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What the hell happened to the 2012 Giants?

SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/27/2020 7:47 pm
Started 6-2 only to stumble & go 3-5 down the stretch to finish 9-7 & miss the playoffs. Some of the losses were just downright ugly-Atlanta & Baltimore in December come to mind.

I don't remember any significant injuries, though it's been 8 years so some might slip the mind. Was it Sandy? That's not a joke. We just beat Dallas to go to 6-2 & then Sandy hits & the season-& to be honest, the franchise since-was really never the same. Was it just a team losing steam as the season progressed? Tougher schedule?

The loss that really stung was to the Skins on MNF in DC. We had that game.
Didn’t Eli’s house get flooded or something from  
eric2425ny : 6/27/2020 7:51 pm : link
Hurricane Sandy? I mean these guys are human being with families, I can’t imagine that helping their focus.
Sandy definitely threw them off  
DieHard : 6/27/2020 8:12 pm : link
But they righted the ship somewhat and were 8-5 before getting ripped by the Falcons and Ravens. The Ravens I can understand, they were getting hot at the right time for their Super Bowl run. But we just laid down and died against the Falcons.

No major injuries as far as I can recall (although Nicks wasn't the same after his early season injury) -- I just remember both the offense and defense being completely out of sorts. I think the accumulated mental/physical fatigue got to them. And maybe opponents had figured out our offense and defense to some extent -- it certainly looked very similar to what would occur again and again the next few years.
bitterly disappointing season IMO  
bluepepper : 6/27/2020 8:21 pm : link
I have always blamed the coaching staff since the team simply didn't show up for some of the tougher road games - Cincy, Atlanta and Baltimore. We clobbered the Niners and Packers that year so we had the talent to play with anyone. And the Packer win was at 6-4 and post-Sandy so it wasn't like something happened that suddenly deflated the team.

Simple as the team was ready to play some games and not some others. Also I think that's the year Eli's 4th quarter magic wore off as a couple of losses were there for the taking late but we couldn't get it done.
Number of things....  
Ryan : 6/27/2020 8:22 pm : link
- Eli hurt his shoulder against SF (and someone was on here the year or so after with connections to med staff that said he’d hurt it earlier in the year too). There was a lot of speculation publicly in the 2nd half of the year that his arm was fatigued so it makes sense.

- Nicks hurt his knee (I believe that was the year he broke his foot in the offseason too) and was largely a shell of himself when he came back.

- Cruz took a huge shot against Pitt and seemed to be off a little from there on.

- Jacobs was gone and Wilson ended up the doghouse. By that time Bradshaw had to handle the load but his ankle/foot issues kept him out of practice regularly. I think by year end we’re had to start Kregg Lumpkin.

- Several on the defense admitted after the season that they thought they could just turn it on for a run but couldn’t. They got smoked in back to back weeks by what would ultimately be 2 of the top 3 teams in the league with the season on the line. They lived and died by TO’s and good specials play most of the year.

That team absolutely had the talent to repeat - they physically kicked the shit out of both GB and SF in revenge games but just wore down. Blowing that 4th Q lead against Pitt was a killer in light of it being right after Sandy and the fact they they - as far as I know - asked for no concession from the league.
It was a combination of things  
Jay on the Island : 6/27/2020 8:25 pm : link
The offensive line was old and falling apart.

Kevin Boothe, David Diehl, and Chris Snee all declined significantly at the same time. David Baas did not play well in the middle either.

Yes. Nicks was never the same  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/27/2020 8:26 pm : link
after the Bucs game in Week 2.
I remember  
djstat : 6/27/2020 8:26 pm : link
Eli throwing a beautiful TD to Nicks late in the game. I remember that night, Collinsworth saying "Eli Manning might be the best player in football right now." Then it all fell apart.

That season was especially disappointing for me  
Jay on the Island : 6/27/2020 8:27 pm : link
I lost my home and all my possessions in Sandy. The Giants were supposed to be one of the few positive distractions coming off a Superbowl win.
RE: Yes. Nicks was never the same  
Jay on the Island : 6/27/2020 8:29 pm : link
In comment 14925671 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
after the Bucs game in Week 2.

Nicks was absolutely destroying Aqib Talib in that game. IIRC he had 180+ yards when Talib stepped on Nicks foot. Nicks was never the same after that. I can't imagine what Nicks must've been going through back then. He was arguably a top 5 WR in the NFL on his way to earning a massive contract extension only to having it all taken away from him.
looking at the scores again  
bluepepper : 6/27/2020 8:29 pm : link
I realize this is the year of the Eli-Cruz TD at home against Wash so he did pull that one out of the hat for us so maybe he still had some 4th qtr magic.
Jay  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/27/2020 8:40 pm : link
I was talking to a buddy earlier-a big time Giants fan too-about the '11 Giants & he said, 'I forgot how good Nicks was.'

Nicks was probably the best Giants WR I've ever seen. He had everything.

It's a shame injuries ruined his career. I think he had HOF potential.
RE: Jay  
Jay on the Island : 6/27/2020 8:46 pm : link
In comment 14925676 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I was talking to a buddy earlier-a big time Giants fan too-about the '11 Giants & he said, 'I forgot how good Nicks was.'

Nicks was probably the best Giants WR I've ever seen. He had everything.

It's a shame injuries ruined his career. I think he had HOF potential.

He was, During the 2011 playoff run Nicks showed that he was one of the best WR's in the game. I know that Cruz received most of the attention by fans but Nicks was clearly the better WR.
Nicks had a lot of michael Irvin in him for a stretch  
djm : 6/27/2020 9:25 pm : link
2011 - January/February 2012 he was as good as anyone.
If Nicks had stayed healthy  
rebel yell : 6/27/2020 9:27 pm : link
he's a HOF player and a Giants all-time great. He was incredible.
He’s only 6 mos older than Golden Tate...  
Ryan : 6/27/2020 9:36 pm : link
...and it’s been almost 8 years since he played really good football for us. He should be at the top of all our reviving records.

Receiving  
Ryan : 6/27/2020 9:36 pm : link
..
The Giants had the worst injury luck I've ever seen from about  
Greg from LI : 6/27/2020 10:15 pm : link
2008-2012 or so.
RE: The Giants had the worst injury luck I've ever seen from about  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/27/2020 10:33 pm : link
In comment 14925686 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
2008-2012 or so.


The amount and severity of the injuries this team suffered is simply unbelievable. Combine that with a rapidly deteriorating offensive line and bad drafting... it was the beginning of the fall from grace.
There was one play on Monday night against Washington that stands out  
Drewcon40 : 6/27/2020 11:46 pm : link
..as a momentum breaker. The Giants were down by 1 and were driving late in the 4th quarter. Martellus Bennett catches a would be 1st down that was negated by a Beatty hold. It would have been a fresh set of downs at almost mid-field. they were forced to punt and never saw the ball.

They did beat the Saints pretty good the next week but then, as the above posters stated, too lopsided losses and I believe Chicago's win in week 17 knocked us out.
As Ryan mentions above..  
Sean : 6/28/2020 12:27 am : link
the Pittsburgh loss was such a killer. It was the first game post Sandy and they were up 20-10 late. Blew the game which would have gotten them to 7-2 and likely win the division.

Losing to Washington 17-16 sealed their fate considering how tough their remaining schedule was.
RE: RE: Yes. Nicks was never the same  
sb from NYT Forum : 6/28/2020 2:07 am : link
In comment 14925674 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14925671 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


after the Bucs game in Week 2.


Nicks was absolutely destroying Aqib Talib in that game. IIRC he had 180+ yards when Talib stepped on Nicks foot. Nicks was never the same after that. I can't imagine what Nicks must've been going through back then. He was arguably a top 5 WR in the NFL on his way to earning a massive contract extension only to having it all taken away from him.


Career-altering injury on the last play of the best game of his career. Just fucking horrible luck.
Didn't they have a soft schedule early  
xman : 6/28/2020 6:11 am : link
in the season so their record was a bit misleading ??. Then injuries took their toll . The year Kenny Phillips went down
RE: The Giants had the worst injury luck I've ever seen from about  
BillT : 6/28/2020 8:32 am : link
In comment 14925686 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
2008-2012 or so.

It went on for longer than that. Through 2016 at least.
RE: RE: The Giants had the worst injury luck I've ever seen from about  
Britt in VA : 6/28/2020 8:35 am : link
In comment 14925689 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14925686 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


2008-2012 or so.



The amount and severity of the injuries this team suffered is simply unbelievable. Combine that with a rapidly deteriorating offensive line and bad drafting... it was the beginning of the fall from grace.


Not to mention it was normally clustered at certain positions. Every year it felt like a different position group would get decimated.
Player losses, no depth  
HomerJones45 : 6/28/2020 9:34 am : link
They got nothing out of the draft (Randle turned out to be the best player from that draft), Manningham was gone to SF so Hixon was the #3 receiver and we had seen that movie before when he had to step in for Burress not to mention he was coming off Achilles and knee injuries. Bradshaw had a good season, but again no depth- Andre Brown was the #2 back and he gained a whole 350 yards. There was no depth in the secondary when Amukamara missed time.

Yes, the basic team had talent to make the playoffs if it stayed totally healthy but there was nothing behind the starters.
That 2012 team didn't have the spark of the prior year's  
LBH15 : 6/28/2020 9:40 am : link
team, even with the same record of 9-7. Roughly the same roster but when injuries did hit, they didn't have the backups and rookies step up. Eli, Cruz and JPP had decent seasons but definitely not the same magic as they showed the year before.

Giants had a back-breaking loss in the division to Washington & RG3 in second half of the season which probably was the key game. But they also showed they were falling apart as a team late in the season with blowout losses to ATL and BAL.

not putting it all on one loss  
Enzo : 6/28/2020 9:56 am : link
but losing to a bad (4-12) Eagles team in week 4 didn't help matters. Like most other years, Reid had our number.
in 2012, we just go "old" and no youth to step up  
SGMen : 6/28/2020 10:05 am : link
It really was that simple. You have to draft well and we didn't.
I was told by some relatives that live near the stadium  
edavisiii : 6/28/2020 10:20 am : link
that the events in Newtown Conn school shooting also had an effect on the team.
RE: I was told by some relatives that live near the stadium  
SGMen : 6/28/2020 10:28 am : link
In comment 14925742 edavisiii said:
Quote:
that the events in Newtown Conn school shooting also had an effect on the team.
Interesting. Hurrican Sandy, a shooting and the "post-SB" mental letdown all likely didn't help.

But the biggest thing is we got old, injured and perhaps unlucky with a break or two.
As alluded above  
GManinDC : 6/28/2020 2:56 pm : link
injuries and unexpected injuries derailed this team. I would bet there were picks in those drafts and players that was suppose to be the cornerstone of the team going forward. Nicks, Cruz, Randle, Phillips, Chad Jones, etc.

They would have been resetting their long term plans almost every because of injuries. That has to affect your draft strategy..
Didn’t the Sandy Hook massacre happen in 2012?  
exiled : 6/28/2020 3:31 pm : link
I remember feeling like that shook everybody in the NY area. I know some of the players met with the families, etc. It seemed to burst the fantasy of a late-season romp. (Maybe 2012 wasn’t Sandy Hook; shoulda looked it up.)

I DEFINITELY remember coming home from a weekend out of town and being utterly shocked when I found out we were shut out by Atlanta. The wheels have been off the wagon ever since.
Lastly, I think Eli started to get skittish behind the OL  
SGMen : 6/28/2020 3:36 pm : link
Eli took a beating in 2011 and won us a SB.

But I can swear it seemed to me Eli got skittish starting in 2012. He couldn't escape as well as he did earlier in his career.
RE: Lastly, I think Eli started to get skittish behind the OL  
Jay on the Island : 6/28/2020 5:51 pm : link
In comment 14925870 SGMen said:
Quote:
Eli took a beating in 2011 and won us a SB.

But I can swear it seemed to me Eli got skittish starting in 2012. He couldn't escape as well as he did earlier in his career.

He wasn't skittish in 2012. Eli was exceptional navigating the pocket in 2011. That line played very poorly but Eli was always able to buy time by moving around in the pocket. This was a key reason for his phenomenal season and underrated part of his game. I hope that Jones develops that pocket awareness.

He became skittish around 2016-2017.
RE: RE: Lastly, I think Eli started to get skittish behind the OL  
LBH15 : 6/28/2020 6:11 pm : link
In comment 14925897 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14925870 SGMen said:


Quote:


Eli took a beating in 2011 and won us a SB.

But I can swear it seemed to me Eli got skittish starting in 2012. He couldn't escape as well as he did earlier in his career.


He wasn't skittish in 2012. Eli was exceptional navigating the pocket in 2011. That line played very poorly but Eli was always able to buy time by moving around in the pocket. This was a key reason for his phenomenal season and underrated part of his game. I hope that Jones develops that pocket awareness.

He became skittish around 2016-2017.


Eli got whacked by Redskins in a game early in 2016 season in a tough loss.

Not for nothing, but to me that is when the eyes started looking at the rush moreso, he became more impatient in pocket and quick throws and checkdowns increased.
RE: RE: RE: Lastly, I think Eli started to get skittish behind the OL  
SGMen : 6/28/2020 6:40 pm : link
In comment 14925900 LBH15 said:
Quote:
In comment 14925897 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


In comment 14925870 SGMen said:


Quote:


Eli took a beating in 2011 and won us a SB.

But I can swear it seemed to me Eli got skittish starting in 2012. He couldn't escape as well as he did earlier in his career.


He wasn't skittish in 2012. Eli was exceptional navigating the pocket in 2011. That line played very poorly but Eli was always able to buy time by moving around in the pocket. This was a key reason for his phenomenal season and underrated part of his game. I hope that Jones develops that pocket awareness.

He became skittish around 2016-2017.



Eli got whacked by Redskins in a game early in 2016 season in a tough loss.

Not for nothing, but to me that is when the eyes started looking at the rush moreso, he became more impatient in pocket and quick throws and checkdowns increased.
Perhaps. I began to notice he couldn't sidestep the rush like he did in 2011 and earlier. Maybe it came gradually but seemed profound and that is why I think it began in 2012.

I still think Eli could play well for the right team but he'd need a top 5 type OL and a solid run game. Not many teams that fit that type of bill. After being a starter for essentially his whole career and being wealthy I doubt he'd want to be a backup for less than $10m or whatever.
RE: not putting it all on one loss  
djm : 6/28/2020 9:14 pm : link
In comment 14925731 Enzo said:
Quote:
but losing to a bad (4-12) Eagles team in week 4 didn't help matters. Like most other years, Reid had our number.


That was a game and moment I’ll never forget. Truly the beginning of the end. The giants and Eli simply didn’t lose that kind of game. They had been killing that moment for the last 7 years or so. Had Philly on the ropes. Road game. Eli with the ball, driving, opposition just begging to be put out of its misery and the giants shit the bed. Eli, coughlin ant the offense got so weird on the last drive in that game. By weird I mean they were super aggressive almost in an arrogant way, but that was kind of their m.o. back then. Except this time they lost the game. Pitt game was another one but to me the loss that started it all was at philly 2012.
Unfortunate end  
lax counsel : 6/29/2020 12:22 am : link
To a great era of giants football. The 2012 team had talent all over the field, a top qb, and a legendary head coach. Unfortunately the cracks started to show. As others said unfortunate injuries and some key aging positions that stated to decline. Add to that a number of poor drafts by Reese and co that couldn’t replace the injured or aging talent. It all added up to 2013-present Giants football.

It’s a shame because if the Giants could have replaced the oline, they had the ability to probably win a 3rd title in the Coughlin/Manning era.
Anyone that thinks injuries weren't a major reason is offbase  
Torrag : 6/29/2020 12:51 am : link
Once teams caught on to Nicks ineffectiveness and our backfield woes it was easy to put the clamps on the second half of the season. We simply couldn't do enough on offense and that defense was good but not good enough to carry us.
The drafting was pretty good up until 2012  
GManinDC : 6/29/2020 12:12 pm : link
I don't think that was the issue as much as it has been repeated on here. There were also some bad coaching decisions in that 2012 - 2016 stretch.
RE: Anyone that thinks injuries weren't a major reason is offbase  
SGMen : 6/29/2020 12:19 pm : link
In comment 14925977 Torrag said:
Quote:
Once teams caught on to Nicks ineffectiveness and our backfield woes it was easy to put the clamps on the second half of the season. We simply couldn't do enough on offense and that defense was good but not good enough to carry us.
The Nicks and Cruz injuries really hurt. The drafting 2012 to 2016 kept us from ever rising up again. A shame Eli's last year's were without talent around him.
They misjudged the roster  
JonC : 6/29/2020 12:20 pm : link
after the improbably 2011 title run.

Steeply declining OL, key injuries at bad times, awful road team in the second half of the season, and weren't the same after Sandy hit.

Probably just hit the wall as many teams tend to the season after winning the SB.
RE: The drafting was pretty good up until 2012  
Enzo : 6/29/2020 12:23 pm : link
In comment 14926186 GManinDC said:
Quote:
I don't think that was the issue as much as it has been repeated on here. There were also some bad coaching decisions in that 2012 - 2016 stretch.

even when Reese's drafts were ok, they went a long time where they got basically nothing out of rounds 4-7. You have to hit on a player there at least occasionally.
RE: They misjudged the roster  
Victor in CT : 6/29/2020 12:24 pm : link
In comment 14926199 JonC said:
Quote:
after the improbably 2011 title run.

Steeply declining OL, key injuries at bad times, awful road team in the second half of the season, and weren't the same after Sandy hit.

Probably just hit the wall as many teams tend to the season after winning the SB.


Yep. But I understood trying to give that group a chance to repeat. THe bigger problem was that they doubled down for 2013 with the stupid Super Bowl Clock when the team was toast. They were out of gas after winning in 2011, on fumes in 2012 and in need of a tow by 2013.
Offensive Line was their demise and it was showing by 2012  
LBH15 : 6/29/2020 1:10 pm : link
After drafting Will Beatty in 2009, these were the investments in the OL for the next few years:

2010 - Mitch Petrus in 5th round
2011 - James Brewer in 4th round
2012 - Brandon Mosley in 4th; Matt McCants in 6th

The Oline was in major need of quality investments over these years to replace their aging veterans, and these low draft picks were basically worthless.

So in true NY Giant fashion, they finally see the error of their drafting ways and use high picks over the next three years and select Pugh, Richburg and Flowers. Except these guys weren't ever worth their draft value on the field. Free agent signings onto the OL over this period also never panned out.

So here we are in 2020 after wasting most of the last decade, hoping that the heavy investment in the OL from this latest draft is the answer.

RE: I remember  
Joey from GlenCove : 6/29/2020 1:37 pm : link
In comment 14925672 djstat said:
Quote:
Eli throwing a beautiful TD to Nicks late in the game. I remember that night, Collinsworth saying "Eli Manning might be the best player in football right now." Then it all fell apart.


which game?
I get the argument that the 2012  
Enzo : 6/29/2020 1:44 pm : link
team faltered down the stretch given the lopsided losses to the Bengals, Falcons and Ravens - but it is worth noting that the 2012 team scored more points and allowed fewer points than their 2011 counterparts, and both finished 3-5 in the second half of the season.





RE: I get the argument that the 2012  
LBH15 : 6/29/2020 1:52 pm : link
In comment 14926272 Enzo said:
Quote:
team faltered down the stretch given the lopsided losses to the Bengals, Falcons and Ravens - but it is worth noting that the 2012 team scored more points and allowed fewer points than their 2011 counterparts, and both finished 3-5 in the second half of the season.






The 2011 team didn't play like champions until the playoffs. Until that time, they lived off of big plays by Cruz, JPP and Eli's 4th qtr magic.
RE: RE: I remember  
JonC : 6/29/2020 1:58 pm : link
In comment 14926264 Joey from GlenCove said:
Quote:
In comment 14925672 djstat said:


Quote:


Eli throwing a beautiful TD to Nicks late in the game. I remember that night, Collinsworth saying "Eli Manning might be the best player in football right now." Then it all fell apart.




which game?


49ers, I believe.
RE: RE: I get the argument that the 2012  
Enzo : 6/29/2020 2:16 pm : link
In comment 14926285 LBH15 said:
Quote:
In comment 14926272 Enzo said:


Quote:


team faltered down the stretch given the lopsided losses to the Bengals, Falcons and Ravens - but it is worth noting that the 2012 team scored more points and allowed fewer points than their 2011 counterparts, and both finished 3-5 in the second half of the season.








The 2011 team didn't play like champions until the playoffs. Until that time, they lived off of big plays by Cruz, JPP and Eli's 4th qtr magic.

agree. They needed to come back late to beat mediocre teams like the Bills, Cardinals, Dolphins. Lost twice to a bad Redskins team. Four game losing streak right in the middle of the season (I guess you could call the GB game a "good loss").

TC deserves all kinds of credit for the two wins vs. Dallas and the subsequent playoff run in 2011, but I think there was enough talent between 2010-2012 to make the playoffs more than once and win some more regular season games.
The offensive line fell apart.  
St. Jimmy : 6/29/2020 2:16 pm : link
If I remember Shaun Locklear was actually having a decent season and blew out his knee during the December Redskins game. That put Diehl back in who was toast at that point.

The team, even going back to 2011 had a lot of issues showing up for games. They would be down early and come roaring back to win. In 2012, the comebacks stopped in the second half and just became ass kicking.

The 2012 season was the bridge from the last gasp Superbowl team, to the 2013 team which started 0-6. I don't think that was the bridge TC was talking about building in 2012.
Jon  
GManinDC : 6/30/2020 11:29 am : link
You been killing this thread! I am in agreement with you on all your points. And i alluded to it earlier, when you now have a 2 time winning Coach and QB, you tend to try to win that "one more' and make decisions you wouldn't normally make..
I think Sandy really hurt...  
BillKo : 6/30/2020 11:59 am : link
..and the team got roughed up against Pittsburgh.

Someone said something about Cruz taking a hit...it was on an incomplete pass early and the hit, as I remember, was a tad late.

Even though we were winning that game, we didn't play that well to get the lead. And Pitt just imposed their force on us in the 4th quarter. Eli was a sitting duck.

And I think the team ran out of gas.....post Super Bowl, and let's face it the team under TC was never a second half team.

Speaking of that Bucs game  
MookGiants : 6/30/2020 1:23 pm : link
where Nicks trouble started, I'm not sure I've ever seen a more wildly entertaining regular season game. That shit was fun.

Been a long, long time since the Giants were fun to watch on a consistent basis.
One thing about the 2012 Giants is that they could light up....  
Emlen'sGremlins : 6/30/2020 1:30 pm : link
....the scoreboard in a lot of games.

41, 36, 41, 26, 27, 29, 38, 52, 42
27-19  
MookGiants : 6/30/2020 1:31 pm : link
with 7 minutes to go.

27-27 shortly after. Then 34-27 after that, then bucs come back and tie it, then Nicks has a huge catch to set up andre browns go ahead touchdown. Then schiano does his clown show act when the Giants take a knee.

Ridiculously fun.
Nicks  
Paulie Walnuts : 6/30/2020 6:12 pm : link
was never the same after that Bucs game injury
RE: Nicks  
LBH15 : 6/30/2020 6:14 pm : link
In comment 14926978 Paulie Walnuts said:
Quote:
was never the same after that Bucs game injury


Didn't it start earlier for Nicks that year...getting hurt in OTAs?
RE: RE: Nicks  
LBH15 : 6/30/2020 6:19 pm : link
In comment 14926979 LBH15 said:
Quote:
In comment 14926978 Paulie Walnuts said:


Quote:


was never the same after that Bucs game injury



Didn't it start earlier for Nicks that year...getting hurt in OTAs?


Yep. Just looked it up...he broke his foot in OTAs and had a screw placed in his foot for a few months.

He came back and looked damn good in that Bucs game though. But his wheels fell off a cliff as we know so this was probably the start of it all.
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