The other shoe was going to drop soon for fall classes at college and the eventual impact on NCAA sports.
Rutgers decided to go remote classes for the fall. Harvard was ahead of the curve in March when they went online and sent everyone home. IMO, Harvard will be ahead of the curve again by shutting it all down now and we will eventually see most Universities do the same.
Now I'm not going to get into the question of the costs not changing for online, that's a different discussion. But I'd have to imagine that we will see this trickle down to High Schools as well.
Personally, my son is a rising senior in high school so I'm kind of bummed that his senior year will likely be impacted just like this past senior class was. Maybe things will open up next Spring better for prom/graduation.
But back to college, I don't see how you can have NCAA sports if the students are not on campus.
My daughter's college is doing the same thing.
Sports at both colleges is (at the moment) going forward for the Fall.
That said, as to the OP's point about having sports with students not on campus, Harvard will have students on campus, at least that's their plan as of now. They're aiming for 40% of undergrads, including all freshman, being housed on campus this fall.
This past Spring it was not.
Right now my kids who will be Freshman in college (one in a southern state school and one in a private Northeast college) each have one online course.
if they try and change it to virtual I am not paying - (they'll take gap years or just get jobs) unless I get a better sense for the value. College is overpriced to begin with if they're getting quality education it's even worse.
That said, as to the OP's point about having sports with students not on campus, Harvard will have students on campus, at least that's their plan as of now. They're aiming for 40% of undergrads, including all freshman, being housed on campus this fall.
That multi-billion dollar endowment survive without the residential fees...../sarcasm. If you already know all the classes are online why would anyone pay the outrageous room and board fees? I think it's almost $10,000 per semester for room and board.
And how does science support 40% capacity in residence halls but no face to face learning (you know - the reason the people are living in the residence halls)
Millering, but... my MSU niece and nephew are COVID-positive (they did NOT go to that bar, though). Tested - confirmed. Now both parents and other sibling, with whom they have been holed up for weeks, have exact same symptoms, but they are not going to bother to get tested. That's two cases tested/reported, and three cases not. My point -- any notion this disease is being OVERreported and exaggerated is bullshit.
Millering, but... my MSU niece and nephew are COVID-positive (they did NOT go to that bar, though). Tested - confirmed. Now both parents and other sibling, with whom they have been holed up for weeks, have exact same symptoms, but they are not going to bother to get tested. That's two cases tested/reported, and three cases not. My point -- any notion this disease is being OVERreported and exaggerated is bullshit.
Damn. My prayers for a speedy and complete recovery for all of them.
That said, I can see how courses that are my discussion based are much harder to transition to online. As someone who's also WFH for 10 years, it's definitely harder to "read the room" and encourage lively discussions with Zoom/Teams/etc than with everyone sitting around the table.
God some dorm rooms/ apartments my friends lived in were the exact opposite of cleanly. The virus is going to spread rapidly in the college environment.
That said, I can see how courses that are my discussion based are much harder to transition to online. As someone who's also WFH for 10 years, it's definitely harder to "read the room" and encourage lively discussions with Zoom/Teams/etc than with everyone sitting around the table.
Got my Masters via a virtual classroom. I was a little apprehensive at first, but after the first couple of weeks it was almost better than being in a real lecture. I didn’t have to rush to a classroom. I just needed to have my computer booted up and ready.
It’s all about how you structure the class. My professors built in participation grades, so when they posed a question to the class people would talk up. That’s really the key, stressing participation and making it clear that part of your grade is dependent on your ability to participate in the discussion. As long as the professor builds their class the right way with questions it’s fine. I had classes for 3 straight hours and I loved it.
But more to the point of this OP....
college freshmen (in my experience) are even less prepared for online courses (as a whole) and need some face to face interaction to learn how to prepare, how to study, how to handle the largely independent learning - this is with face to face instruction.
Upper classmen and masters classes sure, have them all online you have a couple years of college under your belt by then and you know how to "learn".
just my opinion.
And having freshman required to live on campus but having all online courses is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard. I don't understand why anyone would do that. I can't believe that is following science, more like following money.
One of my kids is going to an SEC school and they will be headed down August 10, I believe sports teams are planning to have already been there well before then.
But more to the point of this OP....
college freshmen (in my experience) are even less prepared for online courses (as a whole) and need some face to face interaction to learn how to prepare, how to study, how to handle the largely independent learning - this is with face to face instruction.
Upper classmen and masters classes sure, have them all online you have a couple years of college under your belt by then and you know how to "learn".
just my opinion.
And having freshman required to live on campus but having all online courses is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard. I don't understand why anyone would do that. I can't believe that is following science, more like following money.
all about the do re mi pjcas. collect that room and board $$
But more to the point of this OP....
college freshmen (in my experience) are even less prepared for online courses (as a whole) and need some face to face interaction to learn how to prepare, how to study, how to handle the largely independent learning - this is with face to face instruction.
Upper classmen and masters classes sure, have them all online you have a couple years of college under your belt by then and you know how to "learn".
just my opinion.
And having freshman required to live on campus but having all online courses is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard. I don't understand why anyone would do that. I can't believe that is following science, more like following money.
I get what you are saying, but in a post COVID world there are going to much more work from home jobs then there going to be true office environments. Don’t you think most people need to learn how to work that way? Businesses were trending this way before COViD and COVID basically ripped the band-aid off. More production, less overhead.
but absolutely it can prepare people to work from home. I've worked from home since 2007 and even then though, before just being thrown into a work from home role, I spent time in an office learning the ropes.
Classes over certain sizes will be virtual.
In Waterville, Maine is opening two weeks early (mid-August) and will end on Thanksgiving. There will be restrictions in place about students leaving the campus, as well as visitors. Students will be tested for Covid-19 before school starts and then regularly tested twice a week (PCR). Students will also have to answer questions via an app (I believe) once a day.
They want to do a "phased" reopening, with staff self-reporting any medical issues (e.g., temperature, COVID symptoms) daily and mandatory mask requirements. They are waiting for approval from the state to start reopening. I've been working remotely since the third week in March.
In fact herd immunity appears to have been achieved in NYC already, as I haven't heard a peep about COVID in 6 weeks. And I treat patients in the Bronx, in one of the highest infected zip codes in the country. March and April were really bad, and it is now gone.
In fact herd immunity appears to have been achieved in NYC already, as I haven't heard a peep about COVID in 6 weeks. And I treat patients in the Bronx, in one of the highest infected zip codes in the country. March and April were really bad, and it is now gone.
Herd immunity is considered to be 60-70% of the population having the virus (with no ability to be reinfected). Neither of those conditions have been met, in NYC or anywhere else.
You are mistaking rate of growth (the paths many states are seeing) and levels (what fraction of the population that has the disease).
Plus, no one has any idea the long-term impacts that this disease has on the lungs, kidneys, heart, and brain. So, yes, while hospitalization and mortality rates may be reasonably close to zero for the college-aged population, long-term issues may arise later in life.
There are pretty significant downsides to the move towards online teaching.
1. IT staff on college campuses is generally not sufficient. In addition, a lot of the lower level IT staff is suitably underqualified.
2. Difficulty of transitioning certain lecture styles to online.
3. The "experience" in college; there's traditionally a lot more freedom to explore topics that may not be able to be touched upon in high school courses or elsewhere, which is why freshmen may suffer this year.
On the flip side, faculty need as early notice as possible. It sucks, but waiting to see if you can hold on campus courses degrades the quality of the online education. For me, a typical 75 minute lecture takes about 4x that amount for recording, trouble shooting, and converting.
Most Universities where our town s seniors have enrolled are beginning in the fall.
Not surprised that Harvard has already cancelled for the year. We will see who is making the correct decision.
In fact herd immunity appears to have been achieved in NYC already, as I haven't heard a peep about COVID in 6 weeks. And I treat patients in the Bronx, in one of the highest infected zip codes in the country. March and April were really bad, and it is now gone.
Wow, just wow.
Most Universities where our town s seniors have enrolled are beginning in the fall.
Not surprised that Harvard has already cancelled for the year. We will see who is making the correct decision.
Fauci's comments were pretty much exclusively related to K-12, not college...
Quote:
Stated a couple weeks ago, we have to get our kids back to school. Most school districts in PA are planning on doing so.
Most Universities where our town s seniors have enrolled are beginning in the fall.
Not surprised that Harvard has already cancelled for the year. We will see who is making the correct decision.
Fauci's comments were pretty much exclusively related to K-12, not college...
I am aware Fauci was referring to school age children. The OP stated he believes the high schools will follow Harvard s example.
That said, I can see how courses that are my discussion based are much harder to transition to online. As someone who's also WFH for 10 years, it's definitely harder to "read the room" and encourage lively discussions with Zoom/Teams/etc than with everyone sitting around the table.
unfortunately, online classes are still new to this world and traditional schooling is still considered the norm. I took my bachelors online for my IT degree and the classes were all legit. Instead of tests to pass the finals, I had to get certifications from respected organizations like Microsoft / Comptia and Cisco.
When I finished I talked to my boss about possibly getting reimbursed and he said "Well, you didn't attend, so you really didn't go to college" Dumb fucker... I'm a little jaded when people discount online learning. It's not great for teenagers and kids, because they don't give a shit. But for adults with full time jobs and families, it's a life saver. And it only cost 10k so eat me!
My 12 year old (no shit not a made up thing) said to me she's nervous about 8th grade math because to this point every year math built on the prior grades principles and she didn't learn one thing in math since March.
Even most of her other subjects were subpar and we live in a town with a good school system.
I don't blame faculty or students, it was an unforeseen circumstance, but both faculty and students need to better prepare for online learning now that it will become a reality.
In the case of a professional taking classes or even a grad student, sure you are there by choice and are seasoned you should put all the pressure on yourself that you need.
my concern was with college freshman (unique situation for college kids in their first exposure to the freedoms of college and new learning) and below.
In fact herd immunity appears to have been achieved in NYC already, as I haven't heard a peep about COVID in 6 weeks. And I treat patients in the Bronx, in one of the highest infected zip codes in the country. March and April were really bad, and it is now gone.
This post is so uninformed at every level, almost every phrase is wrong.
In fact herd immunity appears to have been achieved in NYC already, as I haven't heard a peep about COVID in 6 weeks. And I treat patients in the Bronx, in one of the highest infected zip codes in the country. March and April were really bad, and it is now gone.
Its amazing how incorrect your thoughts are on here. 1st, no chance herd immunity has been reached in NYC - the percentages needed to achieve that are simply not possible yet. As of July 5th they've had 217,000 confirmed cases. Now, not everyone has been tested yet but the math is still way off, not even close in fact.
Second, students on campus work off campus jobs, go to off campus venues, go back home, etc. - they are extremely social. While many won't get sick and die they will get infected and spread it, that's the worry. Its amazing that it still needs to be explained.
As for the thread, going back to live on campus but for 100% online classes is ridiculous. If there's any industry that needs a reset its College and i'm hoping a ton of students pull out of campus living, go online only, and disrupt the norm. Tuition can't keep going on like this, its criminal.
Did I see that wrong?
No College Football = No TV Income or Megabucks Booster Income. Colleges are hooked on that. And it's not like College Football hasn't cut corners with classes for Athletes (North Carolina anyone? Dexter Manley?) in order to field teams.
I'll just quote the immortal Groucho Marx on this subject:
Wagstaff: If there was a snake, you'd apologize. Where would this college be without football? Have we got a stadium?
The Professors: Yes.
Wagstaff: Have we got a college?
The Professors: Yes.
Wagstaff: Well, we can't support both. Tomorrow we start tearing down the college.
The Professors: But Professor. Where will the students sleep?
Wagstaff: Where they always sleep. In the classroom.
Thanks for the clarification. I heard tuition will stay teh same though