Giants still doesn't Baker participate in virtual off season

Giants CB DeAndre Baker's lawyer says charges could be dropped by end of week: 'I think we've got the case won'

on this.

....maybe whole incident scares him straight....and he mature as a person and becomes the player the Giants had hoped.

In comment 14914975 cjac said:

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Giants CB DeAndre Baker's lawyer says charges could be dropped by end of week: 'I think we've got the case won'

No it wouldn't. The fact that Baker has not yet been allowed by the Giants to participate in the virtual off season carries far more weight than what may very well be a PR statement by Baker's lawyer.

makes it seem like he's not showing up to them depending on how you read it.

In any case, the correct approach from both sides. Giants are waiting until there's a legal update and Baker is working out while he waits.

... Losing all that $$$$$ and early in his career, I know I would be

thread title would at least be one that wasn't penned by a Russian Yoda.

Reads like Elite Mobster32

1. Baker may have charges dropped soon.
2. Giants still telling Baker "thanks but no thanks" until #1 happens.

Is Baker done as a Giant or if he somehow gets cleared legally does he have a future?

Sometimes people don't understand that legal discipline and league discipline (and team discipline) are decoupled.

the team or league could still discipline Baker regardless of the legal status. I'm not equating Baker and Greg Hardy or their alleged crimes, but Hardy was cleared legally (and many have a theory how) but the league still suspended him I believe a year and 4 games.

The league could conduct their own investigation I guess.

Domestic violence isn't the same hot button as general violence, so not sure how the league will handle.

what do others think will happen here if "best case" Baker is cleared of wrongdoing legally?

he's still in the Giants plans. If they were getting rid of him regardless it would have been done by now.

League discipline is another matter.

Once his case is over, then they'll re-engage.
I don't expect the NFL to take any actions against Baker, the last thing they want to do is open up a can of worms about punishing players who are gambling right before they allow gambling in football.

In comment 14914987 Sec 103 said:

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... Losing all that $$$$$ and early in his career, I know I would be

Is he losing money yet? I mean, aside from his dopey gambling losses. I thought the checks are per-game and start with the season.

wouldn't expect the Giants to engage the kid until after it is. Consider the source material for this article and the motive.

It will be interesting to see how much of the real story is discovered and gets out to the public. This should be a cautionary tale to these young men, and BBIers who constantly ask what's the big deal with players and their lives/decisions away from the football field. The days of looking the other way are long gone.

In comment 14915005 UConn4523 said:

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he's still in the Giants plans. If they were getting rid of him regardless it would have been done by now. League discipline is another matter.

There is no way Baker fits into JJ's vision of the team, starting with non-participation of virtual meetings in the spring.

"Getting rid of him" scenarios include a trade (for a case of Gatorade) but that cannot be done until his legal and NFL issues are resolved.

I don't know how you can come to that conclusion. His vision of the team also includes coaching, and getting the most out of player strengths - he hasn't had the opportunity to do either yet with Baker. JJ's educational background also suggests he has compassion and patience and isn't someone that's going to jump to conclusions.

Maybe I'm wrong, but its hard for me to assess much more than that given the two likely never even met yet face to face.

In comment 14915031 KeoweeFan said:

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In comment 14915005 UConn4523 said: Quote: he's still in the Giants plans. If they were getting rid of him regardless it would have been done by now. League discipline is another matter. There is no way Baker fits into JJ's vision of the team, starting with non-participation of virtual meetings in the spring. "Getting rid of him" scenarios include a trade (for a case of Gatorade) but that cannot be done until his legal and NFL issues are resolved.

But DG invested draft capital into this kid, he’s not giving up that easy as its to his detriment if he does. Especially without a guilt verdict or incriminating evidence of wrongdoing.

Since the event?

until such time that he loses his case and they cut him. If he wins and the charges are dropped because it was a frame-up, he should be allowed to continue his career.

That said, he was in a place where he probably shouldn't have been, and carrying a gun (which I think is REQUIRED BY LAW in Florida).

If he's lucky enough to beat this, the Giants should watch him like a hawk. This was strike 1.

Hopefully he comes back clean, and the new regime plays him to his STRENGTHS rather than his weaknesses.

If the lawyer is right and the charges are dropped in the next month (much less the next week), this would be really good news.

Assuming Baker untangles his legal issues and absorbs whatever the commissioner’s office has in store for him, the Giants put a short leash on him and tell him to impress everybody everyday going forward with his effort.

If he doesn’t then the team moves on.

In comment 14914988 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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thread title would at least be one that wasn't penned by a Russian Yoda. Reads like Elite Mobster32

lol

Dispute of what the facts are.

I think the league has to investigate.

Might never truly be determined unless video appears....i suspect the NFL will not be able to go too far away from the legal case.

I believe His gun was legally owned and carried

Best case....the case gets dropped and the kid learns something and becomes a better person from experience

That he wasn't carrying his gun. Many facts are in dispute. Giants are doing the right thing by allowing this to play out. There is no need to make a decision yet.

Baker learned that he can intimidate witnesses and get away with it.

I hope and pray that he is innocent.

In comment 14915107 PhilD said:

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Baker learned that he can intimidate witnesses and get away with it. I hope and pray that he is innocent.

I'm pretty sure if the witnesses recanted, it wasn't out of fear. It was from having a much fatter wallet.

and have an effect upon his ability playing.

Then there should be no reason for Baker not to continue his career. If what we heard from Baler’s camp is true and he is completely innocent then he should stay with the team. Now, if there is something else going on that would be another thing.

let it play out, hope for the best, charges are dropped and Baker is able to effectively signal serious commitment.

In comment 14915113 BillT said:

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Then there should be no reason for Baker not to continue his career. If what we heard from Baler’s camp is true and he is completely innocent then he should stay with the team. Now, if there is something else going on that would be another thing.

Not so sure: first, Patel has shown himself to be a bit of a loose cannon, broad, inconsistent claims and, as yet, no back-up. Second, someone above said, strike one, yeah, if charges dropped, he should be re-instated. This is not strike one, it's a big strike 2, strikes 1 and 1.5 being a poor teammate and indifferent to his playbook, meetings, and responsibilities--if you don't think JJ has gotten the skinny from DG on this, think again--1.5 being awol for virtual meetings on JJ's watch.

This is far from clear cut, even if charges are dropped.

In comment 14915116 ColHowPepper said:

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In comment 14915113 BillT said: Quote: Then there should be no reason for Baker not to continue his career. If what we heard from Baler’s camp is true and he is completely innocent then he should stay with the team. Now, if there is something else going on that would be another thing. Not so sure: first, Patel has shown himself to be a bit of a loose cannon, broad, inconsistent claims and, as yet, no back-up. Second, someone above said, strike one, yeah, if charges dropped, he should be re-instated. This is not strike one, it's a big strike 2, strikes 1 and 1.5 being a poor teammate and indifferent to his playbook, meetings, and responsibilities--if you don't think JJ has gotten the skinny from DG on this, think again--1.5 being awol for virtual meetings on JJ's watch. This is far from clear cut, even if charges are dropped.

Except if there isn’t anything here that’s wrong it’s not strike anything.

First, the Giants expect the legal issues to go away or at least be substantially reduced. Here, Judge wants to send a message that he better grow up soon. Or, they expect a prison sentence or suspension and don’t want to waste time dealing with him now. There is not a lot of time for a new coaching staff to install a new program.

That said, I am not a fan of Baker and disagreed with Gettleman’s drafting him when he did especially trading up a 4th and a 5th. In that year, the Giants signed Love, Slayton and Connelly in this rounds so there was the possibility of something special in that draft. But, as of now, if Baker is not the starter, we are left with Beal who has to prove he can stay healthy let alone do the job or Ballentine who has to show he belongs in the league or Love who has to show he can play on the outside. I don’t know about other possibilities on the roster. Not that Baker is anything special but, at the end of last year, he showed something and given that teams need 3+ CBs, he is needed on this roster.

People here talk like they know what happened. They don’t and it’s foolish to speculate when you don’t have the facts. As mentioned above, the better part of the story is that there s a good chance that the charges may be dropped soon. And I say that because if the Giants don’t have Baker starting at CB whenever the season starts, it will be a huge loss. I am not a fan of Baker and count me among those who consider Gettleman’s trading up for him a bad move. But, he did get better last year after a horrendous start and I have no confidence that Beal can stay healthy or that Ballantine can be anything but depth at the position. Plus, even if Love can play the outside CB position, and that’s a huge if, a team needs at least 3 good CBs. I’m guessing that Judge wants to make a statement to Baker and let him dangle if what Baker’s lawyer said is true. And, if it’s not, why waste
time on Baker if he won’t be here for awhile.

That was written an hour ago. I thought it was lost.

In comment 14914988 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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thread title would at least be one that wasn't penned by a Russian Yoda. Reads like Elite Mobster32

The Giants are 10000% right. What IF the charges don’t get dropped but NYG let him back? They need to wait and see what happens and when/if i charges get dropped, that’s a team discussion with DeAndre.

find of Russian Yoda!!

He's awfully free with the assumptions on what the prosecutors, the Giants, and the NFL will do. And that whole scared straight angle is a double-edged sword. Also, not a lot of reporting on who was hosting that party and what kind of crowd was in attendance. Charges being dropped doesn't necessarily clear him in the eyes of the NFL or the Giants.

Surprised they have remained so quite that's not a good sign or view from a personal conduct standpoint for the NFL. Money talks BS walks, each day this case seems to represent that more and more.

Not on the Giants is no great loss year before he was not on the roster we could not stop the passing game. Last year he was on the team we could still not stop the passing game. Forget his draft status he got beaten like a drum don't see that changing. Let me say this the NFC East has some of best young talent in the game at WR. In a draft not noted for elite CB's you trade up into bottom end of the 1st round to draft one with many NFL position concerns go figure!

In comment 14915005 UConn4523 said:

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he's still in the Giants plans. If they were getting rid of him regardless it would have been done by now. League discipline is another matter.

Giants are just being careful. Baker will be practicing with the team after charges are dropped.

In comment 14915195 Dragon said:

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Not on the Giants is no great loss year before he was not on the roster we could not stop the passing game. Last year he was on the team we could still not stop the passing game. Forget his draft status he got beaten like a drum don't see that changing. Let me say this the NFC East has some of best young talent in the game at WR. In a draft not noted for elite CB's you trade up into bottom end of the 1st round to draft one with many NFL position concerns go figure!

Busting out on a first round pick is a great loss

It’s tough to be competitive when you do that.

Force feels you!

Its the first week of June, the Giants can bide their time. No reason to rush a decision

Try or try not; there is no do.

has shown that legal guilt is not a prerequisite for imposing league penalty.

I think a suspension is coming, unless he can prove he wasn't at the card game.

In comment 14915005 UConn4523 said:

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he's still in the Giants plans. If they were getting rid of him regardless it would have been done by now. League discipline is another matter.

This isn't typically the way the Giants handle things, but it could be that they're waiting for some sort of legal resolution since they're on the hook for his entire contract in full unless/until there is conduct detrimental to the team for them to void the guarantees.

That doesn't necessarily mean he's in their plans; it could mean that they don't know how much they can plan for him right now but aren't rushing to judgment.

I suppose that might just be semantics; I just don't know if uncertainty and benefit of the doubt actually equate to a vote of confidence.

LGG doesn't still know you're what the fuck talking about.

This happened.

You don’t prioritize the secondary in FA and the draft to the extent they did if they think they have a young stud already on the roster.

In comment 14915229 Gatorade Dunk said:

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In comment 14915005 UConn4523 said: Quote: he's still in the Giants plans. If they were getting rid of him regardless it would have been done by now. League discipline is another matter. This isn't typically the way the Giants handle things, but it could be that they're waiting for some sort of legal resolution since they're on the hook for his entire contract in full unless/until there is conduct detrimental to the team for them to void the guarantees. That doesn't necessarily mean he's in their plans; it could mean that they don't know how much they can plan for him right now but aren't rushing to judgment. I suppose that might just be semantics; I just don't know if uncertainty and benefit of the doubt actually equate to a vote of confidence.

I think they are waiting to see how it plays out. And because of that I have to think they are still hoping they can turn his career around. That's really it.

From a production standpoint they continued to load up on depth so life will go on without Baker, but I'm not sure they are ready to dump him. He wasn't abysmal his rookie year, he just wasn't very good. We've seen that before with many players.

With a little bit of “didn’t suck” mixed in.

In comment 14915291 ron mexico said:

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With a little bit of “didn’t suck” mixed in.

Well if you say so.

Baker has allowed a 149.9 passer rating (worst in NFL), 629 yards (third most) and six touchdowns (tied for second most) so far this season, per PFF
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and the heated discussions about drafting him at all (giving up three picks yet). Now he follows up with this. DG could swing for this if Baker turns out to be a complete bust because of his attitude and work ethic history. Character counts a lot with the Giants who have been burned before (Plaxico, Shockey, OBJ etc.). Mara / Tisch want them gone now.

In comment 14915247 ron mexico said:

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This happened. You don’t prioritize the secondary in FA and the draft to the extent they did if they think they have a young stud already on the roster.

They needed to replace Bethea and Jenkins, so they drafted McKinney and signed Bradberry. Slot CB was an issue, so they drafted Holmes. I don't think Baker factored into their decision-making at all, his play last year or his legal troubles.

In comment 14915316 ron mexico said:

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Baker has allowed a 149.9 passer rating (worst in NFL), 629 yards (third most) and six touchdowns (tied for second most) so far this season, per PFF Link - ( New Window )

I won't. He struggled, and had some flashes. If they are cutting him it will be based on his legal issues or if they think he won't work hard at fixing his play or his off the field choices. He won't be cut because he had a bad rookie year. CB is a really hard position to adapt to and any other 1st or 2nd rounder would be given more than a year to fix it.

I've also seen some rankings of Ballentines play being worse, and he isn't getting cut either.

Genuinely curious.

Anyway saying he won’t get cut for his terrible play but instead for the underlying issues that led to his terrible play is an exercise in semantics I’m not that interested in.

you're likely just digging into the knee-jerk reaction you had immediately after his arrest where his career was finished and it was a terrible pick.

That's the exercise you like to participate in....

In comment 14915350 ron mexico said:

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Genuinely curious. Anyway saying he won’t get cut for his terrible play but instead for the underlying issues that led to his terrible play is an exercise in semantics I’m not that interested in.

There are a number of games where Baker shut down his opponent. Sy covered them in his game reviews which are still archived. But he was very inconsistent.

In comment 14915350 ron mexico said:

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Genuinely curious. Anyway saying he won’t get cut for his terrible play but instead for the underlying issues that led to his terrible play is an exercise in semantics I’m not that interested in.

Well you seemed to make this about his play not just his legal issues, hence my post. I don't think its semantics at all, they are two wildly different situations (legal issues vs. play/talent), only the fate can be the same (cut/traded/retained).

That's all i've got on it, if you think he sucks we will see in 2020 if hes still here and playing. He wouldn't be the first player to not play well and turn it around, its actually happened to us with Webster and others. I'm going to go ahead and see how it goes from here.

In comment 14915354 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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you're likely just digging into the knee-jerk reaction you had immediately after his arrest where his career was finished and it was a terrible pick. That's the exercise you like to participate in....

Link?

comments about it being a terrible pick. It wasn't once it was repeatedly. And in the end you could be right. But right now he's still a Giant and hopefully will be playing football for us. If that happens we will see how he does on the field.

Not a good look to act like you never said that, you've actually said it often. Don't know about the "career over" part but your numerous posts suggest you either A don't want him here anymore or B think the Giants should get rid of him. Don't want to assume but I don't think i'm far off on it.

In comment 14915323 TMS said:

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and the heated discussions about drafting him at all (giving up three picks yet). Now he follows up with this. DG could swing for this if Baker turns out to be a complete bust because of his attitude and work ethic history. Character counts a lot with the Giants who have been burned before (Plaxico, Shockey, OBJ etc.). Mara / Tisch want them gone now.

Any luck with those OT draft profiles that had all four OTs as late first/early second grades? Or any explanation for why you said Joe Judge should have to answer for his decision to draft DeAndre Baker?

Maybe stop phrasing your own baseless (and often, factually incorrect) opinions as those of anyone else? Or worse, as though they're facts?

And feel pretty safe in that assessment.

Let me ask you if gettleman had a time machine And could do something different on draft day, do you still think he takes Baker?

But you can get a good deal on a baker jersey right now if you have confidence in him.




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I have made post saying that would be a stupid idea

but don't stop at Gettelman for that, ask Belichick if he'd draft someone other than Harry, for example. Don't really see the point in doing this, I never said Baker was a great pick. I said i'd like to see year 2 and even year 3 before putting a label on it.