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NFT: Mortgage rates hit new low: time to refinance???

Milton : 7/2/2020 7:13 pm
Please excuse my complete ignorance on this subject (it's quite sad considering I have a B.S. in Economics (and in my case, the B.S. most definitely stands for bullshit)).

Last year my main squeeze and I bought a house (we closed in August). I have a poor credit rating and hers is very good/excellent, so the loan (and the house) is in her name and the mortgage rate was 4%. With the average down to 3.07% (it was apparently 3.75% around the time we were approved last year), is it worth it to refinance?

p.s.--I'm not sure if this is relevant (because, as I said, I'm an ignorant slob), but the original loan was a "first time buyer" loan and our downpayment was well below the 20% threshold (so it includes one of those loans on top of loans thingies, I forget what they call it). In addition, she had only been two years on the job when approved for original loand and so now it's three years at her current job and she received a small pay raise since. Also, her job is unaffected by the virus. Just the opposite, it improved business for her employer.
Mortgage rates hit another record low (from CNN-Business) - ( New Window )
I just refinanced from 4% to 2.95%  
Ben in Tampa : 7/2/2020 7:20 pm : link
I’m very pleased
Unless you have excellent credit  
UConn4523 : 7/2/2020 7:35 pm : link
you won’t get those rates. So if you can’t put it solely in her name there’s likely no point. Saving a half a point isn’t worth it either.
RE: I just refinanced from 4% to 2.95%  
Milton : 7/2/2020 7:35 pm : link
In comment 14928130 Ben in Tampa said:
Quote:
I’m very pleased
How long ago was the original loan and did you refinance with another bank or the same bank? Again, pardon my ignorance on the subject. Not sure if these questions are relevant in terms of the arithmetic.
RE: Unless you have excellent credit  
Milton : 7/2/2020 7:35 pm : link
In comment 14928138 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
you won’t get those rates. So if you can’t put it solely in her name there’s likely no point. Saving a half a point isn’t worth it either.
It would all be in her name like the original loan.
Just contact your lender and ask  
UConn4523 : 7/2/2020 7:39 pm : link
and shop other lenders. But the advertised rates are rarely what you get anyway - I bet you’d get around 3.25% as the lowest and that’s a coin toss on whether that’s worth doing ($5k+ in fees typically).

We refinanced earlier in the year because we were on a higher interest construction loan so it made sense.
What city are you in  
UConn4523 : 7/2/2020 7:41 pm : link
?
I just went through costco  
oghwga : 7/2/2020 7:50 pm : link
2.95% and no fees. Did it all online they finalized it with a 10 minute home visit from a notary and we signed the final papers. No fees no closing costs no points. Our credit is perfect though and we have 40% down. But if you're a Costco executive member it's really easy.
RE: What city are you in  
Milton : 7/2/2020 8:06 pm : link
In comment 14928143 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
?
Pittsfield, Massachusetts.
got me a 2.95 fixed for 400k  
Payasdaddy : 7/2/2020 8:15 pm : link
closing costs around 1%
down from a 3.875 fixed
only gonna be in house 10 more yrs, probably 20k total savings after reduced tax benefit (less mortgage int deduction)
but lowered our payment $650
thought it was a good idea in a covid world, not a bad idea to have more free cash flow
Just got 2.75  
mdthedream : 7/2/2020 8:45 pm : link
15 year mortgage. Very happy plan on paying off house in 11 years.
I am  
mdthedream : 7/2/2020 8:46 pm : link
from RI.
RE: got me a 2.95 fixed for 400k  
jimvinct : 7/2/2020 9:52 pm : link
In comment 14928164 Payasdaddy said:
Quote:
closing costs around 1%
down from a 3.875 fixed
only gonna be in house 10 more yrs, probably 20k total savings after reduced tax benefit (less mortgage int deduction)
but lowered our payment $650
thought it was a good idea in a covid world, not a bad idea to have more free cash flow


I didn't think there was a tax benefit for mortgage interest anymore. I took out my mortgage in 2015 at 4.25% with lender paid PMI to take advantage of the mortgage interest deduction rather than 4% and paying PMI which was available at the time. I wouldn't have been able to deduct PMI so I opted for the higher rate.

Last month I refinanced the 30 year to a 20 at 2.85%. Thankfully it was timed perfectly, but it appears to be going lower again. It will be interesting to see where everything ends up.
Mortgage interest is still deductible if you itemize  
Jim in Fairfax : 7/2/2020 10:14 pm : link
But the standard deduction is higher so itemizing makes sense for fewer households.
State and local taxes (salt) limited to 10k  
Payasdaddy : 7/2/2020 11:49 pm : link
Mortgage still fully deductible
But I am real close to standard deduction at this point
Will really have to pad the charitable contributions to like 3-4 % of agi
Was already factored in my refinancing calculation
Would’ve been at same point in 5 yrs if I didn’t refi
One thing I hated is I voted republican and they raised my taxes with salt tax limitation
Never had that happen before ( not politics. Just an observation)
It is very simple Milton  
Marty in Albany : 7/3/2020 12:00 am : link
Call your bank and ask what the new monthly payment will be.

There will be processing charges for the new loan that may amount to several thousand dollars. If the bank agrees to include those charges as part of your new loan you will have an accurate idea of how much your new payment will save per year.

You are probably not going to live in the house for another 30 years, so those extra charges aren't that significant anyway.
Milton  
johnnyb : 7/3/2020 7:02 am : link
my suggestion would be to seek the advice of a mortgage broker, not a bank. A reputable mortgage broker will analyze your situation and recommend what is best. With rates where they are now, you should be able to lower your rate quite a bit. And because you are only in the loan for a short time, it is to your advantage to explore the opportunity.
Milton, do you still live in NY State? If so don't forget about  
Victor in CT : 7/3/2020 7:04 am : link
the mortgage recording tax. It could easily kill any benefit you may get from refinancing. It's why MBS pools backed by NY State loans trade at a premium. The tax causes NY loans to prepay at a much lower rate than average.

NY State imposes a 0.5% recording tax on all new mortgages inclduing refis. If you are in NYC, it's 1.8%.

Good luck in any case. 4.0% is still a pretty good rate.
RE: Milton, do you still live in NY State? If so don't forget about  
Mike in NY : 7/3/2020 7:23 am : link
In comment 14928245 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
the mortgage recording tax. It could easily kill any benefit you may get from refinancing. It's why MBS pools backed by NY State loans trade at a premium. The tax causes NY loans to prepay at a much lower rate than average.

NY State imposes a 0.5% recording tax on all new mortgages inclduing refis. If you are in NYC, it's 1.8%.

Good luck in any case. 4.0% is still a pretty good rate.


If you do it as a CEMA you are exempt from the mortgage recording tax on the amount of the principal of your current mortgage.
RE: RE: Milton, do you still live in NY State? If so don't forget about  
Victor in CT : 7/3/2020 7:46 am : link
In comment 14928251 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 14928245 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


the mortgage recording tax. It could easily kill any benefit you may get from refinancing. It's why MBS pools backed by NY State loans trade at a premium. The tax causes NY loans to prepay at a much lower rate than average.

NY State imposes a 0.5% recording tax on all new mortgages inclduing refis. If you are in NYC, it's 1.8%.

Good luck in any case. 4.0% is still a pretty good rate.



If you do it as a CEMA you are exempt from the mortgage recording tax on the amount of the principal of your current mortgage.


good point, but there are stips and possibility of other, though lesser fees. CEMA is most effective if the refi is done with the same lender.
Thanks for the advice, much to chew on....  
Milton : 7/3/2020 10:48 am : link
p.s.--I'm in Massachusetts.
Yes  
OC2.0 : 7/3/2020 4:44 pm : link
We’re doing it. The rates have pretty much bottomed out from what I was told.
RE: Thanks for the advice, much to chew on....  
EricJ : 7/3/2020 8:18 pm : link
In comment 14928314 Milton said:
Quote:
p.s.--I'm in Massachusetts.


It is really simple math...
Determine the cost of the refinance. Divide that by the monthly payment savings. See how many months it takes to break even. Then, ask yourself if you plan on living there that long

Remember to ask the lender about buying the rate down. This is something that may make sense if you plan on living in the home for a long time.
Always do your math after tax  
MetsAreBack : 7/3/2020 11:38 pm : link
If you bought your house before 2017, you can deduct $1 million principal of interest payments. If after that it’s still 750k.

Keep in mind depending on your income level that mortgage interest can be a valuable source of itemized deductions so in a lot of ways a 30
Year gives you more flexibility than a 15 year which amortizes more quickly
than lots of people might want.

We’d need a ton more personal details on this than you should be willing to share on this thread to make the right call. Talk to a mortgage banker. As others have said a
4% loan isn’t terrible as is - if you were at 5%+ I wouldn’t need details but you’re in a grey area.
Refinanced a few months ago  
gmenrule : 7/4/2020 11:57 am : link
Went from a 25 year fixed at 3.99 % (about 20 years were left) to a 15 year at 2.75%. If I add an additional $780 per month to the principal - it has me paying off loan in 10 years. Amount financed was about $313K since I put all costs into the mortgage payments. Previous and new mortgage is through Quicken Loans. Will save a ton on interest. In general, anytime you can save at least 1% on the rate - you do it ! This is my last refinance and I will try and pay off in 7-8 years.
We are now in an area where...  
EricJ : 7/4/2020 12:10 pm : link
it could make sense to do a cash out refinance to invest the money in other areas.

The wife and I are looking at properties in FL. I am in a unique situation with various business arrangements with lenders to potentially get a rate well below 2%....maybe even below 1%
Like was mentioned above  
Bill in Del : 7/4/2020 9:06 pm : link
If you can refi and drop by a point, it's usually a good idea. I just refi'd as well, I had 20 years left on my 30 and refi'd to a 15. I went down a full point to 2.75 and will save a bunch in interest especially after I pay off in 10.
Is there a limit to how many times  
Matt M. : 7/4/2020 10:42 pm : link
you can refinance or a period you must wait? I ask becase we refinanced in January for what was a much lower rate for us at 3.75%. So, we are only a few months shy of 30 years. Even if we got a rate of half a point lower, we would save a few hundred a month. If we could actually get a rate below 3% we could save I think $500+ per month, or potentially just do a 20 year mortgage (although that would be increasing our monthly nut slightly).
Worth It?  
Percy : 7/4/2020 11:39 pm : link
Probably not after taking fees, etc. into account. It's your APR that counts.
Checking the ACTUAL credit score lenders will use...  
Jooch : 7/5/2020 10:32 am : link
Is there some secret to this? Through my credit cards I get a FICO score of 800-815 consistently, and through creditkarma I consistently show from Equifax and Transunion that I'm 800-815 consistently with both those as well. Yet when I got my auto loan 2 years ago they came up with a 740 or so and it did slightly affect the interest rate that I got. So what would be the cause of such a BIG discrepency in score? I fail to see how I could be showing 800-815 on FICO and Equifax and Transunion and then all of a sudden drop by close to 100 points...I'd like to look into refinancing my house as well but I'm weary about doing that now because I'm concerned about the same thing happening with my credit check on the home refi...any suggestions?
RE: Checking the ACTUAL credit score lenders will use...  
EricJ : 7/5/2020 11:36 am : link
In comment 14928997 Jooch said:
Quote:
Is there some secret to this? Through my credit cards I get a FICO score of 800-815 consistently, and through creditkarma I consistently show from Equifax and Transunion that I'm 800-815 consistently with both those as well. Yet when I got my auto loan 2 years ago they came up with a 740 or so and it did slightly affect the interest rate that I got. So what would be the cause of such a BIG discrepency in score? I fail to see how I could be showing 800-815 on FICO and Equifax and Transunion and then all of a sudden drop by close to 100 points...I'd like to look into refinancing my house as well but I'm weary about doing that now because I'm concerned about the same thing happening with my credit check on the home refi...any suggestions?


First, if your score is over 720... then you are going to get the same rate (all other things being equal) that you would with a score of over 800. Most lenders rate sheets stop adding value beyond a score of 720.

Regarding the drop in your score, it is possible that when it was pulled the second time that your credit utilization was higher. Meaning, your credit card balances potentially higher and closer to your credit limit vs when your score was over 800. Credit utilization is a significant factor when it comes to credit scores.
I don't have the exact numbers, but...  
Jooch : 7/5/2020 5:28 pm : link
I doubt my credit balances vs limits were varied by that much. I make a habit of paying the balances off in full as soon as I get my statement. That's one of the reasons my scores are high in the first place as I understand it. So if I'm understanding your explanation correctly of credit utilization...I still don't see how the score could vary by THAT much if the balances vs. limits at the time I got my auto loan were at best within $100 of each other from when I checked all the scores to when the lender checked them to actually approve my loan.
You can have the web do the calculation for you  
GeofromNJ : 7/5/2020 5:42 pm : link
See how much less you might pay each month by refinancing.

MORTGAGE REFINANCE CALCULATOR - ( New Window )
I could be wrong it was a couple years ago....  
Jooch : 7/5/2020 5:46 pm : link
And I'm not a credit expert (hence why I'm asking). But I was told when I began researching lenders that I'd need a score of 800 most likely to qualify for the 2.9% rate they were advertising...so with that said I thought I'd get it because at the time my scores were in the 800s...and then they come up with the 740 and a 3.25% was the best rate I could get. In the end I wasn't too upset because it was still a good rate, but I was still a bit baffled at how I could have been looking at FICO scores and scores from 2 of the 3 major credit bureaus all over 800 and then all of a sudden poof, 740.
Is there any calculator that might take into account your...  
Jooch : 7/5/2020 5:53 pm : link
Escrow account and what you pay on homeowner's insurance and estimated property taxes if you have those numbers? I'd like to get a rough estimate on my TOTAL mortgage payment.
RE: I could be wrong it was a couple years ago....  
EricJ : 7/5/2020 6:46 pm : link
In comment 14929097 Jooch said:
Quote:
And I'm not a credit expert (hence why I'm asking). But I was told when I began researching lenders that I'd need a score of 800 most likely to qualify for the 2.9% rate they were advertising...so with that said I thought I'd get it because at the time my scores were in the 800s...and then they come up with the 740 and a 3.25% was the best rate I could get. In the end I wasn't too upset because it was still a good rate, but I was still a bit baffled at how I could have been looking at FICO scores and scores from 2 of the 3 major credit bureaus all over 800 and then all of a sudden poof, 740.


Nothing is impossible and not saying that lender did a bait and switch on you.... but in the past 20 years I have never seen a lender rate sheet that had rate adjustments for credit scores that high.
Great thread  
Giantimistic : 7/6/2020 7:25 pm : link
I started the refinance process. Will be able to take my 3.5 percent on a 30 down to under 2.5 percent on a 15. Will pay the same monthly amount payment and cut 10 years off my loan. Should cost me about 3 or four thousand to make the change.

Still working on the details. Deciding if I want to take a big chin I out of the principal as well.

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