NFT: Mets vs Red Sox: Peterson debut

I wish we had Syndergaard this year, I think we would have a legit shot at the WS with him. I think we'll be a playoff team but not a title contender.

In comment 14940212 ZGiants98 said:

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In comment 14940208 Rory said: Quote: the last remaining Sandy Alderson relief pitching acquisition in that cluster of bullpen arms he traded for few years back? Nope there's a few left. Hanhold... Ryan... They arent on the taxi squad though.

Zamora, too, right? And is Nogosek still around? Guy pitched great at AAA

In comment 14940215 CMicks3110 said:

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I wish we had Syndergaard this year, I think we would have a legit shot at the WS with him. I think we'll be a playoff team but not a title contender.

Degrom is the best pitcher in baseball. That always gives you a chance in the postseason. To me, the key is getting Stroman back. Jake, Stro, Matz—that’s good enough if the bullpen and lineup live up to expectations.

off to a rough start.

right in Boston.

I thought the stuff from Peterson was pretty solid. His velocity was there, his ball moved, and he threw a lot of pitches. Him turning into a reliable above average 4th/5th starter type would be really sweet for us in 2020 and going into next year too. There's a real difference between Matz type production and Lockett/Oswalt type production.

All that said, he was hit around a bit, 9 baserunners (7h and 2bb) in less than 6 innings is a WHIP over 1.5, and he didn't get a bunch of strikeouts either. D did him in a little bit, but that's the risk you take when you can't generate Ks. He's certainly earned a few more starts until Stroman is ready and earned a chance to compete with Wacha and Porcello for a rotation spot this year.

especially with a mediocre defense allowing a few soft hits per game. If that's his typical start in terms of the way he throws the ball and the contact he allows (actual results against being variable) we will take it. If we want to play worst case with that performance the first batter of the game almost took him deep and when the bases were loaded he got out of the jam instead of giving up a big hit. But change 1 or 2 pitch outcomes and he easily could have given up 3-4 runs over those 5+ innings, which would have still been a decent outing. If he can throw that well and give them another 5+ decent outings this year it will be huge. More than that would be gravy.

is long gone (he's been with the Orioles for almost a year now)

looked as I expected. Velocity was up a tick, changeup didn't look good and that's a concern for some scouts. Not enough to keep hitters off balance long term. He looked like a potential solid #4 and that would be a solid outcome. Improved changeup would give him more upside than that.

I see comparisons to a Buerhle. That seems like a homerun, best case scenario. I could see his career being more at a Niese level, which is not to be underrated.

1. almost everyone traded for them was a FA to be who left the teams that traded for them - Reed, Granderson, Familia, Walker, Duda etc. We've see rentals have very little value in recent years at the deadline and that list isn't exactly blue chip, most were just about out of baseball a couple years later.

2. if I'm remembering correctly they couldn't even eat $ on the trades to get better returns. Shocking for the Wilpons, I know.

3. a lot of the young guys they got spent 2 years competing for BP slots under Callaway who was likely as awful at developing pitchers as he was at everything else despite his reputation. It's probably why none of his former guys from Cleveland ever followed him here despite annual rumors they would. Smith, Bautista, Rhame, Wahl, and probably 1 or 2 others I'm forgetting had good enough stuff that it could have worked and if 1 of them would have worked out well enough it had a chance to make that whole strategy worthwhile. I suppose Smith still could though the odds are likely against.

Of the mistakes Sandy made in his tenure that deadline ranks pretty low down the list for me. Certainly way behind resigning Bruce that following offseason. Which also sort of validates why it was unlikely any team was going to give up a good prospect for him.

In comment 14940290 KDavies said:

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I see comparisons to a Buerhle. That seems like a homerun, best case scenario. I could see his career being more at a Niese level, which is not to be underrated.

Difference is Buehrle's plus CU. Not at all a knock on Peterson. But Buehrle had a legit out pitch (and obviously absurd durability).

In comment 14940290 KDavies said:

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I see comparisons to a Buerhle. That seems like a homerun, best case scenario. I could see his career being more at a Niese level, which is not to be underrated.

Buehrle would definitely be a homerun best case. Buehrle was a really good pitcher. He was basically Andy Pettite except not on the Yankees.

Watching Peterson yesterday I think Niese is a fair yet optimistic outcome. I'd sign for that right now. He appears to have more ability than someone like Gee and just looked like he knew what he was doing in terms of pitching.

In comment 14940297 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 14940290 KDavies said: Quote: I see comparisons to a Buerhle. That seems like a homerun, best case scenario. I could see his career being more at a Niese level, which is not to be underrated. Difference is Buehrle's plus CU. Not at all a knock on Peterson. But Buehrle had a legit out pitch (and obviously absurd durability).

Wasn't Peterson supposed to have a really good curveball at some point? Did that never develop or am I misremembering?

In comment 14940291 Eric on Li said:

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1. almost everyone traded for them was a FA to be who left the teams that traded for them - Reed, Granderson, Familia, Walker, Duda etc. We've see rentals have very little value in recent years at the deadline and that list isn't exactly blue chip, most were just about out of baseball a couple years later. 2. if I'm remembering correctly they couldn't even eat $ on the trades to get better returns. Shocking for the Wilpons, I know. 3. a lot of the young guys they got spent 2 years competing for BP slots under Callaway who was likely as awful at developing pitchers as he was at everything else despite his reputation. It's probably why none of his former guys from Cleveland ever followed him here despite annual rumors they would. Smith, Bautista, Rhame, Wahl, and probably 1 or 2 others I'm forgetting had good enough stuff that it could have worked and if 1 of them would have worked out well enough it had a chance to make that whole strategy worthwhile. I suppose Smith still could though the odds are likely against. Of the mistakes Sandy made in his tenure that deadline ranks pretty low down the list for me. Certainly way behind resigning Bruce that following offseason. Which also sort of validates why it was unlikely any team was going to give up a good prospect for him.

Yeah, Sandy apparently had to dump salary that year to "prove" to the Wilpons that he could.

In comment 14940297 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 14940290 KDavies said: Quote: I see comparisons to a Buerhle. That seems like a homerun, best case scenario. I could see his career being more at a Niese level, which is not to be underrated. Difference is Buehrle's plus CU. Not at all a knock on Peterson. But Buehrle had a legit out pitch (and obviously absurd durability).

.

This kid Peterson is much bigger than Buehrle.
It is hard to believe with the type of stuff that Buehrle
had, he wound up with two no hitters/perfect games.
He had a nice career though, and he worked fast!

landing as a solid 4 would still be great for us. Especially if Thor returns healthy next year (and is resigned) and stroman is brought back. THen your just hoping for Peterson to be your 5.

In comment 14940302 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 14940291 Eric on Li said: Quote: 1. almost everyone traded for them was a FA to be who left the teams that traded for them - Reed, Granderson, Familia, Walker, Duda etc. We've see rentals have very little value in recent years at the deadline and that list isn't exactly blue chip, most were just about out of baseball a couple years later. 2. if I'm remembering correctly they couldn't even eat $ on the trades to get better returns. Shocking for the Wilpons, I know. 3. a lot of the young guys they got spent 2 years competing for BP slots under Callaway who was likely as awful at developing pitchers as he was at everything else despite his reputation. It's probably why none of his former guys from Cleveland ever followed him here despite annual rumors they would. Smith, Bautista, Rhame, Wahl, and probably 1 or 2 others I'm forgetting had good enough stuff that it could have worked and if 1 of them would have worked out well enough it had a chance to make that whole strategy worthwhile. I suppose Smith still could though the odds are likely against. Of the mistakes Sandy made in his tenure that deadline ranks pretty low down the list for me. Certainly way behind resigning Bruce that following offseason. Which also sort of validates why it was unlikely any team was going to give up a good prospect for him. Yeah, Sandy apparently had to dump salary that year to "prove" to the Wilpons that he could.

I think I'm also misremembering timing because I think Familia got traded in 2018 by the 3 headed GM when Sandy bowed out, not during that 2017 BP arm free for all. So really Addison Reed was probably the most valuable guy Sandy traded at the time. Or Bruce.

I do remember Capone saying that they turned down O'Neil for Duda, which isn't exactly turning down Babe Ruth but he probably would have held more prospect value for BVW to waste in a trade than anyone they got back.

been long viewed a sum of his parts. His CB is average. Whether some believed post draft it would become potentially plus, that's possible. Fangraphs gives his CB a 50/80, MLB.com 45/80

In comment 14940304 Carson53 said:

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In comment 14940297 DanMetroMan said: Quote: In comment 14940290 KDavies said: Quote: I see comparisons to a Buerhle. That seems like a homerun, best case scenario. I could see his career being more at a Niese level, which is not to be underrated. Difference is Buehrle's plus CU. Not at all a knock on Peterson. But Buehrle had a legit out pitch (and obviously absurd durability). . This kid Peterson is much bigger than Buehrle. It is hard to believe with the type of stuff that Buehrle had, he wound up with two no hitters/perfect games. He had a nice career though, and he worked fast!

Buehrle was shorter but a MONSTER. 6'2 250ish but yeah it's an unusual profile.

In comment 14940312 DanMetroMan said:

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been long viewed a sum of his parts. His CB is average. Whether some believed post draft it would become potentially plus, that's possible. Fangraphs gives his CB a 50/80, MLB.com 45/80

you're right here was Law's quick blurb on him:

"34. David Peterson, LHP
School: Oregon

A low three-quarters lefty with average stuff, Peterson has posted comical numbers this year for the Ducks, including a 140/15 K/BB ratio (that’s 28/3 for those of you who like your fractions reduced). He succeeds with command despite the lack of fastball life or a plus second pitch."

some quick Buehrle reading... 3 things standout... 3rd all-time in pickoffs, he was an ELITE level fielder for a P (he didn't look like a big athlete) and he allowed 58 total stolen bases... over 16 seasons!

on the roster?

I wonder what would have to happen for him to be involved.

Minor leaguers like him, have the most to lose right now.

24 years old, coming off injury, ascended to AA, but now, no season.

In comment 14940322 pjcas18 said:

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on the roster? I wonder what would have to happen for him to be involved. Minor leaguers like him, have the most to lose right now. 24 years old, coming off injury, ascended to AA, but now, no season.

He's in Brooklyn and part of the 60 player pool

In comment 14940227 Vanzetti said:

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In comment 14940215 CMicks3110 said: Quote: I wish we had Syndergaard this year, I think we would have a legit shot at the WS with him. I think we'll be a playoff team but not a title contender. Degrom is the best pitcher in baseball. That always gives you a chance in the postseason. To me, the key is getting Stroman back. Jake, Stro, Matz—that’s good enough if the bullpen and lineup live up to expectations.

Plus, with the expanded playoffs this year, any team could be an early out in the best of three series the first round. No telling what can happen, and who will be healthy. As long as deGrom is healthy and the rest of the team is not decimated, Mets will have a chance if they make the playoffs.

In comment 14940324 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 14940322 pjcas18 said: Quote: on the roster? I wonder what would have to happen for him to be involved. Minor leaguers like him, have the most to lose right now. 24 years old, coming off injury, ascended to AA, but now, no season. He's in Brooklyn and part of the 60 player pool

So he can pitch in games? or does he need to be on the 30-man for that?

I wonder what would have to happen to see Szapucki pitch in MLB games this year.

yeah they can dip into the player pool. They have so little SP depth that Szapucki 100% has a chance to see CitiField this season. I expect they will shuffle in and out some released veterans before Szapucki but that's just a guess. Really surprised they DFA'ed Gonsalves, he must not be healthy.

In comment 14940335 DanMetroMan said:

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yeah they can dip into the player pool. They have so little SP depth that Szapucki 100% has a chance to see CitiField this season. I expect they will shuffle in and out some released veterans before Szapucki but that's just a guess. Really surprised they DFA'ed Gonsalves, he must not be healthy.

I would expect Kevin Smith before Szapucki.

Jeffrey Paternostro
@jeffpaternostro
·
8m
My main concern with Peterson both as a prospect and going forward is he doesn’t really have anything he can consistently get gloveside. The FB movement is nice but righties will zone it if they know it’s only an outer half option.

suspect Erasmo Ramirez would be next man up as of right now.

In comment 14940337 KDavies said:

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In comment 14940335 DanMetroMan said: Quote: yeah they can dip into the player pool. They have so little SP depth that Szapucki 100% has a chance to see CitiField this season. I expect they will shuffle in and out some released veterans before Szapucki but that's just a guess. Really surprised they DFA'ed Gonsalves, he must not be healthy. I would expect Kevin Smith before Szapucki.

Probably even Lugo in the rotation too before Szapucki, IMO, but I think his upside is probably the highest and he's the most interesting name of the candidates.

In comment 14940341 pjcas18 said:

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In comment 14940337 KDavies said: Quote: In comment 14940335 DanMetroMan said: Quote: yeah they can dip into the player pool. They have so little SP depth that Szapucki 100% has a chance to see CitiField this season. I expect they will shuffle in and out some released veterans before Szapucki but that's just a guess. Really surprised they DFA'ed Gonsalves, he must not be healthy. I would expect Kevin Smith before Szapucki. Probably even Lugo in the rotation too before Szapucki, IMO, but I think his upside is probably the highest and he's the most interesting name of the candidates.

Yeah, upside is highest of any of the prospects at AA or AAA level, but still only 9 starts at high-A, and 1 at AA

Soto has been cleared by the Nats, but not by the DC government.

Eno Sarris
@enosarris
·
1m
hmm, the fastball has got kind of a sinker profile and didn’t have great results, the slider looked good and change ok, command decent, but I think he’ll have to hide the fastball some and live on command despite the elite extension.

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Link - ( New Window )

On at east one of those reliever deals. I believe possibly two.
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Same thing.
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In comment 14940545 ZGiants98 said:

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On at east one of those reliever deals. I believe possibly two. Link - ( New Window )

They threw in money... to... save money. They didn't include money to get back a PTNL or cash.


"At this point, maybe we start referring to Mets trades as "sales" rather than "trades." The Granderson trade was another salary dump for the Mets, after they'd salary dumped Jay Bruce and Lucas Duda as well. All three are quality veteran players who were shipped off for salary relief and minimal prospect return. The approximate savings:

Granderson: $4 million
Bruce: $4 million
Duda: $2.6 million"

In comment 14940548 ZGiants98 said:

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Same thing. Link - ( New Window )

Again... they included cash in order to maximize their savings. Mike Axisa at the time (note Sandy flat out acknowledged this fact)

"All told, the Mets saved roughly $13.6 million in 2017 payroll with their four trades. That money is not, however, necessarily going to be pumped back into the team next year. General manager Sandy Alderson indicated to reporters earlier this week, before the Granderson trade and Rivera claim, his plan coming into the season was go for it, and if it didn't work out, he promised ownership he's shed as much salary as possible."

Anthony DiComo
@AnthonyDiComo
Re: payroll, Alderson implied he persuaded ownership to go over budget this season, with the intention of shedding $ if team didn't contend.

are currently about 350 million in debt on the team alone, they denied, denied denied but the truth is out, the Wilpons were decimated by Madoff stuff and never recovered (things like the real estate market etc) didn't help.

In some ways I'm almost surprised they spent the middle of the pack payrolls that they did now that we know their staring at so much debt. Don't know what the long term plan was other than knowing they would make profit if they sold.

tonight at SS.

Dom playing in Left Field.

Lineup:
Nimmo - CF
McNeil - 3B
Alonso - 1B
Conforto - RF
Smith - LF
Cespedes - DH
Cano - 2B
Gimenez - SS
Rivera - C

that MLB probably knew the situation and didn't force the Wilpons to sell, but forced McCourt to sell the Dodgers to avoid a messy divorce.

McCourt's financial situation was precarious, but I don't know it was worse than this nor was it borderline illegal (or fully illegal based on how much you think the Wilpons knew).

and Flowers both cleared to rejoin the Braves

Lucroy DFA'ed, he looks shot but the Mets have C needs even after adding Bruce Maxwell

In comment 14940577 pjcas18 said:

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that MLB probably knew the situation and didn't force the Wilpons to sell, but forced McCourt to sell the Dodgers to avoid a messy divorce. McCourt's financial situation was precarious, but I don't know it was worse than this nor was it borderline illegal (or fully illegal based on how much you think the Wilpons knew).

You have to wonder how much of it was Fred's relationship with Selig (and Fred always being a good little boy when it came to things such as the draft).

In comment 14940577 pjcas18 said:

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that MLB probably knew the situation and didn't force the Wilpons to sell, but forced McCourt to sell the Dodgers to avoid a messy divorce. McCourt's financial situation was precarious, but I don't know it was worse than this nor was it borderline illegal (or fully illegal based on how much you think the Wilpons knew).

They had to know at least SOME of it ...

"The financially strapped owners of the New York Mets obtained a $40 million "bridge loan" from Bank of America in recent weeks to continue operations until minority shares of the team can be sold, the team acknowledged in a statement Monday.

"The bridge loan was approved by Major League Baseball and the syndicate of lenders to the Mets," the team's statement read. "The process for the sale of minority shares in the team continues to go very well."

Major League Baseball previously loaned the team $25 million this year, which has yet to be repaid.

Mets general manager Sandy Alderson said last week that the organization lost $70 million this year.

On Wednesday, Alderson said he was unaware of ownership seeking the newest $40 million loan until it came to his attention this week."

...the night off. He's had a brutal start and Dom could have gotten his P/T at 1B.

We'll never know but I've long suspected the Wilponsies had gotten some MLB owners involved with dirty money through their Madoff connections. Perhaps even Selig the owner run 'commissioner' who was so generous to them in his rulings and MLB loan money to boot. They definitely weren't going to push them into selling if they had those skeletons in their closet.

In comment 14940591 Torrag said:

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We'll never know but I've long suspected the Wilponsies had gotten some MLB owners involved with dirty money through their Madoff connections. Perhaps even Selig the owner run 'commissioner' who was so generous to them in his rulings and MLB loan money to boot. They definitely weren't going to push them into selling if they had those skeletons in their closet.

Peter Stamos insisted the Wilpons were both warned and chose to ignore it AND shared their "criminal" investing with other owners/wealthy people. Who knows how true any of this stuff was but Selig was a shady character when it comes to Jeff Loria, so why not "now"?

In comment 14940552 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 14940545 ZGiants98 said: Quote: On at east one of those reliever deals. I believe possibly two. Link - ( New Window ) They threw in money... to... save money. They didn't include money to get back a PTNL or cash. "At this point, maybe we start referring to Mets trades as "sales" rather than "trades." The Granderson trade was another salary dump for the Mets, after they'd salary dumped Jay Bruce and Lucas Duda as well. All three are quality veteran players who were shipped off for salary relief and minimal prospect return. The approximate savings: Granderson: $4 million Bruce: $4 million Duda: $2.6 million"

Of course in a sell off of expiring contracts they are saving money overall. However, it’s a myth Sandy wasn’t willing to chip in cash to make the returns better. He openly campaigned to do just that, but the value wasn’t there on the players to make much a difference regardless and he said this.

of a tell-all book we will never know what was offered and what wasn't. What we do know is Granderson had an .815 OPS when he was traded and was absolutely on FIRE before the trade. His final 20 games as a Met his OPS was 1.022 so it seems suspicious (though not impossible) that the absolute best talent offered was a 24 year old mediocre minor league reliever (Jacob Rhame).