Enjoyed the part where Eli was a passenger on the team. Did they miss the part where Rivers has some of the best talent in the league around him for his whole career and still choked?
Rivers did not have the personality to last in New York.
With one of the best running backs in Tomlinson, a top tight end in gates plus their steroid using all pro linebacker merriman. Those charger teams early in rivers career grossly underachieved. From 2004 to 2009 they were 3-5 in playoff games. They played in a division that was not competitive, which should have been a cakewalk for them to get the 1 or 2 seed, but they only accomplished it twice in 5 years.
The ridiculous thing was that the Chargers starting qb at that time
After his first bad game, he would probably have stabbed Steve Serby with a knife. His personality wasn't meant for NY. And Big Ben...well, he'd be in jail right now for sexual assault probably. Eli was the right person to end up in NY.
After his first bad game, he would probably have stabbed Steve Serby with a knife. His personality wasn't meant for NY. And Big Ben...well, he'd be in jail right now for sexual assault probably. Eli was the right person to end up in NY.
Agreed, his weird throwing motion would have been a problem in the windy Meadowlands as well.
If the Accorsi was not gambling to get Manning, the Giants would have picked Ben Roethlisberger. Ernie went all-out for Eli and as it has been show, this was a great deal for the Giants (if you're judging success by super bowls instead of stats).
Enjoyed the part where Eli was a passenger on the team. Did they miss the part where Rivers has some of the best talent in the league around him for his whole career and still choked?
Rivers did not have the personality to last in New York.
Rivers had Hall of Famers on offense with him. Eli did not. Bottom line.
Eli won 2 Superbowls. Rivers never won one for San Diego. And for the record, let's go over that 2011 team again. Eli was supposedly a passenger on a team that was:
26th in overall defense
32nd in rushing
32nd in yards per carry
32nd in giving up QB hurries
The 2011 team couldn't stop anybody, was the league's worst at running the ball, and couldn't protect the QB. If anything the 2011 Giants were passengers on Eli.
to- Osi and our 2nd rounder that year which I believe was the #2 pick of the 2nd rd. which was Chris Snee who only made Pro Bowls and helped us win 2 SB's. Sure we gave up #10 the next season but overall it was not a crazy price at all. I love how he quickly glossed over how Keading made every kick except the clutch ones in the playoffs lol.
Where draft picks and even the value of 1-2 good players can be overrated or overstated. This Eli trade is one of those instances. The chargers are still winning a bunch of games after 2004, with or without that Eli trade. They did a good job getting 3 additional picks. But it wasn’t highway robbery. History screams that it wasn’t highway robbery. They pretty much got exactly what they should have gotten in that trade. The chargers are a micky mouse operation and always have been. The charger franchise and media network out there acted like amateurs and still do to this day. Just fucking shut it already with the butt hurt act.
On the scale of misunderstood historical events, calling getting Rivers and getting two or three draft picks, none of whom turned out very good (aside from Rivers himself) for Eli, might be like a 1 compared to 50% of American high schoolers who don't know about the Holocaust of European Jews.
But it is more amusing than being ignorant about the Holocaust...🤔
If the Accorsi was not gambling to get Manning, the Giants would have picked Ben Roethlisberger. Ernie went all-out for Eli and as it has been show, this was a great deal for the Giants (if you're judging success by super bowls instead of stats).
that's right. Ernie said many times and wrote in his book: if the deal with SD couldn't get done, he would have taken Rothlisberger.
He choked and couldn't beat the Pats with better teams than Eli had. I guess the SD fans have to try to make themselves feel good about something since they no longer have a team...
Eli is in today's Sunday Times Crossword Puzzle. Rivers is not.
are an easy skip IMHO. The Giants may have overpaid at the time or not. What can't be argued is that the Giants won 2 Super Bowls with Eli and Eli was the MVP of the two Superbowls regardless of what happened in SD and what they did with the draft picks acquired from NY. This was also before the restrictions on rookie contracts so NY was able to use the money that would have been allocated to the 2005 first round pick on F/As. The 05 F/As played a huge part in the 2007 Super Bowl. I doubt the Giants would change anything about the trade in hindsight. There are plenty of trades with clear winners and losers where a team would want a redo yet even in those cases the winner doesn't win where it matters. The Redskins destroyed NO in the Rickey Williams trade and still the Saints have won a Super Bowl and been a perennial winner since the trade and Washington is well Washington.
Comp % - 60.5
TD % - 4.5
18 TD / 9 INT (2:1 ratio!!!!)
8 - 4 Record
Stone Cold Eli maintains or even improves his regular season Comp and TD percentages against the best teams, and jumps to a whole different level for TD / INT when one or the other can decide the whole season.
TL;DR:
Philip Rivers: JAG in the Playoffs
Eli Manning: Stud in the Playoffs
"Stats are for losers. Eli Manning is a two time Superbowl MVP. He carried the Giant in the 2011 playoff/championship run. Eli is clutch while Rivers chokes like a dog when the going gets though. Every Giant fan will take two Lombardis over useless stats. Enjoy Loserville🤣🤣🤣. The Giants and other reputable organizations count success in Lombardis.😁😁"
Enjoyed the part where Eli was a passenger on the team. Did they miss the part where Rivers has some of the best talent in the league around him for his whole career and still choked?
Rivers did not have the personality to last in New York.
Rivers had Hall of Famers on offense with him. Eli did not. Bottom line.
Eli won 2 Superbowls. Rivers never won one for San Diego. And for the record, let's go over that 2011 team again. Eli was supposedly a passenger on a team that was:
26th in overall defense
32nd in rushing
32nd in yards per carry
32nd in giving up QB hurries
The 2011 team couldn't stop anybody, was the league's worst at running the ball, and couldn't protect the QB. If anything the 2011 Giants were passengers on Eli.
You’re so right on the 2011 team. I always use that season when I’m arguing with the Eli bashers. He carried that team in his back to the playoffs. They got healthy on the defensive line and he had his top two backs in the lineup and that helped them once they got to the postseason but before that he carried them.
RE: The trade was favoring SD the 1st year....maybe the 2nd
quarterbacking the Giants in San Francisco for the NFC championship in 2011...
without laughing, or simply shaking your head.
In fact I can't imagine any QB not named Eli Manning playing that game start to finish and walking out of there with a W.
And I'm hardly Eli's biggest fan boy booster, but in that game Eli wore his Superman suit cape and his big boy britches. That was a truly epic performance, ranking with LT's Monday night one armed massacre of the Saints as the greatest games ever played by an individual Giant.
IF Merriman had panned out rather than flaming out...
you could have argued the Chargers position. That didn 't happen. As a result the Giants won the trade by a fair margin based on Eli's superior playoff performance compared to Rivers both in the trophy case and on the stat line.
you could have argued the Chargers position. That didn 't happen. As a result the Giants won the trade by a fair margin based on Eli's superior playoff performance compared to Rivers both in the trophy case and on the stat line.
I hear where you're coming from, but I still wouldn't say the Giants were robbed. The Giants gave up fair market value to move up 3 spots to #1. The trade aligns with past trades and if anything, seems a little light compared to future trades. We have seen teams give up more lately.
SD had a chance to turn the trade into a boon for the franchise if they hit on every pick. They did OK, but Merriman's short life span hurt them.
it's funny how so many teams have traded so much for the elite QB or player, and EVERY single time the team HIT on that great player, be it Eli, or Julio Jones, or Elway, no one ever remembers what that team gave up? Oh, except with the Eli trade because it's the NY Giants and stupid SD Chargers and people have too much time on their hands. That trade is laughable now from my POV and any Giants fan with a clue.
draft capital is only great if you have things in place to make it work. If the front office and coaching staff have a clear cut plan and are all on the same page? You can turn anything into gold let alone excess draft capital. If you are a team with little front office/coaching cohesion? Good luck with that. Remember when the Skins were rescued by the dumbest trade in NFL history--the Ditka Ricky Williams trade? How did that turn out for both franchises? The Skins went nowhere. The Saints dusted themselves off and embarked on a glory years run that began in 2006. The trade was made in 99, so they did hit a rough patch, but it didn't last that long. The Skins are still mired in mediocrity and really did nothing after that trade, either months or years later.
The Falcons gave up too much for Julio Jones. Except they were fine too. They had a plan. The Giants were robbed in the ELi trade? Then they turned around and drafted 3 pro bowl caliber players in 2005 despite only having 4 picks total. They were well run and well coached. They were able to overcome the trade, and in many ways may have have even been better off because who knows if they still draft Webster in round 2 if they have a 1st rounder that year. Who knows if they draft Tuck in round 3. Or Jacobs in round 4. Everything worked out.
Not sure that Every Single Time a big draft day trade was a success.
You already mentioned one of the biggest busts in the Ricky Williams deal. The Saints didn't real dust themselves off until they landed Drew Brees years later.
A bunch of other draft day trades gone south include RGIII, Ryan Leaf, KiJana Carter, and Trent Richardson.
When you look at the level of play over the number of the years that Eli, Ben, & Rivers had, you can say that 2004 was a great QB draft year. Funny we were all saying back then that we wouldn't know for many years if it was a good or bad trade. Here we are 16 years later and still aren't sure, because they all played so well. IMHO, I think the Giants would have still won 2 SBs had they kept Rivers or selected Ben. That is not a knock on Eli, it is recognition that all three are great QBs. We will never know, but we have two SBs thanks to Eli, so you can't really complain how things worked out.
quarterbacking the Giants in San Francisco for the NFC championship in 2011...
without laughing, or simply shaking your head.
In fact I can't imagine any QB not named Eli Manning playing that game start to finish and walking out of there with a W.
And I'm hardly Eli's biggest fan boy booster, but in that game Eli wore his Superman suit cape and his big boy britches. That was a truly epic performance, ranking with LT's Monday night one armed massacre of the Saints as the greatest games ever played by an individual Giant.
Lou, would have been Ben, not Rivers. The Giants would have drafted Roethlisberger not Rivers if the trade wasn't worked out.
Not sure how that would have worked out, but certainly Ben is a better QB than Rivers and tough as nails. Not as durable as Eli.
When you look at the level of play over the number of the years that Eli, Ben, & Rivers had, you can say that 2004 was a great QB draft year. Funny we were all saying back then that we wouldn't know for many years if it was a good or bad trade. Here we are 16 years later and still aren't sure, because they all played so well. IMHO, I think the Giants would have still won 2 SBs had they kept Rivers or selected Ben. That is not a knock on Eli, it is recognition that all three are great QBs. We will never know, but we have two SBs thanks to Eli, so you can't really complain how things worked out.
I don't agree with this at all. While all three are, indeed, great QBs, not all are equal in their abilities. Yes, Rivers and Big Ben have had better regular seasons and are considered better passers by many, but neither carried their teams through the playoffs like Eli did. And while you can argue that Eli benefited from the defenses in his two Super Bowl seasons finally showing up during the playoffs, Eli rarely had dominant teams in which he was just a part of the team. He often had to carry the teams in the playoffs after suffering through mediocre seasons after mediocre seasons by much of the team. Eli brought something special in the biggest stages.
All three may end up in the HOF (at least Eli and Big Ben for sure) and will go down as members of one of the best QB draft classes in NFL history (sorry, JP Loseman...you sucked). However, let's not start thinking that Rivers or Big Ben would have survived the way Eli did on the mediocre Giants teams as well as in the media market that is NYC.
When you look at the level of play over the number of the years that Eli, Ben, & Rivers had, you can say that 2004 was a great QB draft year. Funny we were all saying back then that we wouldn't know for many years if it was a good or bad trade. Here we are 16 years later and still aren't sure, because they all played so well. IMHO, I think the Giants would have still won 2 SBs had they kept Rivers or selected Ben. That is not a knock on Eli, it is recognition that all three are great QBs. We will never know, but we have two SBs thanks to Eli, so you can't really complain how things worked out.
I don't agree with this at all. While all three are, indeed, great QBs, not all are equal in their abilities. Yes, Rivers and Big Ben have had better regular seasons and are considered better passers by many, but neither carried their teams through the playoffs like Eli did. And while you can argue that Eli benefited from the defenses in his two Super Bowl seasons finally showing up during the playoffs, Eli rarely had dominant teams in which he was just a part of the team. He often had to carry the teams in the playoffs after suffering through mediocre seasons after mediocre seasons by much of the team. Eli brought something special in the biggest stages.
All three may end up in the HOF (at least Eli and Big Ben for sure) and will go down as members of one of the best QB draft classes in NFL history (sorry, JP Loseman...you sucked). However, let's not start thinking that Rivers or Big Ben would have survived the way Eli did on the mediocre Giants teams as well as in the media market that is NYC.
Did you even read my post? Do you even know what you are disagreeing to? And why would two great QBs like Ben and Rivers not be able to survive in NY on mediocre teams (you know the types of teams that win 2 SBs)? Please indulge us.
RE: Not sure that Every Single Time a big draft day trade was a success.
You already mentioned one of the biggest busts in the Ricky Williams deal. The Saints didn't real dust themselves off until they landed Drew Brees years later.
A bunch of other draft day trades gone south include RGIII, Ryan Leaf, KiJana Carter, and Trent Richardson.
True, but it's because the player that was traded for never lived up to expectations. The cost is never too high unless the player traded for isn't any good.
Eli ended up completely validating the Giants franchise from the moment he donned an NYG jersey, probably even more so than Coughlin's arrival. Eli was the catalyst. ONce the Giants traded for Eli they gained a shit load of credibility. They started to get more prime games. They started to win more prime time games. They won 2 super bowls. The cost didn't amount to anything more than ten bucks to you or I. The Giants would have given up double if they had to do it over again.
Those other trades, RG3, Trent Richardson and more, those guys didn't play well enough to warrant the cost of trading for them. If RG3 was the goods the cost, would have been worth it, even thogh the Skins did in fact pay more for bob than what the Giants paid for Eli.
Shit, if Herchel Walker had a 4 year run of excellence in him in Minny, even that cost might have been worth it to Minny....ok maybe not.
Enjoyed the part where Eli was a passenger on the team. Did they miss the part where Rivers has some of the best talent in the league around him for his whole career and still choked?
Rivers did not have the personality to last in New York.
I highly doubt Eli would have won a Bowl with the Chargers.
Enjoyed the part where Eli was a passenger on the team. Did they miss the part where Rivers has some of the best talent in the league around him for his whole career and still choked?
Rivers did not have the personality to last in New York.
I highly doubt Eli would have won a Bowl with the Chargers.
Just a snake bit franchise.
I don't know about that. Eli did more with less here. Early on the chargers were stacked. Tomlinson and gates plus a very good offensive line with Hardwick, Goff, dielman, oben and McNeill. Plus better weather conditions than here.
Eli just always had a knack of coming through in big spots. I think he could have won a superbowl with one of those teams.
On the flip side, I don't think rivers would have been able to win a superbowl here
'Other than 2 Super Bowls...'
Hahaha.
Rivers did not have the personality to last in New York.
But thanks for sharing Jason! Keep trying!
I will be pissed at Reese/Ross for ruining any shot for a 3rd
Agreed, his weird throwing motion would have been a problem in the windy Meadowlands as well.
Rivers did not have the personality to last in New York.
Rivers had Hall of Famers on offense with him. Eli did not. Bottom line.
Eli won 2 Superbowls. Rivers never won one for San Diego. And for the record, let's go over that 2011 team again. Eli was supposedly a passenger on a team that was:
26th in overall defense
32nd in rushing
32nd in yards per carry
32nd in giving up QB hurries
The 2011 team couldn't stop anybody, was the league's worst at running the ball, and couldn't protect the QB. If anything the 2011 Giants were passengers on Eli.
This as well. The Chargers failed to recognize the Hall of Famer they already had on the roster. In hindsight they should've drafted Fitzgerald.
Good for us and not necessary to shit on them.
But it is more amusing than being ignorant about the Holocaust...🤔
that's right. Ernie said many times and wrote in his book: if the deal with SD couldn't get done, he would have taken Rothlisberger.
“...One of the best pass rushers in the history of the league.” Mmmkkkaaayy.
Philip Rivers Reg Season in sunny San Diego
Comp % - 64.7
TD % - 5.2
397 TD / 198 INT (2:1 ratio)
11 Playoff Games against tough Defenses:
Comp % - 59.4 (sub 60!)
TD % - 3.9
14 TD / 10 INT (NOT 2:1 ratio)
5 - 6 Record
Diminishing numbers across the board for Rivers, and abysmal TD / INT numbers with the season on the line.
----------------------------------------------------------
Hey, how about Eli Manning you say?!?
Reg Season in the cold Northeast
Comp % - 60.3
TD % - 4.5
366 TD / 244 INT
12 Playoff Games against tough Defenses:
Comp % - 60.5
TD % - 4.5
18 TD / 9 INT (2:1 ratio!!!!)
8 - 4 Record
Stone Cold Eli maintains or even improves his regular season Comp and TD percentages against the best teams, and jumps to a whole different level for TD / INT when one or the other can decide the whole season.
TL;DR:
Philip Rivers: JAG in the Playoffs
Eli Manning: Stud in the Playoffs
Chargers had there own LT and Gates and a good team and have nothing to show for it...and yes they had Brees as a starter too.
If Chargers fans were honest they'd all pick Eli.
Quote:
Enjoyed the part where Eli was a passenger on the team. Did they miss the part where Rivers has some of the best talent in the league around him for his whole career and still choked?
Rivers did not have the personality to last in New York.
Rivers had Hall of Famers on offense with him. Eli did not. Bottom line.
Eli won 2 Superbowls. Rivers never won one for San Diego. And for the record, let's go over that 2011 team again. Eli was supposedly a passenger on a team that was:
26th in overall defense
32nd in rushing
32nd in yards per carry
32nd in giving up QB hurries
The 2011 team couldn't stop anybody, was the league's worst at running the ball, and couldn't protect the QB. If anything the 2011 Giants were passengers on Eli.
You’re so right on the 2011 team. I always use that season when I’m arguing with the Eli bashers. He carried that team in his back to the playoffs. They got healthy on the defensive line and he had his top two backs in the lineup and that helped them once they got to the postseason but before that he carried them.
I will be pissed at Reese/Ross for ruining any shot for a 3rd
Shouldn't the self-shooter be held partly responsible for not having Eli's third SB?
without laughing, or simply shaking your head.
In fact I can't imagine any QB not named Eli Manning playing that game start to finish and walking out of there with a W.
And I'm hardly Eli's biggest fan boy booster, but in that game Eli wore his Superman suit cape and his big boy britches. That was a truly epic performance, ranking with LT's Monday night one armed massacre of the Saints as the greatest games ever played by an individual Giant.
I hear where you're coming from, but I still wouldn't say the Giants were robbed. The Giants gave up fair market value to move up 3 spots to #1. The trade aligns with past trades and if anything, seems a little light compared to future trades. We have seen teams give up more lately.
SD had a chance to turn the trade into a boon for the franchise if they hit on every pick. They did OK, but Merriman's short life span hurt them.
it's funny how so many teams have traded so much for the elite QB or player, and EVERY single time the team HIT on that great player, be it Eli, or Julio Jones, or Elway, no one ever remembers what that team gave up? Oh, except with the Eli trade because it's the NY Giants and stupid SD Chargers and people have too much time on their hands. That trade is laughable now from my POV and any Giants fan with a clue.
The Falcons gave up too much for Julio Jones. Except they were fine too. They had a plan. The Giants were robbed in the ELi trade? Then they turned around and drafted 3 pro bowl caliber players in 2005 despite only having 4 picks total. They were well run and well coached. They were able to overcome the trade, and in many ways may have have even been better off because who knows if they still draft Webster in round 2 if they have a 1st rounder that year. Who knows if they draft Tuck in round 3. Or Jacobs in round 4. Everything worked out.
A bunch of other draft day trades gone south include RGIII, Ryan Leaf, KiJana Carter, and Trent Richardson.
IIRC, the Vikings traded a butt load of picks for Walker and then only gave him about 10-12 carries a game. A big WTF.
without laughing, or simply shaking your head.
In fact I can't imagine any QB not named Eli Manning playing that game start to finish and walking out of there with a W.
And I'm hardly Eli's biggest fan boy booster, but in that game Eli wore his Superman suit cape and his big boy britches. That was a truly epic performance, ranking with LT's Monday night one armed massacre of the Saints as the greatest games ever played by an individual Giant.
Lou, would have been Ben, not Rivers. The Giants would have drafted Roethlisberger not Rivers if the trade wasn't worked out.
Not sure how that would have worked out, but certainly Ben is a better QB than Rivers and tough as nails. Not as durable as Eli.
I don't agree with this at all. While all three are, indeed, great QBs, not all are equal in their abilities. Yes, Rivers and Big Ben have had better regular seasons and are considered better passers by many, but neither carried their teams through the playoffs like Eli did. And while you can argue that Eli benefited from the defenses in his two Super Bowl seasons finally showing up during the playoffs, Eli rarely had dominant teams in which he was just a part of the team. He often had to carry the teams in the playoffs after suffering through mediocre seasons after mediocre seasons by much of the team. Eli brought something special in the biggest stages.
All three may end up in the HOF (at least Eli and Big Ben for sure) and will go down as members of one of the best QB draft classes in NFL history (sorry, JP Loseman...you sucked). However, let's not start thinking that Rivers or Big Ben would have survived the way Eli did on the mediocre Giants teams as well as in the media market that is NYC.
Quote:
When you look at the level of play over the number of the years that Eli, Ben, & Rivers had, you can say that 2004 was a great QB draft year. Funny we were all saying back then that we wouldn't know for many years if it was a good or bad trade. Here we are 16 years later and still aren't sure, because they all played so well. IMHO, I think the Giants would have still won 2 SBs had they kept Rivers or selected Ben. That is not a knock on Eli, it is recognition that all three are great QBs. We will never know, but we have two SBs thanks to Eli, so you can't really complain how things worked out.
I don't agree with this at all. While all three are, indeed, great QBs, not all are equal in their abilities. Yes, Rivers and Big Ben have had better regular seasons and are considered better passers by many, but neither carried their teams through the playoffs like Eli did. And while you can argue that Eli benefited from the defenses in his two Super Bowl seasons finally showing up during the playoffs, Eli rarely had dominant teams in which he was just a part of the team. He often had to carry the teams in the playoffs after suffering through mediocre seasons after mediocre seasons by much of the team. Eli brought something special in the biggest stages.
All three may end up in the HOF (at least Eli and Big Ben for sure) and will go down as members of one of the best QB draft classes in NFL history (sorry, JP Loseman...you sucked). However, let's not start thinking that Rivers or Big Ben would have survived the way Eli did on the mediocre Giants teams as well as in the media market that is NYC.
A bunch of other draft day trades gone south include RGIII, Ryan Leaf, KiJana Carter, and Trent Richardson.
True, but it's because the player that was traded for never lived up to expectations. The cost is never too high unless the player traded for isn't any good.
Eli ended up completely validating the Giants franchise from the moment he donned an NYG jersey, probably even more so than Coughlin's arrival. Eli was the catalyst. ONce the Giants traded for Eli they gained a shit load of credibility. They started to get more prime games. They started to win more prime time games. They won 2 super bowls. The cost didn't amount to anything more than ten bucks to you or I. The Giants would have given up double if they had to do it over again.
Those other trades, RG3, Trent Richardson and more, those guys didn't play well enough to warrant the cost of trading for them. If RG3 was the goods the cost, would have been worth it, even thogh the Skins did in fact pay more for bob than what the Giants paid for Eli.
Shit, if Herchel Walker had a 4 year run of excellence in him in Minny, even that cost might have been worth it to Minny....ok maybe not.
Rivers did not have the personality to last in New York.
I highly doubt Eli would have won a Bowl with the Chargers.
Just a snake bit franchise.
Quote:
Enjoyed the part where Eli was a passenger on the team. Did they miss the part where Rivers has some of the best talent in the league around him for his whole career and still choked?
Rivers did not have the personality to last in New York.
I highly doubt Eli would have won a Bowl with the Chargers.
Just a snake bit franchise.
I don't know about that. Eli did more with less here. Early on the chargers were stacked. Tomlinson and gates plus a very good offensive line with Hardwick, Goff, dielman, oben and McNeill. Plus better weather conditions than here.
Eli just always had a knack of coming through in big spots. I think he could have won a superbowl with one of those teams.
On the flip side, I don't think rivers would have been able to win a superbowl here