We're nearly two weeks away from Training Camp and after Rosas did, I mean there's no way he'll be our PK in the upcoming season.
So shouldn't we bring in someone? Anyone? I mean we don't have to commit to anyone longterm, as we'll see who shakes loose on cut day, but it'd be nice to have SOMEONE on the roster.
IDK how they can move past what he did. And even if they do, I imagine he's a good candidate to start the season suspended, either by the team or by the Commish.
Again, they don't need to commit longterm to anyone right now. It's really just a matter of having a PK on the roster for Training Camp.
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They are found off the scrap heap all the time. In fact, now might be the absolute worst time to bring in a kicker. One, teams have multiple kickers and will undoubtedly release decent talent there. Two, there is talk about minimizing the amount of players at camp this year so why would a team want 2 kickers taking up valuable roster spots?
Again, they don't need to commit longterm to anyone right now. It's really just a matter of having a PK on the roster for Training Camp.
Again, read point 2.
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In comment 14932237 robbieballs2003 said:
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They are found off the scrap heap all the time. In fact, now might be the absolute worst time to bring in a kicker. One, teams have multiple kickers and will undoubtedly release decent talent there. Two, there is talk about minimizing the amount of players at camp this year so why would a team want 2 kickers taking up valuable roster spots?
Again, they don't need to commit longterm to anyone right now. It's really just a matter of having a PK on the roster for Training Camp.
Again, read point 2.
So then they don't have to necessarily bring the PK to Training Camp...but at least they would have a guy on the roster.
Of course, and we will. I'm just curious why it hasn't happened yet. The Rosas incident was what? Two weeks ago?
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IDK how they can move past what he did. And even if they do, I imagine he's a good candidate to start the season suspended, either by the team or by the Commish.
Diehl had a DUI wreck. McKenzie had a DUI too but I dont think there was an accident involved. Not saying ita not a really serious incident. But I dont think it needs to be a death sentence for his time here. I guess the circumstances are inflated because he fled the scene though.
In any case theres no reason to rush with a decision. Especially the ease with which you can find a capable kicker. Not the best, b theres always an experienced leg on the scrap heap.
Not worried. Just curious.
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will want these players released if they aren't brought to camp. Not sure the team can really tell players to stay home and still control their rights. But even then, who cares? It is a kicker. Why do we need 2 on the roster right now? What are you worried about?
Not worried. Just curious.
Answer the question though. Why do we need a kicker right now? What are you curious about? Do you think Rosas cannot kick at camp? If he's on the team he'll be kicking. If they release him they'll get someone else. Now is not the time to be looking for kickers. It's the worst tike of year to do so. So, again, what are you worried about? Are you worried we cannot practice because we don't have 2 kickers because that isn't true.
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In comment 14932247 robbieballs2003 said:
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will want these players released if they aren't brought to camp. Not sure the team can really tell players to stay home and still control their rights. But even then, who cares? It is a kicker. Why do we need 2 on the roster right now? What are you worried about?
Not worried. Just curious.
Answer the question though. Why do we need a kicker right now? What are you curious about? Do you think Rosas cannot kick at camp? If he's on the team he'll be kicking. If they release him they'll get someone else. Now is not the time to be looking for kickers. It's the worst tike of year to do so. So, again, what are you worried about? Are you worried we cannot practice because we don't have 2 kickers because that isn't true.
So we have someone on the roster. And yes, it's possible Rosas won't be able to kick at camp. He may not be allowed at Camp. We don't know. Everything is very much up in the air right now. This is about an insurance policy. Having someone on the roster in case Rosas can't go. Of course kickers are picked up on a moment's notice and it's not like they need to learn the playbook, but it's all about having that insurance in case Rosas can't go. We don't need to sign anyone now, but do we want to head into Training Camp without (potentially) an active PK?
Its not like he (allegedly) robbed someone at gunpoint.
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In comment 14932248 Anakim said:
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In comment 14932247 robbieballs2003 said:
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will want these players released if they aren't brought to camp. Not sure the team can really tell players to stay home and still control their rights. But even then, who cares? It is a kicker. Why do we need 2 on the roster right now? What are you worried about?
Not worried. Just curious.
Answer the question though. Why do we need a kicker right now? What are you curious about? Do you think Rosas cannot kick at camp? If he's on the team he'll be kicking. If they release him they'll get someone else. Now is not the time to be looking for kickers. It's the worst tike of year to do so. So, again, what are you worried about? Are you worried we cannot practice because we don't have 2 kickers because that isn't true.
So we have someone on the roster. And yes, it's possible Rosas won't be able to kick at camp. He may not be allowed at Camp. We don't know. Everything is very much up in the air right now. This is about an insurance policy. Having someone on the roster in case Rosas can't go. Of course kickers are picked up on a moment's notice and it's not like they need to learn the playbook, but it's all about having that insurance in case Rosas can't go. We don't need to sign anyone now, but do we want to head into Training Camp without (potentially) an active PK?
Insurance? It's a kicker. They don't need to learn a system. Why wouldn't he be allowed at camp? If he wasn't don't you think they'd have added someone then. You aren't making sense. I still don't get the insurance part. There are plenty of teams with 2 kickers right now. Buffalo and LAR come to mind. I really am not sure what you are worried about. Judge is a special teams guy. If he feels it is important to sign a second kicker then great. If not then also great. Why the second guessing? Who do you suggest we sign now that will not be available in a day, week, month from now? I think we have way bigger issues at CB, OLB, OL, WR, RB, TE, etc. where the extra bodies are better used at those positions.
Its not like he (allegedly) robbed someone at gunpoint.
Knock on wood. Last season was a pretty poor one overall, but you hope it was an aberration and he can regain his 2018 form.
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In comment 14932249 robbieballs2003 said:
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In comment 14932248 Anakim said:
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In comment 14932247 robbieballs2003 said:
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will want these players released if they aren't brought to camp. Not sure the team can really tell players to stay home and still control their rights. But even then, who cares? It is a kicker. Why do we need 2 on the roster right now? What are you worried about?
Not worried. Just curious.
Answer the question though. Why do we need a kicker right now? What are you curious about? Do you think Rosas cannot kick at camp? If he's on the team he'll be kicking. If they release him they'll get someone else. Now is not the time to be looking for kickers. It's the worst tike of year to do so. So, again, what are you worried about? Are you worried we cannot practice because we don't have 2 kickers because that isn't true.
So we have someone on the roster. And yes, it's possible Rosas won't be able to kick at camp. He may not be allowed at Camp. We don't know. Everything is very much up in the air right now. This is about an insurance policy. Having someone on the roster in case Rosas can't go. Of course kickers are picked up on a moment's notice and it's not like they need to learn the playbook, but it's all about having that insurance in case Rosas can't go. We don't need to sign anyone now, but do we want to head into Training Camp without (potentially) an active PK?
Insurance? It's a kicker. They don't need to learn a system. Why wouldn't he be allowed at camp? If he wasn't don't you think they'd have added someone then. You aren't making sense. I still don't get the insurance part. There are plenty of teams with 2 kickers right now. Buffalo and LAR come to mind. I really am not sure what you are worried about. Judge is a special teams guy. If he feels it is important to sign a second kicker then great. If not then also great. Why the second guessing? Who do you suggest we sign now that will not be available in a day, week, month from now? I think we have way bigger issues at CB, OLB, OL, WR, RB, TE, etc. where the extra bodies are better used at those positions.
"Why wouldn't he be allowed at camp?"
What do you mean, Robbie? Did you hear what he did? His legal status? Upcoming court appearances?
"There are plenty of teams with 2 kickers right now."
But not us. Right now we just have one PK whose status is very much up in the air.
Again, you make it sound like I'm nervous and I'm questioning the competence of what we're doing. I'm not. It's more curiosity why we haven't signed anyone with Training Camp a couple of weeks away.
To be honest, regardless of his legal status they should bring in someone to compete with him. He had a subpar year and nothing should be handed to him.
I mean, it's not totally out of his control. I'm all for compassion and empathy but responsibility and accountability are important in treating alcoholism. Its fair to say no one wants or asks for addiction issues. Equally fair to say someones decisions were a factor in the illness developing.
Well you're just opening a can of worms here and we can discuss punishment vs. rehabilitation in another thread :P
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come on. Countless players have had court appearances and were still able to do their job. If he misses a day here and there who gives a shit. If it comes to that then they can decide to add another kicker but until then a second kicker should only be brought in if they think he can beat out Rosas not because he "could" miss a day or two.
To be honest, regardless of his legal status they should bring in someone to compete with him. He had a subpar year and nothing should be handed to him.
Correct. It just has to makes sense. They weren't going to draft a kicker. No idea if they tried bringing in one after the draft. But with kickers they are always in competition with every other kicker around the league. When someone more valuable becomes available decisions will be made while taking into account their financial situations.
Probably because the 2020 NFL season is only theoretical at this point in time.
Again, there are better kickers on rosters right now than what is available. This is the worst time of year to look for a kicker. Any player signed now is almost guaranteed not to make a roster so what is the point? If the point is to cut Rosas and get another kicker that will happen at roster cut downs. If the point is to bring in someone in case Rosas has court dates then you make that decision when the time comes. The only reason to bring in a kicker now is because you believe we are better off with the new kicker if they prove their worth. But, again, that kicker is almost 100% not available now. If he was he'd be picked up already when teams maxed out their rosters.
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Succop - 33
Vinatieri - 47
Folk - 35
Jonathan Brown - 27
I don't know anything about Brown but when I look at the other names they are names. This is a young team that isn't a kicker away from a championship. Therefore, I don't see the benefit of bringing any of them in over Rosas. I'd rather let the situation with Rosas play out. To reiterate, there are currently 45 kickers employed by NFL teams and none of these FA were wanted by other teams at this moment in time.
The disconnect, IMO, is that you keep saying "another" kicker, whereas Anakim is asking why we don't have any kicker. He's right, or should be. This isn't about depth; it's about having a kicker at all.
I understand wanting to be patient with the facts, but purely from a football standpoint, Rosas may not be worth the distraction in the first place.
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If we want another kicker we'll get another kicker.
The disconnect, IMO, is that you keep saying "another" kicker, whereas Anakim is asking why we don't have any kicker. He's right, or should be. This isn't about depth; it's about having a kicker at all.
I understand wanting to be patient with the facts, but purely from a football standpoint, Rosas may not be worth the distraction in the first place.
It's timing. If this happened before FA then maybe things are different. The timing of this situation changes how it is handled. We do have a kicker. It's not a disconnect. Rosas is on the roster until he's not.
Exactly. Give it time.
We also know that he’s erratic on the field, though less so than behind the wheel. He’s had one great season and two marginal-to-poor ones. Because the Giants have been awful since 2017, he hasn’t kicked under the pressure that separates great NFL kickers from guys with strong legs. He’s no longer cheap, and I doubt he would be much of a loss.
Plus, obviously, I’m assuming the facts of Rosas’s case are as reported.
And after all that, you're left with a shitty, inconsistent kicker who is now no longer a bargain, either.
What's the point of holding on? You think anyone is snapping him up if the Giants cut him? You think he's filing a grievance if the team tells him to stay away until his case is resolved?
Kickers are pretty much fungible except for the truly elite ones. Rosas has flashed that elite potential, but he's also sucked out loud twice as often as he's been good. There's a better chance that the good season was the anomaly than there is of it being the rule.
I guess I just don't get what the point is of keeping Rosas in the first place. At least with Baker, the value of a very good boundary CB (and the odd scenario surrounding his alleged incident) does make it understandably worthwhile to wait it out, plus there are several other DBs on the roster to take his reps at any point along the way.
For an inconsistent and mediocre kicker? We should have another leg on the roster anyway to compete with Rosas on the merit of his performance anyway. This just cements how unreliable he is, and reinforces the need to bring in another leg, IMO.
He's a guy you cant count on at this point. I'd rather have a guy that I know is going to be here for the long haul. We can pretty much get any kicker to match the crappy stats he had last season. Unlike the Baker situation, kickers are more replaceable and Bakers salary/cap hit is a little more difficult to manage.
I mean, you can sign a PK the day before camp if needed. It isn't like they would get valuable reps with a snapper or have to learn a playbook prior to that.
He's a guy you cant count on at this point. I'd rather have a guy that I know is going to be here for the long haul. We can pretty much get any kicker to match the crappy stats he had last season. Unlike the Baker situation, kickers are more replaceable and Bakers salary/cap hit is a little more difficult to manage.
I think most people are on board with a new kicker. The question is one of timing, not need.