Just think of all the new gear all the fans will have to buy once they change the name and logo!$!$!$!$!$!$ No need to give a shit here or solve any native American problems that exist. More importantly, he can virtue signal with a heartfelt press conference. It will be a bonanza and the fans will buy into it (and buy the new gear). He was in the marketing business. Things are looking up for ol' Dan.
And even better all these hedge funds and investment managers can take credit for their social consciousness without having to hire one more minority, elevate anyone to the executive suite or invest another dollar In a minority community or ten cents in a reservation that doesn’t have a casino monopoly.
Of course Snyder will change the name. It costs him nothing, he will have a merch bonanza, he can still run his business exactly as he wishes and the very easily distracted will move on to another meaningless “offensive objectification”. Personally, I suggest Mario, Luigi and their offensive accents.
Or what you said.
Upon further thought, I do wish this would happen.
The name of the Washington NFL team is literally a slur against Native Americans. Eventually, it's going to have to change.
The best time to change the name is ten years ago, but the second best time is right now. If Snyder is smart, he'll get out in front of this, own it and turn it into a positive.
Much better to do that than be dragged, kicking and screaming, into the 21st century.
That makes them look bad, so I hope this drags out and hurts the franchise.
In all seriousness, it would be really easy for them to just take the Red out of their name and go with just the Skins. Its what everyone refers to them as anyway and it could also refer to hogskins or, more relevant to football, the pigskins.
Wouldn’t surprise me if he changed it to something more racist just out of spite.
I think he’s operated that way for a while but I’m guessing the NFL is putting the full court press on him right now and I’m not sure what the repercussions will be if he doesn’t agree to change. He’s at the end of his leash.
is to let each team negotiate contacts with clothing companies to make their gear. This one for all is BS. Now you have Nike holding the whole organization hostage. Watch how quick Nike would shut their mouth!
but it is fucking stupid. Sorry if that hurts any of the snowflakes feelings on this thread.
Agreed. Are we going to have to rename our team because we offend tall people? I don’t think the team name is meant to be racist, but if people are that upset about it fine. When I watch historic films I honestly don’t recall anyone using the term “redskin” toward Native Americans. They use other terms I’m not going to write because they are wrong, but I don’t remember that name being used.
but it is fucking stupid. Sorry if that hurts any of the snowflakes feelings on this thread.
Agreed. Are we going to have to rename our team because we offend tall people? I don’t think the team name is meant to be racist, but if people are that upset about it fine. When I watch historic films I honestly don’t recall anyone using the term “redskin” toward Native Americans. They use other terms I’m not going to write because they are wrong, but I don’t remember that name being used.
Interesting take. Do you know who the founder of the team was? It might tell you a lot about whether the team name was meant to be racist.
but it is fucking stupid. Sorry if that hurts any of the snowflakes feelings on this thread.
Agreed. Are we going to have to rename our team because we offend tall people? I don’t think the team name is meant to be racist, but if people are that upset about it fine. When I watch historic films I honestly don’t recall anyone using the term “redskin” toward Native Americans. They use other terms I’m not going to write because they are wrong, but I don’t remember that name being used.
Uh, based on Uconns previous posts, I don't think he was agreeing with you.
he was saying he personally is not offended, but the people throwing tantrums on this thread are fucking snowflakes.
And quite frankly, you are. Here's a novel fucking thought: how about we don't name any team anything that's [color]skin.
If you've seen my posts, it's pretty fucking obvious I was born here, so as a 2nd gen Indian-American (like from India), I'd wouldn't root for a fucking team called the "Brownskins" with a turban and/or red dot on his forehead.
It's not weakness to say "yeah, change it" with regards to a football team name if it makes your FELLOW AMERICANS not feel objectified (and at that, one of our rivals!).
This really isn't hard to follow - Blackhawks, Seminoles, are tribes. Nobody gives a shit.
whiteskins, blackskins, foreskins, redskins, orangeskins, yellowskins -- its fucking stupid. This isn't 1933 or whatever.
94-91% of Native Americans see it as a celebration of their history, like normal people do and that’s how it was intended.
The rest are triggered white leftist douchebags who never had a job that didn’t involve bitching for a living and are desperately attempting to vent off all the white guilt and self-loathing the faculty lounges of universities nationwide pounded into them.
94-91% of Native Americans see it as a celebration of their history, like normal people do and that’s how it was intended.
The rest are triggered white leftist douchebags who never had a job that didn’t involve bitching for a living and are desperately attempting to vent off all the white guilt and self-loathing the faculty lounges of universities nationwide pounded into them.
Call them the Washington Deep Staters.
If those numbers are correct (they probably are - I would not be surprised) .... that is sad. I want to say more but, I do not want to risk getting to political.
Glad we have a name that should not be offensive to anyone. Unless (50 years? from now) .... people who are 6'4", 6'6", 7 feet tall decide that the term "Giants" is derogatory?
The ex-owner of the Washington team, the person who came up with the name, was a notorious racist, resisting for years the integration of black players in the league. I believe that owner is being removed from the ring of honor.
It is a tarnished legacy and it won’t hurt a bit to change the name and move on...besides, the guys can still be hogs...
If I was a racist and owned a team - I am not sure I would name the team after a group of people I felt superior to? Did he do it as a Joke? I don't think so ... I really think he thought the "Indians" were a formidable bunch and were great warriors. He just could not see 100 years into the PC future and that the term "Redskins" would be offensive to 9% of indigenous people. (The 9% number came from a previous post which I assume is true?)
Found this on Wiki - for what it is worth ....
"The team originated as the Boston Braves, based in Boston, Massachusetts, in 1932, under the ownership of George Preston Marshall.[9] At the time the team played in Braves Field, home of the Boston Braves baseball team in the National League. The following year, the club moved to Fenway Park, home of the American League's Boston Red Sox, whereupon owners changed the team's name to "Boston Redskins"; to round out the change, Marshall hired William Henry "Lone Star" Dietz, who was thought to be part Sioux, as the team's head coach.[10] However, the team had difficulty drawing fans as Boston was not much of a football town at the time."
RE: RE: I still like the picture of the Indian on the helmet
It still preserves the homage to the tribal people.
As racist as the term Redskins may or may not be to some, it was certainly never intended to be racist. It just may have been ignorantly created. So don't wipe the entire tradition and nod to that culture away.
George Preston Marshall was a notorious racist and renamed the Braves to the Redskins to capitalize upon playing in Fenway with the Red Sox and exploit the fad in that period of time, lead by Jim Thorpe and things like the Carlisle Indian Football group. He went as far as hiring a person impersonating a Native (William Henry "Lone Star" Dietz) and doing the equivalent of a "redskin minstrel show" during games - complete with having his HC wear the ceremonial head garb and war paint.
This is the same person that required Dixie played before the National Anthem at games, refused to integrate until he was forced to (by having his new stadium location get blocked) and left a significant sum of his fortunes to be setup specifically to fight racial integration.
Argue to what degree the term "Redskin" is filled with the same vitriol and hatred that other racial epitaphs are, but never confuse that the organization playing in DC was at the forefront of racist policy and practices for nearly 4 decades and used the branding to cash in and exploit a fad. You're calling back to something that simply isn't there.
There was no culture in that organization from 1933 to the mid-60s and anything Snyder can do to distance himself that much further from a shit stain on history like GPM is a good thing.
Should have read this before I posted last .... 80 posts on the franchise from Washington. A first? A last - hopefully?
The Red Mesa High School on the Navajo reservation on Highway 160 in AZ call themselves the "Redskins" and use the same logo as the Washington Redskins. I have a photo of the school sign but can't figure out how to post it here. Also, when I did a tour of Canyon De Chelly in AZ in 2014, my Navajo guide was a huge Denver Broncos fan. When I asked him what his people thought of the use of "Redskins", his exact words---"Nobody gives a shit"
--Why is it so difficult for some on BBI to avoid violating the terms of service? Your stupidity has ruined it for the rest of us. And speaking of your stupidity, why should anyone believe you have an intelligent thought in your head if you can't even follow a simple set of rules?
--I think calling them Indians is even more offensive. And calling them American Indians is just plain stupid. They are Native Americans whose ancestry can be traced to several nations (Sioux, Navajo, Algonquin, etc). They have absolutely nothing to do with India or Indians. If the Washington Redskins should change their name, so should the Cleveland Indians.
--I don't have a strong opinion on whether or not changing the name is the "right" thing to do, but at this point, it's the wise thing to do.
--The new name should be the Washington Native Americans.
--Why is it so difficult for some on BBI to avoid violating the terms of service? Your stupidity has ruined it for the rest of us. And speaking of your stupidity, why should anyone believe you have an intelligent thought in your head if you can't even follow a simple set of rules?
--I think calling them Indians is even more offensive. And calling them American Indians is just plain stupid. They are Native Americans whose ancestry can be traced to several nations (Sioux, Navajo, Algonquin, etc). They have absolutely nothing to do with India or Indians. If the Washington Redskins should change their name, so should the Cleveland Indians.
--I don't have a strong opinion on whether or not changing the name is the "right" thing to do, but at this point, it's the wise thing to do.
--The new name should be the Washington Native Americans.
How about just Americans?
I totally disagree with you on the Indians. Redskins was always a derogatory term, The Cleveland caricature is asinine. I cannot and do not see why the name "Indians" is a problem.
And in actuality, there are no native Americans. The first settlers came across from Asia during the ice age when the Bering Sea was frozen and foot travel was possible.
I totally disagree with you on the Indians. Redskins was always a derogatory term, The Cleveland caricature is asinine. I cannot and do not see why the name "Indians" is a problem.[quote]They're not from India, that's why.
[quote]And in actuality, there are no native Americans. The first settlers came across from Asia during the ice age when the Bering Sea was frozen and foot travel was possible.
By that logic we're all Africans. Look at it this way: they are Native Americans because they are the people who were native to this land when the Europeans arrived and gave it the name, America.
Contrary to polls showing that relatively few Native Americans take offense at the Washington Redskins’ name, a new UC Berkeley study has found that at least half of more than 1,000 Native Americans surveyed are offended by the football team’s 87-year-old moniker and Native mascots in general.
...
The study’s findings, published in the journal of Social Psychological and Personality Science, show that the degree to which those surveyed identified as Native American influenced how offensive they found Native mascots.
Of those polled for the study, 57% who strongly identify with being Native American and 67% of those who frequently engage in tribal cultural practices were found to be deeply insulted by caricatures of Native American culture.
...
Overall, 49% of participants in the UC Berkeley study were found to strongly agree or agree that the Washington Redskins’ name is offensive, while 38% were not bothered by it. The remainder were undecided or indifferent.
However, the number of those offended rose for study participants who were heavily engaged in their native or tribal cultures (67%), young people (60%) and people with tribal affiliations such as members of federally recognized tribes (52%).
Of those polled for the study, 57% who strongly identify with being Native American and 67% of those who frequently engage in tribal cultural practices were found to be deeply insulted by caricatures of Native American culture.
A Facebook friend of mine who I worked with ten years ago strongly identifies with his Native American heritage and frequently engages in tribal cultural practices. I messaged him today asking for his feelings on the Redskins name. I'll let you know his response.
It's an opportunity to make a clean break.
Did the Redtail airmen have any special connection to Washington?
Also, calling them the Washington Americans is just so.........American. It's bland as bland can be.
Naming a team after a bird seems to be a safe bet.
I'd go with the Wahington Pigeons, as they shit everywhere they go.
RE: RE: Washington Redskins’ name, Native mascots offend more than previously
Of those polled for the study, 57% who strongly identify with being Native American and 67% of those who frequently engage in tribal cultural practices were found to be deeply insulted by caricatures of Native American culture.
A Facebook friend of mine who I worked with ten years ago strongly identifies with his Native American heritage and frequently engages in tribal cultural practices. I messaged him today asking for his feelings on the Redskins name. I'll let you know his response.
There’s a wave going on now. I wouldn’t be surprised if the numbers have risen. I think People’s feelings and opinions ride the wave and become a mass, rather than inherent, opinion.
Anyone can find a way to be offended by just about anything these days. It's all horseshit. It's just a method used to continue to divide the country. If Goodell kisses ass by playing a "black" national anthem, I'm through with NFL football. I've been an avid fan since 1971. I will miss it, but there are other things in life to enjoy. I will always love my Giant memories.
- The free market will decide, which should be quite attractive to a subset of the population
- The polling around the American Indian community’s feelings on the term and iconography sways greatly from poll to poll. A more recent UC Berkeley poll, and arguably a better constructed poll than the Post poll often referenced, shows a majority of that community is not in favor of the team name.
- Seemingly a lot of Americans in general are uncomfortable with the name
- If Snyder’s intention is to honor and promote American Indians, there are probably better ways to do it
Of course Snyder will change the name. It costs him nothing, he will have a merch bonanza, he can still run his business exactly as he wishes and the very easily distracted will move on to another meaningless “offensive objectification”. Personally, I suggest Mario, Luigi and their offensive accents.
Or what you said.
The best time to change the name is ten years ago, but the second best time is right now. If Snyder is smart, he'll get out in front of this, own it and turn it into a positive.
Much better to do that than be dragged, kicking and screaming, into the 21st century.
Someone on Reddit suggested this
In all seriousness, it would be really easy for them to just take the Red out of their name and go with just the Skins. Its what everyone refers to them as anyway and it could also refer to hogskins or, more relevant to football, the pigskins.
Putting my vote in for it. It makes the most sense.
I think he’s operated that way for a while but I’m guessing the NFL is putting the full court press on him right now and I’m not sure what the repercussions will be if he doesn’t agree to change. He’s at the end of his leash.
Exactly... and they probably live alone with their 6 cats.
Quote:
99% of the people offended aren't Native Americans.
Exactly... and they probably live alone with their 6 cats.
Who cares? I'm not black, but I'd be offended if a sports team was called the N word. Wouldn't you as just a person?
You'd lose
Link - ( New Window )
Agreed. Are we going to have to rename our team because we offend tall people? I don’t think the team name is meant to be racist, but if people are that upset about it fine. When I watch historic films I honestly don’t recall anyone using the term “redskin” toward Native Americans. They use other terms I’m not going to write because they are wrong, but I don’t remember that name being used.
Quote:
but it is fucking stupid. Sorry if that hurts any of the snowflakes feelings on this thread.
Agreed. Are we going to have to rename our team because we offend tall people? I don’t think the team name is meant to be racist, but if people are that upset about it fine. When I watch historic films I honestly don’t recall anyone using the term “redskin” toward Native Americans. They use other terms I’m not going to write because they are wrong, but I don’t remember that name being used.
Interesting take. Do you know who the founder of the team was? It might tell you a lot about whether the team name was meant to be racist.
That's the most important question? Really?
This is definitely the most important piece of all of this...
Don't ever change.
Quote:
but it is fucking stupid. Sorry if that hurts any of the snowflakes feelings on this thread.
Agreed. Are we going to have to rename our team because we offend tall people? I don’t think the team name is meant to be racist, but if people are that upset about it fine. When I watch historic films I honestly don’t recall anyone using the term “redskin” toward Native Americans. They use other terms I’m not going to write because they are wrong, but I don’t remember that name being used.
he was saying he personally is not offended, but the people throwing tantrums on this thread are fucking snowflakes.
And quite frankly, you are. Here's a novel fucking thought: how about we don't name any team anything that's [color]skin.
If you've seen my posts, it's pretty fucking obvious I was born here, so as a 2nd gen Indian-American (like from India), I'd wouldn't root for a fucking team called the "Brownskins" with a turban and/or red dot on his forehead.
It's not weakness to say "yeah, change it" with regards to a football team name if it makes your FELLOW AMERICANS not feel objectified (and at that, one of our rivals!).
This really isn't hard to follow - Blackhawks, Seminoles, are tribes. Nobody gives a shit.
whiteskins, blackskins, foreskins, redskins, orangeskins, yellowskins -- its fucking stupid. This isn't 1933 or whatever.
The rest are triggered white leftist douchebags who never had a job that didn’t involve bitching for a living and are desperately attempting to vent off all the white guilt and self-loathing the faculty lounges of universities nationwide pounded into them.
Call them the Washington Deep Staters.
The rest are triggered white leftist douchebags who never had a job that didn’t involve bitching for a living and are desperately attempting to vent off all the white guilt and self-loathing the faculty lounges of universities nationwide pounded into them.
Call them the Washington Deep Staters.
If those numbers are correct (they probably are - I would not be surprised) .... that is sad. I want to say more but, I do not want to risk getting to political.
Glad we have a name that should not be offensive to anyone. Unless (50 years? from now) .... people who are 6'4", 6'6", 7 feet tall decide that the term "Giants" is derogatory?
+1
The ex-owner of the Washington team, the person who came up with the name, was a notorious racist, resisting for years the integration of black players in the league. I believe that owner is being removed from the ring of honor.
It is a tarnished legacy and it won’t hurt a bit to change the name and move on...besides, the guys can still be hogs...
If I was a racist and owned a team - I am not sure I would name the team after a group of people I felt superior to? Did he do it as a Joke? I don't think so ... I really think he thought the "Indians" were a formidable bunch and were great warriors. He just could not see 100 years into the PC future and that the term "Redskins" would be offensive to 9% of indigenous people. (The 9% number came from a previous post which I assume is true?)
Found this on Wiki - for what it is worth ....
"The team originated as the Boston Braves, based in Boston, Massachusetts, in 1932, under the ownership of George Preston Marshall.[9] At the time the team played in Braves Field, home of the Boston Braves baseball team in the National League. The following year, the club moved to Fenway Park, home of the American League's Boston Red Sox, whereupon owners changed the team's name to "Boston Redskins"; to round out the change, Marshall hired William Henry "Lone Star" Dietz, who was thought to be part Sioux, as the team's head coach.[10] However, the team had difficulty drawing fans as Boston was not much of a football town at the time."
Quote:
just change the name.
Washington Strongbows or something.
It still preserves the homage to the tribal people.
As racist as the term Redskins may or may not be to some, it was certainly never intended to be racist. It just may have been ignorantly created. So don't wipe the entire tradition and nod to that culture away.
George Preston Marshall was a notorious racist and renamed the Braves to the Redskins to capitalize upon playing in Fenway with the Red Sox and exploit the fad in that period of time, lead by Jim Thorpe and things like the Carlisle Indian Football group. He went as far as hiring a person impersonating a Native (William Henry "Lone Star" Dietz) and doing the equivalent of a "redskin minstrel show" during games - complete with having his HC wear the ceremonial head garb and war paint.
This is the same person that required Dixie played before the National Anthem at games, refused to integrate until he was forced to (by having his new stadium location get blocked) and left a significant sum of his fortunes to be setup specifically to fight racial integration.
Argue to what degree the term "Redskin" is filled with the same vitriol and hatred that other racial epitaphs are, but never confuse that the organization playing in DC was at the forefront of racist policy and practices for nearly 4 decades and used the branding to cash in and exploit a fad. You're calling back to something that simply isn't there.
There was no culture in that organization from 1933 to the mid-60s and anything Snyder can do to distance himself that much further from a shit stain on history like GPM is a good thing.
Should have read this before I posted last .... 80 posts on the franchise from Washington. A first? A last - hopefully?
--I think calling them Indians is even more offensive. And calling them American Indians is just plain stupid. They are Native Americans whose ancestry can be traced to several nations (Sioux, Navajo, Algonquin, etc). They have absolutely nothing to do with India or Indians. If the Washington Redskins should change their name, so should the Cleveland Indians.
--I don't have a strong opinion on whether or not changing the name is the "right" thing to do, but at this point, it's the wise thing to do.
--The new name should be the Washington Native Americans.
--I think calling them Indians is even more offensive. And calling them American Indians is just plain stupid. They are Native Americans whose ancestry can be traced to several nations (Sioux, Navajo, Algonquin, etc). They have absolutely nothing to do with India or Indians. If the Washington Redskins should change their name, so should the Cleveland Indians.
--I don't have a strong opinion on whether or not changing the name is the "right" thing to do, but at this point, it's the wise thing to do.
--The new name should be the Washington Native Americans.
How about just Americans?
I totally disagree with you on the Indians. Redskins was always a derogatory term, The Cleveland caricature is asinine. I cannot and do not see why the name "Indians" is a problem.
And in actuality, there are no native Americans. The first settlers came across from Asia during the ice age when the Bering Sea was frozen and foot travel was possible.
I totally disagree with you on the Indians. Redskins was always a derogatory term, The Cleveland caricature is asinine. I cannot and do not see why the name "Indians" is a problem.[quote]They're not from India, that's why.
[quote]And in actuality, there are no native Americans. The first settlers came across from Asia during the ice age when the Bering Sea was frozen and foot travel was possible.
"Ah, you're Indians" - ( New Window )
The Washington Filibusters?
The Washington What the Fucks?
The Washington Taxpayers?
Contrary to polls showing that relatively few Native Americans take offense at the Washington Redskins’ name, a new UC Berkeley study has found that at least half of more than 1,000 Native Americans surveyed are offended by the football team’s 87-year-old moniker and Native mascots in general.
...
The study’s findings, published in the journal of Social Psychological and Personality Science, show that the degree to which those surveyed identified as Native American influenced how offensive they found Native mascots.
Of those polled for the study, 57% who strongly identify with being Native American and 67% of those who frequently engage in tribal cultural practices were found to be deeply insulted by caricatures of Native American culture.
...
Overall, 49% of participants in the UC Berkeley study were found to strongly agree or agree that the Washington Redskins’ name is offensive, while 38% were not bothered by it. The remainder were undecided or indifferent.
However, the number of those offended rose for study participants who were heavily engaged in their native or tribal cultures (67%), young people (60%) and people with tribal affiliations such as members of federally recognized tribes (52%).
Link - ( New Window )
Link - ( New Window )
Big Cola is watching
Did the Redtail airmen have any special connection to Washington?
Also, calling them the Washington Americans is just so.........American. It's bland as bland can be.
Naming a team after a bird seems to be a safe bet.
I'd go with the Wahington Pigeons, as they shit everywhere they go.
Quote:
Of those polled for the study, 57% who strongly identify with being Native American and 67% of those who frequently engage in tribal cultural practices were found to be deeply insulted by caricatures of Native American culture.
A Facebook friend of mine who I worked with ten years ago strongly identifies with his Native American heritage and frequently engages in tribal cultural practices. I messaged him today asking for his feelings on the Redskins name. I'll let you know his response.
There’s a wave going on now. I wouldn’t be surprised if the numbers have risen. I think People’s feelings and opinions ride the wave and become a mass, rather than inherent, opinion.
- The polling around the American Indian community’s feelings on the term and iconography sways greatly from poll to poll. A more recent UC Berkeley poll, and arguably a better constructed poll than the Post poll often referenced, shows a majority of that community is not in favor of the team name.
- Seemingly a lot of Americans in general are uncomfortable with the name
- If Snyder’s intention is to honor and promote American Indians, there are probably better ways to do it