If this is deemed political I apologize in advance don’t ban me bro, but it seems like an important update since it was kinda left as people think they overreacted seeing a normal rope.
https://twitter.com/danlinden/status/1276191344491401220?s=21 - (
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Agreed. That rope is much thicker than the pics I saw and probably double the turns.
...but those weren’t the pics released by NASCAR. They were random pics floating around the internet that various people were saying was the “noose” in question.
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and they did not resemble this picture...
...but those weren’t the pics released by NASCAR. They were random pics floating around the internet that various people were saying was the “noose” in question.
wasnt that picture released by the fbi?
If it is from wallace's garage, the knot had been retied since October.
I will admit however that when I was probably about 10 years old, I used to tie nooses all the time. I thought they were cool. I did eventually grow out of that phase.
Either way the country has a lot bigger issues than what knot is used for a garage pull. Or whether or not Kaepernick gets to play football this year for that matter.
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In comment 14924822 Chef said:
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and they did not resemble this picture...
...but those weren’t the pics released by NASCAR. They were random pics floating around the internet that various people were saying was the “noose” in question.
wasnt that picture released by the fbi?
I don’t think the FBI released anything besides their statement. Again there were of course things floating around the internet that people said came from the FBI.
If it is from wallace's garage, the knot had been retied since October.
I had read that the one in Wallace’s garage was the only one fashioned in “that form” (I.e. like a literal NOOSE). Other garage pulls were similar but not like literal nooses. Hence why certain people freaked out and the FBI was called. If this was the actual noose that was found, the story makes a whole lot more sense from everyone’s perspective now including those who messed up.
@MartySmithESPN
.... 11 rope pulleys were found but not one like this.
But something is strange, this is the picture I saw being floated.
But something is strange, this is the picture I saw being floated.
Looks like the noose was cut off at that point - hardly surprising.
Exactly, don't forget that Wallace had received death threats for driving a BLM car + asking to have the Confederate flag removed from NASCAR events. That made the death threats he received more worrisome than the typical "FU athlete I don't like!" threats that other athletes/celebrities get. NASCAR probably told teams to let us know if you see anything suspicious and the crew member saw something he thought could've been suspicious, end of story imo.
Really this was the best possible outcome. It wasn't a real threat and it wasn't a fabricated story, it was just a misunderstanding.
I wonder how many of them had been untied after the race Sunday!
I wonder which NASCAR official or Talladega track official is in charge of assigning garages.
And that's why I suspected: the picture of the smaller rope that has been circulating the internet and was deemed to be "released by the FBI" was actually just a picture of one of the other 11 ropes at the track. People saw a perfect opportunity to use it to try to de-legitimize this and make Wallace and NASCAR look like they were "just overreacting" or trying to get publicity. As though, by the end of it, this whole thing has been any sort of publicity anyone would want (it ended up being fairly embarrassing once it was deemed to be nothing).
SI article - ( New Window )
Ummm. Show a photo from several months ago where the rope already existed?
They had photographic evidence of the identical rope in that garage space from several months back at least.
They determined that the noose had been there since long before Bubba Wallace got there.
No I think someone turned the normal pull rope into a noose.
They determined it had been there since the last year like that. I couldn't believe they had 15 FBI agents there for that. I'm not even sure what the crime would be. I know there had been a federal noose hate crime act proposed, but not enacted, years ago. Some states it is illegal, but usually a misdemeanor.
But if it were a joke, it's only a "harmless" joke to them because there weren't black people going in and out of the garage who would be outraged by it.
Fast forward to last weekend when Bubba's team was assigned the stall. They go in, and see this pull rope fashioned to look like a noose.
Given that only 11 stalls in all of Nascar used a rope pull knot, and NONE of them were fashioned to look like a noose, how do you expect them to react? They are on the team with the only black driver in the sport who is racing in a car that says Black Lives Matter.
Why would they not first think that it was placed there on purpose to send a message of hate?
I'm glad that this wasn't done intentionally just to put in Bubba Wallace's stall. That would have been abhorrent. But I think it speaks to the idea of "harmless" jokes that are done by presuming insular groups and the effects and damage it can have when exposed to the broader community at large and how it could perpetuate the insularity of the group.
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found that to be the only noose out of 1600 or whatever then what the hell did the FBI do that they quickly determined it wasnt a hate crime?
They determined it had been there since the last year like that. I couldn't believe they had 15 FBI agents there for that. I'm not even sure what the crime would be. I know there had been a federal noose hate crime act proposed, but not enacted, years ago. Some states it is illegal, but usually a misdemeanor.
It would be a federal hate crime of intimidation, I believe. Yes in some states it is illegal to tie a noose.
More than likely some juvenile thinking it was funny to tie a garage pull into a noose knot and left it there.
NASCAR enjoying the publicity. Remember, even bad publicity is good.
As for 11 knots in 1680+ garages, that sounds probable. How many of those guys would even think of doing that? It is amazing what some people think is "funny."
I watched it for a few minutes, it definitely doesn't seem like that is the only pull down tied like a noose.
So it's not like the one garage with a noose pull down was assigned to the one black driver
Here is one other example and I wasn't watching anymore of this. It's over. It's stupid to tie a garage pull down like a noose. It was not done as a hate crime against Wallace. It's unfortunate he was subjected to it, and the reaction was probably over the top. Wallace's second statement nailed it I think and I hope it doesn't change the NASCAR response, but I hope it changes people's rush to judgment.
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In comment 14924859 Italianju said:
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found that to be the only noose out of 1600 or whatever then what the hell did the FBI do that they quickly determined it wasnt a hate crime?
They determined it had been there since the last year like that. I couldn't believe they had 15 FBI agents there for that. I'm not even sure what the crime would be. I know there had been a federal noose hate crime act proposed, but not enacted, years ago. Some states it is illegal, but usually a misdemeanor.
It would be a federal hate crime of intimidation, I believe. Yes in some states it is illegal to tie a noose.
More than likely some juvenile thinking it was funny to tie a garage pull into a noose knot and left it there.
NASCAR enjoying the publicity. Remember, even bad publicity is good.
As for 11 knots in 1680+ garages, that sounds probable. How many of those guys would even think of doing that? It is amazing what some people think is "funny."
Yeah, state crimes are only if there is an intent to intimidate. A stand alone rope, with nothing else, is going to be pretty hard to establish that it wasn't either A. how the rope was tied to serve another purpose or B. a really bad joke.
The picture above is certainly different that the one that was posted the other day, but I still haven't seen whether it was an actual noose, or just looks like a noose.
This is an important distinction?
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found that to be the only noose out of 1600 or whatever then what the hell did the FBI do that they quickly determined it wasnt a hate crime?
They determined it had been there since the last year like that. I couldn't believe they had 15 FBI agents there for that. I'm not even sure what the crime would be. I know there had been a federal noose hate crime act proposed, but not enacted, years ago. Some states it is illegal, but usually a misdemeanor.
What? If someone intentionally planted a noose in a black person's home or place of business, you think that wouldn't be a crime, besides maybe a "misdemeanor" in "some states"? Do you also think it's not a crime to call in a bomb threat at the super bowl because it's just a phone call?
Considering the history of this country, and the fact there are still lynchings of black people that occur in this country every once in a while these days, I don't think that's the type of thing the authorities just let slide and say "ah yeah we found out someone threatened this black public figure in a historically racist sport with a hate crime, but technically no crime has been committed sorry."
Even threatening physical harm to someone is technically "assault" based on the law (of course it's never punished to the same extent as actual physical assault). Add on the fact this would have technically been proven to be a murder-threat, and a hate-crime at that, I can't believe you would think that wouldn't constitute a serious crime.
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In comment 14924865 KDavies said:
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In comment 14924859 Italianju said:
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found that to be the only noose out of 1600 or whatever then what the hell did the FBI do that they quickly determined it wasnt a hate crime?
They determined it had been there since the last year like that. I couldn't believe they had 15 FBI agents there for that. I'm not even sure what the crime would be. I know there had been a federal noose hate crime act proposed, but not enacted, years ago. Some states it is illegal, but usually a misdemeanor.
It would be a federal hate crime of intimidation, I believe. Yes in some states it is illegal to tie a noose.
More than likely some juvenile thinking it was funny to tie a garage pull into a noose knot and left it there.
NASCAR enjoying the publicity. Remember, even bad publicity is good.
As for 11 knots in 1680+ garages, that sounds probable. How many of those guys would even think of doing that? It is amazing what some people think is "funny."
Yeah, state crimes are only if there is an intent to intimidate. A stand alone rope, with nothing else, is going to be pretty hard to establish that it wasn't either A. how the rope was tied to serve another purpose or B. a really bad joke.
The picture above is certainly different that the one that was posted the other day, but I still haven't seen whether it was an actual noose, or just looks like a noose.
Yeah the point is it has been determined no crime was committed, because there was no ill-intent toward Wallace. You seemed to be implying the FBI shouldn't have even been called because there wasn't even a *possibility* a crime had been committed. If there had actually been ill-intent, of course it would have been serious crime. That's what the FBI was called in to determine.
What are the odds that's the door the 43 team gets? Nothing to see here.
Seconded
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In comment 14924859 Italianju said:
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found that to be the only noose out of 1600 or whatever then what the hell did the FBI do that they quickly determined it wasnt a hate crime?
They determined it had been there since the last year like that. I couldn't believe they had 15 FBI agents there for that. I'm not even sure what the crime would be. I know there had been a federal noose hate crime act proposed, but not enacted, years ago. Some states it is illegal, but usually a misdemeanor.
What? If someone intentionally planted a noose in a black person's home or place of business, you think that wouldn't be a crime, besides maybe a "misdemeanor" in "some states"? Do you also think it's not a crime to call in a bomb threat at the super bowl because it's just a phone call?
Considering the history of this country, and the fact there are still lynchings of black people that occur in this country every once in a while these days, I don't think that's the type of thing the authorities just let slide and say "ah yeah we found out someone threatened this black public figure in a historically racist sport with a hate crime, but technically no crime has been committed sorry."
Even threatening physical harm to someone is technically "assault" based on the law (of course it's never punished to the same extent as actual physical assault). Add on the fact this would have technically been proven to be a murder-threat, and a hate-crime at that, I can't believe you would think that wouldn't constitute a serious crime.
Depends on what you define as a serious crime. I haven't dealt with the issue in quite a while, but I recall Louisiana law had it as a misdemeanor, and the proposed federal noose law (which did not pass) had max punishment of fine/2 years prison.
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In comment 14924872 section125 said:
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In comment 14924865 KDavies said:
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In comment 14924859 Italianju said:
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found that to be the only noose out of 1600 or whatever then what the hell did the FBI do that they quickly determined it wasnt a hate crime?
They determined it had been there since the last year like that. I couldn't believe they had 15 FBI agents there for that. I'm not even sure what the crime would be. I know there had been a federal noose hate crime act proposed, but not enacted, years ago. Some states it is illegal, but usually a misdemeanor.
It would be a federal hate crime of intimidation, I believe. Yes in some states it is illegal to tie a noose.
More than likely some juvenile thinking it was funny to tie a garage pull into a noose knot and left it there.
NASCAR enjoying the publicity. Remember, even bad publicity is good.
As for 11 knots in 1680+ garages, that sounds probable. How many of those guys would even think of doing that? It is amazing what some people think is "funny."
Yeah, state crimes are only if there is an intent to intimidate. A stand alone rope, with nothing else, is going to be pretty hard to establish that it wasn't either A. how the rope was tied to serve another purpose or B. a really bad joke.
The picture above is certainly different that the one that was posted the other day, but I still haven't seen whether it was an actual noose, or just looks like a noose.
Yeah the point is it has been determined no crime was committed, because there was no ill-intent toward Wallace. You seemed to be implying the FBI shouldn't have even been called because there wasn't even a *possibility* a crime had been committed. If there had actually been ill-intent, of course it would have been serious crime. That's what the FBI was called in to determine.
I did not imply that the FBI shouldn't have been called. I was surprised, having worked in the federal courts, how many FBI agents were called for this. It was a lot.
The picture above is certainly different that the one that was posted the other day, but I still haven't seen whether it was an actual noose, or just looks like a noose.
The picture posted today was the one released by NASCAR, and it is quite obviously a noose. There's also a picture above from November showing a noose that looks just like the one posted today from a different angle. No one *actually* knows the source of the pic posted "the other day" you're referring to. People said it came from the FBI but I haven't seen a single reputable source confirm the FBI released it and that it was a picture of Bubba's stall.
Same reason the confederate flag is now banned.
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... but I still haven't seen whether it was an actual noose, or just looks like a noose.
This is an important distinction?
A noose tightens. There are other knots that may look like a noose, but are not nooses because they don't tighten. In garages, there are pull ropes that are looped like that because people's hands are often greasy, and a straight rope is difficult to grasp with greasy hands.
If it was a noose that tightened, it would be a lot worse IMO because there would be no functional purpose for it. What is the functional purpose of a pull rope that tightens on you?
They determined it had been there since the last year like that. I couldn't believe they had 15 FBI agents there for that. I'm not even sure what the crime would be. I know there had been a federal noose hate crime act proposed, but not enacted, years ago. Some states it is illegal, but usually a misdemeanor.
...
I did not imply that the FBI shouldn't have been called. I was surprised, having worked in the federal courts, how many FBI agents were called for this. It was a lot.
You're right, you didn't imply the FBI shouldn't have been called, you just said you were surprised that many agents were called. Hindsight is always 20/20, but considering the context with this being the only black driver in a racist sport in Alabama, and the fact NASCAR didn't know it had been there since 2019, I can see why the FBI took it so seriously. Also-- it's likely if this was just some regular Joe who found a noose in his office, that many FBI agents wouldn't have been called. But considering the publicity of this thing, imagine if a major sports figure was somehow murdered overnight because the investigation didn't get done immediately. THAT is why I assume so many agents were called. The FBI was thinking and preparing for the worst case scenario. This was a purposeful overreaction because of the potential for how bad it could have looked if they under-reacted. If they under-reacted and the worst imaginable thing happened, there'd likely be major backlash and another month of public unrest, hence federal law enforcement went with the "better safe than sorry" approach.
Same reason the confederate flag is now banned.
You can almost guarantee NASCAR will now institute regulations on pull ropes/types of knots that can be used.
What are the odds that's the door the 43 team gets? Nothing to see here.
That was a very convenient response from NASCAR. Having a brother-in-law who works on a team, he's said that rope pulls with hand holds are common.
And knowing how NASCAR operates, they likely told the local track official to report back on the garage situation. How many ropes were untied? How many officials wanted to report they had a noose in a stall?
Look, NASCAR had a great moment showing support of Wallace this weekend. People should focus on that. A rope that existed for several months that wasn't intended for Wallace is detracting from that.
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They determined it had been there since the last year like that. I couldn't believe they had 15 FBI agents there for that. I'm not even sure what the crime would be. I know there had been a federal noose hate crime act proposed, but not enacted, years ago. Some states it is illegal, but usually a misdemeanor.
...
I did not imply that the FBI shouldn't have been called. I was surprised, having worked in the federal courts, how many FBI agents were called for this. It was a lot.
You're right, you didn't imply the FBI shouldn't have been called, you just said you were surprised that many agents were called. Hindsight is always 20/20, but considering the context with this being the only black driver in a racist sport in Alabama, and the fact NASCAR didn't know it had been there since 2019, I can see why the FBI took it so seriously. Also-- it's likely if this was just some regular Joe who found a noose in his office, that many FBI agents wouldn't have been called. But considering the publicity of this thing, imagine if a major sports figure was somehow murdered overnight because the investigation didn't get done immediately. THAT is why I assume so many agents were called. The FBI was thinking and preparing for the worst case scenario. This was a purposeful overreaction because of the potential for how bad it could have looked if they under-reacted. If they under-reacted and the worst imaginable thing happened, there'd likely be major backlash and another month of public unrest, hence federal law enforcement went with the "better safe than sorry" approach.
Agreed. That was my point. They (NASCAR and the FBI) really took it seriously. I saw some criticism from NASCAR for getting the feds involved, which I found bizarre. They would have been hammered if they did an internal investigation and came to the same conclusion, as conspiracy theorists would have been calling it a cover-up
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That's a noose. If I was on the crew for a Black driver, I'd report it too. The explanation may be 100% innocent, but it's weird.
Exactly, don't forget that Wallace had received death threats for driving a BLM car + asking to have the Confederate flag removed from NASCAR events. That made the death threats he received more worrisome than the typical "FU athlete I don't like!" threats that other athletes/celebrities get. NASCAR probably told teams to let us know if you see anything suspicious and the crew member saw something he thought could've been suspicious, end of story imo.
Really this was the best possible outcome. It wasn't a real threat and it wasn't a fabricated story, it was just a misunderstanding.
It wasn't fabricated?? You gotta be joking! This was Jussie Smollett 2.0! Not only that....When all you see is race then that's how you are going to perceive the world you live in. Pathetic excuse.
And while my initial impression was he was trying to milk the attention, he's made statements in the past day or two saying that he's relieved it wasn't targeted at him and he just wants to make sure that the situation was investigated properly.
Smollett intentionally faked an assault and framed it as being the work of racists.
It's not even close to a noose.
It's not even close to a noose.
That is not a double half hitch. A double half hitch slides and closes the becket when the line is pulled. It would never be used for making a loop for a pull down (in actuality a noose knot slides also). It is also not a clove hitch.
I tried to count the turns around the line, and there appears to be 4 turns, but it is blurry.