I like Lemiuex as a guard. I do.
But lots of questions as to how good he can be due to some of his physical limitations. Seubert was quick, well, Lemiuex maybe not so much.
had great seats through a friend, happened right in front of us. It was really scary, and still amazed he not only came back, but came back to be a bedrock of our 2007 SB team.
One of the best Giants ever. That’s a lofty comparison for Lemiuex, but nice to hear it.
played T in college.Seubert had played for a Mouse McNally acolyte and wrote a letter to Mouse. That got him a look, and the rest is Giant history. Diehl acrtually had the athletic profile of the OT's the Giants were drafting back then, and it used to drive a certain ex-poster crazy when I'd point that out. Of course he ended up playing more OT than OG. Rings,
had great seats through a friend, happened right in front of us. It was really scary, and still amazed he not only came back, but came back to be a bedrock of our 2007 SB team.
One of the best Giants ever. That’s a lofty comparison for Lemiuex, but nice to hear it.
If I recall correctly, it was a spiral fracture. At the time, many doubted he would be able to play again.
A good giant , a giant that co tributes mightily to a title. Not in the top 50 of greatest giants ever.
Best, as far as what he meant to the team. You’re right, not n the top tier of guys as far as talent, but ask anyone who played with him what he meant to them
A good giant , a giant that co tributes mightily to a title. Not in the top 50 of greatest giants ever.
Best, as far as what he meant to the team. You’re right, not n the top tier of guys as far as talent, but ask anyone who played with him what he meant to them
That whole OLine was tight. O'Hara had a very cool thing to say about Diehl not long ago, when he and DD were reviewing the OT prospects prior to the Giants drafting 2 of them in rounds 1 and 3 this year. O'Hara said DD "threw himself on the grenade" many times during their tenure together.
Meaning, I suppose, that Diehl three himself at very tough assignments (like playing OLT and blocking head on DeMarcus Ware, who ate DD for lunch time and time again) when one or another Giant OL sat out for injury reasons. DD played through some nasty injuries, too. A broken hand once, fingers too IIRC.
Seubert filled in very capable for O'Hara at OC when SOH went down too late in his career. I thought it was a mistake returning SOH as a starter too then, because Beatty and Boothe were getting it done on the left side when RS slid over to center.
The OL was noticeably weaker when SOH returned, pushing RS back to LG and Boothe to the bench.
Just my observations from back when.
Let's wait until Lemieux plays a few snaps before we decide who he
he proves to part of the solution and that is a cool tidbit Phil in La about RS.
Blue Lou; I loved TC as our Head Coach but I think he was too loyal to some of his vets (particularly OL) that he should have moved on from that contributed to the line falling apart.
he proves to part of the solution and that is a cool tidbit Phil in La about RS.
Blue Lou; I loved TC as our Head Coach but I think he was too loyal to some of his vets (particularly OL) that he should have moved on from that contributed to the line falling apart.
Who would he have put in though aside from the vets? James Brewer? Guy Whimper? The guys being drafted behind the vets were not good. The question is how much say did Coughlin have on some of those picks? A lot of us on here, including myself, blame a lot on Reese, but Ross and Coughlin I’m sure had some say on those picks.
I meant more that he was too loyal and not necessarily this one particular situation. Most of the Giants OL that was really good 2004-2010 started to show strong signs of breaking down. They all received big extensions/contracts where they probably would have been better off addressing this in the draft sooner.
he proves to part of the solution and that is a cool tidbit Phil in La about RS.
Blue Lou; I loved TC as our Head Coach but I think he was too loyal to some of his vets (particularly OL) that he should have moved on from that contributed to the line falling apart.
Coughlin was definitely loyal to a fault, to some of his players and especially his coaches, but I disagree with your assessment on the offensive line. Kevin gilbride has stated many times that around 2009 the coaches implored reese that the offensive line needed to be addressed. Reese made some bad moves (baas) and bad draft picks.
Coughlin had nowhere to go but to stick with his veterans, who else was he to replace them with?
Case in point is Flowers, I truly believe that reese refused to admit he made a mistake with him and refused to bring in anyone to replace him either through free agency or the draft. Year after year we were stuck with flowers at left tackle until gettleman finally released him.
I meant more that he was too loyal and not necessarily this one particular situation. Most of the Giants OL that was really good 2004-2010 started to show strong signs of breaking down. They all received big extensions/contracts where they probably would have been better off addressing this in the draft sooner.
Agree on them waiting too long to address the need via the draft. Reese and company always seemed to be focused on the year at hand vs a look into the future. The offensive line is a prime example of that. They were basically forced to take guys like Flowers and Pugh because they backed themselves into a corner and had no choice.
he proves to part of the solution and that is a cool tidbit Phil in La about RS.
Blue Lou; I loved TC as our Head Coach but I think he was too loyal to some of his vets (particularly OL) that he should have moved on from that contributed to the line falling apart.
Who would he have put in though aside from the vets? James Brewer? Guy Whimper? The guys being drafted behind the vets were not good. The question is how much say did Coughlin have on some of those picks? A lot of us on here, including myself, blame a lot on Reese, but Ross and Coughlin I’m sure had some say on those picks.
Simply not true. Dheil at one point at the end of his career was complete toast, he got injured and his backup (I want to say Andrews) came in and played significantly better. When Dheil was healthy he got inserted right back into the lineup because “Starters don’t loose jobs due to injury”.
I think this was the 2012 season and we probably lost a few games because of the move and it ended up we missed the playoffs and winning the NCF East title.
He really tried to push some high draft choices and even lower round draft picks he liked on the practice field into the starting lineup in quite a few cases. I could name plenty of examples if you like.
But at the same time, like many coaches, he HATED mental mistakes and was rather intolerant of guys that didn't master the playbook.
Shurmur was different in that regard, willing to roll with guys like DeAndre Baker who often looked like he didn't know the playbook at all! Shurmur believed in the theory, I suppose, that some players will only "get it" by having reps and making mistakes on the field of play.
Reese stuck with failed draft picks far, far too long, and stuck with Marc Ross when Ross was well beyond proven to be incompetent.
DG has a relatively easy opening trap door in the floor for players he acquired that blatantly don't work out.
Baas was a good center who was rarely injured - until he got here. If you could predict who would get a career ending injury, you’d get a job quickly in the front office.
With regard to Lemieux, I had the same thought regarding Seubert. For what this is worth, Pat Traina recently had a guest on her podcast who was an offensive line “expert”. He said something like Lemieux might
not be quick enough to play guard at the pro level. But, he’s very strong at the point of attack and has the nasty attitude in shooting out that you would want at center. Might explain why the Giants passed on centers in the draft especially the guy from Wisconsin.
this shit never dies. Oh! Coughlin had so many great players
This is the absolute best-case (Pie-in-the-sky) scenario for the Giants OL:
LT - Nate Solder (Big bounceback year)
LG - Will Hernandez (hits Pro Bowl level under Garrett/Colombo)
C - Shane Lemieux (everything is true and he's Seubert 2.0)
RG - Zeitler (rebounds to All Pro form)
RT - Andrew Thomas (as advertised)
If all of this happens, the Giants will have a decent OLine. They will not be a dominant group but they can be solid. The biggest problem with the above OL is having 2 rookie starters - including a C. That will ultimately limit how good they can be this year IMO.
wasn't thrilled with DD starting at OLT and tried to replace him whenever he felt someone else might be better there... Like Beatty.
He really didn't have a lot of options at LT. He even tried to push Whimper there I think.
No way. When Deihl was cooked whoever we had at swing tackle always played better then him when he was injured. Dheil would get healthy and automatically get plugged back in and look just as terrible as he did pre injury.
My wife still remembers me cursing about how bad he was in those seasons.
I love hopeful optimism, and in no way am I crapping all over this one, but wake me up when this guy makes a big block in PRACTICE, let alone a real game.
and it was the root of his issues here, but never forget his control of Vince Wolfork played a huge part in winning a SB. For that alone, worth the coin.
too. If memory serves, we talked about whether he would be able to walk without a limp again, let alone play. JonC has a better memory then I do about that stuff. Jon, how’s my recall this morning?
Richie had some unique short-area quickness that I’m not sure Lemieux has.
That deficiency, if indeed it is, probably why he lasted until the 5th. The ubiquitous 'one NFC East scout told us...' that his Combine numbers showed him lacking in the 3-cone and short shuttle, and his numbers were below comps.
I remember what Blue Lou was saying when O'Hara was re-inserted at C after his recovery from injury. Lots of us were saying, "don't move Seubert". But TC did, and I do recall the laments, OL play seemed to suffer for a number of games after O'Hara back in.
But (and I'm a broken record here) I was higher on Whimper than most, really good feet, slid well, Peart reminds me of him but is built more thickly than GW was. Whimper played well when inserted at T in the Wild Card Game at Tampa Bay. He was from a small school in the South (E Carolina?) and didn't seem to have the desire for the NFL grind.
I remember what Blue Lou was saying when O'Hara was re-inserted at C after his recovery from injury. Lots of us were saying, "don't move Seubert". But TC did, and I do recall the laments, OL play seemed to suffer for a number of games after O'Hara back in.
When O’Hara went down the line played significantly better when Seubert replaces him at center. O’Hara was clearly finished. One of TC’s biggest faults was sticking with veterans longer than he should have. Once O’Hara was inserted back into the starting lineup the entire line suffered.
I would like you to expand on that. What players Coughlin tried to get playing time for and what draft picks did Reese hold on to for far too long.
Not singling out you, but i read that a lot, just like saying Reese doesn't cut bait, and people forget that he traded Shockey after paying him..
OL Reese drafted or traded for or signed that were on the team for too long in the hope they would "develop" into something more than the "no count schlubs" they were.
Worst examples first...
T James Brewer
T Brandon Mosely
T Guy Whimper
OC Adam Koets
OG John Jerry
OG Mitch Petrus
Other position players who similarly stunk and were retained in false hope of their "potential" (not in any order):
I would like you to expand on that. What players Coughlin tried to get playing time for and what draft picks did Reese hold on to for far too long.
Not singling out you, but i read that a lot, just like saying Reese doesn't cut bait, and people forget that he traded Shockey after paying him..
OL Reese drafted or traded for or signed that were on the team for too long in the hope they would "develop" into something more than the "no count schlubs" they were.
Worst examples first...
T James Brewer
T Brandon Mosely
T Guy Whimper
OC Adam Koets
OG John Jerry
OG Mitch Petrus
Other position players who similarly stunk and were retained in false hope of their "potential" (not in any order):
Seubert was an excellent athlete before the awful injury sustained against the cheap-shot Eagles. Lemieux is strong -no question . But he’s mechanical in his movements . Even the post-injury Seubert moved much better .
But, Lemieux is coming in with a much better pedigree to start. So, if it is work ethic and attitude that is reminding people of Seubert, we are really ahead of gthe game.
The notion that we ignored the OL in the draft is wrong
3 years in a row we spent high picks on OL in Richburg, Pugh, and Flowers. None of them came close to living up to their expectations. When you couple that with even more disastrous FA signings, you have one of the worst OLs in the league about 5 years running.
RE: The notion that we ignored the OL in the draft is wrong
3 years in a row we spent high picks on OL in Richburg, Pugh, and Flowers. None of them came close to living up to their expectations. When you couple that with even more disastrous FA signings, you have one of the worst OLs in the league about 5 years running.
You are ignoring the history prior to reaching for Pugh at 19 overall in 2013, from the 2004 drafting of Snee at 34th overall, the Giants didn't draft a single top 50 OL over an 8 year span, and only one top 100 draftee, Will Beatty at 60 in 2009. The Giants did draft several mid round prospects during those 8 years, guys drafted from slots 100-150, but none of those guys panned out. And some of them plain old stunk: Whimper, Brewer, Petrus, Mosley.
So by the time they even started the 3 year run that began with Pugh, their OL was a shambles pretty much top to bottom.
It was a historically low dedication of draft resources to OL, while Reese and Co. loaded up on offensive skills positions.
I did numbers on this years ago, we definitely under-drafted OL compared to other successful teams like the Steelers and Ravens.
RE: RE: The notion that we ignored the OL in the draft is wrong
3 years in a row we spent high picks on OL in Richburg, Pugh, and Flowers. None of them came close to living up to their expectations. When you couple that with even more disastrous FA signings, you have one of the worst OLs in the league about 5 years running.
You are ignoring the history prior to reaching for Pugh at 19 overall in 2013, from the 2004 drafting of Snee at 34th overall, the Giants didn't draft a single top 50 OL over an 8 year span, and only one top 100 draftee, Will Beatty at 60 in 2009. The Giants did draft several mid round prospects during those 8 years, guys drafted from slots 100-150, but none of those guys panned out. And some of them plain old stunk: Whimper, Brewer, Petrus, Mosley.
So by the time they even started the 3 year run that began with Pugh, their OL was a shambles pretty much top to bottom.
It was a historically low dedication of draft resources to OL, while Reese and Co. loaded up on offensive skills positions.
I did numbers on this years ago, we definitely under-drafted OL compared to other successful teams like the Steelers and Ravens.
3 years in a row we spent high picks on OL in Richburg, Pugh, and Flowers. None of them came close to living up to their expectations. When you couple that with even more disastrous FA signings, you have one of the worst OLs in the league about 5 years running.
You are ignoring the history prior to reaching for Pugh at 19 overall in 2013, from the 2004 drafting of Snee at 34th overall, the Giants didn't draft a single top 50 OL over an 8 year span, and only one top 100 draftee, Will Beatty at 60 in 2009. The Giants did draft several mid round prospects during those 8 years, guys drafted from slots 100-150, but none of those guys panned out. And some of them plain old stunk: Whimper, Brewer, Petrus, Mosley.
So by the time they even started the 3 year run that began with Pugh, their OL was a shambles pretty much top to bottom.
It was a historically low dedication of draft resources to OL, while Reese and Co. loaded up on offensive skills positions.
I did numbers on this years ago, we definitely under-drafted OL compared to other successful teams like the Steelers and Ravens.
Good post Lou, this is exactly right.
Beatty was drafted fairly high in 2009, and then the Giants invested basically nothing from the draft on OL for several years when they really had to do so. Our starters were breaking down and doing it fast but Giants had no quality to replace them.
So then they panicked after a few bad years and used very high picks on Pugh, Flowers and Richburg in successive drafts but really none of them performed at the level needed as we know.
Add in fact that free agents OL brought in were fairly worthless and that sums up how this franchise wasted the last decade.
That a croos between Accorsi and Reese. Adn if I'm not mistaken, almost all the high picks from that range had some pretty significant roles during the SB runs
But lots of questions as to how good he can be due to some of his physical limitations. Seubert was quick, well, Lemiuex maybe not so much.
He’s my favorite Giants offensive linemen.
Rich Seubert was thrilled when he won the award. He told me at the ceremony that he and his dad read the site.
The thing I like the most about Lemiuex is he played a lot and produced! Yes, production. He fell ONLY because his combine numbers were unspectacular.
One of the best Giants ever. That’s a lofty comparison for Lemiuex, but nice to hear it.
One of the best Giants ever. That’s a lofty comparison for Lemiuex, but nice to hear it.
If I recall correctly, it was a spiral fracture. At the time, many doubted he would be able to play again.
Best, as far as what he meant to the team. You’re right, not n the top tier of guys as far as talent, but ask anyone who played with him what he meant to them
Quote:
A good giant , a giant that co tributes mightily to a title. Not in the top 50 of greatest giants ever.
Best, as far as what he meant to the team. You’re right, not n the top tier of guys as far as talent, but ask anyone who played with him what he meant to them
That whole OLine was tight. O'Hara had a very cool thing to say about Diehl not long ago, when he and DD were reviewing the OT prospects prior to the Giants drafting 2 of them in rounds 1 and 3 this year. O'Hara said DD "threw himself on the grenade" many times during their tenure together.
Meaning, I suppose, that Diehl three himself at very tough assignments (like playing OLT and blocking head on DeMarcus Ware, who ate DD for lunch time and time again) when one or another Giant OL sat out for injury reasons. DD played through some nasty injuries, too. A broken hand once, fingers too IIRC.
Seubert filled in very capable for O'Hara at OC when SOH went down too late in his career. I thought it was a mistake returning SOH as a starter too then, because Beatty and Boothe were getting it done on the left side when RS slid over to center.
The OL was noticeably weaker when SOH returned, pushing RS back to LG and Boothe to the bench.
Just my observations from back when.
Blue Lou; I loved TC as our Head Coach but I think he was too loyal to some of his vets (particularly OL) that he should have moved on from that contributed to the line falling apart.
Blue Lou; I loved TC as our Head Coach but I think he was too loyal to some of his vets (particularly OL) that he should have moved on from that contributed to the line falling apart.
Who would he have put in though aside from the vets? James Brewer? Guy Whimper? The guys being drafted behind the vets were not good. The question is how much say did Coughlin have on some of those picks? A lot of us on here, including myself, blame a lot on Reese, but Ross and Coughlin I’m sure had some say on those picks.
Blue Lou; I loved TC as our Head Coach but I think he was too loyal to some of his vets (particularly OL) that he should have moved on from that contributed to the line falling apart.
Coughlin was definitely loyal to a fault, to some of his players and especially his coaches, but I disagree with your assessment on the offensive line. Kevin gilbride has stated many times that around 2009 the coaches implored reese that the offensive line needed to be addressed. Reese made some bad moves (baas) and bad draft picks.
Coughlin had nowhere to go but to stick with his veterans, who else was he to replace them with?
Case in point is Flowers, I truly believe that reese refused to admit he made a mistake with him and refused to bring in anyone to replace him either through free agency or the draft. Year after year we were stuck with flowers at left tackle until gettleman finally released him.
Agree on them waiting too long to address the need via the draft. Reese and company always seemed to be focused on the year at hand vs a look into the future. The offensive line is a prime example of that. They were basically forced to take guys like Flowers and Pugh because they backed themselves into a corner and had no choice.
Quote:
but I love/loved Richie Seubert -- and was ecstatic when we picked him for BBI Player of the year
Rich Seubert was thrilled when he won the award. He told me at the ceremony that he and his dad read the site.
Eric, were you the one who edited the Awards section of his Wikipedia entry?
LINK - ( New Window )
Quote:
he proves to part of the solution and that is a cool tidbit Phil in La about RS.
Blue Lou; I loved TC as our Head Coach but I think he was too loyal to some of his vets (particularly OL) that he should have moved on from that contributed to the line falling apart.
Who would he have put in though aside from the vets? James Brewer? Guy Whimper? The guys being drafted behind the vets were not good. The question is how much say did Coughlin have on some of those picks? A lot of us on here, including myself, blame a lot on Reese, but Ross and Coughlin I’m sure had some say on those picks.
Simply not true. Dheil at one point at the end of his career was complete toast, he got injured and his backup (I want to say Andrews) came in and played significantly better. When Dheil was healthy he got inserted right back into the lineup because “Starters don’t loose jobs due to injury”.
I think this was the 2012 season and we probably lost a few games because of the move and it ended up we missed the playoffs and winning the NCF East title.
But at the same time, like many coaches, he HATED mental mistakes and was rather intolerant of guys that didn't master the playbook.
Shurmur was different in that regard, willing to roll with guys like DeAndre Baker who often looked like he didn't know the playbook at all! Shurmur believed in the theory, I suppose, that some players will only "get it" by having reps and making mistakes on the field of play.
Reese stuck with failed draft picks far, far too long, and stuck with Marc Ross when Ross was well beyond proven to be incompetent.
DG has a relatively easy opening trap door in the floor for players he acquired that blatantly don't work out.
He really didn't have a lot of options at LT. He even tried to push Whimper there I think.
Not singling out you, but i read that a lot, just like saying Reese doesn't cut bait, and people forget that he traded Shockey after paying him..
With regard to Lemieux, I had the same thought regarding Seubert. For what this is worth, Pat Traina recently had a guest on her podcast who was an offensive line “expert”. He said something like Lemieux might
not be quick enough to play guard at the pro level. But, he’s very strong at the point of attack and has the nasty attitude in shooting out that you would want at center. Might explain why the Giants passed on centers in the draft especially the guy from Wisconsin.
Yeah right. Coaches are willing to lose all the time just to be loyal to vets with rings.
LT - Nate Solder (Big bounceback year)
LG - Will Hernandez (hits Pro Bowl level under Garrett/Colombo)
C - Shane Lemieux (everything is true and he's Seubert 2.0)
RG - Zeitler (rebounds to All Pro form)
RT - Andrew Thomas (as advertised)
If all of this happens, the Giants will have a decent OLine. They will not be a dominant group but they can be solid. The biggest problem with the above OL is having 2 rookie starters - including a C. That will ultimately limit how good they can be this year IMO.
He really didn't have a lot of options at LT. He even tried to push Whimper there I think.
No way. When Deihl was cooked whoever we had at swing tackle always played better then him when he was injured. Dheil would get healthy and automatically get plugged back in and look just as terrible as he did pre injury.
My wife still remembers me cursing about how bad he was in those seasons.
Seubert? Let's slow this one down just a bit.
LOL...that's cool.
I remember what Blue Lou was saying when O'Hara was re-inserted at C after his recovery from injury. Lots of us were saying, "don't move Seubert". But TC did, and I do recall the laments, OL play seemed to suffer for a number of games after O'Hara back in.
But (and I'm a broken record here) I was higher on Whimper than most, really good feet, slid well, Peart reminds me of him but is built more thickly than GW was. Whimper played well when inserted at T in the Wild Card Game at Tampa Bay. He was from a small school in the South (E Carolina?) and didn't seem to have the desire for the NFL grind.
His comeback from that injury was one of the most inspiring comebacks in sports.
I remember what Blue Lou was saying when O'Hara was re-inserted at C after his recovery from injury. Lots of us were saying, "don't move Seubert". But TC did, and I do recall the laments, OL play seemed to suffer for a number of games after O'Hara back in.
When O’Hara went down the line played significantly better when Seubert replaces him at center. O’Hara was clearly finished. One of TC’s biggest faults was sticking with veterans longer than he should have. Once O’Hara was inserted back into the starting lineup the entire line suffered.
Not singling out you, but i read that a lot, just like saying Reese doesn't cut bait, and people forget that he traded Shockey after paying him..
OL Reese drafted or traded for or signed that were on the team for too long in the hope they would "develop" into something more than the "no count schlubs" they were.
Worst examples first...
T James Brewer
T Brandon Mosely
T Guy Whimper
OC Adam Koets
OG John Jerry
OG Mitch Petrus
Other position players who similarly stunk and were retained in false hope of their "potential" (not in any order):
Reuben Randle, Jerrel Jernigan, Travis Beckum, Ramses Barden, Jayron Hosley, Bryan Kehl.
Quote:
I would like you to expand on that. What players Coughlin tried to get playing time for and what draft picks did Reese hold on to for far too long.
Not singling out you, but i read that a lot, just like saying Reese doesn't cut bait, and people forget that he traded Shockey after paying him..
OL Reese drafted or traded for or signed that were on the team for too long in the hope they would "develop" into something more than the "no count schlubs" they were.
Worst examples first...
T James Brewer
T Brandon Mosely
T Guy Whimper
OC Adam Koets
OG John Jerry
OG Mitch Petrus
Other position players who similarly stunk and were retained in false hope of their "potential" (not in any order):
Reuben Randle, Jerrel Jernigan, Travis Beckum, Ramses Barden, Jayron Hosley, Bryan Kehl.
Travis Beckum played during the 2011 Super Bowl Run.
You are ignoring the history prior to reaching for Pugh at 19 overall in 2013, from the 2004 drafting of Snee at 34th overall, the Giants didn't draft a single top 50 OL over an 8 year span, and only one top 100 draftee, Will Beatty at 60 in 2009. The Giants did draft several mid round prospects during those 8 years, guys drafted from slots 100-150, but none of those guys panned out. And some of them plain old stunk: Whimper, Brewer, Petrus, Mosley.
So by the time they even started the 3 year run that began with Pugh, their OL was a shambles pretty much top to bottom.
It was a historically low dedication of draft resources to OL, while Reese and Co. loaded up on offensive skills positions.
I did numbers on this years ago, we definitely under-drafted OL compared to other successful teams like the Steelers and Ravens.
Quote:
3 years in a row we spent high picks on OL in Richburg, Pugh, and Flowers. None of them came close to living up to their expectations. When you couple that with even more disastrous FA signings, you have one of the worst OLs in the league about 5 years running.
You are ignoring the history prior to reaching for Pugh at 19 overall in 2013, from the 2004 drafting of Snee at 34th overall, the Giants didn't draft a single top 50 OL over an 8 year span, and only one top 100 draftee, Will Beatty at 60 in 2009. The Giants did draft several mid round prospects during those 8 years, guys drafted from slots 100-150, but none of those guys panned out. And some of them plain old stunk: Whimper, Brewer, Petrus, Mosley.
So by the time they even started the 3 year run that began with Pugh, their OL was a shambles pretty much top to bottom.
It was a historically low dedication of draft resources to OL, while Reese and Co. loaded up on offensive skills positions.
I did numbers on this years ago, we definitely under-drafted OL compared to other successful teams like the Steelers and Ravens.
So I am not understanding what you mean by the held on to tghem too long.
Quote:
3 years in a row we spent high picks on OL in Richburg, Pugh, and Flowers. None of them came close to living up to their expectations. When you couple that with even more disastrous FA signings, you have one of the worst OLs in the league about 5 years running.
You are ignoring the history prior to reaching for Pugh at 19 overall in 2013, from the 2004 drafting of Snee at 34th overall, the Giants didn't draft a single top 50 OL over an 8 year span, and only one top 100 draftee, Will Beatty at 60 in 2009. The Giants did draft several mid round prospects during those 8 years, guys drafted from slots 100-150, but none of those guys panned out. And some of them plain old stunk: Whimper, Brewer, Petrus, Mosley.
So by the time they even started the 3 year run that began with Pugh, their OL was a shambles pretty much top to bottom.
It was a historically low dedication of draft resources to OL, while Reese and Co. loaded up on offensive skills positions.
I did numbers on this years ago, we definitely under-drafted OL compared to other successful teams like the Steelers and Ravens.
Good post Lou, this is exactly right.
Beatty was drafted fairly high in 2009, and then the Giants invested basically nothing from the draft on OL for several years when they really had to do so. Our starters were breaking down and doing it fast but Giants had no quality to replace them.
So then they panicked after a few bad years and used very high picks on Pugh, Flowers and Richburg in successive drafts but really none of them performed at the level needed as we know.
Add in fact that free agents OL brought in were fairly worthless and that sums up how this franchise wasted the last decade.