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Giants and Pats D

Jay in Toronto : 6/30/2020 10:23 am
Duggan on The Athletic has an excellent player-by-player comparison.

Bottom line is the D Backfield has to show up big-time, which will be too much to expect this year.

This is a reversal on the typical 'adjust the scheme to fit the players' mantra and thus fans will have to be patient with reloading.

It's amazing how Bill works magic with other teams' role players and castoffs. I hope we have similar success with guys like Fackrell and future additions.

Excellent piece - check out The Athletic if not a subscriber.
Wouldn't you check it out if you *were* a subscriber?  
Bill L : 6/30/2020 10:26 am : link
I mean, if you weren't, then you couldn't.
Unfortunately  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/30/2020 10:36 am : link
I don't think the Athletic is doing well. I think they laid off a bunch of their staff recently.
I think we've got some really good talent in the secondary  
BillT : 6/30/2020 10:41 am : link
Sure, it will take some time to get it all sorted out but I'm really optimistic about this group.
RE: Wouldn't you check it out if you *were* a subscriber?  
Jay in Toronto : 6/30/2020 10:45 am : link
In comment 14926652 Bill L said:
Quote:
I mean, if you weren't, then you couldn't.


If you are not a subscriber there are free previews, trial subs etc. No excuse if you are sincere in checking it out.


An example - ( New Window )
RE: Unfortunately  
Jay in Toronto : 6/30/2020 10:46 am : link
In comment 14926657 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I don't think the Athletic is doing well. I think they laid off a bunch of their staff recently.


Yup -- they are not alone.

Really unfortunate in that it is easily thr best general sportswriting around.
I won't post their analysis but here are their raw numbers  
Giantsfan79 : 6/30/2020 10:48 am : link
Defensive End
2019 Patriots: Lawrence Guy (16 starts, 61 tackles, 5 TFL, 3 sacks, 66.7 PFF)
2020 Giants: Dexter Lawrence (16 starts, 38 tackles, 3 TFL, 2.5 sacks, 76.1 PFF)

Nose Tackle
2019 Patriots: Danny Shelton (14 starts, 61 tackles, 2 TFL, 3 sacks, 70.6 PFF)
2020 Giants: Dalvin Tomlinson (16 starts, 49 tackles, 7 TFL, 3.5 sacks, 78.1 PFF)

Defensive End
2019 Patriots: John Simon (13 starts, 44 tackles, 3 TFL, 4 sacks, 73.0 PFF)
2020 Giants: Leonard Williams (12 starts, 46 tackles, 2 TFL, 0.5 sacks, 70.6 PFF)

Outside Linebacker
2019 Patriots: Kyle Van Noy (15 starts, 56 tackles, 7 TFL, 6.5 sacks, 84.2 PFF)
2020 Giants: Kyler Fackrell (0 starts, 23 tackles, 2 TFL, 1 sack, 58.0 PFF)

Outside Linebacker
2019 Patriots: Jamie Collins (14 starts, 81 tackles, 10 TFL, 7 sacks, 72.3 PFF)
2020 Giants: Lorenzo Carter (12 starts, 45 tackles, 6 TFL, 4.5 sacks, 70.3 PFF)

Inside Linebacker
2019 Patriots: Dont’a Hightower (15 starts, 71 tackles, 8 TFL, 5.5 sacks, 71.3 PFF)
2020 Giants: Blake Martinez (16 starts, 155 tackles, 5 TFL, 3 sacks, 57.9 PFF)

Inside Linebacker
2019 Patriots: Ja’Whaun Bentley (2 starts, 44 tackles, 2 TFL, 0 sacks, 66.0 PFF)
2020 Giants: Ryan Connelly (3 starts, 20 tackles, 2 TFL, 1 sack, 57.1 PFF)

Cornerback
2019 Patriots: Stephon Gilmore (16 starts, 53 tackles, 6 INT, 20 PD, 82.7 PFF)
2020 Giants: James Bradberry (15 starts, 65 tackles, 3 INT, 12 PD, 61.7 PFF)

Cornerback
2019 Patriots: Jason McCourty (10 starts, 40 tackles, 1 INT, 6 PD, 74.4 PFF)
2020 Giants: DeAndre Baker (15 starts, 61 tackles, 0 INT, 8 PD, 48.4 PFF)

Slot Cornerback
2019 Patriots: Jonathan Jones (9 starts, 53 tackles, 0 INT, 8 PD, 73.6 PFF)
2020 Giants: Darnay Holmes (10 starts, 33 tackles, 2 INT, 6 PD, 61.3 PFF*)
* — College

Free Safety
2019 Patriots: Devin McCourty (16 starts, 58 tackles, 5 INT, 7 PD, 80.8 PFF)
2020 Giants: Xavier McKinney (13 starts, 95 tackles, 3 INT, 5 PD, 87.6 PFF*)
* — College

Strong Safety
2019 Patriots: Patrick Chung (12 starts, 51 tackles, 0 INT, 3 PD, 55.6 PFF)
2020 Giants: Jabrill Peppers (11 starts, 76 tackles, 1 INT, 5 PD, 66.6 PFF)
Belichick has been analyzing film since he was 7 years old,  
CT Charlie : 6/30/2020 11:27 am : link
with his father who literally wrote The Book on scouting other teams. So he is a genius at understanding how to attack his opponents' weaknesses and minimize their strengths. The stats of every player improve.
To me the biggest difference is this ...  
robbieballs2003 : 6/30/2020 12:54 pm : link
their DL and LBs get way more tackles whereas our safeties are making a bunch of tackles. That's a problem. Hopefully a better scheme will change that.
Gilmore and Devin McCourty  
mfsd : 6/30/2020 1:00 pm : link
are light years better than what we've had at CB and FS, that's a huge difference. Hopefully Bradbury proves on the level of a #1 type guy, and McKinney evolves, but that's a big if for a rookie
RE: Belichick has been analyzing film since he was 7 years old,  
larryflower37 : 6/30/2020 1:05 pm : link
In comment 14926710 CT Charlie said:
Quote:
with his father who literally wrote The Book on scouting other teams. So he is a genius at understanding how to attack his opponents' weaknesses and minimize their strengths. The stats of every player improve.


I think this is always the biggest gap when comparing any system to the Patriots.
his success is always been on having his team prepared to play and no surprises.
he puts his players in the best place to be successful going all the way back to his days with the Giants.
It's why his coaching tree can't match up to his performance.
Judge his learned it and is trying to build the same way but it's a huge stretch to actually duplicate it.
hopefully he can get his team prepared as Bill.
RE: I won't post their analysis but here are their raw numbers  
SGMen : 6/30/2020 1:10 pm : link
In comment 14926669 Giantsfan79 said:
Quote:
Defensive End
2019 Patriots: Lawrence Guy (16 starts, 61 tackles, 5 TFL, 3 sacks, 66.7 PFF)
2020 Giants: Dexter Lawrence (16 starts, 38 tackles, 3 TFL, 2.5 sacks, 76.1 PFF)

Nose Tackle
2019 Patriots: Danny Shelton (14 starts, 61 tackles, 2 TFL, 3 sacks, 70.6 PFF)
2020 Giants: Dalvin Tomlinson (16 starts, 49 tackles, 7 TFL, 3.5 sacks, 78.1 PFF)

Defensive End
2019 Patriots: John Simon (13 starts, 44 tackles, 3 TFL, 4 sacks, 73.0 PFF)
2020 Giants: Leonard Williams (12 starts, 46 tackles, 2 TFL, 0.5 sacks, 70.6 PFF)

Outside Linebacker
2019 Patriots: Kyle Van Noy (15 starts, 56 tackles, 7 TFL, 6.5 sacks, 84.2 PFF)
2020 Giants: Kyler Fackrell (0 starts, 23 tackles, 2 TFL, 1 sack, 58.0 PFF)

Outside Linebacker
2019 Patriots: Jamie Collins (14 starts, 81 tackles, 10 TFL, 7 sacks, 72.3 PFF)
2020 Giants: Lorenzo Carter (12 starts, 45 tackles, 6 TFL, 4.5 sacks, 70.3 PFF)

Inside Linebacker
2019 Patriots: Dont’a Hightower (15 starts, 71 tackles, 8 TFL, 5.5 sacks, 71.3 PFF)
2020 Giants: Blake Martinez (16 starts, 155 tackles, 5 TFL, 3 sacks, 57.9 PFF)

Inside Linebacker
2019 Patriots: Ja’Whaun Bentley (2 starts, 44 tackles, 2 TFL, 0 sacks, 66.0 PFF)
2020 Giants: Ryan Connelly (3 starts, 20 tackles, 2 TFL, 1 sack, 57.1 PFF)

Cornerback
2019 Patriots: Stephon Gilmore (16 starts, 53 tackles, 6 INT, 20 PD, 82.7 PFF)
2020 Giants: James Bradberry (15 starts, 65 tackles, 3 INT, 12 PD, 61.7 PFF)

Cornerback
2019 Patriots: Jason McCourty (10 starts, 40 tackles, 1 INT, 6 PD, 74.4 PFF)
2020 Giants: DeAndre Baker (15 starts, 61 tackles, 0 INT, 8 PD, 48.4 PFF)

Slot Cornerback
2019 Patriots: Jonathan Jones (9 starts, 53 tackles, 0 INT, 8 PD, 73.6 PFF)
2020 Giants: Darnay Holmes (10 starts, 33 tackles, 2 INT, 6 PD, 61.3 PFF*)
* — College

Free Safety
2019 Patriots: Devin McCourty (16 starts, 58 tackles, 5 INT, 7 PD, 80.8 PFF)
2020 Giants: Xavier McKinney (13 starts, 95 tackles, 3 INT, 5 PD, 87.6 PFF*)
* — College

Strong Safety
2019 Patriots: Patrick Chung (12 starts, 51 tackles, 0 INT, 3 PD, 55.6 PFF)
2020 Giants: Jabrill Peppers (11 starts, 76 tackles, 1 INT, 5 PD, 66.6 PFF)
Well, the Pats are talented in the defensive backfield especially. No question we have young talent that MUST step up. No question.

I see our LB's as "below average" even if Connelley rebounds from his ACL injury and becomes a top run stuffer and solid blitzer. I like Ryan Connelley a lot but he has a small window of play to consider so the jury is still out.

We signed Blake Martinez because of our Ogletree mistake. We, again, had no choice but to sign a veteran UFA for more than he is worth because he is a leader who will be the "signal caller" out there.
We signed Fackrell cause he is not expensive and he can likely play no worse than our young guys. He is just a stop-gap; however, perhaps he shows better than we've seen to date? There is hope...

I see our defense like this:

We likely get picked apart during our first four games simply because we are young; we have a new system with limited off-season to learn it; we have holes; and, we play four teams with returning coaching staffs and systems. WE WILL BE PICKED APART in spots by teams that see our weaknesses.

Then I see a shift. Our DL will be strong. Our LB's will be average at best after four games as Ximines, Carter, Connelley all improve and get in sync. But our DB's should really improve and our defense will begin to gel.

If we start 1-3 because of the defense we will get stronger for the final 12. However, we have a tough schedule (on paper right now....) and I'm banking on a 6-6 finish.

So as of today, perhaps we can go 7-9, give or take a game, as there is talent on both sides of the ball but also big holes (OL will still be below average; lack of regular pass rush; weak LB corps; and, lack of synchronicity due to new systems).

PS: the Leonard Williams trade will be worse than the Ogletree trade UNLESS Williams really puts it together in a way we have yet to see. Just made no sense to trade for him that late in the year with UFA pending. Just ridiculous.
RE: RE: Belichick has been analyzing film since he was 7 years old,  
jeffusedtobeonwebtv : 6/30/2020 2:19 pm : link
In comment 14926779 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
In comment 14926710 CT Charlie said:


Quote:


with his father who literally wrote The Book on scouting other teams. So he is a genius at understanding how to attack his opponents' weaknesses and minimize their strengths. The stats of every player improve.



I think this is always the biggest gap when comparing any system to the Patriots.
his success is always been on having his team prepared to play and no surprises.
he puts his players in the best place to be successful going all the way back to his days with the Giants.
It's why his coaching tree can't match up to his performance.
Judge his learned it and is trying to build the same way but it's a huge stretch to actually duplicate it.
hopefully he can get his team prepared as Bill.


Actually, one time he was surprised, when Miami first ran the wildcat offense against the Pats.
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