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NFT: T. Roosevelt statue removal from Museum of Natural History

flycatcher : 6/21/2020 11:46 pm
Teddy Roosevelt’s statue will stricken the American Museum of Natural History, an institution that was founded by his father.

TR was a bona fide naturalist who doubled the amount of national parks while he was president and also paved the way for future conservation by enacting the Antiquities Act of 1906.
Ironically, from his wiki:
“ His lifelong interest in zoology began at age seven when he saw a dead seal at a local market; after obtaining the seal's head, Roosevelt and two cousins formed what they called the "Roosevelt Museum of Natural History". Having learned the rudiments of taxidermy, he recorded his observation of insects in a paper entitled "The Natural History of Insects".”

He loved nature and devoted his life to protect it. He loved New York, too. David McCullough’s “Mornings on Horseback” is a terrific biography; you should read it before it’s banned.
Link - ( New Window )
It’s removal has nothing to do with Roosevelt  
Jim in Fairfax : 6/22/2020 12:01 am : link
And his great-grandson Teddy V agrees it the right decision.
FYI, this is the statue  
Gary from The East End : Admin : 6/22/2020 12:09 am : link
RE: It’s removal has nothing to do with Roosevelt  
Matt M. : 6/22/2020 12:10 am : link
In comment 14923071 Jim in Fairfax said:
Quote:
And his great-grandson Teddy V agrees it the right decision.
So why not have a new statue of just Teddy made to repLace it?
I blame South Dakota  
j_rud : 6/22/2020 12:37 am : link
.
Can some historian help fill me in?  
robbieballs2003 : 6/22/2020 12:45 am : link
I am so ignorant when it comes to history. Was the purpose of this statue meant to show what people are claiming or are people making a big deal about this because Roosevelt is higher on a horse than a black man and Native American? I have no idea when this statue went up but it seems like a stretch for someone to create a statue of Roosevelt while also taking a shot at other races. Not saying that didn't happen though. Stranger things have happened. Just seems odd.
RE: FYI, this is the statue  
flycatcher : 6/22/2020 12:53 am : link
In comment 14923072 Gary from The East End said:
Quote:

It’s in the linked article.
According to the museum, the architect’s intent was to depict “a heroic group” - here’s what the museum director said:
“ Pope refers to the figures as a ‘heroic group.’ That’s important. In some criticisms, the standing figures were taken to be lesser than Roosevelt. That was never the intention. They are allegorical figures representing Africa and America, emphasized by the animals on the parapet reliefs.”—Harriet F. Senie, Director, M.A. Art History, Art Museum Studies, The City College of New York”
RE: FYI, this is the statue  
adamg : 6/22/2020 12:58 am : link
In comment 14923072 Gary from The East End said:
Quote:


Verdict: Guilty

Thanks for clearing this up, Gary. Come on. That's clearly depicting Black and Native people as subservient.
RE: It’s removal has nothing to do with Roosevelt  
flycatcher : 6/22/2020 1:08 am : link
In comment 14923071 Jim in Fairfax said:
Quote:
And his great-grandson Teddy V agrees it the right decision.


That’s a relief to hear, but sadly this distinction won’t be made by many in the media, and few will have courage to stand up for TR and say, for instance, that TR was the first president to host an African-American, (link related).
Prez TR hosts Booker T. Washington - ( New Window )
RE: RE: It’s removal has nothing to do with Roosevelt  
Jim in Fairfax : 6/22/2020 1:13 am : link
In comment 14923073 Matt M. said:
Quote:
In comment 14923071 Jim in Fairfax said:


Quote:


And his great-grandson Teddy V agrees it the right decision.

So why not have a new statue of just Teddy made to repLace it?

I’m sure if you offer to commission and donate a worthy replacement they’ll consider it. In the meantime, they’re naming the Hall of Biodiversity for Roosevelt.
RE: RE: FYI, this is the statue  
flycatcher : 6/22/2020 1:23 am : link
In comment 14923080 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 14923072 Gary from The East End said:


Quote:






Verdict: Guilty

Thanks for clearing this up, Gary. Come on. That's clearly depicting Black and Native people as subservient.

Now that you bring this up, I’m not seeing subservience. I see noble solidarity in that sculpture, standing tall, eyes forward; which lines up with the original intent that it’s supposed to be a “heroic group”.
Imo  
Bill2 : 6/22/2020 1:23 am : link
good care less about the statue and ots removal.

I am in favor of making sure Teddy Roosevelt is commemorated at the museum...a lot.

His father's house was were the charter was drawn up and signed. Roosevelt's family and Roosevelt himself donated specimens early Nd often.

Across a lifetime he donated a staggering amount to the museum, the Peabody, the Chicago Museum of Natural History and the Smithsonian.

Although a man of his times he was also man who looked far into the future.

For example, many of you remember he got shot campaigning as the Bull Moose Party. The folded up papers which helped stop the bullet was the handwritten pledges of what Roosevelt promised to do as President.

90% of it got done and is current law. We know it as the New Deal and Johnsons Great Society legislation. Actually they nominated and passed what TR saw as protection the majority of Americans needed and deserved to be safe in a capitalist and corporatism society.

As for the statue, even his family hS asked for it to be removed as not representative of what he thought or did.

Non story. Hopefully they replace it with another statue of TR...or nothing at all
The statue is over the top ridiculous  
moespree : 6/22/2020 1:24 am : link
And I don't see a problem with removing it. If they replace it with a new one, I don't see a problem with that either. But this particular one is absurd and should be removed.
RE: RE: It’s removal has nothing to do with Roosevelt  
sb from NYT Forum : 6/22/2020 1:25 am : link
In comment 14923082 flycatcher said:
Quote:
In comment 14923071 Jim in Fairfax said:


Quote:


And his great-grandson Teddy V agrees it the right decision.



That’s a relief to hear, but sadly this distinction won’t be made by many in the media, and few will have courage to stand up for TR and say, for instance, that TR was the first president to host an African-American, (link related). Prez TR hosts Booker T. Washington - ( New Window )


"That’s a relief to hear..." So what the fuck actually is your point? Just want to start some phantom outrage?
RE: Imo  
flycatcher : 6/22/2020 1:50 am : link
In comment 14923085 Bill2 said:
Quote:
good care less about the statue and ots removal.

I am in favor of making sure Teddy Roosevelt is commemorated at the museum...a lot.

His father's house was were the charter was drawn up and signed. Roosevelt's family and Roosevelt himself donated specimens early Nd often.

Across a lifetime he donated a staggering amount to the museum, the Peabody, the Chicago Museum of Natural History and the Smithsonian.

Although a man of his times he was also man who looked far into the future.

For example, many of you remember he got shot campaigning as the Bull Moose Party. The folded up papers which helped stop the bullet was the handwritten pledges of what Roosevelt promised to do as President.

90% of it got done and is current law. We know it as the New Deal and Johnsons Great Society legislation. Actually they nominated and passed what TR saw as protection the majority of Americans needed and deserved to be safe in a capitalist and corporatism society.

As for the statue, even his family hS asked for it to be removed as not representative of what he thought or did.

Non story. Hopefully they replace it with another statue of TR...or nothing at all

Great stuff, never heard about the folded up pledges before. What he achieved was absolutely staggering, he personified “walking the walk”.
I love that people think it's a debate to had  
Nitro : 6/22/2020 1:51 am : link
when mobs that deface Washington, Grant, and so on statues with zero penalty are still active and being encouraged.

Every statue will be pulled down eventually. Doesn't matter who, there's no limiting ideology other than it represents something in the past.
When do the books start burning?  
George from PA : 6/22/2020 3:59 am : link
.
George  
XBRONX : 6/22/2020 6:06 am : link
Right after they come for your guns. LMAO
Very famous quote  
XBRONX : 6/22/2020 6:34 am : link
Roosevelt once said of Native Americans: ‘I don’t go so far as to think that the only good Indians are dead Indians, but I believe nine out of ten are, and I shouldn’t like to inquire too closely into the case of the tenth.’
If you want to learn a lot more about T.R....  
BamaBlue : 6/22/2020 7:19 am : link
I highly recommend the book, Theodore Rex by Edmund Morris. It is a fantastic and detailed account of a very significant period of Teddy Roosevelt's life from the moment McKinley is shot and Roosevelt becomes President, through his two terms and ends with his final day in office.

BTW... when Roosevelt left office as President, he was a relatively young man of 50 years...
They toppled a statue of George Washington...  
Bill L : 6/22/2020 7:34 am : link
I actually would like to watch the implosion when they remove the Monument.

btw, for those people who will throw away their dollar bills in disgust...I'll take them.
Bulldoze Gettysburg.  
Crispino : 6/22/2020 7:42 am : link
Well, at least half of it, anyway.
revise all history  
Sec 103 : 6/22/2020 7:47 am : link
and damn the results
since we are canceling  
Burt64 : 6/22/2020 7:56 am : link
history, i wonder when the Democrats will be forced to change their name.
RE: Imo  
KeoweeFan : 6/22/2020 7:56 am : link
In comment 14923085 Bill2 said:
Quote:
good care less about the statue and ots removal.

I am in favor of making sure Teddy Roosevelt is commemorated at the museum...a lot.

His father's house was were the charter was drawn up and signed. Roosevelt's family and Roosevelt himself donated specimens early Nd often.

Across a lifetime he donated a staggering amount to the museum, the Peabody, the Chicago Museum of Natural History and the Smithsonian.

Although a man of his times he was also man who looked far into the future.

For example, many of you remember he got shot campaigning as the Bull Moose Party. The folded up papers which helped stop the bullet was the handwritten pledges of what Roosevelt promised to do as President.

90% of it got done and is current law. We know it as the New Deal and Johnsons Great Society legislation. Actually they nominated and passed what TR saw as protection the majority of Americans needed and deserved to be safe in a capitalist and corporatism society.

As for the statue, even his family hS asked for it to be removed as not representative of what he thought or did.

Non story. Hopefully they replace it with another statue of TR...or nothing at all

Think you may have mixed up the Roosevelts. The New Deal was the work of his Democrat 5th cousin Franklin.
This is such a stupid headline  
pjcas18 : 6/22/2020 8:01 am : link
meant to inflame. This is not really a "T. Roosevelt" statue.

Also, 'lol, right after they come from your guns"

guess what, Minnesota has removed Mark Twain (Huck Finn) and Harper Lee (To Kill a Mockingbird) from all public school curriculum. Because of the "uncomfortable atmosphere" their language creates. Isn't that the point?

"Book burning" is happening and we're not better as a society for it.

I don't think every statue should stay or every book is appropriate, but I don't think the knee jerk reactions do what people think.

Statues of Ulysses S. Grant are being torn down. The guy had his eulogy written by Frederick Douglas. These were Douglas' words describing Grant: "a man too broad for prejudice, too humane to despise the humblest, too great to be small at any point. In him the Negro found a protector, the Indian a friend, a vanquished foe a brother, an imperiled nation a savior.”

People deserve this and those cheering it on, should be the first ones hit by this karma.
RE: George  
section125 : 6/22/2020 8:03 am : link
In comment 14923094 XBRONX said:
Quote:
Right after they come for your guns. LMAO


Well, since they toppled Grant (it was San Francisco, though) you might as well burn the books.

Yeah, I disagree with this one...  
x meadowlander : 6/22/2020 8:04 am : link
...in cases of Confederate symbology, the point is to strike out against active racism - many of those statues and flags were produced as a response to Civil Rights movements, the 'Rebel Flag' was popularized long after the Civil War ended. Racist fucklords proudly fly the Rebel flag off their porche and pickups. Racist, and damned proud of it. Fuck them.

The Roosevelt statue doesn't represent a modern belief about Roosevelt or America's relationship with Native Americans and Africans - to me, a museum is exactly where such a statue belongs, to remember the twisted, perverted beginnings of this country and the way America tried to rewrite that history as one of America leading the way, rather than the actual genocide and slavery that took place.

I understand why people want to take Teddy down, but I hope they done - the ancient, negative, imperialist, racist overtones of that statue is EXACTLY why it should stay.

Never Forget.
I agree with PJ  
ron mexico : 6/22/2020 8:10 am : link
Our history is important and should be preserved and taught. Even the uncomfortable parts.
Books need to stay  
UConn4523 : 6/22/2020 8:12 am : link
but the statues I don’t care about as many are constant reminders of a time when Americans were poorly treated/oppressed. We choose really weird things to commemorate, it’s always been odd to me.
KeoweeFan  
Bill2 : 6/22/2020 8:27 am : link
Sorry. I know exactly what I said and why I said it.

The clear advocacy or those policies was from TR. The implementation ( granted a harder task) was FDR.

True. Factual. Real.

Take care

ridiculous  
DTgiants : 6/22/2020 8:28 am : link
When will this stop!
Easy to begin to research  
Bill2 : 6/22/2020 8:31 am : link
The Progressive Party was built on the strength of Roosevelt's ideas. Roosevelt portrayed himself as an advocate for the average citizen, whom he said should play a larger role in government. His running mate Johnson was a progressive governor of his state, who had a record of successfully implementing social reforms.

True to Roosevelt's progressive beliefs, the platform of the party called for major reforms including women's suffrage, social welfare assistance for women and children, farm relief, revisions in banking, health insurance in industries, and worker's compensation. The party also wanted an easier method to amend the constitution.

Many prominent social reformers were drawn to the Progressives, including Jane Addams of Hull House, Survey magazine editor Paul Kellogg, Florence Kelley of Henry Street Settlement, Owen Lovejoy of the National Child Labor Committee, and Margaret Dreier Robins of the National Women's Trade Union.

Some of the names in the last paragraph can also be found as advisors to some New Deal circles

My point is that its easy to do your homework on this subject...enjoy
We have reached a point..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/22/2020 8:40 am : link
where determinations about the past are being made by a select group, which is exactly what has been railed upon for years.

Instead of misrepresenting history or suppressing it to look favorably, we now are creating narratives to cast doubt on anyone depicted in a statue.

If we don't trust ourselves to learn from history, it just becomes a different form of censorship.

Crazy fucking times we are in now where mob rule is driving certain reactions and actions
RE: When do the books start burning?  
Beer Man : 6/22/2020 8:41 am : link
In comment 14923092 George from PA said:
Quote:
.
+1
Mind blowing  
HomerJones45 : 6/22/2020 8:42 am : link
Apparently, "allegory" is too much to contemplate.

Wonder what will happen to the large allegorical figure sitting on the island in the Harbor.
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