Williams is looking for premier pass rusher money, between $18 to $20 million annually.
Gettleman is all in on Williams, but others in the organization may not be.
The two sides have until July 15th to work out a long term deal, or play on the franchise tag for the year.
Link below.
If this has been posted, I will delete.
Link - (
New Window )
officially distracted now
+1
If you’re his agent, why wouldn’t you think the Giants would pay him in line with the very good tackles?
In the midst of a losing season, the Giants sought him out. Then they franchised him. The Giants keep doing things to show how important he is and how much they like him.
The only way to really lose that trade was to let him walk for nothing or cave and overpay. I am more than content riding it out the tag route, it's the least risky route.
thoughts?
thoughts?
Not sure what incentive the Chiefs would have unless they think Jones won't play under the tag.
Giants in prime position to trade for Chris Jones - ( New Window )
Agreed! Dak too. He should sign a long term deal because this is as good as it gets.
If he and his agent are living in fantasy land we let him walk after the season and see how the comp pick formula works out next year.
At that point, we assess whether we can keep him with another tag OR let him walk and we hope to get a #3 tag.
I still think we overpaid for him at mid-season simply because he had no more contract left AND I don't know if we had that much competition. I don't think the trade was completely horrible but it certainly would have been fine to have traded for him at the end of pre-season or heck even after 1 or 2 or 3 games even when we were still potentially "in it" but we were done when we got him.
My gut says he plays on the stage and plays well but not premier pass rusher well. I see him as a "top 5th of the league" as a run defender and "middle of the pack" as a pass rusher, making him a very good player but not a star.
At that point, we assess whether we can keep him with another tag OR let him walk and we hope to get a #3 tag.
I still think we overpaid for him at mid-season simply because he had no more contract left AND I don't know if we had that much competition. I don't think the trade was completely horrible but it certainly would have been fine to have traded for him at the end of pre-season or heck even after 1 or 2 or 3 games even when we were still potentially "in it" but we were done when we got him.
My gut says he plays on the stage and plays well but not premier pass rusher well. I see him as a "top 5th of the league" as a run defender and "middle of the pack" as a pass rusher, making him a very good player but not a star.
if he kills it this year fine tag him again and work out a good deal if you want
more likely is he will be mediocre and will leave after the year and hopefully the giants get a comp pick
if he kills it this year fine tag him again and work out a good deal if you want
more likely is he will be mediocre and will leave after the year and hopefully the giants get a comp pick
Totally agree. Make him earn it. 18-20 million for a DT with no proven track record of consistent pass rush is insane. You are also setting the bar that much higher for the great player that actually deserves that money in the future.
if he kills it this year fine tag him again and work out a good deal if you want
more likely is he will be mediocre and will leave after the year and hopefully the giants get a comp pick
Lets be kind and say he is 90th percentile against the run but perhaps 60th against the pass. If he improves to 70th percentile, he still isn't close to premier.
Play on the tag and see what happens this season is obviously the right answer here. Let’s see if Getty can keep from fucking this up even more than he already has. Doubt it. But let’s see.
Probably why the Giants used the wrong tag on Williams. If they used the Transition Tag, they could of gotten a real market value on Williams, instead of what he thinks he is. Now the Giants don't know what Williams TRUE value is around the league, but they also have to pay him premier DT money for a season when he hasn't produced like one.
Quite a few people on this board kept arguing that the Giants obviously already had a gentleman's agreement with LW when they acquired him -- that of COURSE they wouldn't have traded for him without a contract framework in place that would have been cheaper than if they'd pursued him as an UFA.
It's like these people can't believe the Giants are as capable of making the weird ass mistakes they clearly make often.
No way we give long-term contracts to both, not with Dexter around. We could sign or franchise one, and let the other walk. Or, if we really like both and aren't cap-strapped, we could sign one and franchise the other (not likely but possible). If one walks, hopefully we get a high comp pick. That's how I see this playing out.
Meanwhile Williams needs to show up big time during a "franchise tagged" year.
He or his agent imagines he can receive a long term deal at the annual.cost of the tag?
Bwahahahaha.
Hopefully both Tomlinson and Lawrence flat out out play him this year, and the long term DL money deflects to them.
He's playing with fire...
But it isn't April 22nd. This isn't seeing how dumb Gettleman is. This truly looks like Williams values himself above what we are offering.
Quote:
This was a good trade at any point? The second it happened people were laughing at the giants
Quite a few people on this board kept arguing that the Giants obviously already had a gentleman's agreement with LW when they acquired him -- that of COURSE they wouldn't have traded for him without a contract framework in place that would have been cheaper than if they'd pursued him as an UFA.
It's like these people can't believe the Giants are as capable of making the weird ass mistakes they clearly make often.
A poster on here says he has knowledge that professionals around various NFL management circles praised the move to obtain Williams and referred to DG as pulling off a shrewd deal. So BBI shouldn’t be calling this a mistake.
That's not how comp picks work.
If this report is true and Williams wants that much then the Giants should let him play out this season. He will obviously be motivated to have a huge year to secure the contract that he wants which is obviously good news for the Giants. He will help their defense this year and then land them a high comp pick when he leaves.
The bolded is exactly why it made sense to tag him (along with the fact that there weren't many better uses of $ to acquire talent).
The trade was highly bizarre, but once done the tag was the best option. Minimize risk, retain the talent. They could have untagged him at any point if there was a better use of resource but as expected there wasn't.
Rinse and repeat next offseason if doesn't sign long term.
More often than not it seems like the players who don't seem eager to be on the tag, drag out a hold out and/or don't report until they have to (week 10 I believe) and then are often times a non-factor on the field.
I don't know that him playing on the tag is a win for the Giants especially if he decides not to show up until week 10.
Dude, they clearly meant a gettleman’s agreement. It’s where he says garble, garble, garble, then none of it comes true, but it’s not what he meant so it’s OK, and then something weird happens.
Quote:
Pat Kirwin would always say that about the FT. A team just told the player they value them at least at the tag number if not more. They are right that his value isn't that high but once they did that they lost all leverage. He'd rather play the year out and test FA. The Giants should have let him test FA. The problem is they would want to recoup a third or fourth comp pick. That wasn't happening this year.
The bolded is exactly why it made sense to tag him (along with the fact that there weren't many better uses of $ to acquire talent).
The trade was highly bizarre, but once done the tag was the best option. Minimize risk, retain the talent. They could have untagged him at any point if there was a better use of resource but as expected there wasn't.
Rinse and repeat next offseason if doesn't sign long term.
My point about the tag was that it killed the negotiation. When you tag a guy for roughly 16 mil you are telling the player that you value him at 16 mil or more. That's why I am saying it was the worst thing they could have done. I think we all realize that a deal should have been ironed out as part of the trade not after. I am not saying we shouldn't have tagged him. What I am saying is it was the worst thing for negotiating. And the Giants could have allowed him to shop himself to get an understanding of what he's worth.
More often than not it seems like the players who don't seem eager to be on the tag, drag out a hold out and/or don't report until they have to (week 10 I believe) and then are often times a non-factor on the field.
I don't know that him playing on the tag is a win for the Giants especially if he decides not to show up until week 10.
He already signed his tag. When players have held out in the past (Gordon and Bell - even JPP here) they were refusing to sign the tag. I believe both sides have been quoted as not having issues with the tag.
Williams play on the field will be whatever it is. The contract he plays on has very little impact on that so long as he plays, and in a normal season he'd have very little leverage to not play (C-19 is an unknown that could impact his decision).
And in a future offseason where a comp pick is more possible the team's risk is hedged and leverage is increased to not tag him and let him shop the market as you described.
I would not be opposed to a long term deal right now if the price is really fair but we are working with limited info on the player relative to other teams who have typically had their tagged players for multiple seasons. As much as our scouts may like him he needs to more firmly establish his value on the field.