|
|
|
| Quote: |
| Eric W. Davis, an astrophysicist who worked as a subcontractor and then a consultant for the Pentagon U.F.O. program since 2007, said that, in some cases, examination of the materials had so far failed to determine their source and led him to conclude, “We couldn’t make it ourselves.” The constraints on discussing classified programs — and the ambiguity of information cited in unclassified slides from the briefings — have put officials who have studied U.F.O.s in the position of stating their views without presenting any hard evidence. Mr. Davis, who now works for Aerospace Corporation, a defense contractor, said he gave a classified briefing to a Defense Department agency as recently as March about retrievals from “off-world vehicles not made on this earth.” Mr. Davis said he also gave classified briefings on retrievals of unexplained objects to staff members of the Senate Armed Services Committee on Oct. 21, 2019, and to staff members of the Senate Intelligence Committee two days later. |
Part of that is people don't really know exactly what this means or what the impact and/or next steps are.
I guess we can all shake fists at the clouds. That would be one response. Or we could have unfettered panic. Or we can wait to figure out more information
Link - ( New Window )
I can't even wrap my head around that..........
I think maybe what I'm getting at, is for those of us who follow this subject closely, feeling that we are not alone in the Universe and are likely being visited by beings not from Earth (I don't know where they are from either another dimension or planet in our own), it creates a feeling of awe, of yearning to know more. I would hope that if so called non-believers who see that the U.S. and other governments are actively researching these craft, might also feel that sense of wonder and really question our place in the Universe.
Humans have been sending probes and telescopes into the universe for decades for data gathering and scientific learning purposes. If other beings are actually traveling to our planet, is it likely that they can simply jump off a ship and survive here, or that they can travel here in a single lifetime?
I believe there is other life in the galaxy. I think most people do. What I think most don't believe is that other beings are visiting our planet. When proof of a visitor is found, I think you will see the reaction you are now imagining.
Marty have you seen the Gimbal video? Have you listened the eyewitness account Commander David Fravor of his experience encountering a tic-tac shaped craft?
Mike from Ohio : 4:56 pm : link : reply
to suggest that this article suggests we are being visited by beings from other worlds or other dimensions.
I believe there is other life in the galaxy. I think most people do. What I think most don't believe is that other beings are visiting our planet. When proof of a visitor is found, I think you will see the reaction you are now imagining.
What reaction are we supposed to have? Are we supposed to mobilize to seek out other life? Should we start to play out scenarios of alien encounters? I'm not really sure why it matters on the extent that people care.
When people have prosthelytize to me, I ask the question, "Why does it matter how many people believe in your God", I don't often get an answer. Same thing here. Why does it matter how many people believe?
Section there are numerous reports that US Government and govt contractors are in possession of materials from crashed craft.
I can't even wrap my head around that..........
Kinda scary, right? We're talking about the best and brightest saying "Yeah, sorry, but thats beyond the range of our gross knowledge of the universe". Like you said, hard to wrap your head around.
I suspect with more diverse scrutiny, there would be simple a explanation on the origin of the material. And that the likely reason there isn’t more scrutiny is because the government agency who is looking into this, wasn’t in on the secret of the agency who produced it.
The general consensus is that life is most likely to occur on a planet orbiting an F, G, or K star. (The sun is a G star.) The problem is that about 75% of the stars in the galaxy are M class red dwarfs, which are extremely dim. Planets orbiting red dwarfs are therefore not considered to be good candidates for the development of life, although some astronomers think otherwise. (Fifty of the closest 63 stars to our sun are red dwarfs.)
Lists of stars within 75 light years - ( New Window )
The general consensus is that life is most likely to occur on a planet orbiting an F, G, or K star. (The sun is a G star.) The problem is that about 75% of the stars in the galaxy are M class red dwarfs, which are extremely dim. Planets orbiting red dwarfs are therefore not considered to be good candidates for the development of life, although some astronomers think otherwise. (Fifty of the closest 63 stars to our sun are red dwarfs.) Lists of stars within 75 light years - ( New Window )
Great post!
"We couldn't make it ourselves" isn't the same as "Not from this Earth." Because "ourselves" could mean the USA, and another country could have secret technology. Could, but probably not. This isn't the same as an announcement that we've found alien stuff.
Also, as much as I love Star Trek, I also know enough history to know that when a technologically superior civilization encounters a technologically inferior one, it's almost always catastrophic for the technologically inferior civilization. Best case scenario is when the inferior civilization decides to fully embrace the new tech, as Japan did in the 2nd half of the 19th century — which led to victory in the Russo-Japanese war and then disaster in WWII. That rapid modernization also caused massive cultural upheaval. I would not be eager for a "First Contact" scenario.
Quote:
....that doesn't come somehow from the element table?
I can't even wrap my head around that..........
Kinda scary, right? We're talking about the best and brightest saying "Yeah, sorry, but thats beyond the range of our gross knowledge of the universe". Like you said, hard to wrap your head around.
"Kinda scary, right?" That is exactly the implied message behind the government released info. The new History Channel show Unidentified, is chock full of former military & secret service insiders, who have suddenly decided that they can't remain silent any longer. Each one's message is clear, this is a threat. Is it really? People have been reporting sightings for about 100 years. (or longer), If it truly was a threat, we'd all be speaking 'Martian' by now.
I recently watched Steven Greer's Close Encounters Of The Fifth Kind, and while there was a lot of things posed as facts, that I just don't believe, they do mention the same fear based stance these people are taking.
After re-reading my reply to j_rud's post, I'm not trying to be a dick or anything, the reply wasn't meant towards anyone, just the constant threat narrative. Hey, this phenomenon could very well be a threat, but after all these years, we probably would know by now.
As for what it could be, sure all bets are on. Interplanetary, dimensional, or time travelers, could be anything. Witnesses to the Rendlesham Forest incident at Bentwaters AFB in England in the 80's, have laid claim to time travelers. The interesting thing about time travel is that if ever becomes possible, then time travelers would be here now, theoretically...
Quote:
intriguing. Just what materials are they supposedly talking about.
Section there are numerous reports that US Government and govt contractors are in possession of materials from crashed craft.
Well, produce them. What is so important that these items are being hidden from the public?
I don't believe we are alone, but until the Vulcans show up in Montana and appear to Dr Zefram Cochrane I'll reserve my enthusiasm.(yes flippant response)
Heck I have a friend that says people with blue eyes are descendants of aliens and he is a huge believer in extraterrestrials.
The ocean is so uncharted, the ocean is scary.
Quote:
In comment 14939398 section125 said:
Quote:
intriguing. Just what materials are they supposedly talking about.
Section there are numerous reports that US Government and govt contractors are in possession of materials from crashed craft.
Well, produce them. What is so important that these items are being hidden from the public?
I don't believe we are alone, but until the Vulcans show up in Montana and appear to Dr Zefram Cochrane I'll reserve my enthusiasm.(yes flippant response)
Heck I have a friend that says people with blue eyes are descendants of aliens and he is a huge believer in extraterrestrials.
Some people believe that folks with negative blood types are also descendants of aliens.
Quote:
In comment 14939398 section125 said:
Quote:
intriguing. Just what materials are they supposedly talking about.
Section there are numerous reports that US Government and govt contractors are in possession of materials from crashed craft.
Well, produce them. What is so important that these items are being hidden from the public?
I don't believe we are alone, but until the Vulcans show up in Montana and appear to Dr Zefram Cochrane I'll reserve my enthusiasm.(yes flippant response)
Heck I have a friend that says people with blue eyes are descendants of aliens and he is a huge believer in extraterrestrials.
Exactly. If there's all this cool tech that defies the laws of physics as we understand them, then let's see it!
Quote:
I think it is a very large leap
Mike from Ohio : 4:56 pm : link : reply
to suggest that this article suggests we are being visited by beings from other worlds or other dimensions.
I believe there is other life in the galaxy. I think most people do. What I think most don't believe is that other beings are visiting our planet. When proof of a visitor is found, I think you will see the reaction you are now imagining.
What reaction are we supposed to have? Are we supposed to mobilize to seek out other life? Should we start to play out scenarios of alien encounters? I'm not really sure why it matters on the extent that people care.
When people have prosthelytize to me, I ask the question, "Why does it matter how many people believe in your God", I don't often get an answer. Same thing here. Why does it matter how many people believe?
There's a major difference between believing and knowing. If we have verifiable proof that aliens have visited Earth, it would be the most important moment in human history.
But the meaning of verifiable evidence seems to escape many here.
again - what are we supposed to do with the info in the article? What actionable events are we supposed to partake in?
Bold Ruler, have you read The Day After Roswell? I thought it was an entertaining book, and if it is true, then it is likely that is what is being discussed in the NYT article.
The Day After Roswell - ( New Window )
I suspect with more diverse scrutiny, there would be simple a explanation on the origin of the material. And that the likely reason there isn’t more scrutiny is because the government agency who is looking into this, wasn’t in on the secret of the agency who produced it.
There really isn't a marked difference there as both require some form of faith until evidence shows otherwise. I mean the evidence suggests that Jesus Christ existed. But the evidence he rose from the dead or performed miracles doesn't exist.
At this point in time, alleged "non-Earth" materials are about the same as the Shroud of Turin or any Biblical artifact. The Holy Grail. All those objects require a certain amount of faith that they are supernatural until the evidence either confirms or denies the claims.
I actually believe there are other species out there, just like I believe in a Supreme Being, but I can't tell you what the value is in believing in both, either or neither.
I mean, we had Holy Wars over beliefs. But only non-Earth materials have "real" scientific and public safety impacts?
Quote:
"Numerous associates of the Pentagon program, with high security clearances and decades of involvement with official U.F.O. investigations, told us they were convinced such crashes have occurred, based on their access to classified information. But the retrieved materials themselves, and any data about them, are completely off-limits to anyone without clearances and a need to know."
Bold Ruler, have you read The Day After Roswell? I thought it was an entertaining book, and if it is true, then it is likely that is what is being discussed in the NYT article. The Day After Roswell - ( New Window )
I have. Corso makes a very compelling case as does Bob Lazar.
Quote:
In comment 14939940 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
"Numerous associates of the Pentagon program, with high security clearances and decades of involvement with official U.F.O. investigations, told us they were convinced such crashes have occurred, based on their access to classified information. But the retrieved materials themselves, and any data about them, are completely off-limits to anyone without clearances and a need to know."
Bold Ruler, have you read The Day After Roswell? I thought it was an entertaining book, and if it is true, then it is likely that is what is being discussed in the NYT article. The Day After Roswell - ( New Window )
I have. Corso makes a very compelling case as does Bob Lazar.
Bob Lazar's case gets more compelling with every admission by the government. I would bet that he has a piece of Element 115. I would also bet that having it is protecting him somehow.
IMHO, it’s pretty simple - natural resources. Same reason we explore our planet, mine for coal, dig for oil, and have begun to explore the immediate vicinity of our solar system (including comets passing through)
One thing we can generally agree on is there is a certain set of physical laws in the universe. One of which is something cannot be powered in a vacuum - it needs some kind of force to be applied. That requires a form of fuel
While any extraterrestrial beings visiting earth are light years more advanced than we are, it’s no stretch to assume they still require resources to power their civilization. And if they have the technology to explore other worlds, it’s no stretch to assume they’d visit a planet like earth to search for and mine said resources.
Generally I agree with the notion that we, as a civilization/species, probably aren’t all that fascinating to a species that can explore space. Would be kind of equivalent to us being curious when we see a family of animals in their habitat. Interesting, but mostly indifferent to whatever our purpose is.
I think one compelling case is the Ariel School mass sighting in Zimbabwe in 1994. Many school children came away with images and thoughts about humans needing to take care of the planet. They had never had such concerns prior to the sighting.
Similarly, many military nuclear facilities have has UFO activity along with unexplained deactivation of the missiles.
It is quite possible that whoever/whatever these beings are, they are trying to keep a bunch of barely evolved monkeys from destroying their own planet.
I think one compelling case is the Ariel School mass sighting in Zimbabwe in 1994. Many school children came away with images and thoughts about humans needing to take care of the planet. They had never had such concerns prior to the sighting.
Similarly, many military nuclear facilities have has UFO activity along with unexplained deactivation of the missiles.
It is quite possible that whoever/whatever these beings are, they are trying to keep a bunch of barely evolved monkeys from destroying their own planet.
All fair points
I’ll confess to being a bit of an Ancient Aliens fan...and while I fully admit a lot of that stuff is lunatic fringe, there are some compelling things that can’t be ignored.
As in a variety of ancient civilizations leaving behind hieroglyphs that depict images looking a lot like spacecraft.
Point being, it’s no stretch to assume if we are being visited, it’s be going on for a long, long time. Possible predating the evolution of human beings in current form
Quote:
(they show our understanding of physics is either quite basic or fundamentally wrong), our primitive brains couldn't possibly understand motivations of one or more species/civilizations in observing Earth. There are so many possibilities it boggles the mind.
I think one compelling case is the Ariel School mass sighting in Zimbabwe in 1994. Many school children came away with images and thoughts about humans needing to take care of the planet. They had never had such concerns prior to the sighting.
Similarly, many military nuclear facilities have has UFO activity along with unexplained deactivation of the missiles.
It is quite possible that whoever/whatever these beings are, they are trying to keep a bunch of barely evolved monkeys from destroying their own planet.
All fair points
I’ll confess to being a bit of an Ancient Aliens fan...and while I fully admit a lot of that stuff is lunatic fringe, there are some compelling things that can’t be ignored.
As in a variety of ancient civilizations leaving behind hieroglyphs that depict images looking a lot like spacecraft.
Point being, it’s no stretch to assume if we are being visited, it’s be going on for a long, long time. Possible predating the evolution of human beings in current form
Arthur C. Clarke wasn't just spit-balling. It is a legitimate theory, but one we will never ever know the answer to.
And why do they only abduct and probe drunk hillbillies? Are those the beings they have identified as most like themselves? Are all the crashes just extraterrestrial DUIs?
At this point in time, alleged "non-Earth" materials are about the same as the Shroud of Turin or any Biblical artifact. The Holy Grail. All those objects require a certain amount of faith that they are supernatural until the evidence either confirms or denies the claims.
I actually believe there are other species out there, just like I believe in a Supreme Being, but I can't tell you what the value is in believing in both, either or neither.
I mean, we had Holy Wars over beliefs. But only non-Earth materials have "real" scientific and public safety impacts?
There are myriad scientific implications to determining if someone has discovered a non-Earth object. It would be the scientific discovery of our lifetime. There is no faith or leap of faith component necessary. Just scientific analysis.
If the full analysis of the government has determined an object is of unknown origin — the government should allow the private or educational research sector to review it.
The same type of rigor should be applied, that is applied to antiquities. And just like with the spiritual relics you described, after full rigor, it likely turns out there isn’t anything hocus pocus about them. I’d wager that would be the result of a public analysis of the objects described in the article.
Link - ( New Window )