and truthfully why any player would feel that way because there are almost definitely many more in the position he's in with family members at a higher risk than we know. But I'd imagine a significant chunk of the responses will include the words 'overpaid pussy'.
Same with MLB. These athletes are going to be out & about with the rest of society. And even if they are hunkering down when not at the facility, they probably live with someone who is going out.
The thought of a 25 year old guy living like a monk for months upon end doesn't seem too realistic to me. Someone will get it & next thing you know, others on the team have it. And even if they feel fine, I can't see the NFL letting them play until it's resolved.
In short, it's a mess. And it sucks.
If the Asian baseball teams and the European Soccer leagues
and it’s played in colder weather, that isn’t a good mix. The players have every right to demand the safest possible work environment. I do it with my employer, why shouldn’t they?
because a lot of players need the money. the guys you hear griping are solder, malcolm jenkins, etc. these guys have made theirs. i can't imagine all the players are on the same page with wanting to play or not.
this is all negotiating in public. they will end up at daily testing, 1-2 preseason games, and some agreement on speading the cap changes in future years over the length of the CBA
i am surprised that they aren't going to a bubble idea though
certainly there are high end hotels near the stadiums that the players and their families can stay at during the season if they were so inclined to do so
RE: RE: If the Asian baseball teams and the European Soccer leagues
are able to restart and play, then why can’t our overpaid prima donnas figure out a way to also do it?
What a crock of entitled-sounding horseshit.
Football is completely fucking unnecessary.
How about we trot your fat ass out there to catch covid?
Nice post. Have a bad day? Football is completely unnecessary and so is acting like you were personally wronged. Man you go off the deep end a lot.
You would be better off pointing out that Baseball isn't really a contact sport(except the ball) and that American football is all contact all the time.
RE: i am surprised that they aren't going to a bubble idea though
certainly there are high end hotels near the stadiums that the players and their families can stay at during the season if they were so inclined to do so
I don’t think it’s possible to be honest. You are talking 100’s of people per team and then telling them they can’t see their families for 4-6 months. That won’t fly with too many players.
It’ll work for the NBA but it’s far less people and a much shorter timeframe. Those guys wouldn’t do it either over a full season.
RE: RE: If the Asian baseball teams and the European Soccer leagues
because a lot of players need the money. the guys you hear griping are solder, malcolm jenkins, etc. these guys have made theirs. i can't imagine all the players are on the same page with wanting to play or not.
this is all negotiating in public. they will end up at daily testing, 1-2 preseason games, and some agreement on speading the cap changes in future years over the length of the CBA
It has nothing to do with how much they've made. They are NFLPA reps. They fight for the rights of the union. They are their representatives. They don't fight for their personal issues. Yes, they made their money but that is why they are reps. Reps aren't guys that are rookies. They are guys that have been around the block.
RE: If the Asian baseball teams and the European Soccer leagues
Since May just 19 in UK Premier League positive and last week 1,973 tests, 0 positive.
Our leagues aren't playing yet and we've had a significantly higher number of players test positive. It's not rocket science, the other places being compared to are doing a better job controlling the rise of new cases.
RE: RE: If the Asian baseball teams and the European Soccer leagues
are able to restart and play, then why can’t our overpaid prima donnas figure out a way to also do it?
What a crock of entitled-sounding horseshit.
Football is completely fucking unnecessary.
How about we trot your fat ass out there to catch covid?
Take 2000 healthy people in their 20s. How many will die of covid if all 2000 caught it? (Obviously much fewer will catch it due to herd immunity, T-cell response, etc.)
The median answer is zero. It is well understood at this point that for people under 50, and certainly under 40, the risk of covid is absolutely comparable to the risk of a normal flu, a risk faced by all players every flu season, which is also known as “the NFL playoffs.”
The very high end, like a super duper edge case where you get VERY unlucky, is 2.
In an average season there are over 200 concussions - reported! God knows how many are unreported.
Covid is not one of the most dangerous things a player will face on the field this season.
Now, you might angrily slobber over your keyboard with respect to that risk they are taking. But then I think football itself isn’t really for you. I
RE: RE: RE: If the Asian baseball teams and the European Soccer leagues
are able to restart and play, then why can’t our overpaid prima donnas figure out a way to also do it?
What a crock of entitled-sounding horseshit.
Football is completely fucking unnecessary.
How about we trot your fat ass out there to catch covid?
Take 2000 healthy people in their 20s. How many will die of covid if all 2000 caught it? (Obviously much fewer will catch it due to herd immunity, T-cell response, etc.)
The median answer is zero. It is well understood at this point that for people under 50, and certainly under 40, the risk of covid is absolutely comparable to the risk of a normal flu, a risk faced by all players every flu season, which is also known as “the NFL playoffs.”
The very high end, like a super duper edge case where you get VERY unlucky, is 2.
In an average season there are over 200 concussions - reported! God knows how many are unreported.
Covid is not one of the most dangerous things a player will face on the field this season.
Now, you might angrily slobber over your keyboard with respect to that risk they are taking. But then I think football itself isn’t really for you. I
Sorry, I am thinking more about it. The very unlucky case is probably one death. With death rates of all people under 40 at much less than 1 in 1000 of people who catch the disease, it would be surprising to have 1 death and astonishing to have 2 deaths in the population of NFL players.
Should 80 year old coaches be on the sidelines? probably not.
That most of the players won’t isolate for 5 months when the minimum salary is $610,000, close to 4000 per day.
I love how money always gets thrown around like money makes people inhuman and not have normal feelings, needs, and wants. Those without families would probably agree to being isolated. But try taking me away from my kids for 5 months for money. No thanks.
RE: RE: RE: If the Asian baseball teams and the European Soccer leagues
are able to restart and play, then why can’t our overpaid prima donnas figure out a way to also do it?
Not a hard question. Simple answer. Too many assholes and not enough elbows.
This is the truth.
Americans are the most self-centered people on the planet.
Look at the infection numbers around the world and then look at the United States...
... we are a global embarrassment.
We don’t get to open schools and start sports the way the rest of the world does because we were too selfish to shut our shit down in the first place.
Read, analyze and listen more, post less. This is a profoundly uneducated take.
Could be wrong though - share with us your scientific study that shows Americans are more self centered and handling this more poorly than Europe.
And not opening schools this fall has zero to do with data and science. Zero. It has to do with legal liability and teachers unions who know their jobs are safe even as the private sector continues to lose theirs - refusing to work
That most of the players won’t isolate for 5 months when the minimum salary is $610,000, close to 4000 per day.
I love how money always gets thrown around like money makes people inhuman and not have normal feelings, needs, and wants. Those without families would probably agree to being isolated. But try taking me away from my kids for 5 months for money. No thanks.
Your average NFL player isn’t set for life. Your average NFL player is only looking at a 4-5 year window to make more money than they probably will for the rest of their life. Even more importantly, they have an even smaller window to prove themselves so that they can potentially set themselves up for life. We’re not talking about the Nate Solders of the league here, that isn’t the majority. It’s the NFLPAs job to ensure NFL player safety, as they should, but you’re being naive if you think they aren’t highly incentivized to make it work.
That most of the players won’t isolate for 5 months when the minimum salary is $610,000, close to 4000 per day.
I love how money always gets thrown around like money makes people inhuman and not have normal feelings, needs, and wants. Those without families would probably agree to being isolated. But try taking me away from my kids for 5 months for money. No thanks.
Definitely a tough situation. It’s circumstance by circumstance. Most of these guys know this level of income expires in less than 5-10 years tops and then Many don’t really have Workplace skills beyond football.
I think A lot of this is about the 35% potential paycut or withholding that’s been thrown out there this week ... as Much as it is about the public health stuff. It’s easier to get the public behind you when you speak to the covid concerns but asking these guys to risk their brains and acls for a full season for maybe 35% less pay was something that’s not Going to sit well and I agree with the players on that.
RE: RE: RE: RE: If the Asian baseball teams and the European Soccer leagues
are able to restart and play, then why can’t our overpaid prima donnas figure out a way to also do it?
Not a hard question. Simple answer. Too many assholes and not enough elbows.
This is the truth.
Americans are the most self-centered people on the planet.
Look at the infection numbers around the world and then look at the United States...
... we are a global embarrassment.
We don’t get to open schools and start sports the way the rest of the world does because we were too selfish to shut our shit down in the first place.
Read, analyze and listen more, post less. This is a profoundly uneducated take.
Could be wrong though - share with us your scientific study that shows Americans are more self centered and handling this more poorly than Europe.
And not opening schools this fall has zero to do with data and science. Zero. It has to do with legal liability and teachers unions who know their jobs are safe even as the private sector continues to lose theirs - refusing to work
I don't get how you can state your first line and then say schools opening has more to do with teachers than data and science. Just so you are educated, there is not one union of teachers. Every district has their own union. The decision on whether schools will be open or not will reside with Cuomo in NY. As a city teachers our union is asking for temperature checks, cleaning of schools, and daycare since they want blended learning. We aren't the obstacle. But thanks for trying.
That most of the players won’t isolate for 5 months when the minimum salary is $610,000, close to 4000 per day.
I love how money always gets thrown around like money makes people inhuman and not have normal feelings, needs, and wants. Those without families would probably agree to being isolated. But try taking me away from my kids for 5 months for money. No thanks.
Your average NFL player isn’t set for life. Your average NFL player is only looking at a 4-5 year window to make more money than they probably will for the rest of their life. Even more importantly, they have an even smaller window to prove themselves so that they can potentially set themselves up for life. We’re not talking about the Nate Solders of the league here, that isn’t the majority. It’s the NFLPAs job to ensure NFL player safety, as they should, but you’re being naive if you think they aren’t highly incentivized to make it work.
I already commented about this. The reps are representing all the players and they want certain things done to help ensure their safety. That is for all players. That is what should be done. Again, nobody is saying all players agree but this is the stance the union is taking so it doesn't matter what the percentages are.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: If the Asian baseball teams and the European Soccer leagues
I don't get how you can state your first line and then say schools opening has more to do with teachers than data and science. Just so you are educated, there is not one union of teachers. Every district has their own union. The decision on whether schools will be open or not will reside with Cuomo in NY. As a city teachers our union is asking for temperature checks, cleaning of schools, and daycare since they want blended learning. We aren't the obstacle. But thanks for trying.
In Westchester our teachers union is saying, many of whom make 100k per year plus pension, that overflow rooms are not an option this year because it’s too much work and beyond their commitment. Our school budget has gone up 1% this year despite last springs disasterous virtual program. So I’m extremely frustrated.
Who is ‘they wanted blended learning’? Also I thought deblasio already announced nycs plans even though as you point out that power is supposed to reside with Cuomo (interesting that they hate each other)
But money is a factor. A very real one. For some, and probably the majorit of players,, it’s more real than the health risk. Solder and other reps are saying what they need to say, they need to ensure player safety for certain and they also need to use all the leverage they have to make sure that they’re appropriately compensated as the owners try to play the lost revenue card.
The “should they” discussion is more about public health than the actual risk to the players themselves. It’s a contact sport, so players will test positive at a high rate. So it’s incumbent upon the NFL to test aggressively enough to contain it and it’s up to the individual players to assess that risk on whether they should play or not. Prior to playing, it’s the responsibility of the NFLPA to ensure player safety...and compensation.
Again, every district has their own union. In NYC, yes, DeBlasio said they are re-opening and that was quickly shot down again by Cuomo. In NY the only thing that makes sense is a statewide if not tri-state decision. The majority of NYC teachers do not live in NYC. Daycare us a huge issue. If some schools are fully open and others not that causes a huge strain that cannot really be dealt with. It doesn't matter if you are in Westchester, Long Island, the city, Jersey, etc. We are all connected. If your one small union is fighting for certain things then that is their job. Doesn't mean they are right nor will they get everything they want. But I will guarantee teachers will not be the reasons decisions are made. We are looked down upon by many including you by your comments. What we say rarely matters. These decisions will be made by the state imo.
And blended learning is the option the city is trying to force right now, which makes zero sense to me. It's impossible and I have already explained this on other threads that I am not getting into right now. But blended learning is where it would be a mix of remote learning and in person learning while adhering to social distancing. Imo, it is physically impossible to do this on many levels.
And another point, we all make decisions. You can't be pissed because you or others have to go in to work and us with a union didn't have to go in. This had NOTHING to do with a union. All schools were closed by order of Cuomo. We still worked. Now, can I say every teacher put in the effort they should have? No. I can say that about any field. There are a handful of teachers that give us a bad name. I will say that I worked harder than ever before putting everything together for my students and making countless phone calls usually after 9 p.m. at night so I know someone would be home. Just because we weren't in the building doesn't mean we weren't working our asses off. My wife and I both teach and have 2 kids at home. That was anything but easy. I'd rather have my normal commute of 3.5 to 4 hours in a car every day than do what just happened. I chose to focus on the positive where I was still able to do my job and see my kids more eventhough I barely slept. So, just because I chose this job doesn't mean you get to be pissed off that we are part of a union and they try to look out for us while you work in the private sector and had to go to work everyday. I'm sure you make a nice salary. Your anger is misguided.
But money is a factor. A very real one. For some, and probably the majorit of players,, it’s more real than the health risk. Solder and other reps are saying what they need to say, they need to ensure player safety for certain and they also need to use all the leverage they have to make sure that they’re appropriately compensated as the owners try to play the lost revenue card.
The “should they” discussion is more about public health than the actual risk to the players themselves. It’s a contact sport, so players will test positive at a high rate. So it’s incumbent upon the NFL to test aggressively enough to contain it and it’s up to the individual players to assess that risk on whether they should play or not. Prior to playing, it’s the responsibility of the NFLPA to ensure player safety...and compensation.
I don't buy the money argument. People say things like this all the time. It is basically shut up and play because you get paid a lot. When in reality it is those that do get paid a lot that have stronger unions that fight back the hardest. It is those living paycheck to paycheck that give in and dp whatever it takes. Just my 2 cents.
In terms of compensation, we'll see what happens. Most money made is from tv deals in the NFL and that will still be there. They are also advertising on the empty seats. I can't see a significant paycut for the players. MLB set the bar with full prorated salaries for the games being played. The NFL will most likely have to follow suit and they are in a much better position than MLB in that regard.
It’s not “an argument” it’s literally the argument. The union is both negotiating for compensation and the conditions in which they will work to be compensated. This is a lot of money we’re talking here...for everybody from the bottom of the roster to the top. And probably moreso for the bottom of the roster guys.
This is straight risk vs reward...and you’re flippantly dismissing the money part.
have too much power imo. They have evolved beyond their initial founding principle. I grew up around and with teachers. It was not always like it is now. Many had second jobs.
Cops/teachers are paid in many instances based on where they live. One town can pay this amount and the other this amount and they are five minutes apart. What message does that send?
I believe a great teacher/cop is worth top pay. However, all teachers/cops are not worth top pay and the system that governs the process is screwed up. It is so hard to get rid of average/poor performance people in these fields. Way too much entitlement that the unions helped to create.
You should always be hiring new people and weeding at the average/poor ones with years of service. This would also help some of the inequalities as many who are qualified simply can't get a opportunity since so many are hanging on the these high salaried positions with not high level performance. Just being okay at your job should not mean you can stay as long as you like.
you bring up very valid points but I do disagree overall. I also don't want to derail this thread with this topic. My original point was to bring attention to the fact that the teachers unions will be at the very bottom of the lists on whether schools are open or not.
you bring up very valid points but I do disagree overall. I also don't want to derail this thread with this topic. My original point was to bring attention to the fact that the teachers unions will be at the very bottom of the lists on whether schools are open or not.
If teachers are generally not onboard this will not work. Imagine just 20% of a staff calling in sick. You would have to close the school.
you bring up very valid points but I do disagree overall. I also don't want to derail this thread with this topic. My original point was to bring attention to the fact that the teachers unions will be at the very bottom of the lists on whether schools are open or not.
If teachers are generally not onboard this will not work. Imagine just 20% of a staff calling in sick. You would have to close the school.
Teachers as individuals will absolutely have their own plans. They are working on an option that if you are high risk then you can work remotely. Remember, school isn't going to be like normal. Maybe some districts but many if not all if this is state mandated and I am fairly confident it will be. Schools are going to have to adhere to social distancing rules. It's going to be a disaster any way you slice it.
As a teacher you only have X amount of sick days and if you miss extended time you need a doctor's note. Schools have to be prepared for teacher absences regardless of any situation.
I will say in our school it is very difficult to get subs and if there were issues with the amount of staff there they would combine classes in the auditorium to cover them. Now with social distancing that is not an option. Again, this is one of many reasons why blended learning won't work. To me it is either all in or all home. But that's another conversation.
just like sports, schools can work but it has to be done right
Israel handled c19 better than anyone (bluelou had some really informative posts in real time a few months back) but they opened schools and they became a super spreader environment that's led to a surge. That's why the leagues need to be similarly vigilant in any way they can because contact sports with group travel can quickly become a super spreader environment which will at minimum logistically screw up schedules and at maximum do a lot worse for players or their families.
Btw my 4 year old is in person for a few hours every day at her preschool for modified day camp - and for kids the adjustments are totally doable even at that age. Temp checks at dropoff, masks on all day, they have their own bubbles so no sharing objects, 6 feet of distance, lots of hand washing, doors/windows open for airflow when inside, etc. We live in a city with cases rising and so far it's working for pretty much all involved. With the lower transmissions risks for kids under 10 there is probably a way to make something work but not if we aren't smart about it. And just like the NFLPA as parents we certainly want to feel like the school leadership is taking this seriously and being smart about the protocols they are implementing.
Football and schools in the fall are both within the control of our adult (and young adult) age population - if we can be smart and get the 10-20% of people who do 80-90% of the spreading to stop doing so and take seriously that in many cases by the time people realize they have it they've already passed it on to many others.
His son, Hudson, is battling cancer and is therefore in a part of the population that may be extremely vulnerable to disease, including COVID. So he might be more aware than some others about how the lives of players and their families are interwoven when it comes to thinking about personal safety.
RE: RE: RE: If the Asian baseball teams and the European Soccer leagues
Better watch out. Rational thought might get you in trouble.
Quote:
In comment 14931470 Spider56 said:
Quote:
are able to restart and play, then why can’t our overpaid prima donnas figure out a way to also do it?
What a crock of entitled-sounding horseshit.
Football is completely fucking unnecessary.
How about we trot your fat ass out there to catch covid?
Take 2000 healthy people in their 20s. How many will die of covid if all 2000 caught it? (Obviously much fewer will catch it due to herd immunity, T-cell response, etc.)
The median answer is zero. It is well understood at this point that for people under 50, and certainly under 40, the risk of covid is absolutely comparable to the risk of a normal flu, a risk faced by all players every flu season, which is also known as “the NFL playoffs.”
The very high end, like a super duper edge case where you get VERY unlucky, is 2.
In an average season there are over 200 concussions - reported! God knows how many are unreported.
Covid is not one of the most dangerous things a player will face on the field this season.
Now, you might angrily slobber over your keyboard with respect to that risk they are taking. But then I think football itself isn’t really for you. I
RE: RE: RE: If the Asian baseball teams and the European Soccer leagues
Better watch out. Rational thought might get you in trouble.
Quote:
In comment 14931470 Spider56 said:
Quote:
are able to restart and play, then why can’t our overpaid prima donnas figure out a way to also do it?
What a crock of entitled-sounding horseshit.
Football is completely fucking unnecessary.
How about we trot your fat ass out there to catch covid?
Take 2000 healthy people in their 20s. How many will die of covid if all 2000 caught it? (Obviously much fewer will catch it due to herd immunity, T-cell response, etc.)
The median answer is zero. It is well understood at this point that for people under 50, and certainly under 40, the risk of covid is absolutely comparable to the risk of a normal flu, a risk faced by all players every flu season, which is also known as “the NFL playoffs.”
The very high end, like a super duper edge case where you get VERY unlucky, is 2.
In an average season there are over 200 concussions - reported! God knows how many are unreported.
Covid is not one of the most dangerous things a player will face on the field this season.
Now, you might angrily slobber over your keyboard with respect to that risk they are taking. But then I think football itself isn’t really for you. I
Let me say again. Rational thought might get you trouble, you never know.
What is he saying the NFL won't do?
The thought of a 25 year old guy living like a monk for months upon end doesn't seem too realistic to me. Someone will get it & next thing you know, others on the team have it. And even if they feel fine, I can't see the NFL letting them play until it's resolved.
In short, it's a mess. And it sucks.
PLUS 1 !!!!!
Not every place in the world is dealing with the same numbers.
Pretty weak take. It’s infinitely more challenging to do anything in mass in this country.
This also has nothing to do with how much money they make, COVID isn’t concerned with bank accounts.
What a crock of entitled-sounding horseshit.
Football is completely fucking unnecessary.
How about we trot your fat ass out there to catch covid?
this is all negotiating in public. they will end up at daily testing, 1-2 preseason games, and some agreement on speading the cap changes in future years over the length of the CBA
Quote:
are able to restart and play, then why can’t our overpaid prima donnas figure out a way to also do it?
What a crock of entitled-sounding horseshit.
Football is completely fucking unnecessary.
How about we trot your fat ass out there to catch covid?
Nice post. Have a bad day? Football is completely unnecessary and so is acting like you were personally wronged. Man you go off the deep end a lot.
You would be better off pointing out that Baseball isn't really a contact sport(except the ball) and that American football is all contact all the time.
I don’t think it’s possible to be honest. You are talking 100’s of people per team and then telling them they can’t see their families for 4-6 months. That won’t fly with too many players.
It’ll work for the NBA but it’s far less people and a much shorter timeframe. Those guys wouldn’t do it either over a full season.
Quote:
are able to restart and play, then why can’t our overpaid prima donnas figure out a way to also do it?
What a crock of entitled-sounding horseshit.
Football is completely fucking unnecessary.
How about we trot your fat ass out there to catch covid?
You mad, bruh?
I’ve noticed this a ton lately, you need therapy. You’re not stable. Get help and thank me later.
this is all negotiating in public. they will end up at daily testing, 1-2 preseason games, and some agreement on speading the cap changes in future years over the length of the CBA
It has nothing to do with how much they've made. They are NFLPA reps. They fight for the rights of the union. They are their representatives. They don't fight for their personal issues. Yes, they made their money but that is why they are reps. Reps aren't guys that are rookies. They are guys that have been around the block.
Not a hard question. Simple answer. Too many assholes and not enough elbows.
Our leagues aren't playing yet and we've had a significantly higher number of players test positive. It's not rocket science, the other places being compared to are doing a better job controlling the rise of new cases.
Quote:
are able to restart and play, then why can’t our overpaid prima donnas figure out a way to also do it?
What a crock of entitled-sounding horseshit.
Football is completely fucking unnecessary.
How about we trot your fat ass out there to catch covid?
Take 2000 healthy people in their 20s. How many will die of covid if all 2000 caught it? (Obviously much fewer will catch it due to herd immunity, T-cell response, etc.)
The median answer is zero. It is well understood at this point that for people under 50, and certainly under 40, the risk of covid is absolutely comparable to the risk of a normal flu, a risk faced by all players every flu season, which is also known as “the NFL playoffs.”
The very high end, like a super duper edge case where you get VERY unlucky, is 2.
In an average season there are over 200 concussions - reported! God knows how many are unreported.
Covid is not one of the most dangerous things a player will face on the field this season.
Now, you might angrily slobber over your keyboard with respect to that risk they are taking. But then I think football itself isn’t really for you. I
Quote:
In comment 14931470 Spider56 said:
Quote:
are able to restart and play, then why can’t our overpaid prima donnas figure out a way to also do it?
What a crock of entitled-sounding horseshit.
Football is completely fucking unnecessary.
How about we trot your fat ass out there to catch covid?
Take 2000 healthy people in their 20s. How many will die of covid if all 2000 caught it? (Obviously much fewer will catch it due to herd immunity, T-cell response, etc.)
The median answer is zero. It is well understood at this point that for people under 50, and certainly under 40, the risk of covid is absolutely comparable to the risk of a normal flu, a risk faced by all players every flu season, which is also known as “the NFL playoffs.”
The very high end, like a super duper edge case where you get VERY unlucky, is 2.
In an average season there are over 200 concussions - reported! God knows how many are unreported.
Covid is not one of the most dangerous things a player will face on the field this season.
Now, you might angrily slobber over your keyboard with respect to that risk they are taking. But then I think football itself isn’t really for you. I
Sorry, I am thinking more about it. The very unlucky case is probably one death. With death rates of all people under 40 at much less than 1 in 1000 of people who catch the disease, it would be surprising to have 1 death and astonishing to have 2 deaths in the population of NFL players.
Should 80 year old coaches be on the sidelines? probably not.
Quote:
are able to restart and play, then why can’t our overpaid prima donnas figure out a way to also do it?
Not a hard question. Simple answer. Too many assholes and not enough elbows.
This is the truth.
Americans are the most self-centered people on the planet.
Look at the infection numbers around the world and then look at the United States...
... we are a global embarrassment.
We don’t get to open schools and start sports the way the rest of the world does because we were too selfish to shut our shit down in the first place.
I love how money always gets thrown around like money makes people inhuman and not have normal feelings, needs, and wants. Those without families would probably agree to being isolated. But try taking me away from my kids for 5 months for money. No thanks.
Quote:
In comment 14931470 Spider56 said:
Quote:
are able to restart and play, then why can’t our overpaid prima donnas figure out a way to also do it?
Not a hard question. Simple answer. Too many assholes and not enough elbows.
This is the truth.
Americans are the most self-centered people on the planet.
Look at the infection numbers around the world and then look at the United States...
... we are a global embarrassment.
We don’t get to open schools and start sports the way the rest of the world does because we were too selfish to shut our shit down in the first place.
Read, analyze and listen more, post less. This is a profoundly uneducated take.
Could be wrong though - share with us your scientific study that shows Americans are more self centered and handling this more poorly than Europe.
And not opening schools this fall has zero to do with data and science. Zero. It has to do with legal liability and teachers unions who know their jobs are safe even as the private sector continues to lose theirs - refusing to work
Quote:
That most of the players won’t isolate for 5 months when the minimum salary is $610,000, close to 4000 per day.
I love how money always gets thrown around like money makes people inhuman and not have normal feelings, needs, and wants. Those without families would probably agree to being isolated. But try taking me away from my kids for 5 months for money. No thanks.
Your average NFL player isn’t set for life. Your average NFL player is only looking at a 4-5 year window to make more money than they probably will for the rest of their life. Even more importantly, they have an even smaller window to prove themselves so that they can potentially set themselves up for life. We’re not talking about the Nate Solders of the league here, that isn’t the majority. It’s the NFLPAs job to ensure NFL player safety, as they should, but you’re being naive if you think they aren’t highly incentivized to make it work.
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That most of the players won’t isolate for 5 months when the minimum salary is $610,000, close to 4000 per day.
I love how money always gets thrown around like money makes people inhuman and not have normal feelings, needs, and wants. Those without families would probably agree to being isolated. But try taking me away from my kids for 5 months for money. No thanks.
Definitely a tough situation. It’s circumstance by circumstance. Most of these guys know this level of income expires in less than 5-10 years tops and then Many don’t really have Workplace skills beyond football.
I think A lot of this is about the 35% potential paycut or withholding that’s been thrown out there this week ... as Much as it is about the public health stuff. It’s easier to get the public behind you when you speak to the covid concerns but asking these guys to risk their brains and acls for a full season for maybe 35% less pay was something that’s not Going to sit well and I agree with the players on that.
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In comment 14931594 djm said:
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In comment 14931470 Spider56 said:
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are able to restart and play, then why can’t our overpaid prima donnas figure out a way to also do it?
Not a hard question. Simple answer. Too many assholes and not enough elbows.
This is the truth.
Americans are the most self-centered people on the planet.
Look at the infection numbers around the world and then look at the United States...
... we are a global embarrassment.
We don’t get to open schools and start sports the way the rest of the world does because we were too selfish to shut our shit down in the first place.
Read, analyze and listen more, post less. This is a profoundly uneducated take.
Could be wrong though - share with us your scientific study that shows Americans are more self centered and handling this more poorly than Europe.
And not opening schools this fall has zero to do with data and science. Zero. It has to do with legal liability and teachers unions who know their jobs are safe even as the private sector continues to lose theirs - refusing to work
I don't get how you can state your first line and then say schools opening has more to do with teachers than data and science. Just so you are educated, there is not one union of teachers. Every district has their own union. The decision on whether schools will be open or not will reside with Cuomo in NY. As a city teachers our union is asking for temperature checks, cleaning of schools, and daycare since they want blended learning. We aren't the obstacle. But thanks for trying.
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In comment 14931631 give66 said:
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That most of the players won’t isolate for 5 months when the minimum salary is $610,000, close to 4000 per day.
I love how money always gets thrown around like money makes people inhuman and not have normal feelings, needs, and wants. Those without families would probably agree to being isolated. But try taking me away from my kids for 5 months for money. No thanks.
Your average NFL player isn’t set for life. Your average NFL player is only looking at a 4-5 year window to make more money than they probably will for the rest of their life. Even more importantly, they have an even smaller window to prove themselves so that they can potentially set themselves up for life. We’re not talking about the Nate Solders of the league here, that isn’t the majority. It’s the NFLPAs job to ensure NFL player safety, as they should, but you’re being naive if you think they aren’t highly incentivized to make it work.
I already commented about this. The reps are representing all the players and they want certain things done to help ensure their safety. That is for all players. That is what should be done. Again, nobody is saying all players agree but this is the stance the union is taking so it doesn't matter what the percentages are.
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In comment 14931626 Brown_Hornet said:
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In comment 14931594 djm said:
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In comment 14931470 Spider56 said:
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I don't get how you can state your first line and then say schools opening has more to do with teachers than data and science. Just so you are educated, there is not one union of teachers. Every district has their own union. The decision on whether schools will be open or not will reside with Cuomo in NY. As a city teachers our union is asking for temperature checks, cleaning of schools, and daycare since they want blended learning. We aren't the obstacle. But thanks for trying.
In Westchester our teachers union is saying, many of whom make 100k per year plus pension, that overflow rooms are not an option this year because it’s too much work and beyond their commitment. Our school budget has gone up 1% this year despite last springs disasterous virtual program. So I’m extremely frustrated.
Who is ‘they wanted blended learning’? Also I thought deblasio already announced nycs plans even though as you point out that power is supposed to reside with Cuomo (interesting that they hate each other)
The “should they” discussion is more about public health than the actual risk to the players themselves. It’s a contact sport, so players will test positive at a high rate. So it’s incumbent upon the NFL to test aggressively enough to contain it and it’s up to the individual players to assess that risk on whether they should play or not. Prior to playing, it’s the responsibility of the NFLPA to ensure player safety...and compensation.
And blended learning is the option the city is trying to force right now, which makes zero sense to me. It's impossible and I have already explained this on other threads that I am not getting into right now. But blended learning is where it would be a mix of remote learning and in person learning while adhering to social distancing. Imo, it is physically impossible to do this on many levels.
And another point, we all make decisions. You can't be pissed because you or others have to go in to work and us with a union didn't have to go in. This had NOTHING to do with a union. All schools were closed by order of Cuomo. We still worked. Now, can I say every teacher put in the effort they should have? No. I can say that about any field. There are a handful of teachers that give us a bad name. I will say that I worked harder than ever before putting everything together for my students and making countless phone calls usually after 9 p.m. at night so I know someone would be home. Just because we weren't in the building doesn't mean we weren't working our asses off. My wife and I both teach and have 2 kids at home. That was anything but easy. I'd rather have my normal commute of 3.5 to 4 hours in a car every day than do what just happened. I chose to focus on the positive where I was still able to do my job and see my kids more eventhough I barely slept. So, just because I chose this job doesn't mean you get to be pissed off that we are part of a union and they try to look out for us while you work in the private sector and had to go to work everyday. I'm sure you make a nice salary. Your anger is misguided.
The “should they” discussion is more about public health than the actual risk to the players themselves. It’s a contact sport, so players will test positive at a high rate. So it’s incumbent upon the NFL to test aggressively enough to contain it and it’s up to the individual players to assess that risk on whether they should play or not. Prior to playing, it’s the responsibility of the NFLPA to ensure player safety...and compensation.
I don't buy the money argument. People say things like this all the time. It is basically shut up and play because you get paid a lot. When in reality it is those that do get paid a lot that have stronger unions that fight back the hardest. It is those living paycheck to paycheck that give in and dp whatever it takes. Just my 2 cents.
In terms of compensation, we'll see what happens. Most money made is from tv deals in the NFL and that will still be there. They are also advertising on the empty seats. I can't see a significant paycut for the players. MLB set the bar with full prorated salaries for the games being played. The NFL will most likely have to follow suit and they are in a much better position than MLB in that regard.
This is straight risk vs reward...and you’re flippantly dismissing the money part.
Cops/teachers are paid in many instances based on where they live. One town can pay this amount and the other this amount and they are five minutes apart. What message does that send?
I believe a great teacher/cop is worth top pay. However, all teachers/cops are not worth top pay and the system that governs the process is screwed up. It is so hard to get rid of average/poor performance people in these fields. Way too much entitlement that the unions helped to create.
You should always be hiring new people and weeding at the average/poor ones with years of service. This would also help some of the inequalities as many who are qualified simply can't get a opportunity since so many are hanging on the these high salaried positions with not high level performance. Just being okay at your job should not mean you can stay as long as you like.
If teachers are generally not onboard this will not work. Imagine just 20% of a staff calling in sick. You would have to close the school.
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you bring up very valid points but I do disagree overall. I also don't want to derail this thread with this topic. My original point was to bring attention to the fact that the teachers unions will be at the very bottom of the lists on whether schools are open or not.
If teachers are generally not onboard this will not work. Imagine just 20% of a staff calling in sick. You would have to close the school.
Teachers as individuals will absolutely have their own plans. They are working on an option that if you are high risk then you can work remotely. Remember, school isn't going to be like normal. Maybe some districts but many if not all if this is state mandated and I am fairly confident it will be. Schools are going to have to adhere to social distancing rules. It's going to be a disaster any way you slice it.
As a teacher you only have X amount of sick days and if you miss extended time you need a doctor's note. Schools have to be prepared for teacher absences regardless of any situation.
I will say in our school it is very difficult to get subs and if there were issues with the amount of staff there they would combine classes in the auditorium to cover them. Now with social distancing that is not an option. Again, this is one of many reasons why blended learning won't work. To me it is either all in or all home. But that's another conversation.
Btw my 4 year old is in person for a few hours every day at her preschool for modified day camp - and for kids the adjustments are totally doable even at that age. Temp checks at dropoff, masks on all day, they have their own bubbles so no sharing objects, 6 feet of distance, lots of hand washing, doors/windows open for airflow when inside, etc. We live in a city with cases rising and so far it's working for pretty much all involved. With the lower transmissions risks for kids under 10 there is probably a way to make something work but not if we aren't smart about it. And just like the NFLPA as parents we certainly want to feel like the school leadership is taking this seriously and being smart about the protocols they are implementing.
Football and schools in the fall are both within the control of our adult (and young adult) age population - if we can be smart and get the 10-20% of people who do 80-90% of the spreading to stop doing so and take seriously that in many cases by the time people realize they have it they've already passed it on to many others.
Better watch out. Rational thought might get you in trouble.
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In comment 14931470 Spider56 said:
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are able to restart and play, then why can’t our overpaid prima donnas figure out a way to also do it?
What a crock of entitled-sounding horseshit.
Football is completely fucking unnecessary.
How about we trot your fat ass out there to catch covid?
Take 2000 healthy people in their 20s. How many will die of covid if all 2000 caught it? (Obviously much fewer will catch it due to herd immunity, T-cell response, etc.)
The median answer is zero. It is well understood at this point that for people under 50, and certainly under 40, the risk of covid is absolutely comparable to the risk of a normal flu, a risk faced by all players every flu season, which is also known as “the NFL playoffs.”
The very high end, like a super duper edge case where you get VERY unlucky, is 2.
In an average season there are over 200 concussions - reported! God knows how many are unreported.
Covid is not one of the most dangerous things a player will face on the field this season.
Now, you might angrily slobber over your keyboard with respect to that risk they are taking. But then I think football itself isn’t really for you. I
Better watch out. Rational thought might get you in trouble.
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In comment 14931470 Spider56 said:
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are able to restart and play, then why can’t our overpaid prima donnas figure out a way to also do it?
What a crock of entitled-sounding horseshit.
Football is completely fucking unnecessary.
How about we trot your fat ass out there to catch covid?
Take 2000 healthy people in their 20s. How many will die of covid if all 2000 caught it? (Obviously much fewer will catch it due to herd immunity, T-cell response, etc.)
The median answer is zero. It is well understood at this point that for people under 50, and certainly under 40, the risk of covid is absolutely comparable to the risk of a normal flu, a risk faced by all players every flu season, which is also known as “the NFL playoffs.”
The very high end, like a super duper edge case where you get VERY unlucky, is 2.
In an average season there are over 200 concussions - reported! God knows how many are unreported.
Covid is not one of the most dangerous things a player will face on the field this season.
Now, you might angrily slobber over your keyboard with respect to that risk they are taking. But then I think football itself isn’t really for you. I
are able to restart and play, then why can’t our overpaid prima donnas figure out a way to also do it?
Taiwan has *6* active COVID cases, per Worldometers.
7 people have died.
The last reported death was May 11.More people live in Taiwan than Florida.
They’re playing baseball today in sold out stadiums
gee how did they do it ?
Masks and medical care: Two keys to Taiwan's success in preventing COVID-19 spread - ( New Window )