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Why the Giants will be a dumpster fire

Vin_Cuccs : 6/23/2020 8:51 am
As mentioned in a thread below, a Philadelphia beat writer composes a yearly satirical yet realistic look at every NFC East team, specifically focusing on the flaws of the roster and organization.

Link below.
Link - ( New Window )
Also  
Vin_Cuccs : 6/23/2020 8:55 am : link
Be careful if you decide to fire off an angry email in response. After the series is complete, he compiles a list of the angriest/funniest emails he’s received.
it only hurts because its true  
Giantsfan79 : 6/23/2020 8:58 am : link
Considering how awful their offensive line was in 2017, particularly with Ereck Flowers at left tackle, the Giants clearly felt like adding a competent left tackle during the 2018 offseason was worth the price of not having to worry about some RDE wrecking the game from week to week. And so, they made a decent (not great by any stretch) LT in Nate Solder, who was one month away from turning 30 at the time they signed him, the highest-paid offensive lineman in the NFL. The deal? Four years, $62 million.

What a mind-blowingly stupid contract. It was easy to see the Giants weren't going anywhere in 2018, or likely anytime soon. By the time any sort of rebuilding of the roster was to take shape, Solder would be deep into his 30's, and likely in decline.

Solder is now 32 years old, and he stunk 2019. ProFootballFocus had him down for 11 sacks allowed in 2019, third-worst in the league, according to them. Out of curiosity, I watched every Giants sack on the season, and how PFF arrived at only 11 Solder sacks allowed is beyond me. He was partly culpable, by my count, for at least 19 sacks last season, and seven (!) forced fumbles, shown here:

We could debate how many of those sacks should be given to Solder, but he sure as hell should be credited with more than 11.

By the time the Giants will be good enough to compete for a Super Bowl -- which doesn't appear to be anytime soon -- Solder will be long gone. In 2020 though, he'll be the Giants' left tackle at a whopping $19,500,000 on their cap, because it would cost more to cut him than to keep him.

Next offseason, he'll count for $6.5 million in dead money when they release him. What a huge waste of money.
Win More Games...  
Jim in Tampa : 6/23/2020 9:06 am : link
It's the only way to stop the criticism.

We can nit pick the article here and there, but the truth is, most of those issues have been brought up on BBI as well.
You’d have to be a real dumbass to fire off an angry response....  
Crispino : 6/23/2020 9:06 am : link
to what is clearly satirical and over the top.
I laughed at the one about the Cowboys  
Biteymax22 : 6/23/2020 9:10 am : link
and I'll probably laugh at the Redskins one when I see it too, so I can't get mad about the Giants one.

To his point about Joe Judge, I have a very odd confidence he's going to buck the trend of the Belichik coaching tree.

And FWIW, I think Flores did a heck of a job getting 5 wins out of a team with almost 0 talent on it. People were picking them to go 0-16 prior to the season start.
Every year  
JB_in_DC : 6/23/2020 9:13 am : link
I go into it expecting to just laugh off mediocre satire, but every year he manages to piss me off - so I tip my cap, he succeeded again.
Nothing he says is out of bounds or incorrect.  
Vin_Cuccs : 6/23/2020 9:13 am : link
That is for certain.

Unfortunately, this organization has been run poorly for a while now, and that manifests itself with the product on the field. Now, we all hope it turns around, because they have a promising young nucleus of players, but that is far from a sure thing.

When a team loses as many games as this team has over the past five seasons, everyone is open for criticism. I am a Gettleman fan, and I think that he’s made some solid personnel moves, but the same time, he certainly has made his share of mistakes as well.

We all knew that this rebuild was going to be a time consuming challenge. Now, we just hope that it is a successful one.
This is neither satirical or over the top just the truth  
arniefez : 6/23/2020 9:15 am : link
The Giants have become one of the worst franchises in the NFL in recent years, and their badness is becoming a norm

Over the last six seasons, the Giants have lost at least 10 games five times. Over that span, they have compiled a record of 35-61 (0.365), and a point differential of -311. They're 3-9 against the Cowboys, and 1-11 against the Eagles.

That 35-61 overall record is better than the following teams:

Buccaneers: 34-62 (0.354)
Jaguars 32-64 (0.333)
Browns 24-72 (0.250)

That's it. Over the last six years, the Giants have a better record than the Buccaneers, Jaguars, and Browns.
Well - written...  
x meadowlander : 6/23/2020 9:17 am : link
...and frankly, valid and spot on. The Giants suckitude over the last 6 years is real, it's epic, it's a shit sandwich.

I honestly believe PSL's deserve refunds. What a garbage product.

If the Jones fumbling issues aren't addressed, Giants are screwed. Gripes about Solder are spot-on. Slow back 7 on defense, yup.

He didn't even mention that little has been done to address the thin receiving corps.


Yup, until we prove otherwise, can't really argue with much  
mfsd : 6/23/2020 9:17 am : link
and have to give him credit for knowing his target and audience. The "there's no blaming Reuben Randle for the INTs anymore, Giants fans" line is classic
I hate  
JoeyBigBlue : 6/23/2020 9:20 am : link
That most of that was TRUE. Until we start winning, we will be laughing stocks and every move personnel move will be criticized.
Tough...  
Stu11 : 6/23/2020 9:33 am : link
but fair.
It's so easy to do with the Giants.  
mittenedman : 6/23/2020 9:51 am : link
As he mentioned, they STILL have the worst pass rush on paper in the NFL.

Interesting note about the speed of the secondary, I hadn't considered that. They appear to have another collection of Strong Safeties, like they did Collins' rookie year, last year and now again.

Still have JAG's at LB.

This team makes the same mistakes over and over again. Let's hope they just win the Super Bowl anyway.
I wish it wasn't so well written and on point...  
Metnut : 6/23/2020 9:59 am : link
Only way to stop being a joke is to win games.

Still can't believe Gettleman got another year.
Unfortunatley  
computahfolks99 : 6/23/2020 10:07 am : link
this is all correct. I think the fact that they did not give a serious attempt at correcting the pass rush gave away that they have no plans on competing this season. I bet that Gettleman isin't fired after the season as long as they show some improvement, even if they still suck. I don't think he's on as much of a hot seat as has been reported.
How scary was the Solder film ?  
averagejoe : 6/23/2020 10:10 am : link
That was a horror show. Weak, slow, passive...just what everyone wants in a LT. As bad as Flowers for 16M per.Thomas needs to start at LT and Peart cannot be any worse than Solder at RT. Solder needs to get cut. He is a risk to Jones development.
That cartoon,  
lugnut : 6/23/2020 10:10 am : link
or whatever I should call it, of Gettleman throwing money down the toilet is pretty damn funny.
RE: This is neither satirical or over the top just the truth  
jestersdead : 6/23/2020 10:16 am : link
In comment 14923750 arniefez said:
Quote:
The Giants have become one of the worst franchises in the NFL in recent years, and their badness is becoming a norm

Over the last six seasons, the Giants have lost at least 10 games five times. Over that span, they have compiled a record of 35-61 (0.365), and a point differential of -311. They're 3-9 against the Cowboys, and 1-11 against the Eagles.

That 35-61 overall record is better than the following teams:

Buccaneers: 34-62 (0.354)
Jaguars 32-64 (0.333)
Browns 24-72 (0.250)

That's it. Over the last six years, the Giants have a better record than the Buccaneers, Jaguars, and Browns.

That stuck out to me as well. The numbers vs Dallas and Philly are embarrassing. Interesting how the Giants are a dumpster fire but 2 years ago the Jags were on the brink of a Super Bowl....goes to show you how quickly things can change
RE: How scary was the Solder film ?  
LBH15 : 6/23/2020 10:23 am : link
In comment 14923776 averagejoe said:
Quote:
That was a horror show. Weak, slow, passive...just what everyone wants in a LT. As bad as Flowers for 16M per.Thomas needs to start at LT and Peart cannot be any worse than Solder at RT. Solder needs to get cut. He is a risk to Jones development.


Yeah, that film was as bad as I have seen for a LT. I was actually giving him the benefit of the doubt to still be a starter this year and probably at LT. Not sure now.
RE: I wish it wasn't so well written and on point...  
Greg from LI : 6/23/2020 10:25 am : link
In comment 14923772 Metnut said:
Quote:
Only way to stop being a joke is to win games.

Still can't believe Gettleman got another year.



No, no, see, it's still all that dastardly Jerry Reese's fault!
The list of 10 items is basically spot on  
LBH15 : 6/23/2020 10:25 am : link
as to NYG issues, sans Joe Judge who is a TBD.
The central theme  
weeg in the bronx : 6/23/2020 10:32 am : link
Dave Gettleman.
Bah...  
Brown_Hornet : 6/23/2020 10:36 am : link
...10-6 ya pussies.

Until they fix the OL and the pass rush (and WR)  
JonC : 6/23/2020 10:43 am : link
with talent, the losing will continue.
RE: Until they fix the OL and the pass rush (and WR)  
Angel Eyes : 6/23/2020 10:52 am : link
In comment 14923804 JonC said:
Quote:
with talent, the losing will continue.

Agreed.
The Giants are literally  
NoPeanutz : 6/23/2020 11:14 am : link
THE WORST team in the league over the last three years, and except for one aberration, they have sucked for nearly a decade. There is very little negative that you could write about the Giants on the field over the last several years that could be refuted out of hand. Only the Redskins should fear this team, based on past performance.
As a poster above said, until they win more games...
Even though satirical  
lax counsel : 6/23/2020 11:29 am : link
This is nearly spot on. The most poignant aspect of this article is point 10, which unfortunately may hold this franchise back for a long time to come.

That being said, the one hope is DJ. If he can clean up his pocket presence and stop putting the ball on the ground, he has elite potential and could become the best qb in the division as soon as this year.

One of my good friends is an Eagles fan. The final game, where DJ showed awesome pocket presence, eluded rush, and fired a perfect pass downfield to tie the game collectively scared the sh*t of this fan and his cohorts - as he put it. They just hadn't seen a Giant qb do it with that precision in a long time.

Again, big if - but worth dreaming about. Until then, this organization is a dumpster fire of the highest order.
While the article is annoying  
eric2425ny : 6/23/2020 11:35 am : link
There’s a lot of truth to it as well. We have been awful the last few years. I have been a patient Gettleman supporter thus far aside from some of his dumb lower tier FA moves.

However, that will change if they don’t start improving this year. I know they have a second year QB, new coach, etc. Unless we have major injuries I would like to see at least 6 or 7 wins and some sign of life from the team in general. Another 4 wins or less season would be absolutely awful.
I was expecting to laugh...  
trueblueinpw : 6/23/2020 12:35 pm : link
I thought this was that annual thing where they lampoon every team in the NFL with funny and kind of true things.

But this was just a very well reasoned presentation of the many facts that have made the Giants one of the worst franchises in the NFL. I agree with pretty much everything written except think the writer is a little tough on Judge not saying players names. I like the Judge so far, think he’s done everything right. But, yeah, the Belichick tree is pretty bare and he’s young and inexperienced AF and covid makes this all a lot harder. Still, now is the time to be hopeful of the Judge. Gonna take time though.

Anyway, the sad truth is that the Giants have been inarguably pathetic and worse than only one or two other teams. We fucking suck until we don’t.
RE: RE: How scary was the Solder film ?  
Tony in Tampa : 6/23/2020 12:40 pm : link
In comment 14923785 LBH15 said:
Quote:
In comment 14923776 averagejoe said:


Quote:


That was a horror show. Weak, slow, passive...just what everyone wants in a LT. As bad as Flowers for 16M per.Thomas needs to start at LT and Peart cannot be any worse than Solder at RT. Solder needs to get cut. He is a risk to Jones development.



Yeah, that film was as bad as I have seen for a LT. I was actually giving him the benefit of the doubt to still be a starter this year and probably at LT. Not sure now.

Watching the Solder tape you keep waiting for it to end, like a bad horror movie. But it keeps going and going. I had to check the scroll at the bottom. 2:19 Lol
RE: RE: RE: How scary was the Solder film ?  
eric2425ny : 6/23/2020 12:54 pm : link
In comment 14923866 Tony in Tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 14923785 LBH15 said:


Quote:


In comment 14923776 averagejoe said:


Quote:


That was a horror show. Weak, slow, passive...just what everyone wants in a LT. As bad as Flowers for 16M per.Thomas needs to start at LT and Peart cannot be any worse than Solder at RT. Solder needs to get cut. He is a risk to Jones development.



Yeah, that film was as bad as I have seen for a LT. I was actually giving him the benefit of the doubt to still be a starter this year and probably at LT. Not sure now.


Watching the Solder tape you keep waiting for it to end, like a bad horror movie. But it keeps going and going. I had to check the scroll at the bottom. 2:19 Lol


If this was a regular corona-free offseason, I wonder if it would have been realistic that Solder got cut if Thomas and Peart played well in preseason? Or if Cam Fleming looked solid for that matter.
Probably the easiest article hs writes all  
St. Jimmy : 6/23/2020 12:55 pm : link
year. It writes itself, practically.
I don't consider our defensive backfield slow at all  
PatersonPlank : 6/23/2020 1:03 pm : link
McKinney is much faster than the time he ran (everyone acknowledges that), and 4.5 is fine for a DB:
CB Deandre Baker 4.52
CB James Bradberry 4.50
Slot CB (?) Julian Love 4.54
S Jabrill Peppers 4.46
Solder was paid his roster bonus  
JonC : 6/23/2020 1:05 pm : link
He's a sunk cost for 2020.
Yep, but at least Gettleman listened to BBI  
LBH15 : 6/23/2020 1:12 pm : link
and got some new Tackles for the future in the draft.
RE: Solder was paid his roster bonus  
eric2425ny : 6/23/2020 1:39 pm : link
In comment 14923893 JonC said:
Quote:
He's a sunk cost for 2020.


Thanks Jon, I forgot about that. No way they cut him then.
RE: I don't consider our defensive backfield slow at all  
eric2425ny : 6/23/2020 1:41 pm : link
In comment 14923891 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
McKinney is much faster than the time he ran (everyone acknowledges that), and 4.5 is fine for a DB:
CB Deandre Baker 4.52
CB James Bradberry 4.50
Slot CB (?) Julian Love 4.54
S Jabrill Peppers 4.46


I did think this was a strange section of the article. 40 times are really overrated anyway, especially when you are talking about DB’s. It’s more quickness as they have to constantly adjust to the WR’s movements.
Nah, not dumpster fire  
Spider43 : 6/23/2020 1:43 pm : link
But another mediocre year, at best. Probably not enough to get Getts fired, even if it should. Stuck in no-man's land again, unless ownership makes the right move.
I wonder what the Redskins’ one will be on  
Angel Eyes : 6/23/2020 1:45 pm : link
.
RE: Nah, not dumpster fire  
LBH15 : 6/23/2020 2:26 pm : link
In comment 14923920 Spider43 said:
Quote:
But another mediocre year, at best. Probably not enough to get Getts fired, even if it should. Stuck in no-man's land again, unless ownership makes the right move.


Another mediocre year?

The owners would do cartwheels for a mediocre year.
the Giants also have the WORST record  
Leg of Theismann : 6/23/2020 2:56 pm : link
over the last THREE years. So forget about the last 6 years, in most recent memory we are the worst team in the NFL.
Satire is supposed to exaggerate to make a point  
mikeinbloomfield : 6/23/2020 3:08 pm : link
This is just a straight up assessment of our team, and unfortunately, our GM. It's only funny because some of the things this team does are so stupid, you have to laugh.


It would be OK if the Giants were just bad, the NFL is set up so that teams that know how to get better can get better fast. We are not one of those teams.

Only ray of light:  
George : 6/23/2020 3:21 pm : link
that article chronicles the last few years of ineptitude. It can only get better from here, am I right am I right am I right?

Right?

Sigh.
RE: You’d have to be a real dumbass to fire off an angry response....  
GiantsFan84 : 6/23/2020 7:27 pm : link
In comment 14923743 Crispino said:
Quote:
to what is clearly satirical and over the top.


Umm I hope there is sarcasm in your response because I think everything in that article is spot on
Not a great year  
RetroJint : 6/23/2020 9:04 pm : link
to be breaking in a first-time HC & his new staff . Maybe they might get set back a year . That would guarantee Gettleman’s banishment . Be a good thing . But I think they’re going to surprise . On Defense , they had absolute morons coaching them . The pass rush could conceivably get better with more sound schemes and game -planning .

I had very little interest in them the last couple seasons. I put my time in watching the games with no passion or optimism . I’m over that . Looking forward to a new era of Giants football . Hope I’m around long enough to see ascend to the upper echelon .
Holy shit  
JesseS : 6/24/2020 12:45 pm : link
Solder is even worse than I thought.
RE: This is neither satirical or over the top just the truth  
Crispino : 6/24/2020 3:46 pm : link
In comment 14923750 arniefez said:
Quote:
The Giants have become one of the worst franchises in the NFL in recent years, and their badness is becoming a norm

Over the last six seasons, the Giants have lost at least 10 games five times. Over that span, they have compiled a record of 35-61 (0.365), and a point differential of -311. They're 3-9 against the Cowboys, and 1-11 against the Eagles.

That 35-61 overall record is better than the following teams:

Buccaneers: 34-62 (0.354)
Jaguars 32-64 (0.333)
Browns 24-72 (0.250)

That's it. Over the last six years, the Giants have a better record than the Buccaneers, Jaguars, and Browns.


I didn’t say there wasn’t truth in it. We all know this guy does this every year . It’s meant to be entertaining and funny and over the top in its tone. It’s meant to be in your face. And he does it for the better teams too. So if you respond angrily, you’re a dumbass.
Lots of valid points  
SGMen : 6/28/2020 2:23 pm : link
I thought this article was pretty "on the spot" with the mistakes the Giants have made, particularly with the following players and moves:

1. Nate Solder contract was too much for an "average" LT. We weren't going anywhere in 2018 and DG didn't assess the talent on this team.
2. Trades for Ogletree and L. Williams didn't work out (bad timing with Williams...) and the jury is out on Baker.
3. UFA signings were poor, especially FS Bethea but read the article for the full list.
4. Coaching was bad under Shurmur. No question in my mind.

If we had a good draft this year we can turn it around. But I believe Thomas, Peat and Lemieux all need to work out and improve the line not just maintain a status quo. This offense may click really well in 2021 if the OL is fixed. It isn't fixed yet and its hard to say if it will be much better this year.

Finally,?Jones fumbling is an issue but a lot of it was just unreal "in your face" pressure. I think Jones is a very good short thrower to we may see more quick hit passes in this offense. And more running to open things up for play action.

Thoughts?
RE: Probably the easiest article hs writes all  
djm : 6/28/2020 2:27 pm : link
In comment 14923879 St. Jimmy said:
Quote:
year. It writes itself, practically.


Gotta turn these 1st,2nd and 3rd year kids into NFL pros that can help this team win games. This franchise can either stay in this crappy wilderness or start winning.
RE: RE: Probably the easiest article hs writes all  
SGMen : 6/28/2020 2:32 pm : link
In comment 14925848 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 14923879 St. Jimmy said:


Quote:


year. It writes itself, practically.



Gotta turn these 1st,2nd and 3rd year kids into NFL pros that can help this team win games. This franchise can either stay in this crappy wilderness or start winning.
I thought we drafted well last year as even Baker turned the corner it seemed the last 1/3 of the season.

I honestly believe if Thomas, Peart and Lemiux are all solid starters next year we will be on our way.
The lack of pass rush is a problem so lets hope someone like Ximines steps up. Maybe Certer too.
Without question, rebuilding through the draft is the key and if this draft class struggles I think DG is gone. And by struggles I mean to the point where we aren't sure of players abilities enough.
RE: Not a great year  
SGMen : 6/28/2020 2:38 pm : link
In comment 14924107 RetroJint said:
Quote:
to be breaking in a first-time HC & his new staff . Maybe they might get set back a year . That would guarantee Gettleman’s banishment . Be a good thing . But I think they’re going to surprise . On Defense , they had absolute morons coaching them . The pass rush could conceivably get better with more sound schemes and game -planning .

I had very little interest in them the last couple seasons. I put my time in watching the games with no passion or optimism . I’m over that . Looking forward to a new era of Giants football . Hope I’m around long enough to see ascend to the upper echelon .
I agree our coaching staffs last year were, well, morons indeed. This team looked over-matched at times.

Our defense will improve if the DL is able to stuff the run at an upper echelon level and allow our average linebackers to flow to the ball. As for pass defense, as long as Baker is back with a clean head I think we'll be improved.
Health is always the key. The 1st, 2nd and 3rd year guys need to step up and perform or its more of the same so lets hope for the best.
I still think we start 0-3 as we face teams with returning systems and well I expect a lot of breakdowns early due to new system and lack of full pre-season. Judge didn't get an easy stat.
RE: Yup, until we prove otherwise, can't really argue with much  
SGMen : 6/28/2020 2:41 pm : link
In comment 14923753 mfsd said:
Quote:
and have to give him credit for knowing his target and audience. The "there's no blaming Reuben Randle for the INTs anymore, Giants fans" line is classic
Classic indeed. You have to have 11 guys on the same page else you make mistakes. We had way too many breakdowns, especially on the OL and with DB's to be consistent.
RE: RE: I don't consider our defensive backfield slow at all  
SGMen : 6/28/2020 3:17 pm : link
In comment 14923919 eric2425ny said:
Quote:
In comment 14923891 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


McKinney is much faster than the time he ran (everyone acknowledges that), and 4.5 is fine for a DB:
CB Deandre Baker 4.52
CB James Bradberry 4.50
Slot CB (?) Julian Love 4.54
S Jabrill Peppers 4.46



I did think this was a strange section of the article. 40 times are really overrated anyway, especially when you are talking about DB’s. It’s more quickness as they have to constantly adjust to the WR’s movements.
Yeah, I mean 4.63 is LB time and McKinney does seem faster than that on film. We will see in camp and definitely during the season.
I would not be shocked if the Giants played him even if Love is "NFL ready" and such. That assumes he shows enough to make you believe.
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