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1991 Simms Vs. Hoss

djstat : 6/28/2020 10:35 am
Stats by no means mean everything, but interesting stat here. In 12 starts Hoss threw 5 TDs and 4 INT. In four starts Simms tossed 8 TDs and 4 INT.

Grateful to both players but as a 12 y/o in ‘91 i was bummed Simms was not the starter. Do you think Simms starting from day 1 in ‘91 would have made a difference?
No, we got old in a hurry.  
Big Blue '56 : 6/28/2020 10:37 am : link
Only a Parcells could have lifted them to a tourney-competitive season, imo
Yeah, they were getting older  
Greg from LI : 6/28/2020 10:45 am : link
But even an average coach would have had them in the playoffs. Dan Reeves was no great shakes and he had them competitive in 1993.
I referenced Parcells in this instance  
Big Blue '56 : 6/28/2020 10:50 am : link
because he knew every nook and cranny of each player and the exact buttons to push. These were HIS guys.
the  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/28/2020 10:58 am : link
Simms versus Hostetler debate was about as unpleasant a time to be a Giants fan as there was. People passionately took sides and were downright awful to the quarterback that they didn't favor. The old Simms bashers came out of the wordwork too (they had been in hiding for four years).
RE: the  
Angel Eyes : 6/28/2020 10:59 am : link
In comment 14925768 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Simms versus Hostetler debate was about as unpleasant a time to be a Giants fan as there was. People passionately took sides and were downright awful to the quarterback that they didn't favor. The old Simms bashers came out of the wordwork too (they had been in hiding for four years).

Kinda like Bledsoe and Brady 10 years later?
RE: Yeah, they were getting older  
djm : 6/28/2020 11:28 am : link
In comment 14925753 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
But even an average coach would have had them in the playoffs. Dan Reeves was no great shakes and he had them competitive in 1993.


Seconded. That 91 - 92 had no business going 14-18. They had an OL, good running backs, good QBs, and enough on D. They were not below average by any stretch. They suffered from a lack of leadership and coaching. Should have been more like 18-14.
One thing I will say about Hoss vs. Phil...  
Grey Pilgrim : 6/28/2020 12:05 pm : link
is I don't think we win SB 25 without him! That is, Hoss...
Not the first thread on this.....  
Crazed Dogs : 6/28/2020 2:02 pm : link
Phil..... all the way.... and it is not even close
RE: the  
truebluelarry : 6/28/2020 2:34 pm : link
In comment 14925768 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Simms versus Hostetler debate was about as unpleasant a time to be a Giants fan as there was. People passionately took sides and were downright awful to the quarterback that they didn't favor. The old Simms bashers came out of the wordwork too (they had been in hiding for four years).


It seems like when these threads come up everyone is saying simms was the obvious choice, but that was NOT the case in 1991. Many, many fans were behind Hostetler because they liked his mobility. And, the 1991 season open versus San Francisco at Giants Stadium on MNF seemed to fortify that claim. Hoss made the plays late in the game just like he did in the NFC Championship in January. Problems began surfacing a week later though and it became apparent the coach may have been in over his head.
I thought Simms was kind of screwed early and late in his career.  
81_Great_Dane : 6/28/2020 2:36 pm : link
Parcells started Brunner over Simms when it was obvious to anyone with two eyes that Simms was the superior player and leader. Parcells eventually figured that out. Then later Hostetler was promoted over Simms. Hoss was a nice player, pretty good, but Simms was a much better passer; it wasn't close.

I liked Hostetler but come on.
I think the Giants  
mdthedream : 6/28/2020 3:14 pm : link
had the best team in football until Simms went down. To say they wouldn't have won if Simms didn't get hurt is crazy. The Giants really won with a avg QB in Hoss.
RE: I think the Giants  
Optimus-NY : 6/29/2020 6:15 am : link
In comment 14925864 mdthedream said:
Quote:
had the best team in football until Simms went down. To say they wouldn't have won if Simms didn't get hurt is crazy. The Giants really won with a avg QB in Hoss.


Not true. Matt Millen himself said the Hoss was the giants' missing x-factor in the 90 NFC Championship Game in Frisco. The Giants lose to the Niners with Simms. He would have gotten clobbered by that ferocious Niners pass rush. I do think Phil would have been fine the next week though against the Bills.
After winning SB XXV, Giants made the mistake of not trading Hoss  
dpinzow : 6/29/2020 8:58 am : link
to a team who needed a QB and drafting a QB of the future to replace Simms
RE: RE: the  
Victor in CT : 6/29/2020 9:14 am : link
In comment 14925769 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
In comment 14925768 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


Simms versus Hostetler debate was about as unpleasant a time to be a Giants fan as there was. People passionately took sides and were downright awful to the quarterback that they didn't favor. The old Simms bashers came out of the wordwork too (they had been in hiding for four years).


Kinda like Bledsoe and Brady 10 years later?


No. The Pats thing was not even close. Bledsoe was not beloved, nor had he won a title.
i was absolutely furious  
YorkAveGiant : 6/29/2020 3:47 pm : link
handley started Hoss over Simms.

Simms should credit for the Bucs win too.

with Simms all year, who knows where that team goes to.
RE: the  
x meadowlander : 6/29/2020 4:01 pm : link
In comment 14925768 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Simms versus Hostetler debate was about as unpleasant a time to be a Giants fan as there was. People passionately took sides and were downright awful to the quarterback that they didn't favor. The old Simms bashers came out of the wordwork too (they had been in hiding for four years).
Spot on. And ridiculous - Simms had done NOTHING to lose his job - IMO, he was playing at the highest level of his career, had gotten the Interceptions WAY down, had become a master of the 2 minute drill, a great game manager, a class act.

Benching him was a slap in the face.

While I do believe the team would have performed better with Simms at QB, the real and obvious issue was Handley. Wrong man for the job, clear as day when the team performed so much better in 93 with a similar, aging lineup.
RE: RE: the  
Victor in CT : 6/29/2020 4:35 pm : link
In comment 14926349 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
In comment 14925768 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


Simms versus Hostetler debate was about as unpleasant a time to be a Giants fan as there was. People passionately took sides and were downright awful to the quarterback that they didn't favor. The old Simms bashers came out of the wordwork too (they had been in hiding for four years).

Spot on. And ridiculous - Simms had done NOTHING to lose his job - IMO, he was playing at the highest level of his career, had gotten the Interceptions WAY down, had become a master of the 2 minute drill, a great game manager, a class act.

Benching him was a slap in the face.

While I do believe the team would have performed better with Simms at QB, the real and obvious issue was Handley. Wrong man for the job, clear as day when the team performed so much better in 93 with a similar, aging lineup.


agree. with both of you
RE: RE: the  
LBH15 : 6/29/2020 4:38 pm : link
In comment 14926349 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
In comment 14925768 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


Simms versus Hostetler debate was about as unpleasant a time to be a Giants fan as there was. People passionately took sides and were downright awful to the quarterback that they didn't favor. The old Simms bashers came out of the wordwork too (they had been in hiding for four years).

Spot on. And ridiculous - Simms had done NOTHING to lose his job - IMO, he was playing at the highest level of his career, had gotten the Interceptions WAY down, had become a master of the 2 minute drill, a great game manager, a class act.

Benching him was a slap in the face.

While I do believe the team would have performed better with Simms at QB, the real and obvious issue was Handley. Wrong man for the job, clear as day when the team performed so much better in 93 with a similar, aging lineup.


Yep, Simms should have been the guy.
Handley was too clever by half.  
Big Blue Blogger : 7/1/2020 9:55 am : link
The schedule opened with three teams that had historically given Phil trouble: the 49ers, Rams, and Bears. RH knew what had happened in 1987, when the champs opened with a terrible loss to Chicago and dropped to 0-2 before the strike finished them off. Hoss had been key to playoff wins over two of those teams en route to SB XXV. So he went with the mobile QB, in hopes of picking up where the ‘90 team left off.

It worked for a week. The defense shut down Steve Young, and Hoss made enough plays to squeak by in the opener. In Week 2 against the Rams, though, all the problems with the Handley-Hoss combination were on full display. The offense couldn’t finish drives, and the defense could no longer carry the team.

Would Phil have done better? Hard to say. Would Handley have let Phil be Phil? Would he have accepted the inevitability of sacks and turnovers in exchange for a more explosive offense? I think some of the early games where the offense simply sputtered (especially vs. Rams, Cowboys), Phil would have excelled. And that’s the way to look at it: Game by game.

I’m biased, because I loved Simms so much; but I just don’t know that he would have made that big a difference. He did show, in the season finale, that he was still a top-tier QB. In his first few starts after coming off the bench, he was still shaking off rust.
I will say this much  
Greg from LI : 7/1/2020 2:37 pm : link
Anyone who's been here for any length of time knows what a Simms guy I am. Love the guy, believe he's the best Giants QB of all time. That said, it seems to me that some other Simms guys go overboard in their criticisms of Hostetler. Hoss wasn't Phil Simms, but he was a pretty good QB. Phil was the better QB but that doesn't mean Hostetler was bad.

In today's NFL, Hostetler would have left the Giants after his first contract and probably would have had a good shot at starting somewhere else while he was still in his prime. He was in his 30s by the time he got his first full-time starting job with the Raiders.
Love him or hate 'em  
gidiefor : Mod : 7/1/2020 9:48 pm : link
And I too loved Simms, but Hoss delivered at a critical time -- he's was a better QB then he is ever given credit for

Yes he had Parcells -- but he also delivered

kinda like Nick Foles did and Foles was rewarded handsomely for it while Hoss wasn't

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