My point is that there is no audience for "Bill and Ted 3". None. People my age (the only ones who even remember the first movie) aren't going to see it. The younger audience doesn't even know who these two guys are.
Based on the movie reviews I see on YouTube (there is a whole genre of YouTubers who cut movies apart now), very few of these reboots, remakes, sequels (after many years) do well, particularly the ones that try to make a buck off of nostalgia shows or movies. I can't tell you how many times when surfing the streaming services, my wife or I have said, "Oh my God, they remade (blank)?!" (These movies almost seem like they went straight to video sometimes they did so poorly).
Do you really think Bill and Ted 3 will be a commercial success?
I'm with Eric on this, and I have actually been looking forward to this. But, that trailer looks horrible. Not that you expect Oscar performances, but Winter and Reeves were dragging in that trailer. There was none of that charm from the first movie, including their Valley accents.
But once again, Hollywood has to regurgitate something that shouldn't have been done.
Can't wait until Casablanca II.
Why not remake Caddyshack?
JFC.
Are you really comparing the esteem and artistic appreciation of Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure with Casablanca?
This is being done effectively as fan service. Keanu Reeves is a beloved actor fans want the nostalgia to see him re-play the character again. It's no different than a band re-uniting and making old fans happy to see them again. Plus, for some, it's nice to see Alex Winter back in a leading role after what he went through (quit acting because of the pressure of the spotlight and dealing with trauma of being molested as a child).
30 years ago when Hollywood made its seventh Police Academy movie, I'm sure people weren't concerned about what it meant for the fate of Citizen Kane.
Paul - I never knew what happened to Winter. He disappeared for about 15-20 years, at least as an actor. But, apparently, he's been working since 2007...nothing I've seen him in, but steady work.
My point is that there is no audience for "Bill and Ted 3". None. People my age (the only ones who even remember the first movie) aren't going to see it. The younger audience doesn't even know who these two guys are.
Based on the movie reviews I see on YouTube (there is a whole genre of YouTubers who cut movies apart now), very few of these reboots, remakes, sequels (after many years) do well, particularly the ones that try to make a buck off of nostalgia shows or movies. I can't tell you how many times when surfing the streaming services, my wife or I have said, "Oh my God, they remade (blank)?!" (These movies almost seem like they went straight to video sometimes they did so poorly).
Do you really think Bill and Ted 3 will be a commercial success?
I'm with Eric on this, and I have actually been looking forward to this. But, that trailer looks horrible. Not that you expect Oscar performances, but Winter and Reeves were dragging in that trailer. There was none of that charm from the first movie, including their Valley accents.
And of course the fact that there's no George Carlin in it (RIP), makes it a pass for me. Bogus...
My point is that there is no audience for "Bill and Ted 3". None. People my age (the only ones who even remember the first movie) aren't going to see it. The younger audience doesn't even know who these two guys are.
Based on the movie reviews I see on YouTube (there is a whole genre of YouTubers who cut movies apart now), very few of these reboots, remakes, sequels (after many years) do well, particularly the ones that try to make a buck off of nostalgia shows or movies. I can't tell you how many times when surfing the streaming services, my wife or I have said, "Oh my God, they remade (blank)?!" (These movies almost seem like they went straight to video sometimes they did so poorly).
Do you really think Bill and Ted 3 will be a commercial success?
If all of these reboots/sequels do so terribly financially, then why do they keep making them?
Movie studios specifically make these movies in droves because they have a built in brand recognition. And typically with how much it costs to make and market blockbuster movies, it's safer to go with movies that have established intellectual property. Or that are superhero movies with little dialogue for international audiences. Sometimes, they even re-purpose generic movie scripts to tie them into a franchise ( I believe they did this with Live Free or Die Hard which was just a run-of-the-mill action movie).
This wasn't an expensive movie to make. It's not a blockbuster. It is a small project that the writers, Keanu, and Winter have been trying to get made for a decade because they wanted to bring the characters back (certain players I'm sure were looking to make a quick buck off another gig).
It might not do big sales at the theater. But between theaters, On Demand purchases, rentals for the earlier movies, streams when it hits services, I don't think it's a sure thing to be a flop. Plus, Keanu Reeves is an international star. Who knows how well this will do in Asia which can be a big driver of these decisions. Another thing you aren't considering is that the 90s are trendy/retro for young people now as well.
Take Dumb and Dumberer. The trailer was atrocious. I couldn't even bring myself to watch it despite how much I loved the first movie. It was panned. It made reboot made $170 million on a $50 million budget.
That the trailer for this looked weak is a reflection of the final product, not on the impetus to make the film.
FWIW, I don't expect it to be a good movie. I'll see it for free at some point because I liked the first movie and like the idea of revisiting the characters, and like Keanu. The movie doesn't have to be good. It just has to be watchable enough that I get my enjoyment for seeing the characters back on screen.
I'm pretty sure that the bulk if not all of the movies I listed were financial failures...some of them huge financial failures.
Why? I honestly think because the people who make movies today are horrible at their jobs. They steal constantly from other people's work. It's embarrassing.
I'll give you an example. I was a fan of the first season of Stranger Things. A few weeks ago, my wife and I tried a movie called Super 8. Guess what we found out? The makers of Stranger Things obviously completely ripped off Super 8 (2011 movie). It's a complete rip off.
I'm pretty sure that the bulk if not all of the movies I listed were financial failures...some of them huge financial failures.
Why? I honestly think because the people who make movies today are horrible at their jobs. They steal constantly from other people's work. It's embarrassing.
I'll give you an example. I was a fan of the first season of Stranger Things. A few weeks ago, my wife and I tried a movie called Super 8. Guess what we found out? The makers of Stranger Things obviously completely ripped off Super 8 (2011 movie). It's a complete rip off.
Eric, that's par for the course. I had a script of mine called "Simon Sez" that was ripped off all the way to the title itself. It had been making the rounds and attracting some interest and someone decided to take it and put their name on it (with just enough changes to pass). I found out about in on vacation while reading an article on it in the LA Times. My agent just shook his head.
And as far as new movies ripping off old movies -- classics like Some Like It Hot, Airplane, Taxi Driver, Star Wars, The Big Lebowski, Alien all borrow heavily or directly from other films.
George Lucas admits he lifted major themes from the Hidden Fortress for Star Wars and then basically remade it in the Phantom Menace.
I'm pretty sure that the bulk if not all of the movies I listed were financial failures...some of them huge financial failures.
Why? I honestly think because the people who make movies today are horrible at their jobs. They steal constantly from other people's work. It's embarrassing.
I'll give you an example. I was a fan of the first season of Stranger Things. A few weeks ago, my wife and I tried a movie called Super 8. Guess what we found out? The makers of Stranger Things obviously completely ripped off Super 8 (2011 movie). It's a complete rip off.
It would probably kill you to know that a lot of famous movies in the 50s and 60s ripped off movies from the 20s and 30s.
As for Hollywood and remakes, that's been going on since they began making movies. It's been said many times that the NFL is a "copycat league." Well, so is Hollywood.
Note to Eric. Casablanca has already been "remade," kind of. See the link below.
or we can watch the watered down flag football NFL game that we get today. Football stinks now compared to when I was a kid, but we all still eat it up (less for me now but I still watch the Giants + big games).
Its fine that you don't like movies made today, but you generalize it to the point where I have to call it out. And when you don't like anything at all that generally means the problem is with you and not the product. Seems pretty convenient to watch movies and not like any of them - weird in fact.
"Parasite" wasn't all the good. Also fine if you didn't like it but it begs the question - what do you like? Was the last good movie you saw "Patton"?
UConn, I think there is a reason why older movies and shows are doing so well on streaming services. It was just a better product.
I've said many times on BBI that I think there has been a definite upswing in the quality of shows made for TV on premium services (Game of Thrones is just one example... though that said, I'm reading the books now and boy did they go off script).
What did I like recently? Joker (I'm contradicting myself now on the superhero movies, but that wasn't your typical superhero movie).
1917 and Dunkirk were well done (and different in style).
I loved Grand Budapest Hotel and Moonrise Kingdom (same folks made that).
Lincoln was done very well.
They've botched Star Wars to the point where I won't even go see them anymore. I liked Force Awakens originally until I realized I just had watched a remake of A New Hope.
I actually find myself watching old stuff. Want a messed up "old movie"... re-watch High Plains Drifter or "Full Metal Jacket". Hell, even the old crappy movies are better... I re-watched "They Live" yesterday.
The last 2 Star Wars movies were a big disappointment to me as well. That said, if you haven't seen The Mandalorian yet, I would get started ASAP. What a pleasant surprise that was. Makes you think JJ Abrahms was just the wrong choice for the Star Wars franchise.
I actually think movies of this past decade have been really good, I think where the industry is suffering, is in Comedies. If you compare the best comedies from the 2000-2010 to 2011 to the present, it's like night and day. All other genres tho, I think are only getting better.
It would probably kill you to know that a lot of famous movies in the 50s and 60s ripped off movies from the 20s and 30s.
Absolutely true. However, it's a little different when virtually no one has seen those 1920-30s originals. I know the Bogart version of The Maltese Falcon wasn't the first adaptation, but I've never seen the original 1931 film. Don't know anyone else who has seen it either, so the 1941 version is the original to me. So many of the reboots/remakes/sequels of today are of films that most people know well.
Speaking of good movies that came out recently, I just got the opportunity to watch Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, and thought it was amazing. Pitt and Dicaprio have amazing chemistry, and the whole Manson cult thing was particularly engrossing. I really hope Tarentino keeps directing, if not, his style will be missed.
you bring up an interesting point with comedies. For me, I can't watch most of them, doesn't matter how old or new they are. I think we've changed as a society and an episodic format just works infinitely better for the Comedic genre.
And that's largely why I think some people have an issue with cinema in general - they don't want to admit it (and maybe its because they don't realize it) but their tastes, preferences, way they spend their free time has all changed. Many have a bad taste in their mouth with movies costs which also effects their judgement on quality. There's a lot of factors.
When I was a kid, even through my early 20's I can watch the same movie over and over again. Good movies, bad movies, didn't matter. I can't do that now, my attention span needs "new, untapped content".
Without a doubt there's fantastic movies being made. The variety of movies made today dwarfs that of past decades. And the creativity is still there too, there's just more crap mixed in - that's just going to happen.
Take a look at movie releases per year:
2000 - 371 in North America
2018 - 878 in North America
That tells me the demand has never been higher, but with that are going to be movies that you don't like, a lot more of them.
I remember walking out of the theater after seeing "The Matrix" thinking who would've guessed that the biggest action movie stars heading into the new millennium would be The Fresh Prince and "Ted."
there had to be a sidebar for this thread to have 70 posts!!
Yeah, we are all getting a lesson on how movies made today just aren't creative or well made, and are overall terrible. Its been an interesting read that's for sure.
2000 - 371 in North America
2018 - 878 in North America
That's even more disheartening because I have a hell of a time finding anything new worthwhile.
You and I just have vastly different tastes.
I don't think this is a taste thing. You've got a stigma against most things new which I've noticed in many topics across BBI. I don't buy that you not liking anything that's come out the past 10 years is a problem with the product. Movies just don't seem to be your thing (and that's 100% fine), but that doesn't mean they suck, aren't creative or aren't well made.
If we start a video game thread we will learn about everything being better in the 80's and video games now lack any sort of creativity. Rinse repeat with music.
The Mandalorian is fantastic. My son got me watching that (and the original Clone Wars cartoons).
*******
The two movies that I thought would be garbage heading into them were Napoleon Dynamite and the first Transformers movie. Dead wrong on both.
Napoleon Dynamite, absolutely!! Transformers?? Yeesh.
Regarding Keanu Reeves, I was at first unwilling to see the John Wick movies, but I was talked into watching them, and I'm thankful I did. They are a blast.
I'm on record as saying many, many times how much better television is as a product today.
Video games are infinitely better. There is no comparison whatsoever. If I had the games my son has, I never would have left my house.
The only other categories on BBI I've said were better in the past are (1) football, (2) music (there have actually been academic studies confirming how standard our music has become), and (3) movies.
You and I don't agree on movies so you want to label as me having some problem with "new things." Not the case. Unfortunately this is a product of the times we live in. If you don't like the resistance to your point of view, you personally attack your opponent.
RE: John Wick 1 is one of my favorite action movies
I'm on record as saying many, many times how much better television is as a product today.
Video games are infinitely better. There is no comparison whatsoever. If I had the games my son has, I never would have left my house.
The only other categories on BBI I've said were better in the past are (1) football, (2) music (there have actually been academic studies confirming how standard our music has become), and (3) movies.
You and I don't agree on movies so you want to label as me having some problem with "new things." Not the case. Unfortunately this is a product of the times we live in. If you don't like the resistance to your point of view, you personally attack your opponent.
I'm fine with a differing point of view. There's plenty of people that disagree with me on topics, I just need to understand the why and if the why doesn't make sense, then that leads to the back and forth as you see here.
I've even said countless times that its completely fine to not like something. But you state a lot of things as fact that just isn't true. That's my gripe, and I've called you out on it. And I'm not personally attacking you, I just don't think you are making a compelling argument. Haven't called you names or gotten nasty.
The only other categories on BBI I've said were better in the past are (1) football, (2) music (there have actually been academic studies confirming how standard our music has become), and (3) movies.
There's an argument to be made that there are an equal amount of good movies being made but that:
1) there are lots more good, average and bad movies, because there are SO many more movies made
2) fewer traditional blockbuster theater releases are "good" because that model is completely different now than in 80s, 90s, 00s
If you look at Metacritic's top 100 rated movies of all time, ~30 were made after 2010.
It's also clear as day that cinematic art and talent has transitioned to the series over feature film. I think the end result is there are a bunch of great movies being made that aren't blockbusters and a bunch if great TV because the stars and film makers have transitioned there.
I'm on record as saying many, many times how much better television is as a product today.
Video games are infinitely better. There is no comparison whatsoever. If I had the games my son has, I never would have left my house.
The only other categories on BBI I've said were better in the past are (1) football, (2) music (there have actually been academic studies confirming how standard our music has become), and (3) movies.
You and I don't agree on movies so you want to label as me having some problem with "new things." Not the case. Unfortunately this is a product of the times we live in. If you don't like the resistance to your point of view, you personally attack your opponent.
I'm fine with a differing point of view. There's plenty of people that disagree with me on topics, I just need to understand the why and if the why doesn't make sense, then that leads to the back and forth as you see here.
I've even said countless times that its completely fine to not like something. But you state a lot of things as fact that just isn't true. That's my gripe, and I've called you out on it. And I'm not personally attacking you, I just don't think you are making a compelling argument. Haven't called you names or gotten nasty.
UConn.. Go outside. He doesn't like newer movies.. who gives a shit?
I don’t actually give a shit, just weird how often Eric tells us that movies suck now. It’s a debate, no harm done. And I’m bored of discussing football analytics or Daniel Jones’ grip strength.
the movie itself isn’t great but he filming of it was pretty impressive. I think that gets lost on some people, or they just don’t care how something is made which is also fine.
I happen to think part of what makes a movie good isn’t just the story being told, it’s how it was told. We’ve got film makers today doing things never before done. For as bland a story as Avatar was seeing it in IMAX 3D was one of the coolest, if not he coolest movie theater experience I’ve ever had. Cameron basically invented his own version of 3D imaging and motion. It’s pretty incredible.
the movie itself isn’t great but he filming of it was pretty impressive. I think that gets lost on some people, or they just don’t care how something is made which is also fine.
I happen to think part of what makes a movie good isn’t just the story being told, it’s how it was told. We’ve got film makers today doing things never before done. For as bland a story as Avatar was seeing it in IMAX 3D was one of the coolest, if not he coolest movie theater experience I’ve ever had. Cameron basically invented his own version of 3D imaging and motion. It’s pretty incredible.
That's my point. Look at Avatar.... pretty to look at. Bland, formulaic story and characters. Take away the ooh and ahh cinematography and it's a crap film.
Want a great relatively recent movie? The Usual Suspects. Why? Because of the story and the characters. More of that please. Even a low budget movie can be awesome... take Swingers.
(And again, I've listed many mindless, action films that I love... even Super Hero films have their place...)
Taking me out of the equation, I suggest you try to remember the Oscar discussions on BBI that kept out of. The overwhelming opinion on the BBI Oscar threads from the last few years has been, "Meh, this isn't a great group of films." That's not me talking but tons of people on BBI. And we're talking about a group of what is supposed to be the cream of the crop films.
Eric, maybe you don't understand how Metacritic works. It's not a list of the "best."
They aggregate reviews from a really diverse set of reviewers (magazines, newpapers, bloggers, etc.) -- and come up with a score based on reviews.
It's a gauge of where critics believe a movie sits on a scale.
Boyhood getting a 100% doesn't mean anyone thinks it's the 5th best movie of all time. It means 100% of reviewers believe it's a good movie.
For someone like you who thinks movie making has tanked, it's a good tool to find good movies.
If you look down the list how many of the movies made after 2010 have you seen?
But there has been a HUGE disconnect between film critics and movie fans. Scores between both have increasingly diverged in recent years.
You're really going to get pissed at me now but I would argue that critics increasingly suck at their jobs too. Maybe they are afraid to piss of the wrong people.
The technical side and the thematic side. Some people really aren't interested in movies that are visually amazing but have weak plots, or overly confusing/convoluted plots. In my opinion, that category includes some movies that people consider all time greats - 2001: A Space Odyssey, for example. I enjoy watching it because it's visually dazzling, but I think it drags quite a bit in places and I still don't really know what the hell the ending is all about. A great cast, great direction, and great cinematography can all elevate a mediocre script for me.
Some people, though, aren't that interested in the art of moviemaking and just want an engaging story.
that's what makes it incredibly fun to watch. It wasn't trying to be Citizen Cane, it was trying to put you on a theme park ride and it did just that (if you saw it in iMax 3D).
Again, you don't like that stuff and that's perfectly fine, but that isn't everything. Plenty of incredible stories being told in today's film making.
And yes I'm on the Oscar threads. If the internet and BBI existed in 1985 there would be the exact same comments. People have wildly different tastes and there are many more movies being made now, so lots more criticism and preference.
The technical side and the thematic side. Some people really aren't interested in movies that are visually amazing but have weak plots, or overly confusing/convoluted plots. In my opinion, that category includes some movies that people consider all time greats - 2001: A Space Odyssey, for example. I enjoy watching it because it's visually dazzling, but I think it drags quite a bit in places and I still don't really know what the hell the ending is all about. A great cast, great direction, and great cinematography can all elevate a mediocre script for me.
Some people, though, aren't that interested in the art of moviemaking and just want an engaging story.
I'm in the minority on this but I actually thought 2010 was a better film.. (Of course, I'm one of those weirdos who prefers Good Fellas to the Godfather).
There Will Be Blood
Hell or High Water
Moonlight
12 Years a Slave
Grand Budapest Hotel
The Handmaiden (towards the top for me, its fantastic)
Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon (almost 0 CGI, all wires)
Social Network
Mulholland Drive
Pan's Labrynth
City of God
Ex Machina (some CGI)
Oldboy
Prisoners
Tons more but you get the point. If you don't like any of these then I really don't know what to tell you.
There Will Be Blood
Hell or High Water
Moonlight
12 Years a Slave
Grand Budapest Hotel
The Handmaiden (towards the top for me, its fantastic)
Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon (almost 0 CGI, all wires)
Social Network
Mulholland Drive
Pan's Labrynth
City of God
Ex Machina (some CGI)
Oldboy
Prisoners
Tons more but you get the point. If you don't like any of these then I really don't know what to tell you.
Yeah, its our tastes. I hated Mulholland Drive. I don't get the fuss over There Will Be Blood (reminds of the fuss over English Patient which I was supposed to like too).
I will give you Grand Budapest... that's one of my top 10 favorites.
Its the movie that opened me up to foreign film. Just an incredible piece of work. I'm glad to see foreign film finally getting traction in the states, so many great projects are now getting funded.
If you haven't seen it yet, watch the Handmaiden. I was blown away.
DDL gave the best performance I've ever seen in TWBB
coupled with the sound and cinematography and its easily in my top 5 movies ever list. I watch it atleast once per year, one of the rare movies I can watch repeatedly in a full sitting.
You're really going to get pissed at me now but I would argue that critics increasingly suck at their jobs too. Maybe they are afraid to piss of the wrong people.
That's why Metacritic aggregates from a variety of sources across the geographic, age, and media landscape. It's not just Hollywood elite critics.
So of these movies, how many have you seen:
- Boyhood
- Moonlight
- Roma
- Manchester-By-the-Sea
- 12 Years a Slave
- Parasite
- Children of Paradise
- Gravity
- The Social Network
- I am Not Your Negro
- Portrait of a Lady on Fire
- Zero Dark 30
- A Seperation
- Carol
- Before Midnight
- Dunkirk
- Amour
- 45 Years
- Mr. Turner
- The Irishman
- Amazing Grace
- Inside Out
- We Were Here
- Ladybird
- Carlos
- Marriage Story
- La La Land
- Faces Places
- Call Me by Your Name
- Shoplifters
Based on the movie reviews I see on YouTube (there is a whole genre of YouTubers who cut movies apart now), very few of these reboots, remakes, sequels (after many years) do well, particularly the ones that try to make a buck off of nostalgia shows or movies. I can't tell you how many times when surfing the streaming services, my wife or I have said, "Oh my God, they remade (blank)?!" (These movies almost seem like they went straight to video sometimes they did so poorly).
Do you really think Bill and Ted 3 will be a commercial success?
Quote:
first one was a fun movie.
But once again, Hollywood has to regurgitate something that shouldn't have been done.
Can't wait until Casablanca II.
Why not remake Caddyshack?
JFC.
Are you really comparing the esteem and artistic appreciation of Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure with Casablanca?
This is being done effectively as fan service. Keanu Reeves is a beloved actor fans want the nostalgia to see him re-play the character again. It's no different than a band re-uniting and making old fans happy to see them again. Plus, for some, it's nice to see Alex Winter back in a leading role after what he went through (quit acting because of the pressure of the spotlight and dealing with trauma of being molested as a child).
30 years ago when Hollywood made its seventh Police Academy movie, I'm sure people weren't concerned about what it meant for the fate of Citizen Kane.
But once again, Hollywood has to regurgitate something that shouldn't have been done.
Can't wait until Casablanca II.
Why not remake Caddyshack?
JFC.
Eric, it's $$$$$$$$
Quote:
My point is that there is no audience for "Bill and Ted 3". None. People my age (the only ones who even remember the first movie) aren't going to see it. The younger audience doesn't even know who these two guys are.
Based on the movie reviews I see on YouTube (there is a whole genre of YouTubers who cut movies apart now), very few of these reboots, remakes, sequels (after many years) do well, particularly the ones that try to make a buck off of nostalgia shows or movies. I can't tell you how many times when surfing the streaming services, my wife or I have said, "Oh my God, they remade (blank)?!" (These movies almost seem like they went straight to video sometimes they did so poorly).
Do you really think Bill and Ted 3 will be a commercial success?
I'm with Eric on this, and I have actually been looking forward to this. But, that trailer looks horrible. Not that you expect Oscar performances, but Winter and Reeves were dragging in that trailer. There was none of that charm from the first movie, including their Valley accents.
And of course the fact that there's no George Carlin in it (RIP), makes it a pass for me. Bogus...
Based on the movie reviews I see on YouTube (there is a whole genre of YouTubers who cut movies apart now), very few of these reboots, remakes, sequels (after many years) do well, particularly the ones that try to make a buck off of nostalgia shows or movies. I can't tell you how many times when surfing the streaming services, my wife or I have said, "Oh my God, they remade (blank)?!" (These movies almost seem like they went straight to video sometimes they did so poorly).
Do you really think Bill and Ted 3 will be a commercial success?
If all of these reboots/sequels do so terribly financially, then why do they keep making them?
Movie studios specifically make these movies in droves because they have a built in brand recognition. And typically with how much it costs to make and market blockbuster movies, it's safer to go with movies that have established intellectual property. Or that are superhero movies with little dialogue for international audiences. Sometimes, they even re-purpose generic movie scripts to tie them into a franchise ( I believe they did this with Live Free or Die Hard which was just a run-of-the-mill action movie).
This wasn't an expensive movie to make. It's not a blockbuster. It is a small project that the writers, Keanu, and Winter have been trying to get made for a decade because they wanted to bring the characters back (certain players I'm sure were looking to make a quick buck off another gig).
It might not do big sales at the theater. But between theaters, On Demand purchases, rentals for the earlier movies, streams when it hits services, I don't think it's a sure thing to be a flop. Plus, Keanu Reeves is an international star. Who knows how well this will do in Asia which can be a big driver of these decisions. Another thing you aren't considering is that the 90s are trendy/retro for young people now as well.
Take Dumb and Dumberer. The trailer was atrocious. I couldn't even bring myself to watch it despite how much I loved the first movie. It was panned. It made reboot made $170 million on a $50 million budget.
That the trailer for this looked weak is a reflection of the final product, not on the impetus to make the film.
FWIW, I don't expect it to be a good movie. I'll see it for free at some point because I liked the first movie and like the idea of revisiting the characters, and like Keanu. The movie doesn't have to be good. It just has to be watchable enough that I get my enjoyment for seeing the characters back on screen.
I can't even remember a scene from Fury Road.
Why? I honestly think because the people who make movies today are horrible at their jobs. They steal constantly from other people's work. It's embarrassing.
I'll give you an example. I was a fan of the first season of Stranger Things. A few weeks ago, my wife and I tried a movie called Super 8. Guess what we found out? The makers of Stranger Things obviously completely ripped off Super 8 (2011 movie). It's a complete rip off.
Why? I honestly think because the people who make movies today are horrible at their jobs. They steal constantly from other people's work. It's embarrassing.
I'll give you an example. I was a fan of the first season of Stranger Things. A few weeks ago, my wife and I tried a movie called Super 8. Guess what we found out? The makers of Stranger Things obviously completely ripped off Super 8 (2011 movie). It's a complete rip off.
Eric, that's par for the course. I had a script of mine called "Simon Sez" that was ripped off all the way to the title itself. It had been making the rounds and attracting some interest and someone decided to take it and put their name on it (with just enough changes to pass). I found out about in on vacation while reading an article on it in the LA Times. My agent just shook his head.
That's entertainment!
The studios have virtually relegated the theater to audio/visual experiences only. And why not? Everyone watches their movies at home.
There's so much quality film and television being made right now it's crazy.
Link - ( New Window )
George Lucas admits he lifted major themes from the Hidden Fortress for Star Wars and then basically remade it in the Phantom Menace.
Why? I honestly think because the people who make movies today are horrible at their jobs. They steal constantly from other people's work. It's embarrassing.
I'll give you an example. I was a fan of the first season of Stranger Things. A few weeks ago, my wife and I tried a movie called Super 8. Guess what we found out? The makers of Stranger Things obviously completely ripped off Super 8 (2011 movie). It's a complete rip off.
It would probably kill you to know that a lot of famous movies in the 50s and 60s ripped off movies from the 20s and 30s.
Note to Eric. Casablanca has already been "remade," kind of. See the link below.
Barb Wire (1996) - ( New Window )
Quote:
or we can watch the watered down flag football NFL game that we get today. Football stinks now compared to when I was a kid, but we all still eat it up (less for me now but I still watch the Giants + big games).
Its fine that you don't like movies made today, but you generalize it to the point where I have to call it out. And when you don't like anything at all that generally means the problem is with you and not the product. Seems pretty convenient to watch movies and not like any of them - weird in fact.
"Parasite" wasn't all the good. Also fine if you didn't like it but it begs the question - what do you like? Was the last good movie you saw "Patton"?
UConn, I think there is a reason why older movies and shows are doing so well on streaming services. It was just a better product.
I've said many times on BBI that I think there has been a definite upswing in the quality of shows made for TV on premium services (Game of Thrones is just one example... though that said, I'm reading the books now and boy did they go off script).
What did I like recently? Joker (I'm contradicting myself now on the superhero movies, but that wasn't your typical superhero movie).
1917 and Dunkirk were well done (and different in style).
I loved Grand Budapest Hotel and Moonrise Kingdom (same folks made that).
Lincoln was done very well.
They've botched Star Wars to the point where I won't even go see them anymore. I liked Force Awakens originally until I realized I just had watched a remake of A New Hope.
I actually find myself watching old stuff. Want a messed up "old movie"... re-watch High Plains Drifter or "Full Metal Jacket". Hell, even the old crappy movies are better... I re-watched "They Live" yesterday.
The last 2 Star Wars movies were a big disappointment to me as well. That said, if you haven't seen The Mandalorian yet, I would get started ASAP. What a pleasant surprise that was. Makes you think JJ Abrahms was just the wrong choice for the Star Wars franchise.
I actually think movies of this past decade have been really good, I think where the industry is suffering, is in Comedies. If you compare the best comedies from the 2000-2010 to 2011 to the present, it's like night and day. All other genres tho, I think are only getting better.
It would probably kill you to know that a lot of famous movies in the 50s and 60s ripped off movies from the 20s and 30s.
Absolutely true. However, it's a little different when virtually no one has seen those 1920-30s originals. I know the Bogart version of The Maltese Falcon wasn't the first adaptation, but I've never seen the original 1931 film. Don't know anyone else who has seen it either, so the 1941 version is the original to me. So many of the reboots/remakes/sequels of today are of films that most people know well.
Speaking of good movies that came out recently, I just got the opportunity to watch Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, and thought it was amazing. Pitt and Dicaprio have amazing chemistry, and the whole Manson cult thing was particularly engrossing. I really hope Tarentino keeps directing, if not, his style will be missed.
And that's largely why I think some people have an issue with cinema in general - they don't want to admit it (and maybe its because they don't realize it) but their tastes, preferences, way they spend their free time has all changed. Many have a bad taste in their mouth with movies costs which also effects their judgement on quality. There's a lot of factors.
When I was a kid, even through my early 20's I can watch the same movie over and over again. Good movies, bad movies, didn't matter. I can't do that now, my attention span needs "new, untapped content".
Without a doubt there's fantastic movies being made. The variety of movies made today dwarfs that of past decades. And the creativity is still there too, there's just more crap mixed in - that's just going to happen.
Take a look at movie releases per year:
2000 - 371 in North America
2018 - 878 in North America
That tells me the demand has never been higher, but with that are going to be movies that you don't like, a lot more of them.
I remember walking out of the theater after seeing "The Matrix" thinking who would've guessed that the biggest action movie stars heading into the new millennium would be The Fresh Prince and "Ted."
Yeah, we are all getting a lesson on how movies made today just aren't creative or well made, and are overall terrible. Its been an interesting read that's for sure.
*******
The two movies that I thought would be garbage heading into them were Napoleon Dynamite and the first Transformers movie. Dead wrong on both.
2018 - 878 in North America
That's even more disheartening because I have a hell of a time finding anything new worthwhile.
You and I just have vastly different tastes.
2018 - 878 in North America
That's even more disheartening because I have a hell of a time finding anything new worthwhile.
You and I just have vastly different tastes.
I don't think this is a taste thing. You've got a stigma against most things new which I've noticed in many topics across BBI. I don't buy that you not liking anything that's come out the past 10 years is a problem with the product. Movies just don't seem to be your thing (and that's 100% fine), but that doesn't mean they suck, aren't creative or aren't well made.
If we start a video game thread we will learn about everything being better in the 80's and video games now lack any sort of creativity. Rinse repeat with music.
*******
The two movies that I thought would be garbage heading into them were Napoleon Dynamite and the first Transformers movie. Dead wrong on both.
Napoleon Dynamite, absolutely!! Transformers?? Yeesh.
Regarding Keanu Reeves, I was at first unwilling to see the John Wick movies, but I was talked into watching them, and I'm thankful I did. They are a blast.
I'm on record as saying many, many times how much better television is as a product today.
Video games are infinitely better. There is no comparison whatsoever. If I had the games my son has, I never would have left my house.
The only other categories on BBI I've said were better in the past are (1) football, (2) music (there have actually been academic studies confirming how standard our music has become), and (3) movies.
You and I don't agree on movies so you want to label as me having some problem with "new things." Not the case. Unfortunately this is a product of the times we live in. If you don't like the resistance to your point of view, you personally attack your opponent.
Yeah, seemed like a movie that's just easy to write off, but ended blowing away my expectations.
I'm on record as saying many, many times how much better television is as a product today.
Video games are infinitely better. There is no comparison whatsoever. If I had the games my son has, I never would have left my house.
The only other categories on BBI I've said were better in the past are (1) football, (2) music (there have actually been academic studies confirming how standard our music has become), and (3) movies.
You and I don't agree on movies so you want to label as me having some problem with "new things." Not the case. Unfortunately this is a product of the times we live in. If you don't like the resistance to your point of view, you personally attack your opponent.
I'm fine with a differing point of view. There's plenty of people that disagree with me on topics, I just need to understand the why and if the why doesn't make sense, then that leads to the back and forth as you see here.
I've even said countless times that its completely fine to not like something. But you state a lot of things as fact that just isn't true. That's my gripe, and I've called you out on it. And I'm not personally attacking you, I just don't think you are making a compelling argument. Haven't called you names or gotten nasty.
There's an argument to be made that there are an equal amount of good movies being made but that:
1) there are lots more good, average and bad movies, because there are SO many more movies made
2) fewer traditional blockbuster theater releases are "good" because that model is completely different now than in 80s, 90s, 00s
If you look at Metacritic's top 100 rated movies of all time, ~30 were made after 2010.
It's also clear as day that cinematic art and talent has transitioned to the series over feature film. I think the end result is there are a bunch of great movies being made that aren't blockbusters and a bunch if great TV because the stars and film makers have transitioned there.
Quote:
That's simply not true.
I'm on record as saying many, many times how much better television is as a product today.
Video games are infinitely better. There is no comparison whatsoever. If I had the games my son has, I never would have left my house.
The only other categories on BBI I've said were better in the past are (1) football, (2) music (there have actually been academic studies confirming how standard our music has become), and (3) movies.
You and I don't agree on movies so you want to label as me having some problem with "new things." Not the case. Unfortunately this is a product of the times we live in. If you don't like the resistance to your point of view, you personally attack your opponent.
I'm fine with a differing point of view. There's plenty of people that disagree with me on topics, I just need to understand the why and if the why doesn't make sense, then that leads to the back and forth as you see here.
I've even said countless times that its completely fine to not like something. But you state a lot of things as fact that just isn't true. That's my gripe, and I've called you out on it. And I'm not personally attacking you, I just don't think you are making a compelling argument. Haven't called you names or gotten nasty.
UConn.. Go outside. He doesn't like newer movies.. who gives a shit?
And Boyhood is the 5th best movie of all time?
This is a terrible ranking. Old, modern, whatever your taste
https://www.metacritic.com/browse/movies/score/metascore/all/filtered - ( New Window )
I happen to think part of what makes a movie good isn’t just the story being told, it’s how it was told. We’ve got film makers today doing things never before done. For as bland a story as Avatar was seeing it in IMAX 3D was one of the coolest, if not he coolest movie theater experience I’ve ever had. Cameron basically invented his own version of 3D imaging and motion. It’s pretty incredible.
I happen to think part of what makes a movie good isn’t just the story being told, it’s how it was told. We’ve got film makers today doing things never before done. For as bland a story as Avatar was seeing it in IMAX 3D was one of the coolest, if not he coolest movie theater experience I’ve ever had. Cameron basically invented his own version of 3D imaging and motion. It’s pretty incredible.
That's my point. Look at Avatar.... pretty to look at. Bland, formulaic story and characters. Take away the ooh and ahh cinematography and it's a crap film.
Want a great relatively recent movie? The Usual Suspects. Why? Because of the story and the characters. More of that please. Even a low budget movie can be awesome... take Swingers.
(And again, I've listed many mindless, action films that I love... even Super Hero films have their place...)
Taking me out of the equation, I suggest you try to remember the Oscar discussions on BBI that kept out of. The overwhelming opinion on the BBI Oscar threads from the last few years has been, "Meh, this isn't a great group of films." That's not me talking but tons of people on BBI. And we're talking about a group of what is supposed to be the cream of the crop films.
They aggregate reviews from a really diverse set of reviewers (magazines, newpapers, bloggers, etc.) -- and come up with a score based on reviews.
It's a gauge of where critics believe a movie sits on a scale.
Boyhood getting a 100% doesn't mean anyone thinks it's the 5th best movie of all time. It means 100% of reviewers believe it's a good movie.
For someone like you who thinks movie making has tanked, it's a good tool to find good movies.
If you look down the list how many of the movies made after 2010 have you seen?
They aggregate reviews from a really diverse set of reviewers (magazines, newpapers, bloggers, etc.) -- and come up with a score based on reviews.
It's a gauge of where critics believe a movie sits on a scale.
Boyhood getting a 100% doesn't mean anyone thinks it's the 5th best movie of all time. It means 100% of reviewers believe it's a good movie.
For someone like you who thinks movie making has tanked, it's a good tool to find good movies.
If you look down the list how many of the movies made after 2010 have you seen?
But there has been a HUGE disconnect between film critics and movie fans. Scores between both have increasingly diverged in recent years.
You're really going to get pissed at me now but I would argue that critics increasingly suck at their jobs too. Maybe they are afraid to piss of the wrong people.
Some people, though, aren't that interested in the art of moviemaking and just want an engaging story.
Again, you don't like that stuff and that's perfectly fine, but that isn't everything. Plenty of incredible stories being told in today's film making.
And yes I'm on the Oscar threads. If the internet and BBI existed in 1985 there would be the exact same comments. People have wildly different tastes and there are many more movies being made now, so lots more criticism and preference.
Some people, though, aren't that interested in the art of moviemaking and just want an engaging story.
I'm in the minority on this but I actually thought 2010 was a better film.. (Of course, I'm one of those weirdos who prefers Good Fellas to the Godfather).
There Will Be Blood
Hell or High Water
Moonlight
12 Years a Slave
Grand Budapest Hotel
The Handmaiden (towards the top for me, its fantastic)
Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon (almost 0 CGI, all wires)
Social Network
Mulholland Drive
Pan's Labrynth
City of God
Ex Machina (some CGI)
Oldboy
Prisoners
Tons more but you get the point. If you don't like any of these then I really don't know what to tell you.
There Will Be Blood
Hell or High Water
Moonlight
12 Years a Slave
Grand Budapest Hotel
The Handmaiden (towards the top for me, its fantastic)
Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon (almost 0 CGI, all wires)
Social Network
Mulholland Drive
Pan's Labrynth
City of God
Ex Machina (some CGI)
Oldboy
Prisoners
Tons more but you get the point. If you don't like any of these then I really don't know what to tell you.
Yeah, its our tastes. I hated Mulholland Drive. I don't get the fuss over There Will Be Blood (reminds of the fuss over English Patient which I was supposed to like too).
I will give you Grand Budapest... that's one of my top 10 favorites.
Oh hell no
Its the movie that opened me up to foreign film. Just an incredible piece of work. I'm glad to see foreign film finally getting traction in the states, so many great projects are now getting funded.
If you haven't seen it yet, watch the Handmaiden. I was blown away.
That's why Metacritic aggregates from a variety of sources across the geographic, age, and media landscape. It's not just Hollywood elite critics.
So of these movies, how many have you seen:
- Boyhood
- Moonlight
- Roma
- Manchester-By-the-Sea
- 12 Years a Slave
- Parasite
- Children of Paradise
- Gravity
- The Social Network
- I am Not Your Negro
- Portrait of a Lady on Fire
- Zero Dark 30
- A Seperation
- Carol
- Before Midnight
- Dunkirk
- Amour
- 45 Years
- Mr. Turner
- The Irishman
- Amazing Grace
- Inside Out
- We Were Here
- Ladybird
- Carlos
- Marriage Story
- La La Land
- Faces Places
- Call Me by Your Name
- Shoplifters