so they paid off victims, that they supposedly robbed, to be quiet?! WTF?! Something is not right about this whole mess. I suppose that's why it hasn't been resolved with charges being dropped yet.
of this reminds me of the old line from Mark Twain: "The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it."
Yep nor is it worth the energy to try. If he’s back great. If not, next man up. Too many other much more important things to focus on right now than DeAndre Baker.
But when he's finally shown the door, they're gonna pin on him his trade up into Round One for DeAndre Baker.
I hope they do pin it on Gettleman. I hope that Baker is exonerated and becomes an annual invitee to speak at the rookie symposium. I hope that he stays out of trouble and goes on to have a great career and people can pin it all on Dave Gettleman.
This whole situation and this whole off-season has sucked.
First, trading up for BAKER knowing he had attitude issues was likely a bad idea, and not only because of this arrest robbery issue. You don't trade up for "problem child" types with 4.52 speed for CB. But what is done is done so lets hope this is dropped, Baker mostly exonerated, Baker suspended and Baker a strong Giant.
But my guess is the Giants may just part with him anyway and void the contract if they can.
I like Gettleman. He’s been around long enough. So.. is a gamler
I just don’t get it where is it a guy goes out to eat starts a fight it’s on world wide video 5 minutes later, a reported robbery at an outdoor Party event and no video?
RE: I like Gettleman. He’s been around long enough. So.. is a gamler
he gambled on Baker and so far he is losing.
Let’s hope he knew the good and bad before the draft. If not the Giants got problems.
Best case scenario, we find out that the payoffs were pursued by the witnesses in a scam rather than by Baker to "get away with it" and so forth.
The charges are dropped.
The NFL suspends four games.
Baker may still get cut for being "who he is" which is apparently a "less than average character" guy!
I realize Gettleman gambled as Baker was ranked as high as 15th on some draft boards but fell for .... drum roll .... character issues I do believe.
You gamble and win big or you gamble and lose big. I don't know what will happen here but so far it doesn't look good at all.
but his lawyer didn't feel the need to speak up about it until AFTER the news came out that he is paying witnesses.
Is this the same lawyer who said the charges would be dropped and Baker would be cleared of all charges within the week ions ago? What a joke.
Reading the lines and between them:
- No, Patel is the perpetual 'Baker will be exonerated' lawyer; Cohen is the head of his firm, much more lawyerly, cautious than Patel (who may may not be long for Cohen's firm, unless Cohen is comfortable with entertainment TMZ type publicity).
- Seems to me Johnson/Coach 'introduced' Baker/Dunbar to this Madden lawn party group of gems (aka jewls/jewels lol)
- Seems to me, then, that Johnson felt responsible for a lawn party gone bad, and felt obliged to intervene, to 'help'
- As to extortion being beyond the pale here? It is completely consistent, as one theory of the case, for Baker/Dunbar to have done bad things at the party and then to be extorted by the 'victims'
- It's also a completely consistent theory of the case for Baker/Dunbar not to done bad things and to be extorted. What was Johnson thinking in concocting this flammable mix?
- I'm with ryan and others in thinking it is hilarious, classic BBI, to character assassinate Leonard for having done some relevant and original digging that may be very significant to outcomes, regardless of legal outcomes, which may be a long way off
- it's even more hilarious to praise Schwartz' story and to crucify Leonard's when the former was based entirely on the latter. I agree that it seems Leonard's was hastily written: he knew it might be dynamite, was breathless to throw shade (agree, not pretty there).
- agree with whoever above said Leonard's discovery sounded closer to an application for a warrant than the warrant itself. Leonard is obviously not an experienced crime reporter. Nevertheless, the assertions made in the application, if this is what it is, are flammable, even if just the prosecutorial side of the narrative.
about this but I genuinely think people are confused about my stance. I don’t have a legal opinion of everything going on with Baker. Just trying to see how it plays out and if he’s cleared, he’s cleared. If he’s not, he’s not. It’s pretty much as simple as that and until we get clarity it’s gonna be muddy.
I do, however, have a stance on Pat Leonard, regardless of this “breaking news” search warrant article he wrote, “broke.” Pat Leonard is not a journalist, he doesn’t break news, he doesn’t report any type of legal findings or news, and he isn’t anything other than a click bait back page writer just trying to drum up views for NYDN.
I’ve been pretty clear on that. Pat Leonard will never be someone you can trust with the “facts” about anything, especially regarding a criminal investigation.
if you aren’t outraged about whatever bad is happening to the Giants than you are an apologist or homer.
Conversations like the ones I sift through and am sometimes a part of on BBI never happen in my circle of NFL fan friends. We have different rooting interests, incomes, political stances etc and we never argue about crap like this to this extent. It’s really strange.
I’m taking the same approach you are - if he’s guilty he’s guilty and I want him gone and if he isn’t I hope he learns from this ordeal and becomes a contributing factor for this team moving forward. I genuinely don’t understand why approaching it this way is a problem.
if you aren’t outraged about whatever bad is happening to the Giants than you are an apologist or homer.
Conversations like the ones I sift through and am sometimes a part of on BBI never happen in my circle of NFL fan friends. We have different rooting interests, incomes, political stances etc and we never argue about crap like this to this extent. It’s really strange.
I’m taking the same approach you are - if he’s guilty he’s guilty and I want him gone and if he isn’t I hope he learns from this ordeal and becomes a contributing factor for this team moving forward. I genuinely don’t understand why approaching it this way is a problem.
Im guilty of that. Social media brings out the adversary in me. I’ve deleted my Facebook because it always devolves into a never ending pissing match (which I inevitably engage in). I think I’m going to take a step back and spend time just reading and not commenting. BBI is a great resource for content and conversation
RE: I think Ryan was ripping Leonard for this article
I think you may be right; I'm so confused. LOL. He just doubled down. Irrespective of one's reactive or cultivated attitudes toward him, Leonard broke new ground, plain and simple.
Based on my experience, the information given to the press
by each side in a trial may be accurate, BUT because of the adversarial nature of litigation the info given to the press is intentionally incomplete. Thus, it is really not possible for the newspaper reader to accurately guess what the outcome of the hearing will be.
We may have to wait for a court's decision. Baker has embarrassed the Giants. His play as a rookie was far from stellar. If he leaves the team, he will be missed, but not very much.
appreciate the response and good for you. I think a lot of social media is toxic so I’ve removed most of it from my life. Now more than ever it’s just something I try to avoid. The screenshots I’m sent from friends of Facebook conversations between other people we know are flat out embarrassing.
One thing I’ve noticed about social media is that people just can’t admit when they are wrong. The original knee jerk reaction is called out and then it’s all defensiveness and backtracking which gets hostile - like many threads on BBI. Personally I’m comfortable being wrong, I try to admit it and learn from it when it happens (not always successful but I try). I also try not to be knee jerk on my opinions (not always successful here either) but at least I try. We all need a bit more humility, it’s ok to not know something or to be proven wrong.
nope, wrong again. You’re conflating the issue. Nobody here (including me) would ever criticize someone for having an opinion about Baker being a bad dude or making a bad decision or whatever. That’s entirely fair.
However, what’s completely not fair is to come to a conclusion before the case is finished, or before the investigation (and the subsequent findings) is complete.
Listen man, guys make bad decisions. There’s a chance Baker got into a money problem and threatened people with a gun, and robbed people. That’s definitely possible. But it’s also possible that it didn’t happen, the story got wildly out of control, and/or he’s being extorted. We don’t know the answer to either of those questions. AND, if all of this comes to pass and the case is dismissed, it will probably be evident that something as serious as armed robbery absolutely did not occur. Was there a fight of some kind or threats? Maybe, possibly, who the fuck knows. We just don’t know, neither does Pat Leonard or anything else besides whatever police department is investigating this.
So, again, I’m not coming down on anyone here for having a bad opinion of Baker. But I reserve the right to tell you what my opinion is on the matter. It’s a message board. Opinions vary. I’ll be the first to say I was wrong if it turns out Baker is guilty as sin. But something tells me if he’s not, and the case is dismissed, we won’t be hearing a peep from the people on this board that spent hours crucifying him and calling his career.
It blows my mind that we have story after story where
a case isn't what it seems at the outset and yet the pitchforks still always come out. I seriously wish these people could get falsely accused of something in their lives. I actually see why innocent people go to prison now. Half the jury has their mind made up before they even hear the case!
Personally I don't have any pitchfork out for Baker...
Watch as many documentaries as you can. There’s a very digestible documentary on Netflix called “survivors guide to prison” that is eye opening to say the least.
When I was younger I was all about eye for eye and capital punishment. Not anymore. The very notion of court issued punishment disappoints me.
We truly have a lot of work to do in this country.
Not to defend baker or his partner here. Who the hell knows what really happened. I just want the giants to win again.
but he should be suspender just for hiring an idiot to be his lawyer. Issuing press releases that the police are going to drop the charges is a sure way to motivate them and the NFL to look more closely. And now it appears they have.
about this but I genuinely think people are confused about my stance. I don’t have a legal opinion of everything going on with Baker. Just trying to see how it plays out and if he’s cleared, he’s cleared. If he’s not, he’s not. It’s pretty much as simple as that and until we get clarity it’s gonna be muddy.
I do, however, have a stance on Pat Leonard, regardless of this “breaking news” search warrant article he wrote, “broke.” Pat Leonard is not a journalist, he doesn’t break news, he doesn’t report any type of legal findings or news, and he isn’t anything other than a click bait back page writer just trying to drum up views for NYDN.
I’ve been pretty clear on that. Pat Leonard will never be someone you can trust with the “facts” about anything, especially regarding a criminal investigation.
Leonard sucks, but are you saying that he made up the search warrant request because you can't trust him with 'facts'? Just because the guy sucks doesn't mean that he can't report the findings of a record request. That is factual.
If you want to debate the motive behind him posting an article about this, that is a different story but this article by Leonard pretty much sticks to the facts of the search warrant.
You can dismiss his work, but still acknowledge that he actually did his job for once instead of dismissing everything he does outright.
Regarding waiting for all the information to come out, the Giants don't operate as a court of law. Even if Baker is innocent, this a huge distraction which I am sure aggravates Gettleman and Judge to no end. Giants hate distractions and have cut and or traded guys for much less than what Baker is into. Coupled with his shit attitude from last year, keeping him doesn't really jive with the new culture DG is trying to build.
I wouldn't be surprised one way or the other if he is cut or kept regardless of his legal status.
It seems you can’t see the difference between someone like Leonard (who uses the fact that there’s a search warrant and sensationalizes the entire article with a web of crazy shit to make it seem like Baker is 100% guilty and the Giants are 100% going to cut him) and someone like say...a real news person just saying hey there’s an update, there’s an active search warrant due to allegations of a pay off, the case is on going.
Pat Leonard didn’t break any news, he didn’t break any story, all he did was try to drum up attention for himself and the NYDN and clearly it worked.
nope, wrong again. You’re conflating the issue. Nobody here (including me) would ever criticize someone for having an opinion about Baker being a bad dude or making a bad decision or whatever. That’s entirely fair.
However, what’s completely not fair is to come to a conclusion before the case is finished, or before the investigation (and the subsequent findings) is complete.
Listen man, guys make bad decisions. There’s a chance Baker got into a money problem and threatened people with a gun, and robbed people. That’s definitely possible. But it’s also possible that it didn’t happen, the story got wildly out of control, and/or he’s being extorted. We don’t know the answer to either of those questions. AND, if all of this comes to pass and the case is dismissed, it will probably be evident that something as serious as armed robbery absolutely did not occur. Was there a fight of some kind or threats? Maybe, possibly, who the fuck knows. We just don’t know, neither does Pat Leonard or anything else besides whatever police department is investigating this.
So, again, I’m not coming down on anyone here for having a bad opinion of Baker. But I reserve the right to tell you what my opinion is on the matter. It’s a message board. Opinions vary. I’ll be the first to say I was wrong if it turns out Baker is guilty as sin. But something tells me if he’s not, and the case is dismissed, we won’t be hearing a peep from the people on this board that spent hours crucifying him and calling his career.
I don’t even know what you’re blabbering about. Really.
by each side in a trial may be accurate, BUT because of the adversarial nature of litigation the info given to the press is intentionally incomplete. Thus, it is really not possible for the newspaper reader to accurately guess what the outcome of the hearing will be.
We may have to wait for a court's decision. Baker has embarrassed the Giants. His play as a rookie was far from stellar. If he leaves the team, he will be missed, but not very much.
Spot on Marty, and it goes well beyond the information each side in a legal case will let out to the press. It extends to what is presented in court, what is stated in Warrants, etc. The whole Perry Mason (Law and Order, and the vast host of TV legal dramas) that present the legal and criminal justice system as trying to get to and elucidate the facts and the whole truth is a crock of bullshit.
Each side is out to WIN the case for their side. Make that the prosecutors are out to win, the defenders, if public or otherwise not terribly well paid, out to work another day and perhaps help their clients. But also perhaps not, not all their clients anyway.
But TRUTH is not the goal with the prosecutors generally. Wins = promotions and money.
RE: RE: Based on my experience, the information given to the press
by each side in a trial may be accurate, BUT because of the adversarial nature of litigation the info given to the press is intentionally incomplete. Thus, it is really not possible for the newspaper reader to accurately guess what the outcome of the hearing will be.
We may have to wait for a court's decision. Baker has embarrassed the Giants. His play as a rookie was far from stellar. If he leaves the team, he will be missed, but not very much.
Spot on Marty, and it goes well beyond the information each side in a legal case will let out to the press. It extends to what is presented in court, what is stated in Warrants, etc. The whole Perry Mason (Law and Order, and the vast host of TV legal dramas) that present the legal and criminal justice system as trying to get to and elucidate the facts and the whole truth is a crock of bullshit.
Each side is out to WIN the case for their side. Make that the prosecutors are out to win, the defenders, if public or otherwise not terribly well paid, out to work another day and perhaps help their clients. But also perhaps not, not all their clients anyway.
But TRUTH is not the goal with the prosecutors generally. Wins = promotions and money.
I will disagree that prosecutors aren't out for the truth 99.9% of the time. Yes, wins lead to reelections, promotions, etc. But they have to present the truth as the evidence provides, or they are perjuring themselves and are open to overturning a conviction on appeal. Yes it happens that an overzealous and corrupt prosecutors will hide evidence(hmmm) or ignore exculpatory evidence(hmmm).
The defense is out to win anyway it can and can offer far fetched reasons for the defendant's behavior including lies and misrepresenting the facts.
And in the end, your justice is directly linked to the amount of $$ you can afford while the gov't can spend anything it wants on the taxpayers' dollar. That is where I see a major fault in the system.
you said if anyone on BBI says anything negative about a player they get crucified. That’s bullshit.
Think about the source. It is a previously banned poster who loved to fixate on the term "Hand of God", who discarded the ghost of Jimmy Googs to be this schmuck.
He's a critical thinker while the rest of us are sheep....
but also disagree with criticism always getting crucified. People who drive-by post get called out, no question about it. People that actually explain their outlook are usually met with far more courtesy and understanding.
In sum if you are going to be miserable about something and beat everyone over the head with it, atleast bring something to the table. Otherwise state your frustration and move on.
Its ok to vent but when venting turns into lectures and/or is nasty in tone, no one wants to talk to you. I apply that to my daily life as well and it works wonders to "trim the fat" of people I don't want to be around anymore.
I would generally agree with all that except that support
you said if anyone on BBI says anything negative about a player they get crucified. That’s bullshit.
You would think everybody by now would know LBH15 was originally Jimmy Googs.
Think about the source. It is a previously banned poster who loved to fixate on the term "Hand of God", who discarded the ghost of Jimmy Googs to be this schmuck.
He's a critical thinker while the rest of us are sheep....
you said if anyone on BBI says anything negative about a player they get crucified. That’s bullshit.
Think about the source. It is a previously banned poster who loved to fixate on the term "Hand of God", who discarded the ghost of Jimmy Googs to be this schmuck.
He's a critical thinker while the rest of us are sheep....
Better format! You would think everybody by now would know LBH15 was originally Jimmy Googs.
Dunbars attorneys withdraw from the case. You can't represent a client and be under investigation for paying off witnesses. The fact that they have video evidence of an exchange for money doesn't bode well for Dunbar's attorneys. Dunbar's attorneys withdraw from case - ( New Window )
Dunbars attorneys withdraw from the case. You can't represent a client and be under investigation for paying off witnesses. The fact that they have video evidence of an exchange for money doesn't bode well for Dunbar's attorneys. Dunbar's attorneys withdraw from case - ( New Window )
Wow... This is a game changer and making it seem more and more likely that Baker and his law team have either been telling the truth about the original(fake robbery) extortion attempt or they played their cards very well and will be able to throw Dunbar under the bus as a co-conspirator of the extortionists.
It seems you can’t see the difference between someone like Leonard (who uses the fact that there’s a search warrant and sensationalizes the entire article with a web of crazy shit to make it seem like Baker is 100% guilty and the Giants are 100% going to cut him) and someone like say...a real news person just saying hey there’s an update, there’s an active search warrant due to allegations of a pay off, the case is on going.
Pat Leonard didn’t break any news, he didn’t break any story, all he did was try to drum up attention for himself and the NYDN and clearly it worked.
I can't believe you are making me defend Pat Leonard, but
a) who else was reporting about the details of the search warrant before Leonard wrote the article? He broke it by doing the FOIA request.
b) what in the article is made up? it's all coming from the search warrant. He's not offering any commentary.
I don't have a problem accepting that maybe Leonard did his job for once? Just because he sucks most of the time, I can't give him credit for when he doesn't suck?
The majority of his work is to stir the pot, and like i said, you can argue the point of his article was to stir it, but it's one of the few articles with all facts. If that article had Garapolo's by-line on it people would be like, "awesome find by Mike G"
Dunbars attorneys withdraw from the case. You can't represent a client and be under investigation for paying off witnesses. The fact that they have video evidence of an exchange for money doesn't bode well for Dunbar's attorneys. Dunbar's attorneys withdraw from case - ( New Window )
Wow... This is a game changer and making it seem more and more likely that Baker and his law team have either been telling the truth about the original(fake robbery) extortion attempt or they played their cards very well and will be able to throw Dunbar under the bus as a co-conspirator of the extortionists.
Huh? It just means that Dunbar decided to pay off the extortionists while Baker sat back and waited to see how it went. It doesn't that Baker and Dunbar didn't rob the guys. It just means that it's possible that the guys who were robbed were willing to take a pay off to recant.
Just speaking intuitively without any data to back me up, I would think that more often than not, blackmailers have legitimate dirt on the person or people they are blackmailing. In a circumstance like this, where it's people who reportedly have criminal records and have already made police statement, I doubt they would go through this much trouble over a lousy $55K. It sounds more like they are trying to recoup the money that was taken from them with perhaps a little extra for the hassle. In this comedy of stupidity that stretches the imagination, what seems most far-fetched is that four guys hatched a plan to have two pro football players arrested on their false testimony so that they could then blackmail them into giving them $55K to tell the police they made the whole thing up.
My best guess at this whole crazy affair is that Baker and Dunbar felt that they were ripped off by these known criminals and so they went "OJ Part 2" on them and demanded their money back at gunpoint. Baker and Dunbar maybe figured that the guys wouldn't call the police on them because of their own culpability.
I'm not sure how this will play out in the court system
It's possible Baker and Dunbar do time, it's possible they go to trial but are found not guilty, it's possible they plead to a suspended sentence to avoid prison, it's possible all charges are dropped.
That side of it is unpredictable at this point. But as far as the NFL is concerned, I find it hard to believe they will avoid suspension.
RE: I'm not sure how this will play out in the court system
It's possible Baker and Dunbar do time, it's possible they go to trial but are found not guilty, it's possible they plead to a suspended sentence to avoid prison, it's possible all charges are dropped.
That side of it is unpredictable at this point. But as far as the NFL is concerned, I find it hard to believe they will avoid suspension.
Why? Let's say Baker and his attorney have been telling the truth from the start. Baker went to the party, played madden and left when a fight broke out. The thugs wait an hour (time to make up a story) and call the police. They then extort Baker. Why would the nfl suspend him?
you said if anyone on BBI says anything negative about a player they get crucified. That’s bullshit.
Think about the source. It is a previously banned poster who loved to fixate on the term "Hand of God", who discarded the ghost of Jimmy Googs to be this schmuck.
He's a critical thinker while the rest of us are sheep....
Better format! You would think everybody by now would know LBH15 was originally Jimmy Googs.
Yaah! You figured out how to post a reply.
But sadly still got the message wrong.
RE: RE: I'm not sure how this will play out in the court system
It's possible Baker and Dunbar do time, it's possible they go to trial but are found not guilty, it's possible they plead to a suspended sentence to avoid prison, it's possible all charges are dropped.
That side of it is unpredictable at this point. But as far as the NFL is concerned, I find it hard to believe they will avoid suspension.
Why? Let's say Baker and his attorney have been telling the truth from the start. Baker went to the party, played madden and left when a fight broke out. The thugs wait an hour (time to make up a story) and call the police. They then extort Baker. Why would the nfl suspend him?
So these criminal masterminds (with arrest records) decided to go through all that trouble to split $55K between the four of them? I just find it hard to believe that Baker and Dunbar are just innocent victims of a shakedown. I also find it hard to believe that Baker and Dunbar suddenly decided to pull out a gun and rob a bunch of thugs during a party. But somewhere in the middle of these two unlikelihoods is what actually happened. My best guess is that Baker and/or Dunbar felt like they had been cheated out of money by these guys and so they demanded their money back at gunpoint. They didn't think the thugs would call the police because a) they're thugs with criminal records and b) it was money from illegal gambling. But after discussing it the thugs decided that Baker and Dunbar had more to lose than they did and so they went ahead and called the police.
RE: RE: RE: I'm not sure how this will play out in the court system
It's possible Baker and Dunbar do time, it's possible they go to trial but are found not guilty, it's possible they plead to a suspended sentence to avoid prison, it's possible all charges are dropped.
That side of it is unpredictable at this point. But as far as the NFL is concerned, I find it hard to believe they will avoid suspension.
Why? Let's say Baker and his attorney have been telling the truth from the start. Baker went to the party, played madden and left when a fight broke out. The thugs wait an hour (time to make up a story) and call the police. They then extort Baker. Why would the nfl suspend him?
So these criminal masterminds (with arrest records) decided to go through all that trouble to split $55K between the four of them? I just find it hard to believe that Baker and Dunbar are just innocent victims of a shakedown. I also find it hard to believe that Baker and Dunbar suddenly decided to pull out a gun and rob a bunch of thugs during a party. But somewhere in the middle of these two unlikelihoods is what actually happened. My best guess is that Baker and/or Dunbar felt like they had been cheated out of money by these guys and so they demanded their money back at gunpoint. They didn't think the thugs would call the police because a) they're thugs with criminal records and b) it was money from illegal gambling. But after discussing it the thugs decided that Baker and Dunbar had more to lose than they did and so they went ahead and called the police.
Nobody here knows what happened. You dais in a previous post that no matter how it turns out you done see how Baker is going to avoid a suspension. If it turns out that he did nothing wrong and is a victim of blackmail plot then there will be no suspension.
From the beginning Bakers attorney said he was being blackmailed. He has two other eye witnesses that state that Baker didn't rob anyone. Not there thugs that claim that they were robbed.
Dunbar's attorney is the one claiming that there accusers changed their story. He's also there guy that setup the payoff.
This easily could turn out right for Baker. I think at this point it's best to let things play out before judging the player. I think that's exactly what Judge and the Giants are doing. Let the facts come out and make your judgment afterwards. They shouldn't cut someone based on an accusation.
Yep nor is it worth the energy to try. If he’s back great. If not, next man up. Too many other much more important things to focus on right now than DeAndre Baker.
But when he's finally shown the door, they're gonna pin on him his trade up into Round One for DeAndre Baker.
But when he's finally shown the door, they're gonna pin on him his trade up into Round One for DeAndre Baker.
I hope they do pin it on Gettleman. I hope that Baker is exonerated and becomes an annual invitee to speak at the rookie symposium. I hope that he stays out of trouble and goes on to have a great career and people can pin it all on Dave Gettleman.
But when he's finally shown the door, they're gonna pin on him his trade up into Round One for DeAndre Baker.
I’m sure it will happen and to me it would be wrong. This is purely random shit. And random shit happens.
First, trading up for BAKER knowing he had attitude issues was likely a bad idea, and not only because of this arrest robbery issue. You don't trade up for "problem child" types with 4.52 speed for CB. But what is done is done so lets hope this is dropped, Baker mostly exonerated, Baker suspended and Baker a strong Giant.
But my guess is the Giants may just part with him anyway and void the contract if they can.
Let’s hope he knew the good and bad before the draft. If not the Giants got problems.
Let’s hope he knew the good and bad before the draft. If not the Giants got problems.
The charges are dropped.
The NFL suspends four games.
Baker may still get cut for being "who he is" which is apparently a "less than average character" guy!
I realize Gettleman gambled as Baker was ranked as high as 15th on some draft boards but fell for .... drum roll .... character issues I do believe.
You gamble and win big or you gamble and lose big. I don't know what will happen here but so far it doesn't look good at all.
Is this the same lawyer who said the charges would be dropped and Baker would be cleared of all charges within the week ions ago? What a joke.
- No, Patel is the perpetual 'Baker will be exonerated' lawyer; Cohen is the head of his firm, much more lawyerly, cautious than Patel (who may may not be long for Cohen's firm, unless Cohen is comfortable with entertainment TMZ type publicity).
- Seems to me Johnson/Coach 'introduced' Baker/Dunbar to this Madden lawn party group of gems (aka jewls/jewels lol)
- Seems to me, then, that Johnson felt responsible for a lawn party gone bad, and felt obliged to intervene, to 'help'
- As to extortion being beyond the pale here? It is completely consistent, as one theory of the case, for Baker/Dunbar to have done bad things at the party and then to be extorted by the 'victims'
- It's also a completely consistent theory of the case for Baker/Dunbar not to done bad things and to be extorted. What was Johnson thinking in concocting this flammable mix?
- I'm with ryan and others in thinking it is hilarious, classic BBI, to character assassinate Leonard for having done some relevant and original digging that may be very significant to outcomes, regardless of legal outcomes, which may be a long way off
- it's even more hilarious to praise Schwartz' story and to crucify Leonard's when the former was based entirely on the latter. I agree that it seems Leonard's was hastily written: he knew it might be dynamite, was breathless to throw shade (agree, not pretty there).
- agree with whoever above said Leonard's discovery sounded closer to an application for a warrant than the warrant itself. Leonard is obviously not an experienced crime reporter. Nevertheless, the assertions made in the application, if this is what it is, are flammable, even if just the prosecutorial side of the narrative.
I do, however, have a stance on Pat Leonard, regardless of this “breaking news” search warrant article he wrote, “broke.” Pat Leonard is not a journalist, he doesn’t break news, he doesn’t report any type of legal findings or news, and he isn’t anything other than a click bait back page writer just trying to drum up views for NYDN.
I’ve been pretty clear on that. Pat Leonard will never be someone you can trust with the “facts” about anything, especially regarding a criminal investigation.
Conversations like the ones I sift through and am sometimes a part of on BBI never happen in my circle of NFL fan friends. We have different rooting interests, incomes, political stances etc and we never argue about crap like this to this extent. It’s really strange.
I’m taking the same approach you are - if he’s guilty he’s guilty and I want him gone and if he isn’t I hope he learns from this ordeal and becomes a contributing factor for this team moving forward. I genuinely don’t understand why approaching it this way is a problem.
Conversations like the ones I sift through and am sometimes a part of on BBI never happen in my circle of NFL fan friends. We have different rooting interests, incomes, political stances etc and we never argue about crap like this to this extent. It’s really strange.
I’m taking the same approach you are - if he’s guilty he’s guilty and I want him gone and if he isn’t I hope he learns from this ordeal and becomes a contributing factor for this team moving forward. I genuinely don’t understand why approaching it this way is a problem.
Im guilty of that. Social media brings out the adversary in me. I’ve deleted my Facebook because it always devolves into a never ending pissing match (which I inevitably engage in). I think I’m going to take a step back and spend time just reading and not commenting. BBI is a great resource for content and conversation
We may have to wait for a court's decision. Baker has embarrassed the Giants. His play as a rookie was far from stellar. If he leaves the team, he will be missed, but not very much.
One thing I’ve noticed about social media is that people just can’t admit when they are wrong. The original knee jerk reaction is called out and then it’s all defensiveness and backtracking which gets hostile - like many threads on BBI. Personally I’m comfortable being wrong, I try to admit it and learn from it when it happens (not always successful but I try). I also try not to be knee jerk on my opinions (not always successful here either) but at least I try. We all need a bit more humility, it’s ok to not know something or to be proven wrong.
However, what’s completely not fair is to come to a conclusion before the case is finished, or before the investigation (and the subsequent findings) is complete.
Listen man, guys make bad decisions. There’s a chance Baker got into a money problem and threatened people with a gun, and robbed people. That’s definitely possible. But it’s also possible that it didn’t happen, the story got wildly out of control, and/or he’s being extorted. We don’t know the answer to either of those questions. AND, if all of this comes to pass and the case is dismissed, it will probably be evident that something as serious as armed robbery absolutely did not occur. Was there a fight of some kind or threats? Maybe, possibly, who the fuck knows. We just don’t know, neither does Pat Leonard or anything else besides whatever police department is investigating this.
So, again, I’m not coming down on anyone here for having a bad opinion of Baker. But I reserve the right to tell you what my opinion is on the matter. It’s a message board. Opinions vary. I’ll be the first to say I was wrong if it turns out Baker is guilty as sin. But something tells me if he’s not, and the case is dismissed, we won’t be hearing a peep from the people on this board that spent hours crucifying him and calling his career.
And in my opinion the statement in the article linked in the OP takes the cake.
When I was younger I was all about eye for eye and capital punishment. Not anymore. The very notion of court issued punishment disappoints me.
We truly have a lot of work to do in this country.
Not to defend baker or his partner here. Who the hell knows what really happened. I just want the giants to win again.
lol. OK thanks for the update.
I do, however, have a stance on Pat Leonard, regardless of this “breaking news” search warrant article he wrote, “broke.” Pat Leonard is not a journalist, he doesn’t break news, he doesn’t report any type of legal findings or news, and he isn’t anything other than a click bait back page writer just trying to drum up views for NYDN.
I’ve been pretty clear on that. Pat Leonard will never be someone you can trust with the “facts” about anything, especially regarding a criminal investigation.
Leonard sucks, but are you saying that he made up the search warrant request because you can't trust him with 'facts'? Just because the guy sucks doesn't mean that he can't report the findings of a record request. That is factual.
If you want to debate the motive behind him posting an article about this, that is a different story but this article by Leonard pretty much sticks to the facts of the search warrant.
You can dismiss his work, but still acknowledge that he actually did his job for once instead of dismissing everything he does outright.
Regarding waiting for all the information to come out, the Giants don't operate as a court of law. Even if Baker is innocent, this a huge distraction which I am sure aggravates Gettleman and Judge to no end. Giants hate distractions and have cut and or traded guys for much less than what Baker is into. Coupled with his shit attitude from last year, keeping him doesn't really jive with the new culture DG is trying to build.
I wouldn't be surprised one way or the other if he is cut or kept regardless of his legal status.
Pat Leonard didn’t break any news, he didn’t break any story, all he did was try to drum up attention for himself and the NYDN and clearly it worked.
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is getting himself ready for his opportunity.
Beal and Ballantine will fight for the starting job if Baker isn't available.
Great. We are going to get torched.
However, what’s completely not fair is to come to a conclusion before the case is finished, or before the investigation (and the subsequent findings) is complete.
Listen man, guys make bad decisions. There’s a chance Baker got into a money problem and threatened people with a gun, and robbed people. That’s definitely possible. But it’s also possible that it didn’t happen, the story got wildly out of control, and/or he’s being extorted. We don’t know the answer to either of those questions. AND, if all of this comes to pass and the case is dismissed, it will probably be evident that something as serious as armed robbery absolutely did not occur. Was there a fight of some kind or threats? Maybe, possibly, who the fuck knows. We just don’t know, neither does Pat Leonard or anything else besides whatever police department is investigating this.
So, again, I’m not coming down on anyone here for having a bad opinion of Baker. But I reserve the right to tell you what my opinion is on the matter. It’s a message board. Opinions vary. I’ll be the first to say I was wrong if it turns out Baker is guilty as sin. But something tells me if he’s not, and the case is dismissed, we won’t be hearing a peep from the people on this board that spent hours crucifying him and calling his career.
I don’t even know what you’re blabbering about. Really.
Is this the same lawyer who said the charges would be dropped and Baker would be cleared of all charges within the week ions ago?
What a joke.
The charges against Baker certainly seem to have had an electric effect on team chemistry.
We may have to wait for a court's decision. Baker has embarrassed the Giants. His play as a rookie was far from stellar. If he leaves the team, he will be missed, but not very much.
Spot on Marty, and it goes well beyond the information each side in a legal case will let out to the press. It extends to what is presented in court, what is stated in Warrants, etc. The whole Perry Mason (Law and Order, and the vast host of TV legal dramas) that present the legal and criminal justice system as trying to get to and elucidate the facts and the whole truth is a crock of bullshit.
Each side is out to WIN the case for their side. Make that the prosecutors are out to win, the defenders, if public or otherwise not terribly well paid, out to work another day and perhaps help their clients. But also perhaps not, not all their clients anyway.
But TRUTH is not the goal with the prosecutors generally. Wins = promotions and money.
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by each side in a trial may be accurate, BUT because of the adversarial nature of litigation the info given to the press is intentionally incomplete. Thus, it is really not possible for the newspaper reader to accurately guess what the outcome of the hearing will be.
We may have to wait for a court's decision. Baker has embarrassed the Giants. His play as a rookie was far from stellar. If he leaves the team, he will be missed, but not very much.
Spot on Marty, and it goes well beyond the information each side in a legal case will let out to the press. It extends to what is presented in court, what is stated in Warrants, etc. The whole Perry Mason (Law and Order, and the vast host of TV legal dramas) that present the legal and criminal justice system as trying to get to and elucidate the facts and the whole truth is a crock of bullshit.
Each side is out to WIN the case for their side. Make that the prosecutors are out to win, the defenders, if public or otherwise not terribly well paid, out to work another day and perhaps help their clients. But also perhaps not, not all their clients anyway.
But TRUTH is not the goal with the prosecutors generally. Wins = promotions and money.
I will disagree that prosecutors aren't out for the truth 99.9% of the time. Yes, wins lead to reelections, promotions, etc. But they have to present the truth as the evidence provides, or they are perjuring themselves and are open to overturning a conviction on appeal. Yes it happens that an overzealous and corrupt prosecutors will hide evidence(hmmm) or ignore exculpatory evidence(hmmm).
The defense is out to win anyway it can and can offer far fetched reasons for the defendant's behavior including lies and misrepresenting the facts.
And in the end, your justice is directly linked to the amount of $$ you can afford while the gov't can spend anything it wants on the taxpayers' dollar. That is where I see a major fault in the system.
Think about the source. It is a previously banned poster who loved to fixate on the term "Hand of God", who discarded the ghost of Jimmy Googs to be this schmuck.
He's a critical thinker while the rest of us are sheep....
Fine, as long as we agree that the following statement given above is bull too.
In sum if you are going to be miserable about something and beat everyone over the head with it, atleast bring something to the table. Otherwise state your frustration and move on.
Its ok to vent but when venting turns into lectures and/or is nasty in tone, no one wants to talk to you. I apply that to my daily life as well and it works wonders to "trim the fat" of people I don't want to be around anymore.
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you said if anyone on BBI says anything negative about a player they get crucified. That’s bullshit.
You would think everybody by now would know LBH15 was originally Jimmy Googs.
Think about the source. It is a previously banned poster who loved to fixate on the term "Hand of God", who discarded the ghost of Jimmy Googs to be this schmuck.
He's a critical thinker while the rest of us are sheep....
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In comment 14932371 ryanmkeane said:
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you said if anyone on BBI says anything negative about a player they get crucified. That’s bullshit.
Think about the source. It is a previously banned poster who loved to fixate on the term "Hand of God", who discarded the ghost of Jimmy Googs to be this schmuck.
He's a critical thinker while the rest of us are sheep....
Better format! You would think everybody by now would know LBH15 was originally Jimmy Googs.
Dunbar's attorneys withdraw from case - ( New Window )
Wow... This is a game changer and making it seem more and more likely that Baker and his law team have either been telling the truth about the original(fake robbery) extortion attempt or they played their cards very well and will be able to throw Dunbar under the bus as a co-conspirator of the extortionists.
Pat Leonard didn’t break any news, he didn’t break any story, all he did was try to drum up attention for himself and the NYDN and clearly it worked.
I can't believe you are making me defend Pat Leonard, but
a) who else was reporting about the details of the search warrant before Leonard wrote the article? He broke it by doing the FOIA request.
b) what in the article is made up? it's all coming from the search warrant. He's not offering any commentary.
I don't have a problem accepting that maybe Leonard did his job for once? Just because he sucks most of the time, I can't give him credit for when he doesn't suck?
The majority of his work is to stir the pot, and like i said, you can argue the point of his article was to stir it, but it's one of the few articles with all facts. If that article had Garapolo's by-line on it people would be like, "awesome find by Mike G"
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Dunbars attorneys withdraw from the case. You can't represent a client and be under investigation for paying off witnesses. The fact that they have video evidence of an exchange for money doesn't bode well for Dunbar's attorneys. Dunbar's attorneys withdraw from case - ( New Window )
Wow... This is a game changer and making it seem more and more likely that Baker and his law team have either been telling the truth about the original(fake robbery) extortion attempt or they played their cards very well and will be able to throw Dunbar under the bus as a co-conspirator of the extortionists.
Just speaking intuitively without any data to back me up, I would think that more often than not, blackmailers have legitimate dirt on the person or people they are blackmailing. In a circumstance like this, where it's people who reportedly have criminal records and have already made police statement, I doubt they would go through this much trouble over a lousy $55K. It sounds more like they are trying to recoup the money that was taken from them with perhaps a little extra for the hassle. In this comedy of stupidity that stretches the imagination, what seems most far-fetched is that four guys hatched a plan to have two pro football players arrested on their false testimony so that they could then blackmail them into giving them $55K to tell the police they made the whole thing up.
My best guess at this whole crazy affair is that Baker and Dunbar felt that they were ripped off by these known criminals and so they went "OJ Part 2" on them and demanded their money back at gunpoint. Baker and Dunbar maybe figured that the guys wouldn't call the police on them because of their own culpability.
That side of it is unpredictable at this point. But as far as the NFL is concerned, I find it hard to believe they will avoid suspension.
That side of it is unpredictable at this point. But as far as the NFL is concerned, I find it hard to believe they will avoid suspension.
Why? Let's say Baker and his attorney have been telling the truth from the start. Baker went to the party, played madden and left when a fight broke out. The thugs wait an hour (time to make up a story) and call the police. They then extort Baker. Why would the nfl suspend him?
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In comment 14932377 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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In comment 14932371 ryanmkeane said:
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you said if anyone on BBI says anything negative about a player they get crucified. That’s bullshit.
Think about the source. It is a previously banned poster who loved to fixate on the term "Hand of God", who discarded the ghost of Jimmy Googs to be this schmuck.
He's a critical thinker while the rest of us are sheep....
Better format! You would think everybody by now would know LBH15 was originally Jimmy Googs.
Yaah! You figured out how to post a reply.
But sadly still got the message wrong.
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It's possible Baker and Dunbar do time, it's possible they go to trial but are found not guilty, it's possible they plead to a suspended sentence to avoid prison, it's possible all charges are dropped.
That side of it is unpredictable at this point. But as far as the NFL is concerned, I find it hard to believe they will avoid suspension.
Why? Let's say Baker and his attorney have been telling the truth from the start. Baker went to the party, played madden and left when a fight broke out. The thugs wait an hour (time to make up a story) and call the police. They then extort Baker. Why would the nfl suspend him?
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In comment 14932745 Milton said:
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It's possible Baker and Dunbar do time, it's possible they go to trial but are found not guilty, it's possible they plead to a suspended sentence to avoid prison, it's possible all charges are dropped.
That side of it is unpredictable at this point. But as far as the NFL is concerned, I find it hard to believe they will avoid suspension.
Why? Let's say Baker and his attorney have been telling the truth from the start. Baker went to the party, played madden and left when a fight broke out. The thugs wait an hour (time to make up a story) and call the police. They then extort Baker. Why would the nfl suspend him?
So these criminal masterminds (with arrest records) decided to go through all that trouble to split $55K between the four of them? I just find it hard to believe that Baker and Dunbar are just innocent victims of a shakedown. I also find it hard to believe that Baker and Dunbar suddenly decided to pull out a gun and rob a bunch of thugs during a party. But somewhere in the middle of these two unlikelihoods is what actually happened. My best guess is that Baker and/or Dunbar felt like they had been cheated out of money by these guys and so they demanded their money back at gunpoint. They didn't think the thugs would call the police because a) they're thugs with criminal records and b) it was money from illegal gambling. But after discussing it the thugs decided that Baker and Dunbar had more to lose than they did and so they went ahead and called the police.
Nobody here knows what happened. You dais in a previous post that no matter how it turns out you done see how Baker is going to avoid a suspension. If it turns out that he did nothing wrong and is a victim of blackmail plot then there will be no suspension.
From the beginning Bakers attorney said he was being blackmailed. He has two other eye witnesses that state that Baker didn't rob anyone. Not there thugs that claim that they were robbed.
Dunbar's attorney is the one claiming that there accusers changed their story. He's also there guy that setup the payoff.
This easily could turn out right for Baker. I think at this point it's best to let things play out before judging the player. I think that's exactly what Judge and the Giants are doing. Let the facts come out and make your judgment afterwards. They shouldn't cut someone based on an accusation.