldn't risk the floor of Josh Allen; it's pretty low.
that the reason DG picked Saquon over a QB was because he knew through the Manning's and Cutcliffe and their QB school that Jones had what it takes and would be worth waiting for.
that the reason DG picked Saquon over a QB was because he knew through the Manning's and Cutcliffe and their QB school that Jones had what it takes and would be worth waiting for.
Gettleman was asked this question.
He responded that his head of scouting told him that there will be good QBs in the future but he would be lying if he said he had his eyes on Jones.
In fact, he said he started looking into Jones seriously after Shurmur mad a huge push for him.
You can keep Jones and Barkley. I like Jones I thought he was very good for a rookie on a terrible team with a terrible coach. I don't think Darnold is better. I think they're equally qualified to be good starting NFL QBs with different styles and strengths.
But I'll take the pass rushing LB over the RB 100 times out of 100.
Rather than Darnold and Josh Allen, I would have taken Josh Allen and Josh Allen. That said, DJ has shown me enough for me to say that he is already a better quarterback than Eli Manning, and I have no doubt the Giants will win with him, even if the supporting cast is not as good as the recent SB years.
Excuse me?
RE: I like Chris, but funny how he doesn't mention
"a pick that, at the time, garnered heavy criticism for general manager Dave Gettleman who, it was said, reached by picking Jones earlier than he should have." .....It was said by you Chris! Own up to it.
He had DJ ranked as the 6th! best QB that year.
Tier 1
Murray
Lock
Haskins
Tier 2
Stidham
Finley
Jones
Tier 3
Thorson
Grier Link - ( New Window )
Actually, I have heard him discuss several times the fact that he missed badly on Jones.
so what he says doesn't carry the weight with me but I think DJ will be around for awhile. wth do i know?
Your comment about Simms' ability as a QB affecting his analysis misses the point. Sean Payton, a QB who never played in the pros, has turned out to be a pretty good analyst of talent. Bill Parcells, former mediocre college LB, had a pretty good eye for LBs. The fact that Chris Simms had a mediocre pro career has no bearing on his ability to analyze QB play. The fact that he has been around professional QBs all of his life and studies film relentlessly suggests that he is worth listening to.
You can keep Jones and Barkley. I like Jones I thought he was very good for a rookie on a terrible team with a terrible coach. I don't think Darnold is better. I think they're equally qualified to be good starting NFL QBs with different styles and strengths.
But I'll take the pass rushing LB over the RB 100 times out of 100.
Save this for posterity... Darnold will never be more than a bottom half NFL QB... Taking Barkley over Darnold is a great example of why you take players over position... The Jets will be looking for a QB in 2 years
You can keep Jones and Barkley. I like Jones I thought he was very good for a rookie on a terrible team with a terrible coach. I don't think Darnold is better. I think they're equally qualified to be good starting NFL QBs with different styles and strengths.
But I'll take the pass rushing LB over the RB 100 times out of 100.
Save this for posterity... Darnold will never be more than a bottom half NFL QB... Taking Barkley over Darnold is a great example of why you take players over position... The Jets will be looking for a QB in 2 years
Include me on Barkley and Jones over Darnold and Allen by a wide margin!
The other 5 are Russell Wilson, RG3, Dak Prescott, Minshew & Kyler Murray.
Not for anything, but based on that sample set, that's not necessarily a stat grouping that I'm thrilled about DJ joining.
But remember when you used to think that only the guaranteed money in a contract counted against the cap? Maybe this stat set is as misguided as your thinking on that was.
Quote:
In comment 14912896 EricJ said:
Quote:
and he is still learning. Hopefully by now we can all just agree to give DG and the Giants a pass on why they drafted him with the first pick last year. They obviously saw what everyone else is seeing now and just did not want to risk another team having him high on their list.. moving up to take him, etc
I think you have this worded wrong. Should be something like:
"...to give Dave G. and Pat S. a ton of credit for identifying the QB they liked and taking him where they needed to so no other team could grab him...."
That was my 1st thought...
…"a pass?!"
If the team shits the bed and they take Trevor Lawrence next year, is it still credit, or do we revert to giving them a pass?
Let's wait until DJ gets his turnovers under control before we start throwing around definitives, can't we?
The D didn’t help matters when DJ did his job, but most importantly, his OL did him no favors throughout the year. We can speculate as to why his fumbles were as frequent as they were (OL? Carelessness? Wanting to make that play? All?), but I expect him to clean that up given how smart he is, determined he is and an appetite to correct what is clearly a flaw at this point.
I’m delighted in the overall with his rookie campaign and looking forward to seeing what a very competent coaching staff (on paper) can do to increase his productivity and decrease silly mistakes.
QB development is not linear, but I do think the guys that reach the upper tier(s) have some "stair-step" phases where their progression does move quickly.
Link - ( New Window )
His accuracy, what he needs to work on - pocket awareness. (Both of these make Tom Brady great).
What the Front Office is working to help him with - a better O-line and a better O-line coach
What he can't do anything about - the quality of his receivers.
What Garrett will do for him - teach him (and the receivers); how to execute timing routes
Quote:
Is significantly better than Sam Darnold.
. Agree here. Think the beatings he took at Duke prepared him for a rough start in the NFL behind that poor Giants OL and no Barkley or decent defense. He seemed to improve every game after mid season. We will see.
Still waiting for those draft boards that had all the OT prospects as 2nd round talent. Are you planning to share those?
[quote] In comment 14913006 TMS said:
Quote:
In comment 14912973 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
Is significantly better than Sam Darnold.
. Agree here. Think the beatings he took at Duke prepared him for a rough start in the NFL behind that poor Giants OL and no Barkley or decent defense. He seemed to improve every game after mid season. We will see.
Still waiting for those draft boards that had all the OT prospects as 2nd round talent. Are you planning to share those? [/quote. Most thought all the OL prospects were 2nd round talent and Thomas might be a late first rounder. They also saw Simmons as a top 4 pick with all pro potential. So do I. Hope I was wrong. HGD.
But even more to the point! Fuck the PUNDITS' BOARDS!
All 4 OTs were in fact drafted, not only in the first round, but among the first 13 picks!!!
And your "top 4 guy - Simmons" went 9th overall.
You're making your stand on a hill of bullshit.
Care to double down again?
Lastly, the Giants might well have drafted a player similar to Simmons (at least vis á vis positional versatility) in the second round, who's a better fit for their system as we imagine it, since he is truly a DB playing DB and not a DB playing LB.
Yeah I could be wrong and so could the Giants, but Thomas was ab-so-fooking-lutely the right choice at 4.
But TMS's running mate in the 'Simmons @4" hysteria, and I'm blanking on his handle, did come back a couple of weeks after the draft and praised the pick of Thomas @4. He was as adamant as TMS leading up to and through the draft, later re-assessed: I gave him kudos on the pro-Thomas thread he started.
But as far as the respective talent level of Simmons vs Thomas, aside, the decisive factor was, had to be, and still is, that the Giants had to begin enabling the players they had picked in the first round the previous two years. DG, JJ, et al. were in obvious agreement with this approach, given the picks in the 1st, 3rd, and 5th.
Sounds like rating prospects isn’t your thing.
Quote:
In comment 14912907 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
In comment 14912896 EricJ said:
Quote:
and he is still learning. Hopefully by now we can all just agree to give DG and the Giants a pass on why they drafted him with the first pick last year. They obviously saw what everyone else is seeing now and just did not want to risk another team having him high on their list.. moving up to take him, etc
I think you have this worded wrong. Should be something like:
"...to give Dave G. and Pat S. a ton of credit for identifying the QB they liked and taking him where they needed to so no other team could grab him...."
That was my 1st thought...
…"a pass?!"
If the team shits the bed and they take Trevor Lawrence next year, is it still credit, or do we revert to giving them a pass?
Let's wait until DJ gets his turnovers under control before we start throwing around definitives, can't we?
Totally agree. I liked a lot of what I saw from DJ but he has a long way to go before we know for sure what he is or isn’t. The fumbling has to get under control for sure. I just want to see him improve to the point this year where they can win with him. I went to every home game and there were games when he seemed to be in over his head and they had no chance to win with him in there.
Daniel Jones got booed at a Yankees game
The daily news and ny post had front pages of blue's clueless and blue who? "Its enough to make you cry as giants take duke quarterback in shocker"
I won't even go into the draft thread announcing Daniel jones as the pick.
Forget about what jones accomplished and performing way above the expectations of most on here plus the so called draft experts and media pundits, almost everything I see on here is his fumbles.
I think some of you would much rather be right so you have something to bitch and moan about, then to give the guy any credit for what he did do.
But I'll take the pass rushing LB over the RB 100 times out of 100.
Rather than Darnold and Josh Allen, I would have taken Josh Allen and Josh Allen. That said, DJ has shown me enough for me to say that he is already a better quarterback than Eli Manning, and I have no doubt the Giants will win with him, even if the supporting cast is not as good as the recent SB years.
Do you realize that Daniel Jones'passer rating was 20 points higher than Allen's as a rookie, and was a couple of points higher even this past year?
Have you not noticed Josh Allen's throwing accuracy issues?
His throws are as inconsistent as the flight paths of bottle rockets.
Geez Louise...
If Jones has anything like the same rookie to 2nd year jump in production Allen had, which is reasonably common for young QBs, he'll have a passer rating among the top 3-4 guys in the league next year.
Allen has interesting tools for sure, a real cannon, but he's as inaccurate and inconsistent as all get out.
The great ones, like Peyton, Brady, Montana all have accuracy and consistency as their top weapon or trait.
I wouldn't risk the floor of Josh Allen; it's pretty low.
Gettleman was asked this question.
He responded that his head of scouting told him that there will be good QBs in the future but he would be lying if he said he had his eyes on Jones.
In fact, he said he started looking into Jones seriously after Shurmur mad a huge push for him.
Quote:
You can keep Jones and Barkley. I like Jones I thought he was very good for a rookie on a terrible team with a terrible coach. I don't think Darnold is better. I think they're equally qualified to be good starting NFL QBs with different styles and strengths.
But I'll take the pass rushing LB over the RB 100 times out of 100.
Rather than Darnold and Josh Allen, I would have taken Josh Allen and Josh Allen. That said, DJ has shown me enough for me to say that he is already a better quarterback than Eli Manning, and I have no doubt the Giants will win with him, even if the supporting cast is not as good as the recent SB years.
Excuse me?
"a pick that, at the time, garnered heavy criticism for general manager Dave Gettleman who, it was said, reached by picking Jones earlier than he should have." .....It was said by you Chris! Own up to it.
He had DJ ranked as the 6th! best QB that year.
Tier 1
Murray
Lock
Haskins
Tier 2
Stidham
Finley
Jones
Tier 3
Thorson
Grier Link - ( New Window )
Actually, I have heard him discuss several times the fact that he missed badly on Jones.
Your comment about Simms' ability as a QB affecting his analysis misses the point. Sean Payton, a QB who never played in the pros, has turned out to be a pretty good analyst of talent. Bill Parcells, former mediocre college LB, had a pretty good eye for LBs. The fact that Chris Simms had a mediocre pro career has no bearing on his ability to analyze QB play. The fact that he has been around professional QBs all of his life and studies film relentlessly suggests that he is worth listening to.
But I'll take the pass rushing LB over the RB 100 times out of 100.
Save this for posterity... Darnold will never be more than a bottom half NFL QB... Taking Barkley over Darnold is a great example of why you take players over position... The Jets will be looking for a QB in 2 years
Quote:
You can keep Jones and Barkley. I like Jones I thought he was very good for a rookie on a terrible team with a terrible coach. I don't think Darnold is better. I think they're equally qualified to be good starting NFL QBs with different styles and strengths.
But I'll take the pass rushing LB over the RB 100 times out of 100.
Save this for posterity... Darnold will never be more than a bottom half NFL QB... Taking Barkley over Darnold is a great example of why you take players over position... The Jets will be looking for a QB in 2 years