IMO with Lavy (among others) out there but a lot of bad opinions on this thread.
Yep I agree thats why while as a Devs fan I was critical in my post I was careful not to totally blast it because #1 he has a very good record and #2 I don't usually jump to quick conclusions on coaching hires because often you look stupid in the end. If there was a BBI in '96 a lot of people would have wanted to jump off a bridge on here when the Yanks hired Joe Torre. That having been said I agree as I posted, with Lavs and Gallant out there its a curious hire to say the least. The Ranger fans on here acting like he is the direct reason he lost every game they lost as an Asst coach is laughable.
Is David Quinn an idiot? Does he know nothing about hockey and
I find the Ruff bashing a bit overdone. Perhaps the lack of talent/defensive inadequacies of both our defensemen AND forwards contributed to our poor stats in that arena. Perhaps Quinn knows more than we do about Ruff’s competence, as do the Devils.
Armchair quarterbacking is always rife with sports fans. But a little humility might sometimes be in order.
His stint as defensive coach with the Rangers was an unmitigated failure. And that was with good goaltending between the pipes.
Blather on about bad opinions but the numbers don't lie. Did he have a good run as a head coach a while back? Yes. Did any of that history manifest itself as a coach here? No.
I do like they are taking Fitgerald's interim tag off as GM
I wouldn’t call it bad but it’s underwhelming. Gallant would have been a perfect fit with his style. Lavy was my second choice with Ruff #3.
Ruff has had success in the past when given talent. Ruff now has a potential young star in Jack Hughes to go along with Nico Hischier.
I laugh at the comments about the Devils defense getting worse. Clearly these people haven’t seen the Devils under Hynes.
As for GM Fitzgerald does deserve to keep the job. He made some solid trades especially the haul he received for Blake Coleman. I was upset to see him go but to land a prospect like Nolan Foote along with a 1st round pick is a great return. Coleman also is a free agent after next season so he will receive a substantial raise.
Could work out great for Devils, he did a good job with the Rangers which is why he is getting this opportunity, Fox and DeAngelo both had sensational seasons and the Rangers had the highest scoring defense in the NHL, despite having slugs like Staal and Smith, he did great work with Neal Pionk, he also has an excellent record as head coach, and I am pretty sure he should be able to put together a good staff with all his experience and great reputation in the NHL. Sometimes an organization needs the experienced guy to come in, I wish Ruff a lot of luck.
for all of the Rangers' defensive failings. I do, however, think this is addition by subtraction, as Ruff seemed unable or unwilling to come up with effective defense pairings. It may be Quinn's system, but Ruff did not maximize the players' performance within the confines of that system. Per Dan Rosen, Gord Murphy will be coming up from Hartford to fill the vacancy on the Rangers' bench.
RE: Is David Quinn an idiot? Does he know nothing about hockey and
I find the Ruff bashing a bit overdone. Perhaps the lack of talent/defensive inadequacies of both our defensemen AND forwards contributed to our poor stats in that arena. Perhaps Quinn knows more than we do about Ruff’s competence, as do the Devils.
Armchair quarterbacking is always rife with sports fans. But a little humility might sometimes be in order.
I was a harsh Ruff critic, but you're right. It's not like Ruff is running the defense and Quinn is completely ignoring it.
Plus, TDA and Fox are young players who have flourished under him. Does he deserve no credit for that?
With that said, I am excited to see fresh blood back there and am glad NJD didn't hire Laviolette or Gallant.
His stint as defensive coach with the Rangers was an unmitigated failure. And that was with good goaltending between the pipes.
Blather on about bad opinions but the numbers don't lie. Did he have a good run as a head coach a while back? Yes. Did any of that history manifest itself as a coach here? No.
What exactly were Ruff's responsibilities?
Before you blather on about metrics please share what you're measuring. "both traditional and metrics", whatever that means.
I play on two men's league teams currently, so combined about 25 men in their 30's and 40's, some played low level pro (ECHL the best) some juniors, some college, all high school or equivalent. Not one could list the responsibilities of an assistant coach, who is in charge of the D in the NHL to know how to measure them.
As the lead defensive specialist coach he works on the PK, zone exits, how the HC wants to handle picking up the puck in our own end and where to go with it once they have it. Yeah I played the game for 20 years between the pipes too if you want to get into a stick measuring contest.
Over two different head coaches and two different systems here those elements of playing D in one form or another were in large part his responsibility. Getting the best out of his guys and helping to develop young players is also part of it and he was lousy at that too. Barring Fox who arguably came into the league as ready to contribute as ant D-man in the last five years I can't name a player he got the best out of while here. And don't even mention DeAngelo you can count the good defensive plays he's made on one hand.
If it looks like a duck and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck it's ...a duck. When you watch and play enough hockey you should be able to recognize bad defense when you see it. Ruff was a lousy coach for the Rangers.
I go back and forth on him. They were playing good hockey at points. We agree on Howden, for sure, for example. I'm willing to give him more time.
I also think people ignore how important the forwards are for a sustainable defensive system. The Rangers don't have a great group of defensive forwards, imo.
How exactly does a zone exit work without a breakout? Or do you claim Ruff owns the breakouts?
Hockey is a game of systems. Breakouts, forecheck, neutral zone, faceoff, and specials (basically speaking).
As a coach myself, I have spoken about this to many coaches, even at the NHL level (or former NHL for now) and all basically say the head coach implements the system.
Ruff can't possibly create a system of zone exists on his own without working with AV or Quinn on a breakout - the D has to know where the center and wings will be or it all fails.
Some coaches have C and W crisscross and give the D 4 outlets - hit the C cutting to the boards, hit the W cutting into the middle, reverse it D to D or skate it out.
Other coaches have different schemes. And some coaches - maybe in NY, try and keep it really simple for the forwards (if they're young) and put more on the D.
But I watch enough Rangers games to see their issues are at least 75% personnel. When Ruff was hired as an assistant (not sure if he even had D responsibility right away), the Rangers top 6 D were McDonagh, Skjei, Shattenkirk, Smith and Staal with Pionk/Holden as the 6th.
And you want to blame the assistant coach in charge of the D for zone exist failures or any measure?
And that personnel group hasn't gotten better since Ruff has been in NY. after the first year McDonagh was traded and replaced "full time" by DeAngelo and Adam McQuaid, LOL. and then you saw last year with Fox, etc. finally creeping into the mix and more of a role for TDA But you want to blame the coach?
I don't like Ruff as a head coach - his style was definitely more "wide open" than someone like AV or Julien, but average fans even someone who played goalie for 20 years trying to blame an assistant coach with positional responsibility in the NHL like an NFL coordinator is off base IMO.
He may have sucked, but none of us know unless you know what Ruff instituted vs Quinn - and I believe it's mostly Quinn.
And I'm not a Ruff fan.
But also to say Ruff only succeeded with talent as a HC is silly too. Look at that Sabres team who lost in the SCF on the Hull "no goal" and match up those two teams talent. lol, It was Hasek, Satan, and Peca. That's the talent he was "handed" to try and make it to the SCF and lost on the most controversial SCF goal in history.
Link - ( New Window )
Wow I didn’t realize they were that bad defensively this year
Yep I agree thats why while as a Devs fan I was critical in my post I was careful not to totally blast it because #1 he has a very good record and #2 I don't usually jump to quick conclusions on coaching hires because often you look stupid in the end. If there was a BBI in '96 a lot of people would have wanted to jump off a bridge on here when the Yanks hired Joe Torre. That having been said I agree as I posted, with Lavs and Gallant out there its a curious hire to say the least. The Ranger fans on here acting like he is the direct reason he lost every game they lost as an Asst coach is laughable.
I find the Ruff bashing a bit overdone. Perhaps the lack of talent/defensive inadequacies of both our defensemen AND forwards contributed to our poor stats in that arena. Perhaps Quinn knows more than we do about Ruff’s competence, as do the Devils.
Armchair quarterbacking is always rife with sports fans. But a little humility might sometimes be in order.
Quote:
IMO with Lavy (among others) out there but a lot of bad opinions on this thread.
The Ranger fans on here acting like he is the direct reason he lost every game they lost as an Asst coach is laughable.
No one said that, but it's a proven fact that he's a terrible defensive coach
Blather on about bad opinions but the numbers don't lie. Did he have a good run as a head coach a while back? Yes. Did any of that history manifest itself as a coach here? No.
Ruff has had success in the past when given talent. Ruff now has a potential young star in Jack Hughes to go along with Nico Hischier.
I laugh at the comments about the Devils defense getting worse. Clearly these people haven’t seen the Devils under Hynes.
As for GM Fitzgerald does deserve to keep the job. He made some solid trades especially the haul he received for Blake Coleman. I was upset to see him go but to land a prospect like Nolan Foote along with a 1st round pick is a great return. Coleman also is a free agent after next season so he will receive a substantial raise.
I find the Ruff bashing a bit overdone. Perhaps the lack of talent/defensive inadequacies of both our defensemen AND forwards contributed to our poor stats in that arena. Perhaps Quinn knows more than we do about Ruff’s competence, as do the Devils.
Armchair quarterbacking is always rife with sports fans. But a little humility might sometimes be in order.
I was a harsh Ruff critic, but you're right. It's not like Ruff is running the defense and Quinn is completely ignoring it.
Plus, TDA and Fox are young players who have flourished under him. Does he deserve no credit for that?
With that said, I am excited to see fresh blood back there and am glad NJD didn't hire Laviolette or Gallant.
Blather on about bad opinions but the numbers don't lie. Did he have a good run as a head coach a while back? Yes. Did any of that history manifest itself as a coach here? No.
What exactly were Ruff's responsibilities?
Before you blather on about metrics please share what you're measuring. "both traditional and metrics", whatever that means.
I play on two men's league teams currently, so combined about 25 men in their 30's and 40's, some played low level pro (ECHL the best) some juniors, some college, all high school or equivalent. Not one could list the responsibilities of an assistant coach, who is in charge of the D in the NHL to know how to measure them.
But Torrag on BBI knows.
Over two different head coaches and two different systems here those elements of playing D in one form or another were in large part his responsibility. Getting the best out of his guys and helping to develop young players is also part of it and he was lousy at that too. Barring Fox who arguably came into the league as ready to contribute as ant D-man in the last five years I can't name a player he got the best out of while here. And don't even mention DeAngelo you can count the good defensive plays he's made on one hand.
If it looks like a duck and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck it's ...a duck. When you watch and play enough hockey you should be able to recognize bad defense when you see it. Ruff was a lousy coach for the Rangers.
I go back and forth on him. They were playing good hockey at points. We agree on Howden, for sure, for example. I'm willing to give him more time.
I also think people ignore how important the forwards are for a sustainable defensive system. The Rangers don't have a great group of defensive forwards, imo.
How exactly does a zone exit work without a breakout? Or do you claim Ruff owns the breakouts?
Hockey is a game of systems. Breakouts, forecheck, neutral zone, faceoff, and specials (basically speaking).
As a coach myself, I have spoken about this to many coaches, even at the NHL level (or former NHL for now) and all basically say the head coach implements the system.
Ruff can't possibly create a system of zone exists on his own without working with AV or Quinn on a breakout - the D has to know where the center and wings will be or it all fails.
Some coaches have C and W crisscross and give the D 4 outlets - hit the C cutting to the boards, hit the W cutting into the middle, reverse it D to D or skate it out.
Other coaches have different schemes. And some coaches - maybe in NY, try and keep it really simple for the forwards (if they're young) and put more on the D.
But I watch enough Rangers games to see their issues are at least 75% personnel. When Ruff was hired as an assistant (not sure if he even had D responsibility right away), the Rangers top 6 D were McDonagh, Skjei, Shattenkirk, Smith and Staal with Pionk/Holden as the 6th.
And you want to blame the assistant coach in charge of the D for zone exist failures or any measure?
And that personnel group hasn't gotten better since Ruff has been in NY. after the first year McDonagh was traded and replaced "full time" by DeAngelo and Adam McQuaid, LOL. and then you saw last year with Fox, etc. finally creeping into the mix and more of a role for TDA But you want to blame the coach?
I don't like Ruff as a head coach - his style was definitely more "wide open" than someone like AV or Julien, but average fans even someone who played goalie for 20 years trying to blame an assistant coach with positional responsibility in the NHL like an NFL coordinator is off base IMO.
He may have sucked, but none of us know unless you know what Ruff instituted vs Quinn - and I believe it's mostly Quinn.
And I'm not a Ruff fan.
But also to say Ruff only succeeded with talent as a HC is silly too. Look at that Sabres team who lost in the SCF on the Hull "no goal" and match up those two teams talent. lol, It was Hasek, Satan, and Peca. That's the talent he was "handed" to try and make it to the SCF and lost on the most controversial SCF goal in history.
How far into next season would it be the new asst coaches fault
What? Pionk didn’t develop well until he left Ruff’s system for Winnipeg.
dare I ask what he did?
Jay got banned? He's maybe the nicest guy on the whole site.
I use an aol account for this site: pjcas18@aol.com
Quote:
pjcas, do you have an email our fallen brethren Jay in Toronto can reach you by? He was banned and wanted to reach out to you.
dare I ask what he did?
He posted an article from the NYT on the anthem after the 4th of July.
(I didn't see the article or the thread)
Thanks, pj.
Awkward, Greg and I are right here.
Quote:
He's maybe the nicest guy on the whole site.
Awkward, Greg and I are right here.
LOL, Greg, of course I meant besides Greg. Most people think nice and BBI obviously Greg comes to mind.
And you.