Giants Defense will have a ton of new faces

Can only go up from rock bottom.

& Martinez will be the guys that make the biggest difference. What Bradberry will bring is so key.

I think Beal has a golden opportunity in front of him. I expect him to be starting opposite Bradberry and I expect him to play very well. In limited action last year, I thought he was very good.

I would like to see what they do with Julian Love. He could start at nickel conceivably. Had the fastest 3-cone at the combine a year ago so he has the C.O.D. skills and quickness.

I know everyone is on Holmes and he was drafted to be the nickel, I just think Love would have the advantage over him year 1 if that's where the coaching staff wants to put him. Ballentine would have to make a big leap from year 1 to year 2 but he has the athleticism to do it.

Nobody talks about Fackrell much but that's a good solid player.

The guy I'm most excited about is Lorenzo Carter. Washington was terrible, their line a mess, but that week 15 game (I think) against Washington last year, Carter was dominant, all over the place making plays. Would love to see him make the jump in year 3 to be a high-level pass rusher. Really excited about the linebackers with Connelly coming back, hopefully he can stay healthy.

And of course McKinney. I just hope he does his job, really learns the defense. We don't need him to be Ed Reed, just be solid and it will work out. This defense still might be a player away but I think they have enough pieces to be really good. It will come down to health.

of this defense should be fun when they get back on the field. hopefully they'll successfully have a ton of new looks too.

safety, MLB and DT. All manned by veterans that are capable and of course the second rounder this season.

Really, the key to this defense might very well be McKinnney. It's asking a lot but if he's the second coming of someone like Polomalu we might have a fun D early on. But that's obviously asking for the sun, moon and stars. If he can at least man the position adequately the D should be much better than last year. It needs to be for this team to compete. I still think the O is fine more or less. It has scored points the last 2 years, just needs to be better at running the ball. With Barkley and Thomas now in the fold along with the better coaching, I don't think that's asking too much at all.

I am skeptical Connely will be back and in the starting line up to start the season. Coming off ACL surgery, incredibly unorthodox offseason, new system, and just a few NFL games under his belt.

I'd say the two unkowns right now are inside linebacker and corner.

In comment 14914578 allstarjim said:

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& Martinez will be the guys that make the biggest difference. What Bradberry will bring is so key. I think Beal has a golden opportunity in front of him. I expect him to be starting opposite Bradberry and I expect him to play very well. In limited action last year, I thought he was very good. I would like to see what they do with Julian Love. He could start at nickel conceivably. Had the fastest 3-cone at the combine a year ago so he has the C.O.D. skills and quickness. I know everyone is on Holmes and he was drafted to be the nickel, I just think Love would have the advantage over him year 1 if that's where the coaching staff wants to put him. Ballentine would have to make a big leap from year 1 to year 2 but he has the athleticism to do it. Nobody talks about Fackrell much but that's a good solid player. The guy I'm most excited about is Lorenzo Carter. Washington was terrible, their line a mess, but that week 15 game (I think) against Washington last year, Carter was dominant, all over the place making plays. Would love to see him make the jump in year 3 to be a high-level pass rusher. Really excited about the linebackers with Connelly coming back, hopefully he can stay healthy. And of course McKinney. I just hope he does his job, really learns the defense. We don't need him to be Ed Reed, just be solid and it will work out. This defense still might be a player away but I think they have enough pieces to be really good. It will come down to health.

Good thorough well conceived post but I beg to differ about Love at nickle /slot corner (over Holmes). Love, I thought, played far better at S than he did at CB last year. Even with McKinney and Peppers as the defacto starting safeties, Love's value as a good 3rd safety for 3 safety sets, and the under-rated value he brings as the #1 depth replacement to either McKinney or Peppers, gives Holmes a clear window for the job as slot corner.

I also think Holmes is flat out faster, particularly straight line, and a more physical and better tackler than Love up around the LOS.

We'll see, because that's assuming the Giants don't need Holmes as a boundary CB, which is far from certain.

i don't care what the prognosticators say--and they are all saying this team fucking sucks. Fine, have at it, there's no reason why anyone should pick this team to be any good this year as they have sucked for 3 years running and only added decent vet talent at 2-3 positions this off-season. But with all that said, this defense is primarily filled with about 8-9 1st, 2nd and 3rd year players--mostly 2nd and 3rd year players. No one can predict where this D will end up this season, I don't care how smart or objective or in the know you might be, you just don't know. This D could be out of the NFL in 2-3 years or it could be a top 5 unit in 2 years. Who can tell? it's a bunch of younger players. And since it's not all rookies, I can't say with certainty that the D will experience deal breaking growing pains in 2020. Most of the D is composed of players who have 2 years + of experience. Why can't the likes of Dexter lawrence, Thomlinson, Williams, Carter, Ximines, Bradbury, Peppers, Martinez and a rookie here and there take this D to respectable heights this season? Why? We don't know WTF they are so how can anyone say they will suck?

It's all about the coaching. This D is so unproven but it's not all rookies and undrafted slobs. There's a lot of talent here. It's just unknown.

I don’t think you can count on Connelly for much the 1st year after an ACL and Mayo is not the answer ... so there’s a definite opportunity for someone to step up and ‘fill the gap’. In addition to the mid and late round picks, I’m intrigued by several of the UDFAs and I hope they get enough of a chance to show what they can or can’t do ... DE Niko Lalos, OLB Oluwole Betiku, and CB Christian Angulo are the 3 guys that stand out.

More than likely, they still need to find their future Edge players, as I'm not holding out much hope for Carter or X. They look like sub parts to me, few instincts, not plus players in any dept, there's no difference makers at the Edge as presently constructed.

There's considerable talent on paper in the secondary, but need young prospects to develop, namely Peppers, Baker, McKinney and for a solid nickel to emerge.

Up front, there's talent but not the type of talent equating to potential pay days the open market could present to them. Which is why I think Tomlinson will be gone, and LW really has to play to potential to get an extension at the level he wants. If that plays out as I expect, and players like Hill and McIntosh don't develop, suddenly the DL is really lean again.

In comment 14914575 rocco8112 said:

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Can only go up from rock bottom.

My thinking 100%.

He’s got that kind of talent. Playing at DE at maybe 325 he could be a force. He talked about the fact that he played well below the 340+ he was at the combine. He had an ankle that kept him from being in top shape. Who knows but he’s a possibility.

decent. It all depends on how they come together and function as a unit. Lots of young inexperienced players with good athleticism. IMO, the defense is an elite Edge player away from being pretty good. I think the defense will grow this year. Not looking for miracles, just competitive, get the other team off the field on third downs.

when I say good players I mean players who contribute a net positive impact overall. Not JAGs, non-impact rookies learning on the job, and certainly not guys offenses are looking to exploit (like Bethea, Ogletree, Baker last year).

Last year's ratio was under water. Out of 256 individual defensive starts I count:

54 went to major liabilities (Bethea, Ogletree, Baker, Haley, Hamilton, Stupar, Tae Davis). That is 20% of last year's starts.
80 starts went to net positive impact players (Jenkins, Golden, Tomlinson, Lawrence, Peppers, Williams, Connelly) - about 30%, however it should be noted several never played together at once.
That left about half the starts to JAGs and rookies (Carter, Hill, Mayo, Love, Beal, etc)

Looking forward the best news is I don't see near as many liabilities penciled into the starting lineup since Baker's role is going to need to be earned moving forward. It may seem trivial but it could make a big difference simply reducing the liabilities that were present last year by 10% or more. Remember haley, hamilton, and baker getting dominated by randall cobb vs. Dallas in key 3rd down and RZ moments?

Separately another area for optimism is that the list of potentially good players subtracts only Jenkins and Golden (as of now), but adds Bradberry, Martinez, McKinney, and if last year was any indication there may be a less heralded player like Holmes or Fackrell ready to make an impact right away.

Here's a semi-realistic best case scenario - these 8 players play well under Graham and combine to make 75% of available starts (~96):
Connelly
Williams
Tomlinson
Lawrence
Bradberry
Martinez
McKinney
Peppers

There may not be an all pro in that group but in this scenario they would account for 40% of the starts - which would be another 10% improvement over last year. Whether or not those improvements get them over the tipping point of being an actually good NFL defense I'm not sure.

I suspect some basic laws of averages will apply to the Giants.

Of the mid to late round picks, I suspect only one or two will really have an impact. My guess is Connely (in time) and Holmes are eventual fixtures, with Love and Ballantine factoring.

I think Ximines, Carter, Hill, and McIntosh are bottom of the roster career players.

To turn the corner the high round, high resource guys need to be the face. Peppers, Williams, Baker, Lawrence, Bradberry, McKinney, and Martinez have to live up to their contracts or draft position.

You can have a low batting average with the mid and late round picks, but you have to nail the high round/high resource acquisitions.

to be added. I am hoping Lawrence takes a big step this year. Competition will bring better performance and there will be much more comp this year. I think the DL will be a strength and by midseason the secondary as well....this will help the pass rush.

The bigger issue is how good of a DC is Graham and the coaches he assembled. Is he a poor/mediocre coach or is he someone who will maximize talent with diverse scheme and learned well under Belichick?

I get a little bit of a kick out of the buzz words this offseason -- diverse, multiple etc.

The thing the Dolphins and Giants had in common last year (aside from getting the doors blown off week over week) -- was routine confusion on the field.

I'm strongly hoping with a new system, all of the new faces, and the unorthodox offseason, that the Giants can field a sound, principled, group who can execute on the same page play-to-play.

Replace diverse and multiple with sound and principled. Problem fixed.

In comment 14914592 Spider56 said:

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I don’t think you can count on Connelly for much the 1st year after an ACL and Mayo is not the answer ... so there’s a definite opportunity for someone to step up and ‘fill the gap’. In addition to the mid and late round picks, I’m intrigued by several of the UDFAs and I hope they get enough of a chance to show what they can or can’t do ... DE Niko Lalos, OLB Oluwole Betiku, and CB Christian Angulo are the 3 guys that stand out.

I am concerned about Connelly’s status to start the season. He will need time to get his knee back to where it was. This is one of the reasons why I prefer to move Coughlin to ILB this season.

Coughlin is smart and according to scouting reports is solid in coverage. Graham could utilize his pass rush skills up the middle.

Exceed expectation.....

Add Golden.....with Lawrence and Williams.....should generate pressure.

I would be so happy.

Can't wait to see this D on the field. I think we could have a smart, fast, rangy defense!

Is what type of defense will we be running? I know it will be mutiple, but Are we running a 4/3 or 3/4 base package. I’m assuming 3/4, but who knows.

I like his versatility as an in the box guy + a guy who can play FS; I like his athleticism, his attitude, and his big play potential. I think we are underestimating the number of coverage mistakes, mental (coverage responsibility) and physical (angle toward the receiver/RB, biting on double patterns) that he will commit as he attempts to cope with savvy and talented NFL receivers.

Now, will edge sometime put their hand on the ground? Obviously

But remember, he is replacing Bethea.....who should have never been on the field to begin with.....

Leonard Williams won’t be jumping into a bad defense mid-season, he’ll be in the program from day one, among solid line mates and quality depth. Looking forward to strength up front, and big stops when we need them.

I was hoping for 8-8. Now i think wishfully about 6-10. Starting to think that a 10-game season will get the impending misery over sooner.

Time was the one thing this new staff and players could not afford to lose.

I'm concerned about vulnerability at CB.

Otherwise I share the optimism.

I also think one of the LBs drafted will be a pleasant surprise.

leaning toward the notion that Leonard Williams might be the key to the defense's success this year. If he plays well - and exceeds expectations as a disruptive force - they might over-achieve in 2020.

that the 96 NYG defense was going to be good until it was. Then it got even better in 97-2000.

Odds are some of these kids will develop into good pros. We need more than some to develop.

The Giants need a better starting option

The 96 Giants had much of the same core on defense as the 94 team that was a top 10 defense.

There were a bunch of players that had played and succeeded together -- Hammer, Strahan, Corey Miller, Jesse Campbell, Sparks were all starters in '94. Sehorn, Bradzke, Armstead, and Wooten had also been rookies on that good 94 defense.

It was the 4th year under Mike Nolan, in those 4 years the Giants had been a top 10 defense 3 times.

In comment 14914680 George said:

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leaning toward the notion that Leonard Williams might be the key to the defense's success this year. If he plays well - and exceeds expectations as a disruptive force - they might over-achieve in 2020.

At $16M his salary is more than everybody else on the team by a pretty big margin this year.

So yeah, he better be key to something.

Williams not only costs 6M than anyother player, the Giants are also not enjoying the usual benefits of the first year in a big contract -- 1) a lower cap hit or 2) paying down the guaranteed money.

The Giants are putting a lot of money now and potentially in the future at stake over Williams.

If he's not one of the cornerstones on defense this year, it's a disappointment.

Maybe not for 16mil...but like everyone has mentioned ....no one else is getting paid on defense....so the Giants have room

Hopefully ....a more reasonable longterm deal can be worked out.

The Giants have 5 weeks, I hope they get something worked out.

Practically, it's just so much better for the team to get this year rolled into a bigger contract.

Invest a lot of money in years 6,7,8 of his career and have the flexibility to walk away with minimal dead money in year 9.

or the past two years we looked utterly un-coached on D, and we have possibly underrated some of the young players we have as a result. We know Graham loves to blitz and guys like X and Carter could really surprise in such a mix - as well as the safeties When Fox replaced Nolan, with much of the same talent, sacks went trough the roof. I expect a nice bump, just from having a coherent D and a well taught team.

I agree with everything you state except I don't think Baker is going anywhere the charges against him are not strong because witnesses are recanting their statements. He is already back in NY with the team and working out at the facility.

In comment 14914632 ColHowPepper said:

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I like his versatility as an in the box guy + a guy who can play FS; I like his athleticism, his attitude, and his big play potential. I think we are underestimating the number of coverage mistakes, mental (coverage responsibility) and physical (angle toward the receiver/RB, biting on double patterns) that he will commit as he attempts to cope with savvy and talented NFL receivers.

Agree on this. I love the McKinney pick and I think we’re going to love him over time, but I also think missing live spring practices hurts a guy like him the most. He’ll likely be called on to start as a rookie, which means reading and adapting to NFL offensive schemes.

He comes from Saban and played against SEC competition, obviously, so he’s better equipped than most. But I agree it’s a tall order for him to avoid mistakes early on.

In comment 14914714 christian said:

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The 96 Giants had much of the same core on defense as the 94 team that was a top 10 defense. There were a bunch of players that had played and succeeded together -- Hammer, Strahan, Corey Miller, Jesse Campbell, Sparks were all starters in '94. Sehorn, Bradzke, Armstead, and Wooten had also been rookies on that good 94 defense. It was the 4th year under Mike Nolan, in those 4 years the Giants had been a top 10 defense 3 times.

True. I guess I’m hoping for a miracle

not having played together long and under a new coach and coordinator. In 2021, they'll be a very good defense.

The Giants and Dolphins blitzed virtually the same amount last year -- the Giants had more success in their pass rush across all the meaningful measurements. They were 13th in the league in blitzing.

I am not expecting Graham to step in and the Giants to become the Ravens, and be blitzing half of the time.

The one area I'm optimistic about is with more talent in the secondary, that Peppers is utilized more as a pass rusher. He was part of extra pressure far less as a Giant than he was in Cleveland, even though he was equally or more productive. That's the guy I'm excited to see getting sent home more.

the defense. Baker was better toward the end of last season, but I still wouldn't say that he was good. Connelly played well for a rookie and was lauded for having 2 interceptions in 4 games, but I remember the one against Tampa. Winston basically threw it right in his midsection. It wasn't exactly a jump-the-route play. Beal is still a mystery and Ballentine needs to show that he was more than just a small college wonder. Fackrel? Who knows? 10 sacks or 1 sack, what kind of player are the Giants getting?

On the plus side I like the addition of Martinez. I think he's a guy that's always around the ball. The D-line should be excellent against the run. Bradberry is an improvement over Jenkins just in the attitude department. I think Jenkins was more of a pain in the ass than he was worth. If there is improvement from guys like Ximines, Peppers and Love it could pay big dividends.