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Leonard Williams update from Vacchiano: sides not close

Vin_Cuccs : 7/4/2020 2:07 pm
Williams is looking for premier pass rusher money, between $18 to $20 million annually.

Gettleman is all in on Williams, but others in the organization may not be.

The two sides have until July 15th to work out a long term deal, or play on the franchise tag for the year.

Link below.

If this has been posted, I will delete.
Link - ( New Window )
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RE: Being on the tag  
GiantsFan84 : 7/5/2020 6:47 pm : link
In comment 14928996 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
this year, assuming he plays on it, doesn't mean like some people think - oh Williams is on the tag he's going to play like a maniac and earn a big contract.

More often than not it seems like the players who don't seem eager to be on the tag, drag out a hold out and/or don't report until they have to (week 10 I believe) and then are often times a non-factor on the field.

I don't know that him playing on the tag is a win for the Giants especially if he decides not to show up until week 10.


that's fine if he does this. roll the cap savings over into next year. they aren't winning anything this year with him, they can lose just as well without him
RE: Signing the FT  
BigBlueShock : 7/5/2020 7:00 pm : link
In comment 14929005 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
doesn't force him to report. I think all it did was mean Gettleman couldn't rescind it like he did to Josh Norman.

players under contract hold out all the time, and signing the tag or not, he gets a full year of service by reporting week 10.

And the contract absolutely has a bearing on how he plays on the field (or if). The players don't like the FT b/c it doesn't guarantee anything beyond the current year. So if you're a player on the FT you absolutely have a right not to even get on the field until you absolutely have to so you get the accrued season.

Didn’t they change that week 10 thing with this new CBA? I’m pretty sure they did and that a player must show up before week 1 to accrue the service time. I’m not positive but I remember watching a show where they discussed this and the way around it for the players was to simply show up and fake an injury, like a back injury that can’t be detected, necessarily. Similar to the stunt Ramsey pulled in Jax last season.
RE: RE: Signing the FT  
pjcas18 : 7/5/2020 7:58 pm : link
In comment 14929113 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 14929005 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


doesn't force him to report. I think all it did was mean Gettleman couldn't rescind it like he did to Josh Norman.

players under contract hold out all the time, and signing the tag or not, he gets a full year of service by reporting week 10.

And the contract absolutely has a bearing on how he plays on the field (or if). The players don't like the FT b/c it doesn't guarantee anything beyond the current year. So if you're a player on the FT you absolutely have a right not to even get on the field until you absolutely have to so you get the accrued season.



Didn’t they change that week 10 thing with this new CBA? I’m pretty sure they did and that a player must show up before week 1 to accrue the service time. I’m not positive but I remember watching a show where they discussed this and the way around it for the players was to simply show up and fake an injury, like a back injury that can’t be detected, necessarily. Similar to the stunt Ramsey pulled in Jax last season.

I'm not qualified to interpret contract language, but it doesn't seem like anything has changed wrt to the accrued season calculation, from the latest CBA:

Quote:
...Section 1. Accrued Seasons Calculation: (a) For the purposes of calculating Accrued Seasons under this Agreement, a player shall receive one Accrued Season for each season during which he was on, or should have been on, full pay status for a total of six or more regular season games (which shall include any games encompassed in any injury settlement, injury grievance settlement or injury grievance award), but which, irrespective of the player’s pay status, shall not include games for which the player was on: (i) the Exempt Commissioner Permission List, (ii) the Reserve PUP List as a result of a nonfootball injury, or (iii) a Club’s Practice Squad. (b) A player shall not receive an Accrued Season for any League Year in which the player is under contract to a Club and in which (i) he failed to report to the Club’s preseason training camp on that player’s mandatory reporting date; or (ii) the player there-after failed to perform his contract services for the Club for a material period of time, unless he demonstrates to the Impartial Arbitrator extreme personal hardship causing such failure to report or perform, such as severe illness or death in the family. The determina-tion of the Impartial Arbitrator shall be made within thirty days of the application by the player, and shall be based upon all information relating to such hardship submitted by such date. The determination of the Impartial Arbitrator shall be final and binding upon all parties...

Latest CBA - ( New Window )
Hers a link  
BigBlueShock : 7/5/2020 9:30 pm : link
See the HOLDOUT section:

Holdouts
Increased fines for holdouts and players who leave training camp without permission
Players under contract who fail to report to camp on time or leaves the team for more than five days without permission will no longer be eligible to earn an accrued season for that year
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Hers a link  
pjcas18 : 7/6/2020 8:36 am : link
In comment 14929146 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
See the HOLDOUT section:

Holdouts
Increased fines for holdouts and players who leave training camp without permission
Players under contract who fail to report to camp on time or leaves the team for more than five days without permission will no longer be eligible to earn an accrued season for that year Link - ( New Window )


thanks, interesting, like I said I am not qualified to interpret this, lol.

I'm still not 100% sure if it's changed since it mentioned camp, but if it has changed then Eric was probably right, singing the FT not just guarantees it, but also forces Williams to report. Not sure though if that's the right interpretation.
Let him play on the tag  
Rudy5757 : 7/6/2020 10:13 am : link
If he's having a monster year we can trade him for at least a 3rd which is what we would get as a comp pick. We gave up too much to get him for a 2-6 team. If we had a chance at playoffs I could see making a run at him but the trade made no sense. He would probably be in the same boat as Clowney right now, priced out of the market.

Oh well we move on and hope he plays like an $18M player should. If he does play up to that level it makes it bearable especially if we make the playoffs.
I support Gettleman for the most part  
eric2425ny : 7/6/2020 10:56 am : link
but this trade seems to look worse and worse every day. I thought they for sure would have locked up a reasonable long term deal with him by now.

You would think they would have done enough homework last year to know he was going to command a ridiculously high salary before trading for him. Guess not.
Think both sides give a little and this gets done.  
TMS : 7/6/2020 1:25 pm : link
Williams wants to stay in NYC to prove something. Hope he does.
It’s very difficult to see the logic to this trade without having  
LBH15 : 7/6/2020 3:24 pm : link
the longer term deal parameters basically locked up at the same time. The nonsense about getting a half season “peak in the window” at his play and attitude first on the Giants is also pretty silly in this day and age.

9 days left to get this sealed up. Or conversely, only 9 days left before the DG bashers and supporters will likely go at it again.

RE: It’s very difficult to see the logic to this trade without having  
BubbaMojo : 7/6/2020 3:38 pm : link

With Jimmy Googs (LBH15) leading the way.


In comment 14929400 LBH15 said:
Quote:
the longer term deal parameters basically locked up at the same time. The nonsense about getting a half season “peak in the window” at his play and attitude first on the Giants is also pretty silly in this day and age.

9 days left to get this sealed up. Or conversely, only 9 days left before the DG bashers and supporters will likely go at it again.
Bubba Dupe makes an appearance.  
LBH15 : 7/6/2020 3:47 pm : link
.
honest question - what is the urgency for a multi-year deal now?  
Eric on Li : 7/6/2020 4:08 pm : link
at most it will save $2-3m in cap room based on AAV. That's not the difference in adding a meaningful player right now (or next year if carried over). More future years obviously lock down LW rights for longer, but we already have them this year and next if we choose because I believe we can tag him again. Point being we have plenty of time to get an extension done before there's any meaningful deadline.

I am not saying tagging again is an ideal outcome, I think it's highly unlikely, just that we have control of his rights for 2 years. And we have the flexibility to let him walk. Isn't the right to let him walk if we choose worth more than saving a couple million against the cap?
It's not just  
pjcas18 : 7/6/2020 4:23 pm : link
saving a couple million on the cap for one year - that's a short sighted way to look at it.

I mentioned this before, it's about maximizing the return on guaranteed dollars.

You brought up the DJ Reader contract.

Reader got $20M guaranteed for 4 years (4 year $53M, 20M guaranteed).

Williams will have $16.1M guaranteed for this year only. I hope you can see that is not a good return on using guaranteed dollars. He's 26 years old these are his prime years, signing him long-term can help structure the contract and guarantees so the team has maximum payroll flexibility in the out years.

I think Williams will get more than Reader, but even if Williams get 4 years $60M $30M guaranteed - front loading those guaranteed dollars to do something like guarantee year 1 salary and a small pro-rated SB, by year 3 he's cuttable or restructurable without much pain.

it's about avoiding untenable cap situations, so by playing this year on the cap, it's like a complete reset for the guaranteed $$$. I used the Welker example previously and it's a good one I think - they way some front office view a situation like this.
RE: honest question - what is the urgency for a multi-year deal now?  
LBH15 : 7/6/2020 4:26 pm : link
In comment 14929435 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
at most it will save $2-3m in cap room based on AAV. That's not the difference in adding a meaningful player right now (or next year if carried over). More future years obviously lock down LW rights for longer, but we already have them this year and next if we choose because I believe we can tag him again. Point being we have plenty of time to get an extension done before there's any meaningful deadline.

I am not saying tagging again is an ideal outcome, I think it's highly unlikely, just that we have control of his rights for 2 years. And we have the flexibility to let him walk. Isn't the right to let him walk if we choose worth more than saving a couple million against the cap?


At some point this LW deal needs to grow up and you know...be an adult.

It just keeps turning into the thing that actually can’t get done right so let’s go with the next least worst alternative.
Idon't think Leonard Williams has shown enough since he's been here to  
Jersey55 : 7/6/2020 4:37 pm : link
demand anything yet.....
that's a good answer that would have been a better answer in February  
Eric on Li : 7/6/2020 4:44 pm : link
from the moment he got tagged that $16m was gtd money in the bank for the purposes of an extension.

You are 100% correct that a better outcome would have been guaranteeing something like $30-35m over the life of a deal, with this year's $16m being about half of that - but if LW would have accepted that deal (or any other in the ballpark of Reader/Hargrave) it would have been done by now.

I think the $18-20m ask is likely bs but I don't think it's too far off what he's likely asking for. Prior to Hargrave/Reader signing what Grady Jarrett (17m aav) got last year after getting tagged by the Falcons seemed like a very solid comp (4 years, 68m, 42 gtd).

So while a DJ Reader contract is a no brainer for NYG and $18m+ is a no way, the Jarrett level deal is more of a gray area which is where the compromise likely lies - and i'm not sure I'd do that now. I'd prefer to see him play really well for a full year before giving that out. If he doesn't play great we may prefer to resign Tomlinson in the range of Hargraves/Reader and let LW walk for the comp pick (Hargraves is projected to return a 4th rd pick to Pitt, so either LW has a bad year and we can resign him for the price we want or he has a good year, costs more, and either resigns or returns a 3rd via comp pick).

The biggest unknown to me is how much impact he will have on the field. At this point I'd rather try to solve for that unknown as best as I can before deciding. Unless he's will to take the bare minimum which would be a Reader/Hargraves deal - though I think his agent would get fired on the spot by all his other clients if was willing to take less AAV than he's already guaranteed by his signed tag.
Comp picks shouldn't  
pjcas18 : 7/6/2020 4:50 pm : link
enter into the equation. The Giants are not an organization that minimizes their free agency needs well enough to count on it and say "Williams will net a 3rd round comp pick" - because a) the Giants will likely still have a lot of holes and b) no one knows what free agent acquisitions the Giants will make and as we all know, but sometimes forget, comp picks calculations are based on net free agent scorecards (with some complexity) not just free agent losses.
RE: Comp picks shouldn't  
Eric on Li : 7/6/2020 4:55 pm : link
In comment 14929476 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
enter into the equation. The Giants are not an organization that minimizes their free agency needs well enough to count on it and say "Williams will net a 3rd round comp pick" - because a) the Giants will likely still have a lot of holes and b) no one knows what free agent acquisitions the Giants will make and as we all know, but sometimes forget, comp picks calculations are based on net free agent scorecards (with some complexity) not just free agent losses.


recent history disagrees. They did really well to negotiate their comp pick for Collins last year even with signing Tate and a few others. The new regime has done very well with the comp pick system and while it's not the primary motivator of this decision it is a factor that can't be ignored.
RE: RE: honest question - what is the urgency for a multi-year deal now?  
Eric on Li : 7/6/2020 5:01 pm : link
In comment 14929452 LBH15 said:
Quote:




At some point this LW deal needs to grow up and you know...be an adult.


He signed his tag and hasn't been a squeaky wheel publicly threatening to skip camp until he gets a new deal. He didn't ask to get traded for, or tagged. If he and his agent think he's worth as much as Grady Jarrett they might end up wrong but it's not crazy. He was the last run stuffing DT who got tagged after his first contract so the contract extension he signed on July 15th of last year before camp while tagged would seem to be a reasonable ask at the moment.
RE: RE: RE: honest question - what is the urgency for a multi-year deal now?  
LBH15 : 7/6/2020 5:13 pm : link
In comment 14929482 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 14929452 LBH15 said:


Quote:






At some point this LW deal needs to grow up and you know...be an adult.



He signed his tag and hasn't been a squeaky wheel publicly threatening to skip camp until he gets a new deal. He didn't ask to get traded for, or tagged. If he and his agent think he's worth as much as Grady Jarrett they might end up wrong but it's not crazy. He was the last run stuffing DT who got tagged after his first contract so the contract extension he signed on July 15th of last year before camp while tagged would seem to be a reasonable ask at the moment.


I am not blaming LW at all. He is doing what is in his best interest. And the Giants keep responding with something that tries to keep this ridiculous thing alive.

It should have never happened. Or it should have just happened in normal free agency dealings and been done.

An example of how not to run a club.
RE: Idon't think Leonard Williams has shown enough since he's been here to  
SGMen : 7/6/2020 5:13 pm : link
In comment 14929462 Jersey55 said:
Quote:
demand anything yet.....
Mostly agree. I mean, when he started playing for us our defense did improve, especially vs the run.
I still think trading for him that late was perhaps a mistake but given all the positive posts I'll hold out judgment until the end of this year - assuming we have some kind of year!
RE: RE: RE: RE: honest question - what is the urgency for a multi-year deal now?  
Eric on Li : 7/6/2020 5:22 pm : link
In comment 14929491 LBH15 said:
Quote:


I am not blaming LW at all. He is doing what is in his best interest. And the Giants keep responding with something that tries to keep this ridiculous thing alive.

It should have never happened. Or it should have just happened in normal free agency dealings and been done.

An example of how not to run a club.


I think that remains to be seen to a degree. I thought the same thing about the Cowboys trading a 1 for Cooper - and I was still a big Cooper fan at that point. It just seemed like a bizarre deal. Then he was an instant fit with Dak who has since justified both the trade a huge extension without ever hitting UFA for any teams that may have wanted him but didn't want to trade for him.

I'm not saying that makes this trade or any in season trade by a team going nowhere good move, just that the results are still TBD. If LW returns to his pro bowl form and leads a good defense this year and beyond I won't mind as much that we didn't have a 3rd rd pick this year.
The problem with the Leonard Williams deal is it has always  
LBH15 : 7/6/2020 5:43 pm : link
been a TBD. And that TBD seems to think he is worth $18M per year and wants to be paid.

So we wait and see if two draft picks and $20M+ were just pissed away for a season and a half when the team wasn’t going anywhere anyway during this time.



...  
christian : 7/6/2020 6:55 pm : link
Given the Giants cap situation and the number of soft spots on the roster, I expect them to be buyers in UFA next year, and not be in line for a comp pick if Williams leaves.

If the Giants are going to invest 30M+ in Williams over the next two years in franchise tags, they should at a minimum gain the option for a 3rd year of control.

The Bradberry deal is a great model — ~32M guaranteed money with 43 overall. The Giants can either choose to pay him for the 3rd year or walk away with minimal dead money.
I understand that LW  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 7/6/2020 7:03 pm : link
was a bad deal

BUT, as so often happens around here sone have lost perspective and it has been blown into something way larger than it actually is. People act as though they spent a first rounder.

They rolled the dice. Can we stop whining about it yet?

I suppose not since I still need to hear about Linval Joseph at least a couple times a year.
Williams'  
pjcas18 : 7/6/2020 7:09 pm : link
Giants fate is not even yet determined, but fans like LakeGeorgeGiant point of view is we can't discuss it anymore???

Out of all the other shit that gets discussed on here, this is probably the one thing that should be discussed.
I don't think his point is that it can't be discussed  
Eric on Li : 7/6/2020 7:31 pm : link
he clearly said "it has been blown into something way larger than it actually is. People act as though they spent a first rounder".

On that I think he's right. But getting to the discussion because I agree with you, it is probably the most worthy of a discussion right now. Here's a hypothetical choice for anyone interested in partaking, which would you prefer:

option 1 - play the season on tag.

option 2 - sign him to the same deal Grady Jarrett got last year (4/68m/42.5m gtd). So essentially a 3/52m extension tacked on top of the tag plus an extra 26m guaranteed.

Jarrett as mentioned was tagged as a DT and signed on 7/15 right before camp making him a direct recent comp to Williams situation. The fact that both were tagged at the same level by their respective teams implies their values on the field as similar and while DT stats are somewhat limited their production is comparable too. Both produced more behind the LOS (TFL, sacks, pressures, hits) than Reader/Hargrave so I think it's a lot more realistic of a comp right now than the latter 2 deals.
RE: ...  
eric2425ny : 7/6/2020 8:11 pm : link
In comment 14929558 christian said:
Quote:
Given the Giants cap situation and the number of soft spots on the roster, I expect them to be buyers in UFA next year, and not be in line for a comp pick if Williams leaves.

If the Giants are going to invest 30M+ in Williams over the next two years in franchise tags, they should at a minimum gain the option for a 3rd year of control.

The Bradberry deal is a great model — ~32M guaranteed money with 43 overall. The Giants can either choose to pay him for the 3rd year or walk away with minimal dead money.


Agree Christian. Unless they work out a team friendly deal it seems more financially prudent to tag him for two years if necessary.
RE: I understand that LW  
LBH15 : 7/6/2020 9:00 pm : link
In comment 14929563 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
was a bad deal

BUT, as so often happens around here sone have lost perspective and it has been blown into something way larger than it actually is. People act as though they spent a first rounder.

They rolled the dice. Can we stop whining about it yet?

I suppose not since I still need to hear about Linval Joseph at least a couple times a year.


4-12 teams rolling the dice on a silly deal deserve to be whined at by their fans.

As do fans that think they have perspective but are really just complacent.
Gettleman is on the kind of trading roll  
arniefez : 7/6/2020 9:48 pm : link
that we haven't seen since Wellington in his prime. If there was a BBI from 1965-1979 the same usual suspect Baghdad Bobs would be falling over each other to defend Craig Morton for Randy White.
Man, what a terrible trade that was  
Greg from LI : 7/6/2020 9:49 pm : link
Just a total unforced error.
RE: Man, what a terrible trade that was  
Matt M. : 7/6/2020 10:55 pm : link
In comment 14929635 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Just a total unforced error.
For sure. I never understood it or liked it.
Leonard Williams  
Dragon : 7/6/2020 11:28 pm : link
Some guy in K.C. just signed a huge contract he plays like an unbelievable talent run in to Giants HQ tell them forget 16 mil FT or 6 x 20 contract I know I’m a 6 x 50 talent just waiting to show it show me the money DG.
RE: I understand that LW  
Brown_Hornet : 7/7/2020 2:41 pm : link
In comment 14929563 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
was a bad deal

BUT, as so often happens around here sone have lost perspective and it has been blown into something way larger than it actually is. People act as though they spent a first rounder.

They rolled the dice. Can we stop whining about it yet?

I suppose not since I still need to hear about Linval Joseph at least a couple times a year.

+1
This is the "look at me" affect that BBI has on some of the folks here.
Gun to my head  
JonC : 7/7/2020 4:23 pm : link
DG would be hard pressed to give LW more than the tag on a per season basis. The tag is typically viewed as beyond the target AAV. I question if DG has the leash to go for broke on LW.
RE: I understand that LW  
Klaatu : 7/7/2020 4:46 pm : link
In comment 14929563 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
was a bad deal

BUT, as so often happens around here sone have lost perspective and it has been blown into something way larger than it actually is. People act as though they spent a first rounder.

They rolled the dice. Can we stop whining about it yet?

I suppose not since I still need to hear about Linval Joseph at least a couple times a year.


It's worth whining about on principle alone. Bad teams should be looking to acquire draft capital, not trade it away, especially not for an unexceptional player who expects to get paid like an exceptional one. It wasn't just "a bad deal," it was a monumentally bad deal on several levels.
RE: RE: I understand that LW  
LBH15 : 7/7/2020 5:43 pm : link
In comment 14929911 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
In comment 14929563 LakeGeorgeGiant said:


Quote:


was a bad deal

BUT, as so often happens around here sone have lost perspective and it has been blown into something way larger than it actually is. People act as though they spent a first rounder.

They rolled the dice. Can we stop whining about it yet?

I suppose not since I still need to hear about Linval Joseph at least a couple times a year.


+1
This is the "look at me" affect that BBI has on some of the folks here.


-1
There is a weird contingent of people on this site  
NoGainDayne : 7/7/2020 7:15 pm : link
that seem to want to downplay criticism of DG and the team leadership.

The Giants want to be on the patient side. I think the reasonable middle ground here is that DJ showed some promise and if he hits it covers up what appear to be large errors in judgement and process as of now. I agree that if DJ becomes a star and Barkley stays healthy and a top back in this league this offense could be great. We could form a winning team around those two and heavy investment in OL and defense.

There are other stories though, there is the story where DJ is a star but we don't win BECAUSE of the assets we invested in a position with declining relative positional value like RB and both draft picks and too much money in an upper middle level player.

If DJ doesn't hit this is likely to be the worst period in franchise history.

I think to how Frank Costanza once screamed at George Steinbrenner in an episode of Seinfeld, “How could you give $12 million to Hideki Irabu?!!!" while his son was on trial.

This is the NY sports market. You get to be deified if you stand out a winner and never ending ridicule if the opposite is true.

DG made some moves that went against more modern theories of team building. If in doing that he builds a winner, I'll be here waving the pom poms with everyone. If he doesn't, if some of these moves keep looking every bit as head scratching as people were able to say immediately with far less information and resources than him, there isn't enough ink to spill about it.

This kind of update makes this deal even more frustrating. What exactly are people suggesting. We ignore this thread? we come here and say well that's an honest mistake?

Sorry. No. Many pointed out at the time of this trade that we were putting ourselves in a pretty terrible position in terms of leverage with LW and as was also suggested he is using every bit of it. It's the job of a good management team to anticipate these things not be victims of it.

...  
christian : 7/7/2020 7:18 pm : link
Gettleman read the cards wrong if he thought he and William’s camp we’re close. The comp was there with Jarrett. Unless Williams is asking for more than that, which is bananas and something a GM should have had a pulse on before the trade.

It’s a tough sale if the outcome is a 3rd, 5th and 18M for 24 games.

You look at the offseason now as it’s almost wrapped up, and it’s clear he was a priority and a part of the plan. If you can’t get him under team control for 3 years, bad on the GM.
RE: ...  
Eric on Li : 7/7/2020 7:57 pm : link
In comment 14930056 christian said:
Quote:
Gettleman read the cards wrong if he thought he and William’s camp we’re close. The comp was there with Jarrett. Unless Williams is asking for more than that, which is bananas and something a GM should have had a pulse on before the trade.

It’s a tough sale if the outcome is a 3rd, 5th and 18M for 24 games.

You look at the offseason now as it’s almost wrapped up, and it’s clear he was a priority and a part of the plan. If you can’t get him under team control for 3 years, bad on the GM.


I'd still rather have the flexibility than the 3rd year, but maybe that's just the recent memory of being wrong about Landon Collins and that situation having worked out for the best.
...  
christian : 7/7/2020 8:46 pm : link
With that much guaranteed money getting a 3rd year and flexibility aren’t mutually exclusive.

The Bradberry deal is the perfect example — the Giants either keep him for 2 years at ~30M or 3 years at ~44M. That’s a great contract for both sides.

It takes two of course, but it’s within the realm of possibilities, and it’s a better outcome for the Giants. I’d much rather the Giants sign Williams to a 3/48 with 35 guaranteed than effectively 2/32 with 32 guaranteed.
RE: ...  
Eric on Li : 7/7/2020 8:59 pm : link
In comment 14930116 christian said:
Quote:
With that much guaranteed money getting a 3rd year and flexibility aren’t mutually exclusive.

The Bradberry deal is the perfect example — the Giants either keep him for 2 years at ~30M or 3 years at ~44M. That’s a great contract for both sides.

It takes two of course, but it’s within the realm of possibilities, and it’s a better outcome for the Giants. I’d much rather the Giants sign Williams to a 3/48 with 35 guaranteed than effectively 2/32 with 32 guaranteed.


That makes sense and I suspect the reason that deal isn't done is that he wants something closer to what Jarrett got and a 4th year.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they meet somewhere in the middle in the next few weeks. If I were a player facing an unknown season and I was in a city I wanted to be in I'd rather take the guaranteed security now - even if it ends up a little bit below whatever target I'd set for myself going in. 4 years / 60m-66m seems like a fair deal for both sides. That would make Williams the 6th highest paid DT, 1 spot ahead of DJ Reader by a few million and close behind Atkins/Jarrett/Cox. Buckner and Donald are the top 2 and even LW admitted he knows he's not on that tier a while back.
I'd consider it a win to get him at numbers like 3/48  
NoGainDayne : 7/7/2020 9:31 pm : link
or even 4/60. That's on the high end of reasonable IMO. It doesn't really seem like, especially with this story coming out that LW has any intentions of being reasonable. It very much feels like he wants to be paid beyond what he's proven to be his consistent level. This is true to an extent with any player but there are plenty that come to reasonable agreements, the Giants have every incentive to make a reasonable deal with him and the fact that it isn't done kind of leads to the conclusion that he is steadfast in unreasonable demands
RE: I'd consider it a win to get him at numbers like 3/48  
Eric on Li : 7/7/2020 11:10 pm : link
In comment 14930135 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
or even 4/60. That's on the high end of reasonable IMO. It doesn't really seem like, especially with this story coming out that LW has any intentions of being reasonable. It very much feels like he wants to be paid beyond what he's proven to be his consistent level. This is true to an extent with any player but there are plenty that come to reasonable agreements, the Giants have every incentive to make a reasonable deal with him and the fact that it isn't done kind of leads to the conclusion that he is steadfast in unreasonable demands


Deadlines spur action and that's exactly how the most comparable recent extension happened last year (Jarrett). Perhaps LW was comfortable trying to prove himself this year, but nothing short of double digit sack year is getting him paid like Buckner/Donald (and that may not even get it done). And now add in the extra risk of the season just being interrupted in general. If there's an offer around $60m on the table he'd be wise to take it, but I'm not so sure there is. I suppose we will find out in the next couple weeks.
...  
christian : 7/7/2020 11:35 pm : link
Gettleman clearly thinks he’s a cornerstone player and had the conviction to go get him and secure his rights. That’s not a roll the dice move, that’s proactive. I wonder where Jude sits. He’s been in the room for 5 years game planning twice a year against the Jets.
RE: ...  
LBH15 : 7/8/2020 8:13 am : link
In comment 14930151 christian said:
Quote:
Gettleman clearly thinks he’s a cornerstone player and had the conviction to go get him and secure his rights. That’s not a roll the dice move, that’s proactive. I wonder where Jude sits. He’s been in the room for 5 years game planning twice a year against the Jets.


If he is a cornerstone player then Gettleman should probably give him the $18M per year.

Except, of course...he's not.

7 days left.
RE: ...  
Eric on Li : 7/8/2020 11:06 am : link
In comment 14930151 christian said:
Quote:
Gettleman clearly thinks he’s a cornerstone player and had the conviction to go get him and secure his rights. That’s not a roll the dice move, that’s proactive. I wonder where Jude sits. He’s been in the room for 5 years game planning twice a year against the Jets.


Judge is definitely the swing vote here. If he likes him I think he will get signed in the next week. If he's uncertain I think he plays on the tag.

We saw with Jones that Judge's original blank slate posture was a little bit of fluff and after a certain point he was willing to articulate strong opinions on the roster prior to getting fully on the field. As you said, his team faced Williams a number of times in his career so he should have a relatively informed opinion.
It's hilarious there are still Giant "fans" torturing themselves  
arniefez : 7/9/2020 5:10 pm : link
into a pretzel to try and defend the idiocy of the Giants front office since they hired Gettleman.

If the Cowboys had made this trade there would be a 1000 post thread laughing our asses off at what an idiot Jerry Jones is.

There is NO OTHER TRADE LIKE THIS IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL since free agency started.

Remember when the Jets traded two mid rounds picks, one that turned out to be a top 70 pick, for a guy who would be a free agent in 8 games let alone when they were 2-6? Or the Browns? Or the Redskins? Or the Jags? Cards? Bueller? Any of the joke NFL franchises ever do this?

Nope. NONE. NOT ONE.

But carry on.
there's no torture...  
Brown_Hornet : 7/10/2020 4:31 pm : link
...
July 15th 4pm is just  
LBH15 : 7/10/2020 6:47 pm : link
around the corner.
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