NFT: Electric Car or Hybrid Car?

Maybe one day fast charging and nationwide infrastructure will get to a point that changes my mind, but for now any vehicle I buy needs to be able to go anywhere in the country sny time I want without hassel.

Electric cars are too limited.

What's her typical commute like? What other things would you use the car for?

If you want one because you think they're cool or fun, that's one thing. But if you are looking at straight practicality and economics, there aren't a lot of use cases where it makes sense.

Teslas are very expensive and they have questionable reliability. I would be very concerned about owning one out of warranty.

I think a plugin hybrid is probably the sweet spot now. You can drive on electric power for most of your journeys and still have the gas engine for longer trips. I was considering the Chevy Volt, but they stopped making them.

unless its your back up car. Just too much downside for not that much savings.

My neighbor has an electric Kia that he charges off of his Tesla battery + solar panels. Its his 2nd car that his wife uses for their commute and it works great for that. But they can't do an extended drive with it (which is where his gas car comes in).

The Chevy Volt was such a great car. Having some capacity for gas is a game changer, makes it feasible to drive anywhere with it.

I have a hybrid Rav 4 and get about 37 mpg with it, the new ones apparently get 40 mpg. They are also releasing a fully Electric Rav 4 soon too which I believe starts under $40k.

The Rav4 Prime is being released and will go 40 miles on electric before switching to gas. It is faster than the old v6 Rav4.

and you need to travel? During hurricane Irene or Sandy, we had no power for about 9 days. This means we also would have had no way to charge the vehicle. Not even sure that a standard gas generator would be able to handle that if needed.

Unless you really like technology and embrace what is needed to mange an electric car.

Why not go with they Toyota Camry Hybrid?
51 city / 53 highway. The Camry is a great car.

30 miles of plugin range and over 600 miles of gas range.

Decent price, even for the top end model.

In comment 14923277 Teletran1 said:

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The Rav4 Prime is being released and will go 40 miles on electric before switching to gas. It is faster than the old v6 Rav4.

Yup, seems like a Summer release?

I just went month to month on my 2017 Rav 4 hybrid - lease is up but Toyota Financial gave an up 6 month extension for COVID. I barely drive right now but didn't want to give up the 2nd car just yet.

This will bring me through November-ish and maybe I can get lucky on a good deal for the new Prime model.

Subaru Crosstrek plug in hybrid.
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 14923261 giants#1 said:

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What's her typical commute like? What other things would you use the car for?

Her Typical commute is a 20 mile/35 minute ride - she has to go over the Shawangunk Ridge and needs good traction in the winter. This would be her primary car -- she travels all over to visit donors (I estimate about 20K miles a year and does not include her flying and car rentals), special events, church.

In comment 14923280 ZogZerg said:

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Unless you really like technology and embrace what is needed to mange an electric car. Why not go with they Toyota Camry Hybrid? 51 city / 53 highway. The Camry is a great car.

ZZ thnx -- will look into the Camry

In comment 14923288 Gary from The East End said:

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30 miles of plugin range and over 600 miles of gas range. Decent price, even for the top end model.

I looked at the Ioniq and it as a few short comings -- including that it doesn't handle well on a bumpy surface -- we have a ½ mile of rural dirt and gravel road which I maintain and that she has to traverse out and back into every time see leaves our property

In comment 14923289 UConn4523 said:

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In comment 14923277 Teletran1 said: Quote: The Rav4 Prime is being released and will go 40 miles on electric before switching to gas. It is faster than the old v6 Rav4. Yup, seems like a Summer release? I just went month to month on my 2017 Rav 4 hybrid - lease is up but Toyota Financial gave an up 6 month extension for COVID. I barely drive right now but didn't want to give up the 2nd car just yet. This will bring me through November-ish and maybe I can get lucky on a good deal for the new Prime model.

Will look into that - thnx

my next car is going to be an electric, but two things have to happen. The price of electrics has to come down and the batteries have to recharge faster. There are advantages, such as lower maintenance costs and fuel savings, but I'm not paying out the yin-yang to have a status symbol. From what I've read the price is expect to go down anywhere from the next two to five years.

I would probably still hold on to a gas engine car for long trips.

In comment 14923294 Heisenberg said:

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Subaru Crosstrek plug in hybrid. Link - ( New Window )

Yeah I looked at that one -- I like Subaru - but the reviews on it as MEH -- it's dressed like a crossover with low power and no awd - no storage

Every model.

so sedans and crossovers are out. Smallest i'd go is the Rav 4 size, having more cargo room is just a must as well as sitting up higher.

But its a decent all around platform. Better AWD then most actually.

Ive considered the gas version of the crosstrek. Still do.

In comment 14923308 gidiefor said:

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In comment 14923294 Heisenberg said: Quote: Subaru Crosstrek plug in hybrid. Link - ( New Window ) Yeah I looked at that one -- I like Subaru - but the reviews on it as MEH -- it's dressed like a crossover with low power and no awd - no storage

sorry it does have awd -- sneakers is right -- and it's peppier than I wrote -- the storage issue is real though - and she is a traveling storage unit

Incredible. Love it.

The convenience factor is just off the charts. The fact that I never have to go to a gas station or worry about charging during my commute is amazing. Only if I need to take a trip over 250 miles does it become a thought.

That's the key...it has to match your lifestyle.

Drive less than 200 mile a day?? Go electric and gone are the days of stopping at a gas station on the way home or waking up in the morning realizing you need to leave 10 mins early to get gas (or getting in the car and seeing that light!)

I wake up every morning with the car charged. It's the best thing ever for me.

But that might not work for everyone.

or the Lincoln MKZ if you want super fancy.
I drive 43 miles one way to work and average 36 MPG in the AM, mostly highway driving around 80 MPH and 42 MPG on the return trip, 50/50 back roads and highway.
The numbers will go up with more city driving or slower highway speeds. I have seen stupid high numbers in short trips starting with full batteries,(58 on a 20 mile trip) even with highway speeds. You can optimize your driving style to get even more out of these cars, but they do well enough for average drivers.
*Battery capacitance is reduced in cold weather so the numbers decrease in the winter to around 30-32, 37ish in the afternoon.
The Fords can be had substantially cheaper than the Camry or Honda equivalents.

If electric cars are truly going to compete they should have gone with a universal battery system. On long trips you pull into a station and they swap out the battery for a fully charged one and off you go.
That being said, bought my son a used Camry hybrid and it will run forever.

That's the way I would go for now. Reliability plus longevity.

I love it. We've had no issues (although there was just a recall that sounded ominous -- ours was not affected), and there have been a few times where we've hit 1300 miles on a single tank of gas. I think we get gas ten times a year. We compromise nothing in terms of practicality and features and it actually accelerates pretty well.

My wife was a skeptic and now she sings its praises louder than anyone.

In comment 14923324 MattinKY said:

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or the Lincoln MKZ if you want super fancy. I drive 43 miles one way to work and average 36 MPG in the AM, mostly highway driving around 80 MPH and 42 MPG on the return trip, 50/50 back roads and highway. The numbers will go up with more city driving or slower highway speeds. I have seen stupid high numbers in short trips starting with full batteries,(58 on a 20 mile trip) even with highway speeds. You can optimize your driving style to get even more out of these cars, but they do well enough for average drivers. *Battery capacitance is reduced in cold weather so the numbers decrease in the winter to around 30-32, 37ish in the afternoon. The Fords can be had substantially cheaper than the Camry or Honda equivalents.

I thought Ford was discontinuing the Fusion. That being said, my father thinks his Lincoln MKZ Hybrid is the best vehicle he has ever owned. I know someone mentioned the Toyota Camary Hybrid. Toyota also makes a hybrid of their Avalon if you need more space than a Camary.

It is easily the best car I have ever driven. Not sure where the reliability comment came from but really not sure that is accurate.

They are relatively expensive though, so you would have to compare it to a comparably priced sedan (bmw, Audi, Mercedes, etc.). If you charge at your house you literally never have to worry about going to a gas station. If we are going on 3+ hour trips we take my wifes SUV. I have done the Model 3 a couple times on longer drives and it isn't horrible you just have to plan.

It drives better than anything else in the price range though and frankly is awesome. If you are planning to use it on very long driving vacations multiple times a year may not fit your life style, but short of that its fantastic.

You're spending $50 a month on electricity(more if you jump a tier). I spend $50 a month on gas for my BMW and can go anywhere, anytime.

The day you can go into a gas/charging station and charge an electric car quickly will be the day it becomes practical to have one.

As those above stated, its the best car I've ever driven. It outperforms any car twice its price. And "range anxiety" is just not an issue. Charge at home - or at work where its free! - and save hundreds of dollars/month. Do the math, and its probably te best value out there, no contest.

People with combustion engine spend more time at the pump pumping gas than I do supercharging.

Becuase I charge at home and/or at work, in the six months I've owned the car I've supercharged twice for a toal of thirty miutes. Saves alot of time.

do not hesitate. You will never experience a better more satisfying purchase of any product in your life. It will take you about a month max to get used to driving an EV and waiving at Gas Stations. But you need about 43k to buy the entry level Model 3 SR+. I understand that's not for everyone. Unless you commute over 100 each way you'll rarely have to charge outside your garage. If you can't have a home charger a Tesla is not for you.

By the way let's do some math if you're paying $50 a month for BMW gas in LA you're driving about 500 miles a month. It will cost you less than $20 in electricity to charge 500 miles on a Tesla Model 3 SR+. There is no oil, no transmission fluid, no transmission at all. Ever pay to service a BMW? Good luck especially out of warranty.

5 year cost on a Tesla Model 3 SR+ vs a BMW 330i is 31K for the Tesla vs 47K for the BMW factoring in blue book value and 10K miles driven per year. Google for yourself. It's pretty eye opening.


Tesla Model 3 vs. BMW 3 Series - ( New Window )

I jump a tier and I'm F'ed. Especially in summer.

Also, catch the insurance rates for a Tesla?

Ouch.

I checked and it would be about double.

No thanks, I'll just jump into my BMW and head to Vegas without a worry about recharging.

Written by a Tesla fan boy.

And love it. First it’s an impressive machine, thought through carefully, not just adapted.. Second, since it is mostly controlled by software, it updates periodically so it’s constantly improving. Maintenance costs are very low - all electrics mean no oil changes, no gas stations. The safety of them is great, it’s monitoring things around you, watching stop signs, red lights, speed limits, pedestrians, etc. (We didn’t get full autopilot. But in ours it has a 2nd level of cruise control where it will hold the lane and adjust to your preferred following distance, you just need to have a hand on the wheel, and it asks you to move it a bit every so often to show you’re paying attention. This mode was great for traffic and highway.)

As for range, 90% of your driving is probably easily within range unless you have a truly terrible friggin commute. We drove from VA to VT in it. All we did was find a spot for lunch near a charger. Whole thing charges on a supercharger in 40 min or so. It tells you where superchargers are, maps to them, and tells you how much battery you’ll have when you get there. We had lunch and were good to go.

Did we buy the supercharger for the house? Nope. We decided to see how it does, and since my wife’s commute is pretty short, we just plug it in each night to regular 110 outlet and been fine.

An all electric is cool in other ways. It’s basically a big battery. You can sit in it and listen to the radio (or watch You Tube, or whatever) and not worry about draining the battery. It’s a mindset change.

Well, I like the red one better.

Anyone who spends 5 minutes googling can find exactly what each car costs over 5 years, what the insurance costs, what the customer satisfaction is etc.

Here's a few more real facts for you:

127,836 Model 3s were delivered between January and November of 2019 in the USA, making it the 9th best-selling passenger car in the market.

That number alone is impressive but when you start comparing it to other car maker’s results, it’s eye-opening; Tesla delivered more Model 3s in 2019 up until November in the States than BMW’s 2-, 3-, 4-, 5-, 6-, 7- and 8-Series models combined, which amount to 116,073 vehicles (these numbers were provided by BMW North America).

Hard to advise without a budget provided, but you get a lot of value/car in the hybrid segment right now.

Unless you're adamant on getting a Tesla as a status symbol, there's practically no reason to get one...yet.

Moreover, the electric game should heat up soon to better define the market so you don't need to start at the price of a BMW, Audi or Merc to get in the door (with a well equipped car, anyways).

My brother has a Tesla 3 and its a nice car - though the paint is very noticeably poor. I'm unsure if its a trend, but I haven't seen a red Tesla 3 that looks like it got a good spray. Blue/Black look fine, but red is consistently inconsistent.

That said, its a heavy car. A total monster in a straight away, but a land barge in corners. Bulletproof otherwise, just not very fun throwing it around in corners (though I assume you may adjust to the center of gravity being much lower and distributing the weight evenly). Likely not an issue for your wife, though.

What are the options and costs to charge an electric car in NYC?

https://techcrunch.com/2019/02/21/tesla-model-3-loses-consumer-reports-recommendation-over-reliability-problems/

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Consumer Reports, which has a complicated relationship with Tesla, says it can no longer recommend the Model 3 because issues with the paint, trim and body hardware raises reliability questions. CR members reported the results in an annual reliability survey that includes data on about 470,000 vehicles. ... The question of reliability has persisted for all of Tesla’s vehicles. CR doesn’t recommend the Model X or Model S either due to reliability issues. The Tesla Model X was included in CR’s top 10 least reliable vehicles list for 2019.

Here's Car and Driver's recent 10,000 mile update on their Model 3.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a30209598/2019-tesla-model-3-reliability-maintenance/

Their vehicle suffered a short in the rear inverter and had to have its entire rear motor assembly replaced.

Honestly, anyone thinking about buying a Model 3 should read that whole article. Is this the kind of nonsense you want to put up with with a car that costs north of $40,000?

In comment 14923761 Gary from The East End said:

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https://techcrunch.com/2019/02/21/tesla-model-3-loses-consumer-reports-recommendation-over-reliability-problems/ Quote: Consumer Reports, which has a complicated relationship with Tesla, says it can no longer recommend the Model 3 because issues with the paint, trim and body hardware raises reliability questions. CR members reported the results in an annual reliability survey that includes data on about 470,000 vehicles. ... The question of reliability has persisted for all of Tesla’s vehicles. CR doesn’t recommend the Model X or Model S either due to reliability issues. The Tesla Model X was included in CR’s top 10 least reliable vehicles list for 2019. Here's Car and Driver's recent 10,000 mile update on their Model 3. https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a30209598/2019-tesla-model-3-reliability-maintenance/ Their vehicle suffered a short in the rear inverter and had to have its entire rear motor assembly replaced. Honestly, anyone thinking about buying a Model 3 should read that whole article. Is this the kind of nonsense you want to put up with with a car that costs north of $40,000?

Nope.

It's a plug-in with 20-25 miles of range as an electric car and gets about 45-50 mpg as a hybrid. I needed to be able to take long trips and the infrastructure is really only there for Teslas, but I had concerns about price & somewhat about quality.

I strongly considered the Ionique plug-in, but just liked the Prius a bit better - especially because I had a regular Prius for the previous 7-8 years, so it felt familiar.

In comment 14923852 Stan in LA said:

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In comment 14923761 Gary from The East End said: Quote: https://techcrunch.com/2019/02/21/tesla-model-3-loses-consumer-reports-recommendation-over-reliability-problems/ Quote: Consumer Reports, which has a complicated relationship with Tesla, says it can no longer recommend the Model 3 because issues with the paint, trim and body hardware raises reliability questions. CR members reported the results in an annual reliability survey that includes data on about 470,000 vehicles. ... The question of reliability has persisted for all of Tesla’s vehicles. CR doesn’t recommend the Model X or Model S either due to reliability issues. The Tesla Model X was included in CR’s top 10 least reliable vehicles list for 2019. Here's Car and Driver's recent 10,000 mile update on their Model 3. https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a30209598/2019-tesla-model-3-reliability-maintenance/ Their vehicle suffered a short in the rear inverter and had to have its entire rear motor assembly replaced. Honestly, anyone thinking about buying a Model 3 should read that whole article. Is this the kind of nonsense you want to put up with with a car that costs north of $40,000? Nope.

Lol. Those of us who have one, knoW it when we say it: Its an awesome fucking car. Get over it.

do I read something here that changes my mind about anything. But I think I need to rethink this thread. Most of you should not be considering an EV especially a Tesla.

The car isn't for everyone. You need some sense of adventure and willingness to be part of a big grand experiment. If you're even the least bit afraid of new things and to learn new things don't do it.

Interestingly though Tesla has by far the highest satisfaction among owners for the past several years way ahead of cars similarly sticker priced. Easy to google to check that out.

The Wall Street Journal just reviewed the Model Y, not exactly a bastion of cutting edge new thinking. I won't link it because it's behind a pay wall but I'll link an article about it.

Enjoy.

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Dan Neil, who writes about cars for the Wall Street Journal, has evolved from a Tesla skeptic to a zealous convert. In his new review of Model Y, he reaches new heights of colorful commendation, and just manages to restrain himself from losing control and proclaiming Tesla’s new offering “the best car in the world.” Neil gives us reasons why such a pronouncement would be reasonable: Model Y is “the most technically advanced electric automobile made,” and electric cars are “functionally superior to those powered by internal combustion.” Tesla’s latest EV “[beats] the competition on core technology like a drum,” outclassing gas-powered offerings in the same segment, such as the Mercedes-Benz GLC 300, Range Rover Evoque, Jaguar F-Pace, and Porsche Macan. The Model Y’s “fierce, velvety acceleration, deep-pile powertrain isolation [and] absence of friction and stiction” put it in a different class from “the current generation of stammering gassers.” So, why can’t Neil bring himself to go all the way, and declare Model Y the GOAT? He lists a few drawbacks: it “isn’t exactly lovely,” and some buyers will find the minimalist aesthetic of Tesla’s interior “severe.” Not everyone digs the fact that almost all of the controls have to be accessed via the touchscreen. (In fact, this is becoming a trend for other automakers too, and one that some car connoisseurs abhor.)

Wall Street Journal: Tesla Model Y Offers “Fierce, Velvety” Driving Characteristics - ( New Window )

I have never driven a better or more convenient car than my model 3. If you in habit of long weekend trips then it likely doesn’t. I understand some people seem to have an inherent bias against it for some reason but I am honestly not sure why. Knock on wood I have t had any mechanical issues which is more than I could say about the Audi’s and other German cars I have owned. I did also love my Acura but they don’t have a hybrid or electric model.

Once again you aren’t really buying a Tesla to save money you are buying because it’s awesome and easy.

uniqueness so that I really really like it, even if I don't? Is there a psychology to it at all?

.

So why don't BMW, Mercedes, Jag etc have the same satisfaction numbers?

I know why when it comes to BMW. I've owned about a dozen of them since 1990.

One of the big reasons for me no dealership bulls**t with Tesla.

No salesman to deal with, no price haggling, no finance department, even when you pay cash you still have to deal with those crooks and assholes to get your delivery. Which takes hours. No service managers, no service surveys that they badger you to fill out and god forbid you don't give them 10 stars your next service appointment is hell. None of the sleazy car sales and service dealership process at all.

I really loved some of my BMWs a 95 M3 a 2011 335i a 98 540i. But BMW has lost their way. Their sales and brand loyalty reflect that.

It took 30 minutes to sign the paperwork at the Tesla delivery center and drive away. I've had the car about 16 months. My only service was to rotate the tires. The Tesla mobile service team came to my house and did it on my driveway.

I've got a friend who has a 2015 Model S he's never had to bring the car in for service. Anything he ever needed done the mobile team did on his driveway. He also owns quite a bit of the stock at $25. He was on board early. I wasn't that smart.