What makes a Hall of Famer?

at least 80% yes votes from the selection board.

then you're missing the point.

Eli should be judged for the HOF in the era he played in and versus his peers.

the latter of which being the most subjective but arguably the most important.

I did.

There is going to be so much cloakroom politics over his induction it will rival the US Congress. The real question is does he get in on a 1st time ballot, or does he need 2-3 cycles before he is elected.

That’s what makes a Hall of Famer.

the dominant or one of the most very dominant players at your position during your career. That is why I don’t think Eli should be in HOF. Same argument against Phil Simms in the early days of BBI when that was an issue.

I realize others value longevity and outstanding accomplishments in certain years.

We can still be friends despite other differences.

and 70s teams were allowed to play defense. Hence, the "lousy" td-int ratios.

I don't care what anybody says, not winning a Super Bowl is not the reason to hold a player out of the HOF. If the Bears didn't win it in '85 would you have not put Walter Payton in?

In comment 14924042 Gman11 said:

Quote:

and 70s teams were allowed to play defense. Hence, the "lousy" td-int ratios. I don't care what anybody says, not winning a Super Bowl is not the reason to hold a player out of the HOF. If the Bears didn't win it in '85 would you have not put Walter Payton in?

Yes.

is Walter Payton was not a great player and that not winning a Super Bowl had nothing to do with any of the other 45 guys on the team. Is that it?

I misinterpreted the question.

In comment 14923984 Big Al said:

Quote:

the dominant or one of the most very dominant players at your position during your career. That is why I don’t think Eli should be in HOF. Same argument against Phil Simms in the early days of BBI when that was an issue. I realize others value longevity and outstanding accomplishments in certain years.

By this measure, Ben and Rivers also don't make the cut I would assume?

For me the HOF is only for the truly great. Players that are at the very top of the position for the duration of their career. Iconic players.

If one year there was no one inducted, that would be ok. The less players in the hall, the greater it is.

Putting in players that are average, but had long careers and put up numbers should not be in. There was this discussion on another board about Frank Gore. I was on the side that he is not a HOFer.

I also don't believe that championships put you in either. Case in point Robert Horry. He has more titles than 90% of all time great players.

On this board the discussion is about Manning. I don't think he's a HOFer. During his playing time the prominent players considered the very best at the position were Peyton, Brady, Brees, and Rodgers. That's it. No one else gets in.

I know this isn't the way it's done and I feel it's gotten watered down as time goes by, and this is all sports HOF. The participation trophy thinking rules. I hate it.

In comment 14924170 fanatic II said:

Quote:

For me the HOF is only for the truly great. Players that are at the very top of the position for the duration of their career. Iconic players. If one year there was no one inducted, that would be ok. The less players in the hall, the greater it is. Putting in players that are average, but had long careers and put up numbers should not be in. There was this discussion on another board about Frank Gore. I was on the side that he is not a HOFer. I also don't believe that championships put you in either. Case in point Robert Horry. He has more titles than 90% of all time great players. On this board the discussion is about Manning. I don't think he's a HOFer. During his playing time the prominent players considered the very best at the position were Peyton, Brady, Brees, and Rodgers. That's it. No one else gets in. I know this isn't the way it's done and I feel it's gotten watered down as time goes by, and this is all sports HOF. The participation trophy thinking rules. I hate it.

I think there is a difference between Manning and Robert Horry. Not only did Eli Manning take two teams not expected to be in the Super Bowl to victory, he did it by winning 5/6 games on the road, 2/2 on neutral fields, toppled a previously undefeated team, and stepped up when his team needed it the most. In those 8 games the Giants were underdogs in at least 7 (don’t recall Atlanta Falcons game who was the favorite). This isn’t Ben Roethlisberger, who struggled while his team won 2 Super Bowls, or any number of marginal starters on the 1985 Bears D or 1970’s Steelers who are in the HOF solely due to their victories.

In comment 14924186 Mike in NY said:

Quote:

In comment 14924170 fanatic II said: Quote: For me the HOF is only for the truly great. Players that are at the very top of the position for the duration of their career. Iconic players. If one year there was no one inducted, that would be ok. The less players in the hall, the greater it is. Putting in players that are average, but had long careers and put up numbers should not be in. There was this discussion on another board about Frank Gore. I was on the side that he is not a HOFer. I also don't believe that championships put you in either. Case in point Robert Horry. He has more titles than 90% of all time great players. On this board the discussion is about Manning. I don't think he's a HOFer. During his playing time the prominent players considered the very best at the position were Peyton, Brady, Brees, and Rodgers. That's it. No one else gets in. I know this isn't the way it's done and I feel it's gotten watered down as time goes by, and this is all sports HOF. The participation trophy thinking rules. I hate it. I think there is a difference between Manning and Robert Horry. Not only did Eli Manning take two teams not expected to be in the Super Bowl to victory, he did it by winning 5/6 games on the road, 2/2 on neutral fields, toppled a previously undefeated team, and stepped up when his team needed it the most. In those 8 games the Giants were underdogs in at least 7 (don’t recall Atlanta Falcons game who was the favorite). This isn’t Ben Roethlisberger, who struggled while his team won 2 Super Bowls, or any number of marginal starters on the 1985 Bears D or 1970’s Steelers who are in the HOF solely due to their victories.

This is a great post. Nothing unusual for you..:)

2 x Superbowl Champ (only 12 Quarterbacks in history have two or more)
2 x Superbowl MYP (only 5 players in history have two or more)
7th all time in passing yards
7th all time in passing TD's
7th all time in completions
3rd all time in consecutive games started
4th Quarter TD record all time (2011, 14, previously held in a tie by Johnny Unitas and Peyton Manning with 13).
13th all time 4th quarter comebacks

League Awards:

Walter Peyton Man of the Year
Bart Starr Award
Professional Writers Good Guy Award

Speaking of 2011, let's talk about what MVP really means. Most valuable player to a team. The Giants were 9-7 and barely got into the playoffs as a wildcard. Manning led an NFL record 7 4th quarter comebacks to get there. One less and we don't make the playoffs or win the Superbowl.

In the playoffs, he/they beat the #1 and #2 seed NFC opponents, and the #1 AFC seed twice. Look at the records of those teams:

2007:
Dallas 13-3
Green Bay 14-3
New England 18-0

2011:
Green Bay 15-1
San Fran 14-3
New England 15-3

All of those games on the road.

Storylines:

-Member of one of the greatest QB draft classes of all time (all three guys from '83 are in).
-He beat Favre in ice cold temps in Green Bay.
-He beat the league MVP Brady, 18-0 as one of the biggest underdogs in SB history (12 point dogs).
-He beat league MVP Aaron Rodgers, 15-1, on the road in Green Bay (second win in Lambeau, both against HOF QB's on the other side).
-He dropped back to pass 56 times in a monsoon against a ferocious San Fran defense who sacked him what? 6 times? 8 times? (this one if for those that say the NFL doesn't play defense anymore)
-In 2007, they were 11-0 on the road? Won every game on the road in the playoffs.
-In BOTH Superbowls, he took the field with two minutes remaining needing a TD to win. Basically TD or bust. He delivered. Not to mention the two signature plays in both Superbowls, which both came on the final drive for the offense where they HAD to score a TD in the final two minutes. Manning to Tyree will be playing in a loop 50 years from now next to the immaculate reception. It's arguably the greatest play in Superbowl history.

His family is NFL royalty. Can you tell the story of the NFL without the Manning family? Brothers won back to back Superbowls and Superbowl MVP's. Will that ever happen in the league again?

Now you look at all that, and tell me how that is not a HOF career.

In comment 14924236 Britt in VA said:

Quote:

2 x Superbowl Champ (only 12 Quarterbacks in history have two or more) 2 x Superbowl MYP (only 5 players in history have two or more) 7th all time in passing yards 7th all time in passing TD's 7th all time in completions 3rd all time in consecutive games started 4th Quarter TD record all time (2011, 14, previously held in a tie by Johnny Unitas and Peyton Manning with 13). 13th all time 4th quarter comebacks League Awards: Walter Peyton Man of the Year Bart Starr Award Professional Writers Good Guy Award Speaking of 2011, let's talk about what MVP really means. Most valuable player to a team. The Giants were 9-7 and barely got into the playoffs as a wildcard. Manning led an NFL record 7 4th quarter comebacks to get there. One less and we don't make the playoffs or win the Superbowl. In the playoffs, he/they beat the #1 and #2 seed NFC opponents, and the #1 AFC seed twice. Look at the records of those teams: 2007: Dallas 13-3 Green Bay 14-3 New England 18-0 2011: Green Bay 15-1 San Fran 14-3 New England 15-3 All of those games on the road. Storylines: -Member of one of the greatest QB draft classes of all time (all three guys from '83 are in). -He beat Favre in ice cold temps in Green Bay. -He beat the league MVP Brady, 18-0 as one of the biggest underdogs in SB history (12 point dogs). -He beat league MVP Aaron Rodgers, 15-1, on the road in Green Bay (second win in Lambeau, both against HOF QB's on the other side). -He dropped back to pass 56 times in a monsoon against a ferocious San Fran defense who sacked him what? 6 times? 8 times? (this one if for those that say the NFL doesn't play defense anymore) -In 2007, they were 11-0 on the road? Won every game on the road in the playoffs. -In BOTH Superbowls, he took the field with two minutes remaining needing a TD to win. Basically TD or bust. He delivered. Not to mention the two signature plays in both Superbowls, which both came on the final drive for the offense where they HAD to score a TD in the final two minutes. Manning to Tyree will be playing in a loop 50 years from now next to the immaculate reception. It's arguably the greatest play in Superbowl history. His family is NFL royalty. Can you tell the story of the NFL without the Manning family? Brothers won back to back Superbowls and Superbowl MVP's. Will that ever happen in the league again? Now you look at all that, and tell me how that is not a HOF career.

Quote:

7th all time in passing yards 7th all time in passing TD's 7th all time in completions 3rd all time in consecutive games started 4th Quarter TD record all time (2011, 14, previously held in a tie by Johnny Unitas and Peyton Manning with 13). 13th all time 4th quarter comebacks

But, but, he’s an accumulator..:)

he was in his damn prime entering 2012, and the team around him was terrible and has remained that way until this day.

and then showed up afterwards to answer the questions. Always took the blame, never pointed the finger. Sometimes even in empty rooms. Every week.

he's the greatest Giants quarterback, arguably the greatest Giants player, of all time. That level of play, for this franchise, deserves to be representing this franchise in the HOF.

is made up of 3 components.

1. Rings
2. Stats
3. Accolades

if you don't have 1 of the 3 the other 2 better be very compelling to outweigh the lack of 1 (like a Marino or Barry Sanders).

Stats is the least important of the 3 because they lack context and are the only one of the three that will diminish over time (top 10 in stats today, may not be top 10 in stats in 5 years) and they lend themselves to the "accumulator" (like a Testaverde for example).

But stats are needed because they signify longevity. Many players were great for short periods of time, and that may not be enough to mean HOF.

Anyway, that's my opinion.

If this is really about Eli, then I think he's got a strong case, but the knock on him will always be the lack of being the best QB in the regular season, no one ever really went in to a season and pegged the Giants as favorites (because of Eli). 2008 might be the closest. But his contemporaries - Brady, Ben, Brees, Rodgers, Favre, etc. were viewed that way. I'll take the rings over the reputation, but Eli wasn't often great in the regular season and his detractors will seize on that (and the W/L and interceptions).

I think Eli gets in, but not immediately.

Quote:

But stats are needed because they signify longevity. Many players were great for short periods of time, and that may not be enough to mean HOF.

Bavaro was the best ALL-AROUND TE I have ever seen. Too bad he doesn’t have the years to qualify

In comment 14924245 Big Blue '56 said:

Quote:

Quote: But stats are needed because they signify longevity. Many players were great for short periods of time, and that may not be enough to mean HOF. Bavaro was the best ALL-AROUND TE I have ever seen. Too bad he doesn’t have the years to qualify

Bavaro is definitely one of the players who I had in mind and stuck out to me as "needed more time", i'd vote him in today based on his resume - we watched him every game, but most people with a vote won't.

Tiki is another one. Without a ring I think he needed another year or two like his last one and he would have been in without a doubt.

on the final drive to win. The score was 17-15 and a field goal would have ended it, which is why the Patriots let Bradshaw score.

With that Eli got off easy and doesn’t deserve the HoF.

and the player consistently rises to the occasion.

Rather than fumbling the placekick hold.

In comment 14923984 Big Al said:

Quote:

the dominant or one of the most very dominant players at your position during your career. That is why I don’t think Eli should be in HOF. Same argument against Phil Simms in the early days of BBI when that was an issue. I realize others value longevity and outstanding accomplishments in certain years.

In 2011 Eli was the best QB in football, or at least one of the top 2 with an otherworldly regular season performance from Aaron Rogers.

In the playoffs, Eli defeated and outplayed Rogers.

He survived the 49ers in bad weather in SF.

He then beat Brady's Patriots with one of the best high pressure throws in the history of the league to Manningham.

It's called the Hall of FAME, not the Hall of Greatest Players.

Eli should get in.

Eli will most likely make the HOF maybe not a first timer but he will get in. Eli problems are many he played in an era that he was never considered one of the top ten QB’s, his team record sucks, he played in the biggest market in sports and was not an icon, which Eli would show up from week to week?

Plusses he had the family name, he showed up every day for work, he made some throws that are unforgettable, his real claim to fame is two SB, MVP and wins against N.E and the Goat. He is loved or hated in NY and outside not sure why but that’s all folks.

Can you tell the story of football without Eli Manning?

No. He has done too much, won too much, has the legacy, has the production, has the hardware, has the software, and has the connections.

I think retiring when he did will improve his odds of first ballot since he will be eligible before any of his peers, and it will probably be assumed that other QBs will be first ballot behind Eli, and it may be the best time to get him in. If Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Ben retire in short order, that would be a tough group to go in against based purely on the logistics.

Not putting Eli in on the first ballot might make some people feel good in the morning, but would be a mistake.

And was hated there too?

Are you sure you’re talking about the same guy?

I don’t really care about but I would guess that is pretty common on the internet. I don’t really give a damn about any sports hall of fame nor any entertainment awards (where The Wire wins almost nothing). There are 346 in the football Hall of Fame. Too many for me to make it really meaningful. The dividing line of who deserves to get in and who does not is subjective not objective. My dividing line is probably higher than most and would include far less players. How do you make an objective dividing line? Doubt if any consensus can do this but I guess fun for debate but not important to me, although I like to put in my two cents (or lack of sense) sometimes.

that from the start of Eli's career through his second Superbowl run, the NFC East was probably the best division in the league by far. They regularly put three teams into the playoffs during that time span.

In comment 14924365 Britt in VA said:

Quote:

that from the start of Eli's career through his second Superbowl run, the NFC East was probably the best division in the league by far. They regularly put three teams into the playoffs during that time span.

are you sure they regularly put three tams into the playoffs during that time span?

2004: PHI
2005: NYG, WAS
2006: NYG, DAL, PHI
2007: NYG, WAS, DAL
2008: NYG, PHI
2009: DAL, PHI
2010: PHI
2011: NYG

If I did this right they only had 3 teams in twice, and had just one team in 3 times.

Did I miss someone? I looked at it quickly.

Manning in the HOF is sure thing.

He's NFL royalty and part of the best crafted story the NFL has had this century. Zero chance Manning Inc. and the NFL let the opportunity pass by.

Manning was very good over a rarely long period of time and compiled the numbers, the reputation, the super stardom, two championships, and arguably a top 5 moment in the history of the league.

Anyone who thinks he's not getting in is bananas.

In comment 14924365 Britt in VA said:

Quote:

that from the start of Eli's career through his second Superbowl run, the NFC East was probably the best division in the league by far. They regularly put three teams into the playoffs during that time span.

Twice. Not exactly regularly. Nor really needed to support Eli’s cause.

it's only happened 7 times. Only twice by the same division. The NFC East. 2006 and 2007.

The NFC East also put in two playoff teams in:

2005
2006 (3)
2007 (3)
2008
2009
2010

So that's 2 or 3 teams from the NFC East in the playoffs every year from 2005 to 2010. It's okay to cite that his competition to even get into the playoffs every year during that time span was greater, for those that want to cite inconsistency.

Probably one of the main reasons the Giants always seemed so tough and battle tested in the playoffs.

NFC Wild Card 1 SEA* vs NO
NFC Wild Card 2 GB* vs PHI

NFC Divisional 1: GB vs ATL
NFC Divisional 2: CHI vs SEA

* indicated winner

I don't think this line of argument is a strong one, but whatever.

You’re excited about this as we can see, but let’s get facts straight so the HoF voters have everything they need.

a redundant question.

My point remains. The NFC East was by and large the toughest division in football consistently throughout that time period.

The Giants missed the playoffs in 2010 at 10-6.

.

Four division champs and 6 playoff teams, so half of the divisions have 2 playoff teams per year. Getting both Wildcards is uncommon.

The 8-8 Giants were the third team in 2006, on tie breakers.

2007 and 2008 NFCE was fantastic division -- everyone was .500 or above.

In comment 14924392 Britt in VA said:

Quote:

a redundant question. My point remains. The NFC East was by and large the toughest division in football consistently throughout that time period. The Giants missed the playoffs in 2010 at 10-6.

Sorry, didn't mean to be snarky, but this line of thought is one fans use. it's hard to prove.

I think though overall during Eli's career the Giants made the playoffs 6 times and 4 of those times they lost their 1st game. 3 of the losses weren't even really close.

Even if I agree with you, state the facts and lay them out.

I won't get too heated about it either way, i doubt you sway people though.

and the professional manner in which he carried himself in NY during his entire career ought to be enough to make this HoF.

It's not a question of if but when. Like others have said, the Hall of Fame is the story of the NFL. You cannot tell that story without Eli's accomplishments or the Mannings. Outside of a year or two he wasn't the best qb in the NFL or even top 5. But he did enough really good things over an unusually long period of time to get in.

You saw player and league reaction when Eli was benched in 2017 to know he has a substantial amount of goodwill built up around the league and its insiders. Players who retire with great accomplishments also tend to age very well in the minds of the NFL think tank.

In comment 14924170 fanatic II said:

Quote:

If one year there was no one inducted, that would be ok. The less players in the hall, the greater it is. Putting in players that are average, but had long careers and put up numbers should not be in. There was this discussion on another board about Frank Gore. I was on the side that he is not a HOFer.

Gore is an anomaly among RBs as there is essentially no comp for him in the history of the league.

A true stud from 2005-2009, maybe 2010 before the hip injury. 2011-2014 very good RB. Leaves the Niners and is a pretty good RB.

I think people have been seduced with more flashy play from the likes of Tomlinson, Jamaal Charles, Marshawn Lynch, and ignore someone who had been quietly excellent on bad teams and whose highlights were more often producing more 5-20 yard runs as opposed to 50+.

His 2006 campaign was 1,695 yards, 5.4 yards per carry, 72 yard long TD, and 8 TDs. For perspective, Alex Smith threw 16 TDs and 2,890 yards that season.

The biggest issue with 2006? Ladanian Tomlinson had an unworldly 28 TDs to go with 1,815 yards. Larry Johnson had 1789 yards and 17 TDs.

Gore's ypc in 2009 was a strong 4.9 and never returned that high again but in 2014 his 4.3 ypc was higher than his 4.2 in 2007. This more or less shows that shittier teams held him back in his early years. Never had a real OL until Harbaugh, and likely none since.

He's a running back's running back, a true football player. His longevity stats are noteworthy.......9 consecutive seasons at 4.0+ ypc (only Jim Brown and Barry Sanders had more).

The only true sexy stat he had was two 78+ yard TDs in one game, which only Barry Sanders had also accomplished in NFL history. If/when Saquon Barkley does it, he will be #3.

Tomlinson was a better RB in his prime than Gore for sure, I won't challenge it. But after his first 7 years he was no longer a 4.0+ ypc RB save for the 2010 stint with the Jets. Had a 3.3 ypc season on his resume.

Gore meanwhile went his *first* 9.5 seasons at 4.0, then was a high 3 ypc back with other teams even managing 4.6 with the Dolphins two seasons ago.

Lynch only had 9 seasons at 4.0+. Arian Foster 6 seasons.

Jaamal Charles is king of the 5.0+ club, but really only a few seasons qualified because of lack of carries. Only 5 1000 yard seasons. Gore has 9 so far.

Larry Johnson had two 1700+ yard seasons. Amazing, but those were his only 1000 yard seasons.

Ray Rice had 5 good seasons and then fell off the cliff completely and retired. 3.1 ypc won't save you from domestic violence.

Terrell Davis had 4 really good seasons, but that's literally it. His 3 best seasons are better than Gore's and many other RBs 3 best, but that's it. He played 17 games over his final 3 seasons!

Adrian Peterson as amazing as he was, just missed that 9 consecutive 4.0 ypc club, with a 3.6 ypc in 2014. Had some rough years and now bounced back with the Skins.

Steven Jackson is maybe the closest comp - 8 solid 4.0+ ypc seasons, starting around the same time as Gore. Largely unheralded on bad teams but very good.

They've all come and gone bigger and flashier but nobody had the same kind of staying power after 30 years old except maybe AP who trails him by 1100 yards. And this is AP we are talking about.

Gore was a top 5 RB his first several years in the league and then as part of the old man club, essentially the best. Emmitt Smith did much of his career rushing damage pre-30, not much more post 30.

Look, you don't get to be top 3 rushing yards all time without being a HoF worthy player. It's a tough position to succeed in and be healthy long term, let alone amass huge rushing yards.

In comment 14924621 NINEster said:

Quote:

In comment 14924170 fanatic II said: Quote: If one year there was no one inducted, that would be ok. The less players in the hall, the greater it is. Putting in players that are average, but had long careers and put up numbers should not be in. There was this discussion on another board about Frank Gore. I was on the side that he is not a HOFer. Gore is an anomaly among RBs as there is essentially no comp for him in the history of the league. A true stud from 2005-2009, maybe 2010 before the hip injury. 2011-2014 very good RB. Leaves the Niners and is a pretty good RB. I think people have been seduced with more flashy play from the likes of Tomlinson, Jamaal Charles, Marshawn Lynch, and ignore someone who had been quietly excellent on bad teams and whose highlights were more often producing more 5-20 yard runs as opposed to 50+. His 2006 campaign was 1,695 yards, 5.4 yards per carry, 72 yard long TD, and 8 TDs. For perspective, Alex Smith threw 16 TDs and 2,890 yards that season. The biggest issue with 2006? Ladanian Tomlinson had an unworldly 28 TDs to go with 1,815 yards. Larry Johnson had 1789 yards and 17 TDs. Gore's ypc in 2009 was a strong 4.9 and never returned that high again but in 2014 his 4.3 ypc was higher than his 4.2 in 2007. This more or less shows that shittier teams held him back in his early years. Never had a real OL until Harbaugh, and likely none since. He's a running back's running back, a true football player. His longevity stats are noteworthy.......9 consecutive seasons at 4.0+ ypc (only Jim Brown and Barry Sanders had more). The only true sexy stat he had was two 78+ yard TDs in one game, which only Barry Sanders had also accomplished in NFL history. If/when Saquon Barkley does it, he will be #3. Tomlinson was a better RB in his prime than Gore for sure, I won't challenge it. But after his first 7 years he was no longer a 4.0+ ypc RB save for the 2010 stint with the Jets. Had a 3.3 ypc season on his resume. Gore meanwhile went his *first* 9.5 seasons at 4.0, then was a high 3 ypc back with other teams even managing 4.6 with the Dolphins two seasons ago. Lynch only had 9 seasons at 4.0+. Arian Foster 6 seasons. Jaamal Charles is king of the 5.0+ club, but really only a few seasons qualified because of lack of carries. Only 5 1000 yard seasons. Gore has 9 so far. Larry Johnson had two 1700+ yard seasons. Amazing, but those were his only 1000 yard seasons. Ray Rice had 5 good seasons and then fell off the cliff completely and retired. 3.1 ypc won't save you from domestic violence. Terrell Davis had 4 really good seasons, but that's literally it. His 3 best seasons are better than Gore's and many other RBs 3 best, but that's it. He played 17 games over his final 3 seasons! Adrian Peterson as amazing as he was, just missed that 9 consecutive 4.0 ypc club, with a 3.6 ypc in 2014. Had some rough years and now bounced back with the Skins. Steven Jackson is maybe the closest comp - 8 solid 4.0+ ypc seasons, starting around the same time as Gore. Largely unheralded on bad teams but very good. They've all come and gone bigger and flashier but nobody had the same kind of staying power after 30 years old except maybe AP who trails him by 1100 yards. And this is AP we are talking about. Gore was a top 5 RB his first several years in the league and then as part of the old man club, essentially the best. Emmitt Smith did much of his career rushing damage pre-30, not much more post 30. Look, you don't get to be top 3 rushing yards all time without being a HoF worthy player. It's a tough position to succeed in and be healthy long term, let alone amass huge rushing yards.

So, you're saying "Eli is a lock" in a thousand words or less?

And Tiki Barber deserves it as much, if not more, than Al Gore.

It's just me. I know it's not the way it really is. That's why it's a pet peeve.

My criteria a player has to be at the top of his position for the duration or the vast majority of their career. The cream of the crop, the very top, the best of all time.

For me Gore doesn't qualify.

In comment 14924769 fanatic II said:

Quote:

It's just me. I know it's not the way it really is. That's why it's a pet peeve. My criteria a player has to be at the top of his position for the duration or the vast majority of their career. The cream of the crop, the very top, the best of all time. For me Gore doesn't qualify.

No it is not just you.

In comment 14924649 BlueLou'sBack said:

Quote:

In comment 14924621 NINEster said: Quote: In comment 14924170 fanatic II said: Quote: If one year there was no one inducted, that would be ok. The less players in the hall, the greater it is. Putting in players that are average, but had long careers and put up numbers should not be in. There was this discussion on another board about Frank Gore. I was on the side that he is not a HOFer. Gore is an anomaly among RBs as there is essentially no comp for him in the history of the league. A true stud from 2005-2009, maybe 2010 before the hip injury. 2011-2014 very good RB. Leaves the Niners and is a pretty good RB. I think people have been seduced with more flashy play from the likes of Tomlinson, Jamaal Charles, Marshawn Lynch, and ignore someone who had been quietly excellent on bad teams and whose highlights were more often producing more 5-20 yard runs as opposed to 50+. His 2006 campaign was 1,695 yards, 5.4 yards per carry, 72 yard long TD, and 8 TDs. For perspective, Alex Smith threw 16 TDs and 2,890 yards that season. The biggest issue with 2006? Ladanian Tomlinson had an unworldly 28 TDs to go with 1,815 yards. Larry Johnson had 1789 yards and 17 TDs. Gore's ypc in 2009 was a strong 4.9 and never returned that high again but in 2014 his 4.3 ypc was higher than his 4.2 in 2007. This more or less shows that shittier teams held him back in his early years. Never had a real OL until Harbaugh, and likely none since. He's a running back's running back, a true football player. His longevity stats are noteworthy.......9 consecutive seasons at 4.0+ ypc (only Jim Brown and Barry Sanders had more). The only true sexy stat he had was two 78+ yard TDs in one game, which only Barry Sanders had also accomplished in NFL history. If/when Saquon Barkley does it, he will be #3. Tomlinson was a better RB in his prime than Gore for sure, I won't challenge it. But after his first 7 years he was no longer a 4.0+ ypc RB save for the 2010 stint with the Jets. Had a 3.3 ypc season on his resume. Gore meanwhile went his *first* 9.5 seasons at 4.0, then was a high 3 ypc back with other teams even managing 4.6 with the Dolphins two seasons ago. Lynch only had 9 seasons at 4.0+. Arian Foster 6 seasons. Jaamal Charles is king of the 5.0+ club, but really only a few seasons qualified because of lack of carries. Only 5 1000 yard seasons. Gore has 9 so far. Larry Johnson had two 1700+ yard seasons. Amazing, but those were his only 1000 yard seasons. Ray Rice had 5 good seasons and then fell off the cliff completely and retired. 3.1 ypc won't save you from domestic violence. Terrell Davis had 4 really good seasons, but that's literally it. His 3 best seasons are better than Gore's and many other RBs 3 best, but that's it. He played 17 games over his final 3 seasons! Adrian Peterson as amazing as he was, just missed that 9 consecutive 4.0 ypc club, with a 3.6 ypc in 2014. Had some rough years and now bounced back with the Skins. Steven Jackson is maybe the closest comp - 8 solid 4.0+ ypc seasons, starting around the same time as Gore. Largely unheralded on bad teams but very good. They've all come and gone bigger and flashier but nobody had the same kind of staying power after 30 years old except maybe AP who trails him by 1100 yards. And this is AP we are talking about. Gore was a top 5 RB his first several years in the league and then as part of the old man club, essentially the best. Emmitt Smith did much of his career rushing damage pre-30, not much more post 30. Look, you don't get to be top 3 rushing yards all time without being a HoF worthy player. It's a tough position to succeed in and be healthy long term, let alone amass huge rushing yards. So, you're saying "Eli is a lock" in a thousand words or less? And Tiki Barber deserves it as much, if not more, than Al Gore.

Eli is in, yes. #7th all time passing yards, TDs.

Rivers is slightly better with the regular season stats and W/L. Roethlisberger statistically is similar to these two.

As far as Barber over Al Gore, can't talk politics on BBI. :)

With regards to Frank Gore comp, Barber had a few very good seasons but then abruptly retired. People question whether Patrick Willis should get in, and basically all 8 seasons he played he was great.