Williams is looking for premier pass rusher money, between $18 to $20 million annually.
Gettleman is all in on Williams, but others in the organization may not be.
The two sides have until July 15th to work out a long term deal, or play on the franchise tag for the year.
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If this has been posted, I will delete.
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recent history disagrees. They did really well to negotiate their comp pick for Collins last year even with signing Tate and a few others. The new regime has done very well with the comp pick system and while it's not the primary motivator of this decision it is a factor that can't be ignored.
At some point this LW deal needs to grow up and you know...be an adult.
He signed his tag and hasn't been a squeaky wheel publicly threatening to skip camp until he gets a new deal. He didn't ask to get traded for, or tagged. If he and his agent think he's worth as much as Grady Jarrett they might end up wrong but it's not crazy. He was the last run stuffing DT who got tagged after his first contract so the contract extension he signed on July 15th of last year before camp while tagged would seem to be a reasonable ask at the moment.
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At some point this LW deal needs to grow up and you know...be an adult.
He signed his tag and hasn't been a squeaky wheel publicly threatening to skip camp until he gets a new deal. He didn't ask to get traded for, or tagged. If he and his agent think he's worth as much as Grady Jarrett they might end up wrong but it's not crazy. He was the last run stuffing DT who got tagged after his first contract so the contract extension he signed on July 15th of last year before camp while tagged would seem to be a reasonable ask at the moment.
I am not blaming LW at all. He is doing what is in his best interest. And the Giants keep responding with something that tries to keep this ridiculous thing alive.
It should have never happened. Or it should have just happened in normal free agency dealings and been done.
An example of how not to run a club.
I still think trading for him that late was perhaps a mistake but given all the positive posts I'll hold out judgment until the end of this year - assuming we have some kind of year!
I am not blaming LW at all. He is doing what is in his best interest. And the Giants keep responding with something that tries to keep this ridiculous thing alive.
It should have never happened. Or it should have just happened in normal free agency dealings and been done.
An example of how not to run a club.
I think that remains to be seen to a degree. I thought the same thing about the Cowboys trading a 1 for Cooper - and I was still a big Cooper fan at that point. It just seemed like a bizarre deal. Then he was an instant fit with Dak who has since justified both the trade a huge extension without ever hitting UFA for any teams that may have wanted him but didn't want to trade for him.
I'm not saying that makes this trade or any in season trade by a team going nowhere good move, just that the results are still TBD. If LW returns to his pro bowl form and leads a good defense this year and beyond I won't mind as much that we didn't have a 3rd rd pick this year.
So we wait and see if two draft picks and $20M+ were just pissed away for a season and a half when the team wasn’t going anywhere anyway during this time.
If the Giants are going to invest 30M+ in Williams over the next two years in franchise tags, they should at a minimum gain the option for a 3rd year of control.
The Bradberry deal is a great model — ~32M guaranteed money with 43 overall. The Giants can either choose to pay him for the 3rd year or walk away with minimal dead money.
BUT, as so often happens around here sone have lost perspective and it has been blown into something way larger than it actually is. People act as though they spent a first rounder.
They rolled the dice. Can we stop whining about it yet?
I suppose not since I still need to hear about Linval Joseph at least a couple times a year.
Out of all the other shit that gets discussed on here, this is probably the one thing that should be discussed.
On that I think he's right. But getting to the discussion because I agree with you, it is probably the most worthy of a discussion right now. Here's a hypothetical choice for anyone interested in partaking, which would you prefer:
option 1 - play the season on tag.
option 2 - sign him to the same deal Grady Jarrett got last year (4/68m/42.5m gtd). So essentially a 3/52m extension tacked on top of the tag plus an extra 26m guaranteed.
Jarrett as mentioned was tagged as a DT and signed on 7/15 right before camp making him a direct recent comp to Williams situation. The fact that both were tagged at the same level by their respective teams implies their values on the field as similar and while DT stats are somewhat limited their production is comparable too. Both produced more behind the LOS (TFL, sacks, pressures, hits) than Reader/Hargrave so I think it's a lot more realistic of a comp right now than the latter 2 deals.
If the Giants are going to invest 30M+ in Williams over the next two years in franchise tags, they should at a minimum gain the option for a 3rd year of control.
The Bradberry deal is a great model — ~32M guaranteed money with 43 overall. The Giants can either choose to pay him for the 3rd year or walk away with minimal dead money.
Agree Christian. Unless they work out a team friendly deal it seems more financially prudent to tag him for two years if necessary.
BUT, as so often happens around here sone have lost perspective and it has been blown into something way larger than it actually is. People act as though they spent a first rounder.
They rolled the dice. Can we stop whining about it yet?
I suppose not since I still need to hear about Linval Joseph at least a couple times a year.
4-12 teams rolling the dice on a silly deal deserve to be whined at by their fans.
As do fans that think they have perspective but are really just complacent.
BUT, as so often happens around here sone have lost perspective and it has been blown into something way larger than it actually is. People act as though they spent a first rounder.
They rolled the dice. Can we stop whining about it yet?
I suppose not since I still need to hear about Linval Joseph at least a couple times a year.
+1
This is the "look at me" affect that BBI has on some of the folks here.
BUT, as so often happens around here sone have lost perspective and it has been blown into something way larger than it actually is. People act as though they spent a first rounder.
They rolled the dice. Can we stop whining about it yet?
I suppose not since I still need to hear about Linval Joseph at least a couple times a year.
It's worth whining about on principle alone. Bad teams should be looking to acquire draft capital, not trade it away, especially not for an unexceptional player who expects to get paid like an exceptional one. It wasn't just "a bad deal," it was a monumentally bad deal on several levels.
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was a bad deal
BUT, as so often happens around here sone have lost perspective and it has been blown into something way larger than it actually is. People act as though they spent a first rounder.
They rolled the dice. Can we stop whining about it yet?
I suppose not since I still need to hear about Linval Joseph at least a couple times a year.
+1
This is the "look at me" affect that BBI has on some of the folks here.
-1
The Giants want to be on the patient side. I think the reasonable middle ground here is that DJ showed some promise and if he hits it covers up what appear to be large errors in judgement and process as of now. I agree that if DJ becomes a star and Barkley stays healthy and a top back in this league this offense could be great. We could form a winning team around those two and heavy investment in OL and defense.
There are other stories though, there is the story where DJ is a star but we don't win BECAUSE of the assets we invested in a position with declining relative positional value like RB and both draft picks and too much money in an upper middle level player.
If DJ doesn't hit this is likely to be the worst period in franchise history.
I think to how Frank Costanza once screamed at George Steinbrenner in an episode of Seinfeld, “How could you give $12 million to Hideki Irabu?!!!" while his son was on trial.
This is the NY sports market. You get to be deified if you stand out a winner and never ending ridicule if the opposite is true.
DG made some moves that went against more modern theories of team building. If in doing that he builds a winner, I'll be here waving the pom poms with everyone. If he doesn't, if some of these moves keep looking every bit as head scratching as people were able to say immediately with far less information and resources than him, there isn't enough ink to spill about it.
This kind of update makes this deal even more frustrating. What exactly are people suggesting. We ignore this thread? we come here and say well that's an honest mistake?
Sorry. No. Many pointed out at the time of this trade that we were putting ourselves in a pretty terrible position in terms of leverage with LW and as was also suggested he is using every bit of it. It's the job of a good management team to anticipate these things not be victims of it.
It’s a tough sale if the outcome is a 3rd, 5th and 18M for 24 games.
You look at the offseason now as it’s almost wrapped up, and it’s clear he was a priority and a part of the plan. If you can’t get him under team control for 3 years, bad on the GM.
It’s a tough sale if the outcome is a 3rd, 5th and 18M for 24 games.
You look at the offseason now as it’s almost wrapped up, and it’s clear he was a priority and a part of the plan. If you can’t get him under team control for 3 years, bad on the GM.
I'd still rather have the flexibility than the 3rd year, but maybe that's just the recent memory of being wrong about Landon Collins and that situation having worked out for the best.
The Bradberry deal is the perfect example — the Giants either keep him for 2 years at ~30M or 3 years at ~44M. That’s a great contract for both sides.
It takes two of course, but it’s within the realm of possibilities, and it’s a better outcome for the Giants. I’d much rather the Giants sign Williams to a 3/48 with 35 guaranteed than effectively 2/32 with 32 guaranteed.
The Bradberry deal is the perfect example — the Giants either keep him for 2 years at ~30M or 3 years at ~44M. That’s a great contract for both sides.
It takes two of course, but it’s within the realm of possibilities, and it’s a better outcome for the Giants. I’d much rather the Giants sign Williams to a 3/48 with 35 guaranteed than effectively 2/32 with 32 guaranteed.
That makes sense and I suspect the reason that deal isn't done is that he wants something closer to what Jarrett got and a 4th year.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they meet somewhere in the middle in the next few weeks. If I were a player facing an unknown season and I was in a city I wanted to be in I'd rather take the guaranteed security now - even if it ends up a little bit below whatever target I'd set for myself going in. 4 years / 60m-66m seems like a fair deal for both sides. That would make Williams the 6th highest paid DT, 1 spot ahead of DJ Reader by a few million and close behind Atkins/Jarrett/Cox. Buckner and Donald are the top 2 and even LW admitted he knows he's not on that tier a while back.
Deadlines spur action and that's exactly how the most comparable recent extension happened last year (Jarrett). Perhaps LW was comfortable trying to prove himself this year, but nothing short of double digit sack year is getting him paid like Buckner/Donald (and that may not even get it done). And now add in the extra risk of the season just being interrupted in general. If there's an offer around $60m on the table he'd be wise to take it, but I'm not so sure there is. I suppose we will find out in the next couple weeks.
If he is a cornerstone player then Gettleman should probably give him the $18M per year.
Except, of course...he's not.
7 days left.
Judge is definitely the swing vote here. If he likes him I think he will get signed in the next week. If he's uncertain I think he plays on the tag.
We saw with Jones that Judge's original blank slate posture was a little bit of fluff and after a certain point he was willing to articulate strong opinions on the roster prior to getting fully on the field. As you said, his team faced Williams a number of times in his career so he should have a relatively informed opinion.
If the Cowboys had made this trade there would be a 1000 post thread laughing our asses off at what an idiot Jerry Jones is.
There is NO OTHER TRADE LIKE THIS IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL since free agency started.
Remember when the Jets traded two mid rounds picks, one that turned out to be a top 70 pick, for a guy who would be a free agent in 8 games let alone when they were 2-6? Or the Browns? Or the Redskins? Or the Jags? Cards? Bueller? Any of the joke NFL franchises ever do this?
Nope. NONE. NOT ONE.
But carry on.