Raanan: Giants opt for 90-man roster to start camp

This benefits young teams with a bunch of first year players and a new coaching staff. The Giants fit that perfectly.

Nine rookies breath a sigh of relief (we have a roster spot open now with Baker's exemption).

That the Giants have tested fairly well. If there were too many first year players that tested positive I would believe they'd just go to the 80 man option.

I want them learning how to be a pro from them. It's an important part of camp IMO.

can't practice with the veteran OL, right?

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In comment 14939413 Sneakers O'toole said:

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I want them learning how to be a pro from them. It's an important part of camp IMO.

The only way they are separated to my understanding is in walk throughs. It is better to get more time with these players with all the time lost. It is only until April 16 and most likely before padded practices. If someone can't do their job for three weeks in walk throughs then they probably shouldn't have been drafted or brought in in the first place. When meetings occur I am sure they are going through film as a whole team anyway. They'll have plenty of tike together when they need to. This is a golden opportunity to make up on missed time.

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is when their heads are spinning the most. I want Thomas right next to Hernandez

In comment 14939426 Sneakers O'toole said:

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is when their heads are spinning the most. I want Thomas right next to Hernandez

Well, I am glad Judge feels differently. I sure hope heads aren't spinning from walk throughs.

doing EVERYTHING together...EVERYTHING.

Just my take.

That is still Greek to half of them. It always is every year at this time.

about the lessons they learn from the older players. Some things can't be taught by coaches. Most of yhem never played. Its a different perspective.

In comment 14939428 Sneakers O'toole said:

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doing EVERYTHING together...EVERYTHING. Just my take.

And under normal circumstances I would agree. These aren't normal circumstances. You'll have too many people just sitting around. Better to get the coaching more one on one. This is their way of getting their rookie mini camp in and I am glad they are taking advantage of it.

You make is sound like they are missing valuable reps. There will be no hitting going in until they all come together. They'll have plenty of practice time together.

In comment 14939433 Sneakers O'toole said:

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about the lessons they learn from the older players. Some things can't be taught by coaches. Most of yhem never played. Its a different perspective.

And why won't this be occurring in meetings?

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it's not. If you trust Judge is the guy in the press conferences and from all the people who know him who say nobody works harder and leaves no stone unturned and will make sure his players are prepared then trust his decision here is in everybody's best interest.

veterans?

A lot of it happens informally. I just don't think keeping an extra 10 guys is worth th hs price of splitting up the team in this fashion.

Their time in the facilities together is already being limited by numbers in other areas, how many in th hff e weight room at a time and so forth

I want my position groups together from the jump. N

In comment 14939440 Ira said:

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veterans?

Because those are the rules agreed upon between the NFLPA and the owners. But, again, these aren't real practices. These are walk throughs. The coaches will be working twice as hard with the two groups so they obviously feel it is beneficial to get them more mental reps on the field doing the work than just standing around.

In comment 14939413 Sneakers O'toole said:

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I want them learning how to be a pro from them. It's an important part of camp IMO.

I agree with everything you said. IMO this increases the chances of Fleming or Gates starting at RT week one.

In comment 14939441 Sneakers O'toole said:

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A lot of it happens informally. I just don't think keeping an extra 10 guys is worth th hs price of splitting up the team in this fashion. Their time in the facilities together is already being limited by numbers in other areas, how many in th hff e weight room at a time and so forth I want my position groups together from the jump. N

Again, that is a horrible way to look at this. It isn't about keeping 10 extra guys. It is about getting more reps for the first year players. More reps with coaches on the field gets them right mentally so their heads are not spinning like you said.

It does indeed. In fairness, those chances were already high after losing the spring.

Hopefully you're right.

In comment 14939409 Eric from BBI said:

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Nine rookies breath a sigh of relief (we have a roster spot open now with Baker's exemption).

Gonna be filled by Golden, no?

Was in the 80 man senario, they can still focus on getting those players extra reps as they see fit. Nothing prevents them from it.

Only one of these scenarios creates new obstacles

In comment 14939452 Sneakers O'toole said:

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Hopefully you're right.

Just think about this. You have 80 guys on the team. They are all rotating in. When does the real coaching happen? The answer is after practice when they go over film. The position coach cannot be everywhere and they don't always see everything.

Now you get just the first year players. You may not even have a full group. That's fine. They'll probably have garbage cans lined up and they go over specific plays. One, they'll be getting WAY more reps in practice, more than the vets. Two, you don't think a guy like Colombo is salivating at the opportunity to get more work with his players? They'll have more time with the players and more film of the players.

Yeah, there are positives and negatives to everything. The veteran presence doesn't outweighs the more reps and one on one coaching that will occur. And on August 16th they'll still be able to get that veteran presence. And remember that these are walk throughs with no pads. Everything a vet is going to say can/will/should be said in their team meetings. The true value of a vet will come when they start hitting. They will adjust to the speed of each player next to them and everything else. Non of that will be missed since there are no pads and no hitting prior to coming together.

In comment 14939455 Sneakers O'toole said:

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Was in the 80 man senario, they can still focus on getting those players extra reps as they see fit. Nothing prevents them from it. Only one of these scenarios creates new obstacles

Time constraints prevent that. Just trust me on this. This extra time will be invaluable for these rookies with the time missed.

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Now you have 10 more players to attend to.

In comment 14939461 robbieballs2003 said:

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In comment 14939455 Sneakers O'toole said: Quote: Was in the 80 man senario, they can still focus on getting those players extra reps as they see fit. Nothing prevents them from it. Only one of these scenarios creates new obstacles Time constraints prevent that. Just trust me on this. This extra time will be invaluable for these rookies with the time missed.

Practice time. They can't just practice for X hours. Splitting the groups guarantees extra time. Get the rookies reps.

But on their own terms as they see fit. All they've done now is lose flexibility. Now you can't mix an and match as you see fit.

Be interesting to see if they cut early

In comment 14939469 Sneakers O'toole said:

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But on their own terms as they see fit. All they've done now is lose flexibility. Now you can't mix an and match as you see fit. Be interesting to see if they cut early

No idea what this means.

But gain a thing you could do anyway.

In comment 14939473 Sneakers O'toole said:

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But gain a thing you could do anyway.

Still no idea what you are talking about. What thing?

don't prevent you from splitting off the rookies to focus on them. You don't gain that hy chosing the 90 man option. You only lose choice going to 90.

In comment 14939475 Sneakers O'toole said:

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don't prevent you from splitting off the rookies to focus on them. You don't gain that hy chosing the 90 man option. You only lose choice going to 90.

And who coaches these rookies when they are off in another group? Come on. Makes no sense. I answered why this is beneficial already and Judge obviously thinks the same.

you lose the ability to get more time with the rookies but also are able to go to the 80 man option when you feel appropriate. So why give up that flexibility?

The vet group still needs coaches running their practices?

Are you saying splitting them by time of day? Rookies in morning, vets in evenings kind of thing?You can do that in the i0 man senario just as easily.

Nothing prevents you.

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Now you can't decide to move a player to thd vet group if you think ghey will benefit. That's the only difference. You lose the choice

In comment 14939486 Sneakers O'toole said:

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The vet group still needs coaches running their practices? Are you saying splitting them by time of day? Rookies in morning, vets in evenings kind of thing?You can do that in the i0 man senario just as easily. Nothing prevents you.

Huh? There is a split squad. If they choose to have them at the same time i guess that could happen but I am under the impression that, yes, there are two different practice times. The NFLPA wants 80 players to minimize the risk of contacting the virus. Why would they want 90 all at once? That doesn't make sense to me. The way I see it is that all coaches coach 2 practices a day at separate times.

How can you do that with an 80 man roster? They have one practice time. Not once have I ever heard of an NFL team have two different practice times for different groups. How is that allowed. And why would YOU want that? You just said that you want all the players together.

I think you just helped me see the error in my ways. In my head, I'm imagining splitting up the 80 man squad by times as well. That may not be allowed. I'm actually not sure.

As to why Iwould want it. I didn't necessarily say I would. Just arguing that you could do anything with ghe 80 man team that you could with 90.

But you're last post has me thinking I may be wrong.

roster, he wants to see as many players as possible. If you cut 10 players now, how do you know one or two of those guys cut isn't a better fit for what the Giants want to do?

Frankly, I think this whole split team or 80 man is idiotic. There has to be more to it.

Im not sure if they state the 80 man unit MUST practice together. It's an important point.

In comment 14939497 Sneakers O'toole said:

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I think you just helped me see the error in my ways. In my head, I'm imagining splitting up the 80 man squad by times as well. That may not be allowed. I'm actually not sure. As to why Iwould want it. I didn't necessarily say I would. Just arguing that you could do anything with ghe 80 man team that you could with 90. But you're last post has me thinking I may be wrong.

Hey, and listen, if what you are thinking is true then I get your point. But to make that decision now wouldn't be wise. Test it out. If it is beneficial for the rookies then keep it going. If not then cut down to 80 and go for there. I think the key is once you cut to 80 you have no other option. If you stay at 90 and don't like it then at least you got to check it out. If the rookies are kicking ass and feel that after like 4 practices they are ready then you move at that point. I just view this as an opportunity for coaches to get their hands on these guys to make up for lost time. I agree with the guys being together. It isn't ideal to have split squads. But if they aren't even hitting before coming together that isn't a big deal to me.

but with all of these protocols in place we have been focusing so much on the players. What if the coaches got tye virus? It could be our RB coach or it could be Judge or it could be our whole offensive staff. I wonder what the plan is then.

In normal years, you certainly don’t need 5 QBs and 7 TEs especially with fewer real practices ... but bc of this dopey virus you need to keep as many as you can just in case someone gets it, One thing we know for sure is that Judge has a very intelligent staff capable of understanding this shit. My guess they talked it over at length and for reasons we can and can’t think of decided this is best ... We’ll have lots of opportunity to 2nd guess shit this year but this is not one.

In comment 14939513 Spider56 said:

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In normal years, you certainly don’t need 5 QBs and 7 TEs especially with fewer real practices ... but bc of this dopey virus you need to keep as many as you can just in case someone gets it, One thing we know for sure is that Judge has a very intelligent staff capable of understanding this shit. My guess they talked it over at length and for reasons we can and can’t think of decided this is best ... We’ll have lots of opportunity to 2nd guess shit this year but this is not one.

You'd have to figure most would be the UDFA. However, we know they really like some of them so it could be someone who was signed to the vet min. Honestly, I wouldn't even know who to start looking at with names.