and based on the moves the Giants made in the draft and Cam Flemming, I wonder if Gettleman and the Giants front office was taking this in consideration that they would need a new LT and right tackle. You can't risk Jones out there. Good luck to Solder, I don't blame him one bit.
Curious, how does this effect his contract moving forward? Will Giants still have the same flexibility in terms of dead money next season or does that roll to 2022 now?
not Thomas who may benefit from this most, but Cam Fleming.
Eric, Cam Fleming is NOT starting over the #4 overall pick in the draft if that is what you are implying. Assume you mean Fleming is going to the right side.
not Thomas who may benefit from this most, but Cam Fleming.
Eric, Cam Fleming is NOT starting over the #4 overall pick in the draft if that is what you are implying. Assume you mean Fleming is going to the right side.
He means that Thomas was likely starting anyway. The only question was whether it would be at LT or RT.
Solder opting out puts Fleming in the drivers seat for the starting RT position now with a raw 3rd round pick his primary competition.
Since his contract is on pause, he would still have a ton of dead money if we cut him next year. Hopefully we can take the money we save from him opting out for 2020 and have it for 2021. Not sure how this works at all. If we dont get a cap credit, why not sign Clowney or Logan Ryan for a year?
Best of luck to him, my gut says that he's played his last NFL snap but he he's set up for life financially and seems like a sharp enough guy to transition to another career.
Real opportunity here for Thomas to show himself as an LT and also for a guy like Murphy to sneak on the roster.
How does this affect salary cap and does Solder contract roll over 1 more year?
Yes, all contracts of opt outs get pushed back 1 year. Players that are not at high risk get $150,000 that is taken out of their future salary. Players that are at high risk, and I'd assume Solder fits this category, get $350,000 and I believe this does NOT come out of their future salary.
Since his contract is on pause, he would still have a ton of dead money if we cut him next year. Hopefully we can take the money we save from him opting out for 2020 and have it for 2021. Not sure how this works at all. If we dont get a cap credit, why not sign Clowney or Logan Ryan for a year?
Opting out should be like a 1-year retirement. Solder’s contract anticipated that when the contract hit the last year or at the end, his value would be reduced. If everything gets pushed forward, the Giants actually are being penalized for a player’s decision.
Since his contract is on pause, he would still have a ton of dead money if we cut him next year. Hopefully we can take the money we save from him opting out for 2020 and have it for 2021. Not sure how this works at all. If we dont get a cap credit, why not sign Clowney or Logan Ryan for a year?
Opting out should be like a 1-year retirement. Solder’s contract anticipated that when the contract hit the last year or at the end, his value would be reduced. If everything gets pushed forward, the Giants actually are being penalized for a player’s decision.
He is a 3rd pick.
I know he is raw but the timing might be right to throw him in the fire and start building this future line
He is extremely raw and he hasn't had OTA's, minicamp, preseason games, etc. IMO the only way Peart sees the field is is both Fleming and Gates are injured. This benefits Fleming and Gates the most.
when the topic was brought up here a few weeks ago. Makes sense for him given his family situation and the large amount of money (much of it paid by our Giants) that he's already earned. Hopefully his son stays safe during this carnage.
IMO, Gettleman really made a mistake when they didn't cut him this offseason (in addition to signing him to begin with). The good news is that he was so awful last year, his opting out likely won't hurt the on field product at all since he was below replacement level last year and a street FA can likely step in and play at the same level he did last year. It would be really hard for any of these rookies/journeyman to somehow play worse than Solder's awful 2019 season.
Hopefully the cap implications for the Giants are somewhat favorable from this opt-out, but I wouldn't expect that. I think we'll end up stuck with Solder on the same shitty contract next year, except he'll be another year older.
He is a 3rd pick.
I know he is raw but the timing might be right to throw him in the fire and start building this future line
If Peart was really in the discussion, he is a better candidate for LT and Thomas for RT (road grader). I doubt the Giants would do that right now, unless Peart just blew away the competition.
It must've been an extremely difficult decision for Solder
He is a 3rd pick.
I know he is raw but the timing might be right to throw him in the fire and start building this future line
If Peart was really in the discussion, he is a better candidate for LT and Thomas for RT (road grader). I doubt the Giants would do that right now, unless Peart just blew away the competition.
I doubt the Giants would do that. Peart has spent almost all of his time in college at RT. With the limited practice time it makes more sense to keep Thomas and Peart at the same positions they played the previous few years.
100%. I'm sure they held off on that decision as long as they could in case there was a change, but there's no vaccine and there's simply no way for him to be confident about keeping the virus away from his son. Impossible if he is playing football — and if your kid had cancer, would you be wiling to self-isolate away from the family and risk never seeing your kid again? I sure wouldn't. The kid needs dad. Dad needs the family.
Smart decision considering his family situation but we're fucked. Thomas/Fleming/Gates/Peart now the 4 OT's. I doubt they have the depth there to move Gates to OC as was previously discussed as a potential roel for him.
Might as well start with the rookie growing pains now.
I agree. Leave Thomas where he is comfortable and deal with the growing pains. I am hoping that either Gates or Lemieux win the starting center job but if Gates doesn't I would love to see him beat out Fleming for the RT job.
they wouldn't cut him before the season (to save 3.4 Million on this years cap and $20.5 Million on next years cap, or if we elect 9.9 Million this year and 14 next year)? I doubt anyone gave him assurances and, regardless, there's almost no chance he doesn't get cut next year.
It was the only decision for his family and I'm sure he's set for life.
they wouldn't cut him before the season (to save 3.4 Million on this years cap and $20.5 Million on next years cap, or if we elect 9.9 Million this year and 14 next year)? I doubt anyone gave him assurances and, regardless, there's almost no chance he doesn't get cut next year.
It was the only decision for his family and I'm sure he's set for life.
My gut is that the Giants went into this season with the assumption that if there was a year, Solder wasn't going to play. So they drafted and signed players to provide more depth at tackle. What would have been interesting is if the Giants picked at #2, would they have tried to trade down or pass on Young to get Thomas at tackle since that was a bigger need. You can't go into the season with no talent or depth at left tackle and Daniel Jones in his 2nd year.
This was really the only decision he could make. I was shocked when I read this morning that he was going to come in.
Smart decision considering his family situation but we're fucked. Thomas/Fleming/Gates/Peart now the 4 OT's. I doubt they have the depth there to move Gates to OC as was previously discussed as a potential roel for him.
If Gates does start at center they can always move him back to OT if the need arises. It wouldn't be ideal but it's possible.
I wouldn't say that we're fucked. Just take a look at the Jets and Redskins OL situations.
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
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7m
Solder's opt-out frees up approx. $16M on the Giants' cap for 2020. But there's no rush to spend it if they don't want to because they could carry over the cap room to 2021, when all teams may need to squeeze under a smaller cap.
my guess is the Giants don't actually use the cap savings from Solder to sign anyone, let alone Clowney. You just brought back Golden and have XMan and Carter. Gettleman made the comment that it will be sacks by committee.
I read that cap savings can be brought over to 2021. Considering that the cap is going to shrink in 2021 due to the revenue loss, it would make more sense for the Giants to pocket that and apply it next year.
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
·
7m
Solder's opt-out frees up approx. $16M on the Giants' cap for 2020. But there's no rush to spend it if they don't want to because they could carry over the cap room to 2021, when all teams may need to squeeze under a smaller cap.
I think this is false. According to over the cap any money already paid out will still be on the books. He had 6.5 of a signing bonus and 3 mil of a roster bonus. I think that stays on for this year. His base salary of $9.9 will be the savings for this year.
others have said, this is absolutely the right decision. I forgot that Solder also had cancer. He and his wife also have a new baby boy, and infants don't have fully developed immune systems.
Be prepared for Thomas to have a lot of difficulty if he starts at LT without any OTAs or preseason. I could see them starting Fleming at LT at the beginning of the season, and moving Thomas there at some point during the year.
I don't know who is correct, but two of the beats said $16 million and one $19 million.
He gets a $350,000 "stipend" which does not count against the cap. I'm not sure how his bonus money is counted. The contract was basically pushed one year into 2021 and 2022.
I don't know who is correct, but two of the beats said $16 million and one $19 million.
He gets a $350,000 "stipend" which does not count against the cap. I'm not sure how his bonus money is counted. The contract was basically pushed one year into 2021 and 2022.
I'm just going by what OTC stated. I posted it on the other thread.
Thomas- Hernandez- Gates/ Lemieux- Zeitler- Fleming.
Ur OL for 2020.
I have a feeling you will see...
Thomas - Hernandez - TBD - Zeitler - Gates
Fleming may know the OC's offense but I think Gates wins the work outright. The Center will be coming from another team's cuts which is a dicey-matter to add so late but nevertheless that is better than putting up somebody with no talent.
Robert E. Lee in the movie "Gettysburg", "There is no time!"
I keep harping on this but we have 14 padded practices (these are not all full-contact...we probably will only have five or so of those). No preseason.
No matter what happens, 2020 will be a lost season for the Giants, and no one should be blaming anyone when that happens.
Play/don’t play in 2020. It really doesn’t matter. The best thing that can happen is if the Giants play 4-6 games in 2020. That’s it. Just enough games to evaluate what they have, then start planning for 2021.
and the right move. i forgot about his battle with cancer as well...ugh. tough for the family. good thing we invested on the OL....frees up space and may have played his last snap as a Giant. next man up.
Ryan Dunleavy
@rydunleavy
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44s
Confirmed with cap expert @corryjoel
: #Giants could also use the ~$16M cap savings from Nate Solder to just roll into next year's cap, earmarked for Solder, if they don't want to make a big Jadeveon Clowney or Logan Ryan splash.
He is 32 and will reportedly accept a 1 year deal. Zimmer wants him back with Minnesota but he would be a nice stopgap for the Giants. Griffen, Golden, Fackrell, Ximines, and Carter is a solid group.
Robert E. Lee in the movie "Gettysburg", "There is no time!"
I keep harping on this but we have 14 padded practices (these are not all full-contact...we probably will only have five or so of those). No preseason.
Experiments are over.
There is no time.
There is enough time. You should think of Sept as part of that time of still putting things together to see what works.
Ryan Dunleavy
@rydunleavy
·
44s
Confirmed with cap expert @corryjoel
: #Giants could also use the ~$16M cap savings from Nate Solder to just roll into next year's cap, earmarked for Solder, if they don't want to make a big Jadeveon Clowney or Logan Ryan splash.
. The smart move is to roll it over. Especially given a very uncertain season next year. At least most of it.
So, 2021 remaining = 62mm less 16mm signing bonus less 11.5mm (2018) less another 11.5mm (2019) less forfeited 11.5mm (2020) = 11.5mm on the hook for 2021, but not guaranteed. Cap hit if cut after 2020 would be 4mm.
I’m skeptical that they are going to be able to pull this season off. If they do it’s nothing but one big exhibition game. My mind is already focused on the 2021 season.
first half of the season. That said, I think long-term having a tough first half of the season is going to speed the progress of the team. A lot of young guys are going to play minutes they aren't prepared for (yet). But there is nothing like doing in order to learn.
So, 2021 remaining = 62mm less 16mm signing bonus less 11.5mm (2018) less another 11.5mm (2019) less forfeited 11.5mm (2020) = 11.5mm on the hook for 2021, but not guaranteed. Cap hit if cut after 2020 would be 4mm.
If that is the case, Nate Solder place his last game as a Giant more than likely.
He has $3M of his 2020 salary guaranteed. So they will be on the hook for $3M next year when he is released.
Thanks.
Where does it say that? It is a roster bonus not not 3 mil of his base salary. His roster bonus is paid already
Look under the guaranteed salary column.... - ( New Window )
I don't see a guaranteed salary column. What I do see is the prorated column that adds up to $23.5 mil and his 2018 and 2019 salaries that add up to $11.3 mil. When you add up those 2 you get the $34.8 total guaranteed money. I'm not saying you are wrong. I know you are good with this. I just don't see it.
I don't see a guaranteed salary column. What I do see is the prorated column that adds up to $23.5 mil and his 2018 and 2019 salaries that add up to $11.3 mil. When you add up those 2 you get the $34.8 total guaranteed money. I'm not saying you are wrong. I know you are good with this. I just don't see it.
It's in between the "workout bonus" column and the "cap number" column.
I don't see a guaranteed salary column. What I do see is the prorated column that adds up to $23.5 mil and his 2018 and 2019 salaries that add up to $11.3 mil. When you add up those 2 you get the $34.8 total guaranteed money. I'm not saying you are wrong. I know you are good with this. I just don't see it.
It's in between the "workout bonus" column and the "cap number" column.
I don't have that on my phone. The only columns I have are base salary, pro rated, roster bonus. So, if that is there then thank you.
I just switched to the desktop view on my phone and I see it now.
#Giants Nate Solder Having beaten cancer clearly qualifies for $350K plus accrues a season. Joins growing list of guys choosing to protect their Guaranteed Money from potential Covid shutdown. Health a factor for all parties, but so is money.
Owners getting interest free loans.
There was a chance he was going to get cut this year
I would imagine that it's a foregone conclusion that he will be cut next season after being out of football for a year and a half. I appreciate him making the decision that much easier for Gettleman.
i guess the next question is, is that 3 mil guaranteed the roster bonus or part of the base salary? If is weird to add up the prorated money and his first two year salaries and get the guaranteed number without that 3 mil.
Milton — my understanding of his contract is he has 4M left of his original signing bonus + 2.5M from 2019 when part of his salary was restructured into a signing bonus.
That would be 6.5M in dead money for 2021. And then add 3M for the roster bonus he earned this year?
Smart #Giants Nate Solder. Don’t risk your $9.9M. Take $350K, already got a $3M roster bonus plus $100K workout. If season shut down, Solder would lose $618,750 per game. And then get cut next offseason.
Also saves Giants $9.9M in Cash. Pretty valuable given cash flow concerns.
Some good and bad news from the Giants family he made the right decision and expressed it correctly his God and family come first. The bad is just like any injury next man up hopefully we have one somewhere but it’s sad but not stupidity related Giants news for a change.
signing someone like Griffen would be great if he even gets us to relevant in the playoff race. Using that money on another 6 win or less team isn't wise.
There is a margin of error for sure but even as recently as last year the LW trade is a perfect example of using resources on a lost season without moving the needle.
I'd advocate for the banking the money looking at our roster but if a number of players take a step forward and we add another piece we could make playoff noise conceivably. It's important that our front office shows improvement in understanding what is hopeful vs. reasonably expected.
My opinion of Solder’s play is no secret. I firmly believe Fleming and Thomas would be the two best tackles in a fair competition. So I don’t think this changes who the day one starters were going to be.
I really, really wish the Giants had signed Kelvin Beachum to a 1 year deal and let him battle it out with Fleming.
it doesn't make sense to try and sign Clowney, and he wants to play for a winner.
Agreed. Even if the 2021 cap were known, using Solder's freed up $$ to a 'splash' would be making the same mistake that DG did in 2018 signing all the FAs for Eli's last run, when it was/became clear they would not be competitive. Hopefully, they learned at least that lesson.
Only splash..should for a.proven center if.one.is out there
given both his health history, along with that of his family. He's making a wholly respectable and wise decision, and ultimately making the proper sacrifices necessary for his family.
-------- Religious rant begins here. --------
However, I find it very disappointing that Nate is one of those highly brain-washed individuals who believe some dude from over 2,000 years ago, who is described using little logic and zero science, who only survives to this day due to verbal and written folklore, is responsible for ANY aspect of Nate's life.
Nate missed a block and Eli/Daniel gets hammered by a 280 lb. natural freak of athleticism.
Nate:"Dear lord and savior Jesus Christ, please ensure on the next play no harm comes to my QB."
The next play: "False start on offense, #76."
Nate: "Oh thank you God, my prayers have been answered; I am forever in your flock, almighty God.
or example, just as you can't "pray away the gay," you also can't "pray away the poor play at LT for the NY Foot ball Giants." I'm calling it; Nat'e career as an NFL LT is over.
RE: Only splash..should for a.proven center if.one.is out there
if I was in that situation and already had as much in the bank, I'd spend every second I could with my child and wouldn't even like traveling as much as is typically necessary in a normal season. Wish him and his family the best.
One impact player can have a ripple effect. Also he has matured into an on field leader
Dave had all this cap space and did not sign a single
Impact player.
The offense will be way better if they can establish the run and play ball control, not asking DJ to carry the load. Can’t do that if you are down 22 because the D can’t stop anyone
Is this your big chance to share that.?
STFU
If Solder believes in God and he feels like this is the right choice for him and his FAMILY, then wish him well.
I admire the sincerity of your good wishes to Nate and his family, and I respect your conviction regarding what you perceive as the folly or fiction of religious faith. As someone who leans more towards Nate's outlook than yours, however, I wonder if there is anyone now dead who in some way influences YOUR life: a parent, a grandparent, the founder of a company, an artist, a musician - heck, Elvis or Kurt Cobain - a writer, a philosopher... If so, then you may want to consider that other people's point of view regarding their religion is not a difference in nature but in degree. To them (and I'll include myself), someone who walked the earth 2000 years ago apparently lived a life and death so important that his influence remains strong -- even immediate -- through the present day. I won't speak for Nate, but I hope you might reconsider the possibility that just as Bach or Hendrix or Mark Twain or Stan Lee "live on" in their music or writing, so too Jesus (or Muhammed or Buddha) live on in their words and deeds, and thus retain the power to change the minds and hearts of those who honor them.
I could say more, acknowledging the heinous misdeeds of religious zealots throughout history (from the Crusades to 9/11 and, sadly, so much more) and the appearance that many religious beliefs may appear no more substantial than "belief" in the Tooth Fairy, but I'll just leave it at that. If you can acknowledge that someone who is dead nonetheless continues to influence your life, then I hope that, even though you don't share someone else's faith, you'll at least entertain the possibility that they're not entirely delusional.
but holy douchebag. Solder is a good man, and seems like a model husband/father/son who has given a ton back to his communities and for cancer research. He doesn't deserve to be mocked for his religious beliefs even if you don't happen to agree with them.
Milton — my understanding of his contract is he has 4M left of his original signing bonus + 2.5M from 2019 when part of his salary was restructured into a signing bonus.
That would be 6.5M in dead money for 2021. And then add 3M for the roster bonus he earned this year?
given both his health history, along with that of his family. He's making a wholly respectable and wise decision, and ultimately making the proper sacrifices necessary for his family.
-------- Religious rant begins here. --------
However, I find it very disappointing that Nate is one of those highly brain-washed individuals who believe some dude from over 2,000 years ago, who is described using little logic and zero science, who only survives to this day due to verbal and written folklore, is responsible for ANY aspect of Nate's life.
Nate missed a block and Eli/Daniel gets hammered by a 280 lb. natural freak of athleticism.
Nate:"Dear lord and savior Jesus Christ, please ensure on the next play no harm comes to my QB."
The next play: "False start on offense, #76."
Nate: "Oh thank you God, my prayers have been answered; I am forever in your flock, almighty God.
or example, just as you can't "pray away the gay," you also can't "pray away the poor play at LT for the NY Foot ball Giants." I'm calling it; Nat'e career as an NFL LT is over.
If you are an atheist, no need to hate on others beliefs. We all have our doubts and/or varying levels of religious standing. Nobody said anything about the "Holy Spirit" improving Nate's play.
RE: As a cancer survivor myself, I think this is a smart decision
given both his health history, along with that of his family. He's making a wholly respectable and wise decision, and ultimately making the proper sacrifices necessary for his family.
-------- Religious rant begins here. --------
However, I find it very disappointing that Nate is one of those highly brain-washed individuals who believe some dude from over 2,000 years ago, who is described using little logic and zero science, who only survives to this day due to verbal and written folklore, is responsible for ANY aspect of Nate's life.
Nate missed a block and Eli/Daniel gets hammered by a 280 lb. natural freak of athleticism.
Nate:"Dear lord and savior Jesus Christ, please ensure on the next play no harm comes to my QB."
The next play: "False start on offense, #76."
Nate: "Oh thank you God, my prayers have been answered; I am forever in your flock, almighty God.
or example, just as you can't "pray away the gay," you also can't "pray away the poor play at LT for the NY Foot ball Giants." I'm calling it; Nat'e career as an NFL LT is over.
Lovely. I will go with a brain-washed individual over somebody lacking one any day of the week.
Baseball is one thing - if MLB wants to go forward with a quasi-exhibition season or whatever 2020 winds up being for them, fine - but NFL is so much more intensive on players, keeping themselves at obscene and unnatural weight and strength levels for an entire NFL season - we've already seen the results of shortened offseason programs over time, the increase in NFL injuries indisputable.
I think it's reckless to go forward in this manner - barely any meaningful training camp, no preseason, they're just going to run with the bulls without enough preparation.
I fear a rash of injuries. Barkley and Jones should sit to protect their futures.
Duggan on the Athletic says that the 2020 salary will be moved to 2021. If the Giants cut Soldier after this season then $3.5 million cap will be saved, and the Giants would eat $13 million in dead money. https://theathletic.com/1961103/2020/07/29/what-nate-solders-opt-out-means-for-the-giants/ - ( New Window )
As mentioned yesterday, Spotrac has updated its Nate Solder page.
They have Solder's dead cap at $6.5M for 2021.
The difference between that number and Duggan's number is two 2020 bonus numbers ($4M signing and $2.5M restructure) staying with 2020 accounting rather than being pushed to 2021.
Over the Cap has not updated Solder's page, but they have spelled out an accounting theory for opt-outs that appears consistent with Spotrac's numbers. You can find that at the outset of robbieballs' thread from yesterday.
Any hate going his way today are from idiotic overgrown babies that will live life permenently handicaped, stupid is forever. Good luck and God bless Nate.
Any hate going his way today are from idiotic overgrown babies that will live life permenently handicaped, stupid is forever. Good luck and God bless Nate.
Mostly +1 ... wisdom comes with age and experience.
Smart #Giants Nate Solder. Don’t risk your $9.9M. Take $350K, already got a $3M roster bonus plus $100K workout. If season shut down, Solder would lose $618,750 per game. And then get cut next offseason.
Also saves Giants $9.9M in Cash. Pretty valuable given cash flow concerns.
If I’m reading this correctly, if the season gets derailed at any point, the players that actually decided to play lose their game checks for whatever games are canceled and never get to make that money up? But if they opt out, their contracts are totally pushed back a year, meaning they lose nothing? If that’s the case, why would ANY player decide to play in this awful season? Something doesn’t sound right about that
Smart #Giants Nate Solder. Don’t risk your $9.9M. Take $350K, already got a $3M roster bonus plus $100K workout. If season shut down, Solder would lose $618,750 per game. And then get cut next offseason.
Also saves Giants $9.9M in Cash. Pretty valuable given cash flow concerns.
If I’m reading this correctly, if the season gets derailed at any point, the players that actually decided to play lose their game checks for whatever games are canceled and never get to make that money up? But if they opt out, their contracts are totally pushed back a year, meaning they lose nothing? If that’s the case, why would ANY player decide to play in this awful season? Something doesn’t sound right about that
There are more variables that go into it. Someone in Nate's situation will benefit from option out. However, lets say Barkley opted out. He is not at high risk so he doesn't get a vested year. That means he will be one year older beforr he hits FA and that could really hurt his long term value on a long term contract.
In Nate's case, since he is a high risk person, even with sitting out his year counts.
So, all these young guys on their first contracts that want to get a larger second contract it makes sense for them to play this year and hope they get the 6 games in or wha5ever they need to have this count as a year.
Markus Golden is another example. Sitting out won't help him get to where he needs to be. He wants to earn a larger contract. He has to be on the field to do that.
If I’m reading this correctly, if the season gets derailed at any point, the players that actually decided to play lose their game checks for whatever games are canceled and never get to make that money up? But if they opt out, their contracts are totally pushed back a year, meaning they lose nothing? If that’s the case, why would ANY player decide to play in this awful season? Something doesn’t sound right about that
Don't blame you for reading it that way but it's not the case for Solder because his remaining salary is not guaranteed.
If the Giants cut him before next season, he never gets the $9.9M salary.
If I’m reading this correctly, if the season gets derailed at any point, the players that actually decided to play lose their game checks for whatever games are canceled and never get to make that money up? But if they opt out, their contracts are totally pushed back a year, meaning they lose nothing? If that’s the case, why would ANY player decide to play in this awful season? Something doesn’t sound right about that
Don't blame you for reading it that way but it's not the case for Solder because his remaining salary is not guaranteed.
If the Giants cut him before next season, he never gets the $9.9M salary.
Nor roster bonus. I think just his pro-rated signing bonuses count.
correct. The Giants were not going to cut Solder this year. They already gave him $3 mil as a roster bonus. People focus on the dead money for some reason. No idea why. You have to worry about the dead money when structuring a contract. Once the contract is signed it doesn't matter anymore with decision making. You look at how much cap savings you'll get when releasing a player and if his replacement can be had for that.
If the Giants released Nate before he made his decision the Giants would only save $3.5 mil. They were better off keeping him. You could argue that they could have saved $6.5 before giving him the roster bonus but that is another conversation.
Now, because he opted out the numbers change which almost all the beat writers keep fucking up. Now we get a cap savings of around $10 mil this year. I dont know if his $350,000 amount gets put in there along with a $100,000 workout bonus because of this offseason. But lets just say approximately $10 mil.
Next year his number changes. If he didn't opt out we'd save $14 mil. But since he did opt out, we'll save another 7 mil on next year's cap I believe. So over the two years we are getting a cap savings of $17 mil. I think that is right. He'd be on the books for 9.9 base salary, plus .1 workout bonus plus 6.5 prorated for a total of $16.5. Subtract out the 6.5 prorated amount we have to pay to get to 10. Then subtract out another 3 for guaranteed salary. That is how you get 7 mil next year.
correct. The Giants were not going to cut Solder this year. They already gave him $3 mil as a roster bonus. People focus on the dead money for some reason. No idea why. You have to worry about the dead money when structuring a contract. Once the contract is signed it doesn't matter anymore with decision making. You look at how much cap savings you'll get when releasing a player and if his replacement can be had for that.
If the Giants released Nate before he made his decision the Giants would only save $3.5 mil. They were better off keeping him. You could argue that they could have saved $6.5 before giving him the roster bonus but that is another conversation.
Now, because he opted out the numbers change which almost all the beat writers keep fucking up. Now we get a cap savings of around $10 mil this year. I dont know if his $350,000 amount gets put in there along with a $100,000 workout bonus because of this offseason. But lets just say approximately $10 mil.
Next year his number changes. If he didn't opt out we'd save $14 mil. But since he did opt out, we'll save another 7 mil on next year's cap I believe. So over the two years we are getting a cap savings of $17 mil. I think that is right. He'd be on the books for 9.9 base salary, plus .1 workout bonus plus 6.5 prorated for a total of $16.5. Subtract out the 6.5 prorated amount we have to pay to get to 10. Then subtract out another 3 for guaranteed salary. That is how you get 7 mil next year.
It may not be a guarantee he is released next year. If we are only saving an additional 7 next year we have to see where our OL is. Does Fleming leave? Is Peart ready? Did Thomas play well? There are a lot of questions.
Also, with the way the NFL is lately, teams are desperate for OL. It wouldn't hurt us to trade him. Of we traded him we'd save an extra 3 mil on the cap because his new team would pay the 3 mil of his guaranteed salary. I'd imaging a team would be willing to take that chance on him for a late pick. Even if we get a 7th, a trade benefits us way more than a release.
The biggest obstacle would be the money because of the cap next year. But a team can restructure his contract with only 3 mil guaranteed left on his deal so it would be very easy for both sides to want to do that. If traded, he count for 10 mil on the books for his new team. If you push back some of that money and get him under 10 for the year that looks like a good deal for another team.
Is it likely? Maybe not because he wasn't playing well and took a year off. Is it possible? Yeah.
Then subtract out another 3 for guaranteed salary. That is how you get 7 mil next year.
My thought is that $3M in the OTC guarantee column is just a restatement of the 2020 roster bonus and that is why Spotrac shows a 2021 cap cut savings of $10M rather than $7M.
Then subtract out another 3 for guaranteed salary. That is how you get 7 mil next year.
My thought is that $3M in the OTC guarantee column is just a restatement of the 2020 roster bonus and that is why Spotrac shows a 2021 cap cut savings of $10M rather than $7M.
Could be. I was talking about that with Milton yesterday.
Shyster, I don't believe it is. I just worked the numbers
9.9 - base salary
6.5 - prorated bonus
3.0 - roster bonus
0.1 - workout bonus
----------------------
19.5 - amount on the books
If we cut him then:
19.5 - total
-13.0 - rest of the prorated money
-----------------------------------
6.5 - should be his cap hit but it isn't
-3.0 - guaranteed salary
-----------------------------------
3.0 - real cap hit for 2020 if he didn't opt out.
That means his $3 mil guaranteed salary comes from his base salary and hasn't been paid out yet.
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
Wasn't easy getting to the bottom of the cap implications of Solder's opt out (the league is still finalizing a lot of these types of details), but here's my understanding with a handy chart showing what his contract looked like pre-opt out and now:
Duggan most likely has the cap implications set. The only qualifier is the savings enjoyed this year can rollover to next year. So whether they pay him or cut him and incur the dead money, it can be “paid for” it they don’t spend it this year.
RE: Shyster, I don't believe it is. I just worked the numbers
9.9 - base salary
6.5 - prorated bonus
3.0 - roster bonus
0.1 - workout bonus
----------------------
19.5 - amount on the books
If we cut him then:
19.5 - total
-13.0 - rest of the prorated money
-----------------------------------
6.5 - should be his cap hit but it isn't
-3.0 - guaranteed salary
-----------------------------------
3.0 - real cap hit for 2020 if he didn't opt out.
That means his $3 mil guaranteed salary comes from his base salary and hasn't been paid out yet.
I'll have to think about it more but my initial reaction is that, if you cut a player after paying him a roster bonus, that could be included in the dead cap, which, added to the prorated bonus, would reduce the cap savings accordingly.
If he actually has guaranteed salary remaining, then Spotrac's numbers are not right.
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
Wasn't easy getting to the bottom of the cap implications of Solder's opt out (the league is still finalizing a lot of these types of details), but here's my understanding with a handy chart showing what his contract looked like pre-opt out and now:
OTC and Dunleavy's cap guru stated that any prorated money stays. Basically money paid stays, money not paid moves.
In comment 14940970 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
and no dead money for 2021. It would, in a sense, be consistent with this decision.
I wish, CHP, but retirement won't eliminate the dead cap because Solder has the money and can rightfully keep it.
shyster, doesn't that pertain only to guaranteed money (~$3mm some odd) and not his 2020, now 2021, salary?
The $6.5M dead money that he will count for 2021 if Spotrac's numbers are correct, come from the $4M prorated signing bonus and $2.5M prorated restructure bonus.
If Duggan is right that more bonus money is pushed to 2021, that would increase the 2021 dead cap but could still not be retrieved.
Whether Solder has $3M in guaranteed salary pending is not clear, as being discussed. If he does, and Spotrac is wrong, that may pose another issue.
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
Wasn't easy getting to the bottom of the cap implications of Solder's opt out (the league is still finalizing a lot of these types of details), but here's my understanding with a handy chart showing what his contract looked like pre-opt out and now:
.
The terminology I am reading is they are calling it a 'pause', if the player opts out. So just pushing the contract back a year.
Solder has been dealing with his son's issues since his birth, and they had another child recently too.
I do hope for the best regarding his son.
I read he was going back to Boston on Tuesdays
last year, for his son's chemo treatments.
I admire the sincerity of your good wishes to Nate and his family, and I respect your conviction regarding what you perceive as the folly or fiction of religious faith. As someone who leans more towards Nate's outlook than yours, however, I wonder if there is anyone now dead who in some way influences YOUR life: a parent, a grandparent, the founder of a company, an artist, a musician - heck, Elvis or Kurt Cobain - a writer, a philosopher... If so, then you may want to consider that other people's point of view regarding their religion is not a difference in nature but in degree. To them (and I'll include myself), someone who walked the earth 2000 years ago apparently lived a life and death so important that his influence remains strong -- even immediate -- through the present day. I won't speak for Nate, but I hope you might reconsider the possibility that just as Bach or Hendrix or Mark Twain or Stan Lee "live on" in their music or writing, so too Jesus (or Muhammed or Buddha) live on in their words and deeds, and thus retain the power to change the minds and hearts of those who honor them.
I could say more, acknowledging the heinous misdeeds of religious zealots throughout history (from the Crusades to 9/11 and, sadly, so much more) and the appearance that many religious beliefs may appear no more substantial than "belief" in the Tooth Fairy, but I'll just leave it at that. If you can acknowledge that someone who is dead nonetheless continues to influence your life, then I hope that, even though you don't share someone else's faith, you'll at least entertain the possibility that they're not entirely delusional.
Thanks.
Your need sir to ridicule a man s faith and conviction, says volumes about you.
I always found that OTC is more accurate than Spotrac.
May be the case but, as of the moment, we don't have an updated Solder breakdown from OTC that poses a clear conflict with Spotrac.
As you pointed out yesterday, giving Solder that $3M in remaining guaranteed salary would increase his total guaranteed beyond the $34.8M that OTC shows for him on that same detail page.
I always found that OTC is more accurate than Spotrac.
May be the case but, as of the moment, we don't have an updated Solder breakdown from OTC that poses a clear conflict with Spotrac.
As you pointed out yesterday, giving Solder that $3M in remaining guaranteed salary would increase his total guaranteed beyond the $34.8M that OTC shows for him on that same detail page.
i was initially wrong. His signing bonus was 16M for a 4 year deal. The rest of his guaranteed money was 18.4 which included 18 & 19 salary. Part of his salary was converted to bonus -7.5M. Salary paid in 18 & 19 was 11.3M
18 - 4M bonus
19 - 4M
20 - moved out
21 - 4M
22 - 4M
it is really accounting purposes - his guaranteed money has been paid (16M + 7.5M + 11.3M)
His roster bonus is above an beyond
Very little chance Solder ever plays for Giants again
DG converted 5 million of 2020-1 salary to a signing bonus to get under cap. Solder already received his 3 million roster bonus 2020
That’s 8 extra million. So why would he play with all the uncertainty? He could wind up going through training camp and getting zero if the season is canceled. He could catch Covid
Converting 5 million to signing bonus was dumb. It was already clear Solder had slipped and likely would be cut after 2020. He would have been cut after this year if not for the dead money
So they made a dumb move but then caught a break with his opting out because they gain cap flexibility
DG converted 5 million of 2020-1 salary to a signing bonus to get under cap. Solder already received his 3 million roster bonus 2020
That’s 8 extra million. So why would he play with all the uncertainty? He could wind up going through training camp and getting zero if the season is canceled. He could catch Covid
Converting 5 million to signing bonus was dumb. It was already clear Solder had slipped and likely would be cut after 2020. He would have been cut after this year if not for the dead money
So they made a dumb move but then caught a break with his opting out because they gain cap flexibility
He’s crap as a player. They already have Fleming as a stop gap. Maybe peart gets some real reps this year. And they now are better positioned moving forward w the cap
They will certainly cut him next year so the cap savings from this year will lessen his dead money
They just better not be stupid and waste these cap saving on a veteran
Play all your rookies, develop Jones and see where your O line and D is at. No one is going to take 2020 seriously considered the lack of preseason and important players opting out. Look at the entire year as preseason for 2021.
i was initially wrong. His signing bonus was 16M for a 4 year deal. The rest of his guaranteed money was 18.4 which included 18 & 19 salary. Part of his salary was converted to bonus -7.5M. Salary paid in 18 & 19 was 11.3M
18 - 4M bonus
19 - 4M
20 - moved out
21 - 4M
22 - 4M
it is really accounting purposes - his guaranteed money has been paid (16M + 7.5M + 11.3M)
His roster bonus is above an beyond
What do you mean '20 "moved out."
Bonus money is not being tolled like base salary at all. It will be paid, or has been paid already, and still accounts against the cap.
If he's not brought back in 2021, the Giants will only be responsible for ONE YEAR more of bonus money.
Curious, how does this effect his contract moving forward? Will Giants still have the same flexibility in terms of dead money next season or does that roll to 2022 now?
Eric, Cam Fleming is NOT starting over the #4 overall pick in the draft if that is what you are implying. Assume you mean Fleming is going to the right side.
Great minds think alike!
He had to his son fighting cancer is very vulnerable to Corona God forbid
Quote:
not Thomas who may benefit from this most, but Cam Fleming.
Eric, Cam Fleming is NOT starting over the #4 overall pick in the draft if that is what you are implying. Assume you mean Fleming is going to the right side.
He means that Thomas was likely starting anyway. The only question was whether it would be at LT or RT.
Solder opting out puts Fleming in the drivers seat for the starting RT position now with a raw 3rd round pick his primary competition.
Prayers for his family.
testicular cancer in 2015
hopefully Peart show enough to beat out Gates and Fleming.
Quote:
?
testicular cancer in 2015
Thanks. I never knew that.
I think they want Gates competing at C but now with this move he may be taking on both positions.
And the OL Coach has a lot of work ahead of him.
You beat me to it...I never heard anything about "his" cancer before. If it was last year, that would explain his poor season.
One less preseason debate for BBI. Now, Gates or Fleming to RT.
Fleming was adequate at RT for the Patriots, but a bit shaky at LT for the Cowboys.
Ur OL for 2020.
I expect Thomas to be really good, but not on his first day.
I hope everything works out well for him and his family.
Real opportunity here for Thomas to show himself as an LT and also for a guy like Murphy to sneak on the roster.
Yes, all contracts of opt outs get pushed back 1 year. Players that are not at high risk get $150,000 that is taken out of their future salary. Players that are at high risk, and I'd assume Solder fits this category, get $350,000 and I believe this does NOT come out of their future salary.
Opting out should be like a 1-year retirement. Solder’s contract anticipated that when the contract hit the last year or at the end, his value would be reduced. If everything gets pushed forward, the Giants actually are being penalized for a player’s decision.
I know he is raw but the timing might be right to throw him in the fire and start building this future line
Opting out should be like a 1-year retirement. Solder’s contract anticipated that when the contract hit the last year or at the end, his value would be reduced. If everything gets pushed forward, the Giants actually are being penalized for a player’s decision.
I know he is raw but the timing might be right to throw him in the fire and start building this future line
He is extremely raw and he hasn't had OTA's, minicamp, preseason games, etc. IMO the only way Peart sees the field is is both Fleming and Gates are injured. This benefits Fleming and Gates the most.
I know he is raw but the timing might be right to throw him in the fire and start building this future line
I have a feeling we’ll see him on the field earlier than a lot of people think. He’ll certainly get his chances
IMO, Gettleman really made a mistake when they didn't cut him this offseason (in addition to signing him to begin with). The good news is that he was so awful last year, his opting out likely won't hurt the on field product at all since he was below replacement level last year and a street FA can likely step in and play at the same level he did last year. It would be really hard for any of these rookies/journeyman to somehow play worse than Solder's awful 2019 season.
Hopefully the cap implications for the Giants are somewhat favorable from this opt-out, but I wouldn't expect that. I think we'll end up stuck with Solder on the same shitty contract next year, except he'll be another year older.
I know he is raw but the timing might be right to throw him in the fire and start building this future line
If Peart was really in the discussion, he is a better candidate for LT and Thomas for RT (road grader). I doubt the Giants would do that right now, unless Peart just blew away the competition.
My $$$ is on Fleming starting given he knows the new OL system.
Quote:
He is a 3rd pick.
I know he is raw but the timing might be right to throw him in the fire and start building this future line
If Peart was really in the discussion, he is a better candidate for LT and Thomas for RT (road grader). I doubt the Giants would do that right now, unless Peart just blew away the competition.
I doubt the Giants would do that. Peart has spent almost all of his time in college at RT. With the limited practice time it makes more sense to keep Thomas and Peart at the same positions they played the previous few years.
My $$$ is on Fleming starting given he knows the new OL system.
Starting where RT?
My $$$ is on Fleming starting given he knows the new OL system.
100% agree. I think it's his job to lose.
Might as well start with the rookie growing pains now.
Might as well start with the rookie growing pains now.
I agree. Leave Thomas where he is comfortable and deal with the growing pains. I am hoping that either Gates or Lemieux win the starting center job but if Gates doesn't I would love to see him beat out Fleming for the RT job.
It was the only decision for his family and I'm sure he's set for life.
It was the only decision for his family and I'm sure he's set for life.
My gut is that the Giants went into this season with the assumption that if there was a year, Solder wasn't going to play. So they drafted and signed players to provide more depth at tackle. What would have been interesting is if the Giants picked at #2, would they have tried to trade down or pass on Young to get Thomas at tackle since that was a bigger need. You can't go into the season with no talent or depth at left tackle and Daniel Jones in his 2nd year.
This was really the only decision he could make. I was shocked when I read this morning that he was going to come in.
If Gates does start at center they can always move him back to OT if the need arises. It wouldn't be ideal but it's possible.
I wouldn't say that we're fucked. Just take a look at the Jets and Redskins OL situations.
+1
@giantswfan
·
7m
Solder's opt-out frees up approx. $16M on the Giants' cap for 2020. But there's no rush to spend it if they don't want to because they could carry over the cap room to 2021, when all teams may need to squeeze under a smaller cap.
I read that cap savings can be brought over to 2021. Considering that the cap is going to shrink in 2021 due to the revenue loss, it would make more sense for the Giants to pocket that and apply it next year.
I posted this on my other thread. It appears all his guaranteed money has been paid out.
They wouldn't have taken the huge dead cap hit to cut him. Nor would they pay him even more money not to be the starter.
Next year is going to be a tough call because the dead cap hit will still be high.
@giantswfan
·
7m
Solder's opt-out frees up approx. $16M on the Giants' cap for 2020. But there's no rush to spend it if they don't want to because they could carry over the cap room to 2021, when all teams may need to squeeze under a smaller cap.
I think this is false. According to over the cap any money already paid out will still be on the books. He had 6.5 of a signing bonus and 3 mil of a roster bonus. I think that stays on for this year. His base salary of $9.9 will be the savings for this year.
Be prepared for Thomas to have a lot of difficulty if he starts at LT without any OTAs or preseason. I could see them starting Fleming at LT at the beginning of the season, and moving Thomas there at some point during the year.
He gets a $350,000 "stipend" which does not count against the cap. I'm not sure how his bonus money is counted. The contract was basically pushed one year into 2021 and 2022.
He gets a $350,000 "stipend" which does not count against the cap. I'm not sure how his bonus money is counted. The contract was basically pushed one year into 2021 and 2022.
I'm just going by what OTC stated. I posted it on the other thread.
Ugh no thanks
Ur OL for 2020.
I have a feeling you will see...
Thomas - Hernandez - TBD - Zeitler - Gates
Fleming may know the OC's offense but I think Gates wins the work outright. The Center will be coming from another team's cuts which is a dicey-matter to add so late but nevertheless that is better than putting up somebody with no talent.
I keep harping on this but we have 14 padded practices (these are not all full-contact...we probably will only have five or so of those). No preseason.
Experiments are over.
There is no time.
Thanks.
Quote:
He has $3M of his 2020 salary guaranteed. So they will be on the hook for $3M next year when he is released.
Thanks.
Where does it say that? It is a roster bonus not not 3 mil of his base salary. His roster bonus is paid already
Play/don’t play in 2020. It really doesn’t matter. The best thing that can happen is if the Giants play 4-6 games in 2020. That’s it. Just enough games to evaluate what they have, then start planning for 2021.
It couldn’t have been an easy decision.
I hope everything works out well for him and his family.
@rydunleavy
·
44s
Confirmed with cap expert @corryjoel
: #Giants could also use the ~$16M cap savings from Nate Solder to just roll into next year's cap, earmarked for Solder, if they don't want to make a big Jadeveon Clowney or Logan Ryan splash.
spotrac - ( New Window )
I keep harping on this but we have 14 padded practices (these are not all full-contact...we probably will only have five or so of those). No preseason.
Experiments are over.
There is no time.
There is enough time. You should think of Sept as part of that time of still putting things together to see what works.
@rydunleavy
·
44s
Confirmed with cap expert @corryjoel
: #Giants could also use the ~$16M cap savings from Nate Solder to just roll into next year's cap, earmarked for Solder, if they don't want to make a big Jadeveon Clowney or Logan Ryan splash.
SIGNING BONUS = 16mm
Annual salary = 11.5mm
Signing bonus spread over 4 years = 4mm per year
Annual salary + bonus = 15.5mm
2018 = 15.5mm
2019 = 15.5mm
2020 = forfeited
So, 2021 remaining = 62mm less 16mm signing bonus less 11.5mm (2018) less another 11.5mm (2019) less forfeited 11.5mm (2020) = 11.5mm on the hook for 2021, but not guaranteed. Cap hit if cut after 2020 would be 4mm.
This is the right move. We're not one or two players away.
I’m skeptical that they are going to be able to pull this season off. If they do it’s nothing but one big exhibition game. My mind is already focused on the 2021 season.
Quote:
In comment 14940601 Milton said:
Quote:
He has $3M of his 2020 salary guaranteed. So they will be on the hook for $3M next year when he is released.
Thanks.
Where does it say that? It is a roster bonus not not 3 mil of his base salary. His roster bonus is paid already
Look under the guaranteed salary column.... - ( New Window )
SIGNING BONUS = 16mm
Annual salary = 11.5mm
Signing bonus spread over 4 years = 4mm per year
Annual salary + bonus = 15.5mm
2018 = 15.5mm
2019 = 15.5mm
2020 = forfeited
So, 2021 remaining = 62mm less 16mm signing bonus less 11.5mm (2018) less another 11.5mm (2019) less forfeited 11.5mm (2020) = 11.5mm on the hook for 2021, but not guaranteed. Cap hit if cut after 2020 would be 4mm.
If that is the case, Nate Solder place his last game as a Giant more than likely.
Quote:
In comment 14940603 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 14940601 Milton said:
Quote:
He has $3M of his 2020 salary guaranteed. So they will be on the hook for $3M next year when he is released.
Thanks.
Where does it say that? It is a roster bonus not not 3 mil of his base salary. His roster bonus is paid already
Look under the guaranteed salary column.... - ( New Window )
I don't see a guaranteed salary column. What I do see is the prorated column that adds up to $23.5 mil and his 2018 and 2019 salaries that add up to $11.3 mil. When you add up those 2 you get the $34.8 total guaranteed money. I'm not saying you are wrong. I know you are good with this. I just don't see it.
I don't see a guaranteed salary column. What I do see is the prorated column that adds up to $23.5 mil and his 2018 and 2019 salaries that add up to $11.3 mil. When you add up those 2 you get the $34.8 total guaranteed money. I'm not saying you are wrong. I know you are good with this. I just don't see it.
Quote:
I don't see a guaranteed salary column. What I do see is the prorated column that adds up to $23.5 mil and his 2018 and 2019 salaries that add up to $11.3 mil. When you add up those 2 you get the $34.8 total guaranteed money. I'm not saying you are wrong. I know you are good with this. I just don't see it.
It's in between the "workout bonus" column and the "cap number" column.
I don't have that on my phone. The only columns I have are base salary, pro rated, roster bonus. So, if that is there then thank you.
@NFLDraftBites
#Giants Nate Solder Having beaten cancer clearly qualifies for $350K plus accrues a season. Joins growing list of guys choosing to protect their Guaranteed Money from potential Covid shutdown. Health a factor for all parties, but so is money.
Owners getting interest free loans.
That would be 6.5M in dead money for 2021. And then add 3M for the roster bonus he earned this year?
Smart #Giants Nate Solder. Don’t risk your $9.9M. Take $350K, already got a $3M roster bonus plus $100K workout. If season shut down, Solder would lose $618,750 per game. And then get cut next offseason.
Also saves Giants $9.9M in Cash. Pretty valuable given cash flow concerns.
There is a margin of error for sure but even as recently as last year the LW trade is a perfect example of using resources on a lost season without moving the needle.
I'd advocate for the banking the money looking at our roster but if a number of players take a step forward and we add another piece we could make playoff noise conceivably. It's important that our front office shows improvement in understanding what is hopeful vs. reasonably expected.
Along with several other players.
They will will all end up IMO as opting out of a season that will never exist.
Some guys will benefit from a year off to heal, some guys will be a year older and bad investments.
The split squad means Thomas and Peart practice with the other rookies and 1st year guys, right?
That's pretty bad arrangement anyway, why can't the team decide who goes in which split squad?
Can they change their minds about the 80/90 roster option so that Thomas can practice with the vets?
The split squad means Thomas and Peart practice with the other rookies and 1st year guys, right?
That's pretty bad arrangement anyway, why can't the team decide who goes in which split squad?
Can they change their minds about the 80/90 roster option so that Thomas can practice with the vets?
Real practices don't start until everyone comes together. The split squad is just walk throughs.
I really, really wish the Giants had signed Kelvin Beachum to a 1 year deal and let him battle it out with Fleming.
4M per yr for bonus pd 8
Salaries pd 18/19. 11.3
Roster bonus. 3
Signing bonus owed. 8
Restructure owed. 5
Cap purposes owed 13. With those dollars left I think he is done with The Giants and most likely the NFL
Time to put Thomas at LT and not look back.
I say use whatever cap....to a proven NFL Center....or.wait until one shakes loose
-------- Religious rant begins here. --------
However, I find it very disappointing that Nate is one of those highly brain-washed individuals who believe some dude from over 2,000 years ago, who is described using little logic and zero science, who only survives to this day due to verbal and written folklore, is responsible for ANY aspect of Nate's life.
Nate missed a block and Eli/Daniel gets hammered by a 280 lb. natural freak of athleticism.
Nate:"Dear lord and savior Jesus Christ, please ensure on the next play no harm comes to my QB."
The next play: "False start on offense, #76."
Nate: "Oh thank you God, my prayers have been answered; I am forever in your flock, almighty God.
or example, just as you can't "pray away the gay," you also can't "pray away the poor play at LT for the NY Foot ball Giants." I'm calling it; Nat'e career as an NFL LT is over.
I say use whatever cap....to a proven NFL Center....or.wait until one shakes loose
Would have to trade for one. Best free agent center available is Justin Britt but he’s only 9 months from a major ACL tear.
Dave had all this cap space and did not sign a single
Impact player.
The offense will be way better if they can establish the run and play ball control, not asking DJ to carry the load. Can’t do that if you are down 22 because the D can’t stop anyone
Quote:
For the Giants too.
I hope everything works out well for him and his family.
+1.
Same.
Is this your big chance to share that.?
STFU
If Solder believes in God and he feels like this is the right choice for him and his FAMILY, then wish him well.
This news is not a call for your religious views.
but I will make sure I pat you on the back for calling it if and when NS retires.
I could say more, acknowledging the heinous misdeeds of religious zealots throughout history (from the Crusades to 9/11 and, sadly, so much more) and the appearance that many religious beliefs may appear no more substantial than "belief" in the Tooth Fairy, but I'll just leave it at that. If you can acknowledge that someone who is dead nonetheless continues to influence your life, then I hope that, even though you don't share someone else's faith, you'll at least entertain the possibility that they're not entirely delusional.
Thanks.
That would be 6.5M in dead money for 2021. And then add 3M for the roster bonus he earned this year?
Duggan on the Athletic says that the 2020 salary will be moved to 2021. If the Giants cut Soldier after this season then $3.5 million cap will be saved, and the Giants would eat $13 million in dead money.
https://theathletic.com/1961103/2020/07/29/what-nate-solders-opt-out-means-for-the-giants/ - ( New Window )
-------- Religious rant begins here. --------
However, I find it very disappointing that Nate is one of those highly brain-washed individuals who believe some dude from over 2,000 years ago, who is described using little logic and zero science, who only survives to this day due to verbal and written folklore, is responsible for ANY aspect of Nate's life.
Nate missed a block and Eli/Daniel gets hammered by a 280 lb. natural freak of athleticism.
Nate:"Dear lord and savior Jesus Christ, please ensure on the next play no harm comes to my QB."
The next play: "False start on offense, #76."
Nate: "Oh thank you God, my prayers have been answered; I am forever in your flock, almighty God.
or example, just as you can't "pray away the gay," you also can't "pray away the poor play at LT for the NY Foot ball Giants." I'm calling it; Nat'e career as an NFL LT is over.
If you are an atheist, no need to hate on others beliefs. We all have our doubts and/or varying levels of religious standing. Nobody said anything about the "Holy Spirit" improving Nate's play.
-------- Religious rant begins here. --------
However, I find it very disappointing that Nate is one of those highly brain-washed individuals who believe some dude from over 2,000 years ago, who is described using little logic and zero science, who only survives to this day due to verbal and written folklore, is responsible for ANY aspect of Nate's life.
Nate missed a block and Eli/Daniel gets hammered by a 280 lb. natural freak of athleticism.
Nate:"Dear lord and savior Jesus Christ, please ensure on the next play no harm comes to my QB."
The next play: "False start on offense, #76."
Nate: "Oh thank you God, my prayers have been answered; I am forever in your flock, almighty God.
or example, just as you can't "pray away the gay," you also can't "pray away the poor play at LT for the NY Foot ball Giants." I'm calling it; Nat'e career as an NFL LT is over.
Lovely. I will go with a brain-washed individual over somebody lacking one any day of the week.
Baseball is one thing - if MLB wants to go forward with a quasi-exhibition season or whatever 2020 winds up being for them, fine - but NFL is so much more intensive on players, keeping themselves at obscene and unnatural weight and strength levels for an entire NFL season - we've already seen the results of shortened offseason programs over time, the increase in NFL injuries indisputable.
I think it's reckless to go forward in this manner - barely any meaningful training camp, no preseason, they're just going to run with the bulls without enough preparation.
I fear a rash of injuries. Barkley and Jones should sit to protect their futures.
My thoughts exactly although you could add about 5 guys to that list.
I'm not that desperate to be entertained to risk the future of NYG for meaningless football.
I don't see them using the cap relief this season. Maybe a trade as Phil alluded if the cap changes are a wash.
Duggan on the Athletic says that the 2020 salary will be moved to 2021. If the Giants cut Soldier after this season then $3.5 million cap will be saved, and the Giants would eat $13 million in dead money. https://theathletic.com/1961103/2020/07/29/what-nate-solders-opt-out-means-for-the-giants/ - ( New Window )
As mentioned yesterday, Spotrac has updated its Nate Solder page.
They have Solder's dead cap at $6.5M for 2021.
The difference between that number and Duggan's number is two 2020 bonus numbers ($4M signing and $2.5M restructure) staying with 2020 accounting rather than being pushed to 2021.
Over the Cap has not updated Solder's page, but they have spelled out an accounting theory for opt-outs that appears consistent with Spotrac's numbers. You can find that at the outset of robbieballs' thread from yesterday.
spotrac - ( New Window )
I wish, CHP, but retirement won't eliminate the dead cap because Solder has the money and can rightfully keep it.
Mostly +1 ... wisdom comes with age and experience.
Smart #Giants Nate Solder. Don’t risk your $9.9M. Take $350K, already got a $3M roster bonus plus $100K workout. If season shut down, Solder would lose $618,750 per game. And then get cut next offseason.
Also saves Giants $9.9M in Cash. Pretty valuable given cash flow concerns.
If I’m reading this correctly, if the season gets derailed at any point, the players that actually decided to play lose their game checks for whatever games are canceled and never get to make that money up? But if they opt out, their contracts are totally pushed back a year, meaning they lose nothing? If that’s the case, why would ANY player decide to play in this awful season? Something doesn’t sound right about that
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Chad Forbes @NFLDraftBites
Smart #Giants Nate Solder. Don’t risk your $9.9M. Take $350K, already got a $3M roster bonus plus $100K workout. If season shut down, Solder would lose $618,750 per game. And then get cut next offseason.
Also saves Giants $9.9M in Cash. Pretty valuable given cash flow concerns.
If I’m reading this correctly, if the season gets derailed at any point, the players that actually decided to play lose their game checks for whatever games are canceled and never get to make that money up? But if they opt out, their contracts are totally pushed back a year, meaning they lose nothing? If that’s the case, why would ANY player decide to play in this awful season? Something doesn’t sound right about that
There are more variables that go into it. Someone in Nate's situation will benefit from option out. However, lets say Barkley opted out. He is not at high risk so he doesn't get a vested year. That means he will be one year older beforr he hits FA and that could really hurt his long term value on a long term contract.
In Nate's case, since he is a high risk person, even with sitting out his year counts.
So, all these young guys on their first contracts that want to get a larger second contract it makes sense for them to play this year and hope they get the 6 games in or wha5ever they need to have this count as a year.
Markus Golden is another example. Sitting out won't help him get to where he needs to be. He wants to earn a larger contract. He has to be on the field to do that.
If I’m reading this correctly, if the season gets derailed at any point, the players that actually decided to play lose their game checks for whatever games are canceled and never get to make that money up? But if they opt out, their contracts are totally pushed back a year, meaning they lose nothing? If that’s the case, why would ANY player decide to play in this awful season? Something doesn’t sound right about that
Don't blame you for reading it that way but it's not the case for Solder because his remaining salary is not guaranteed.
If the Giants cut him before next season, he never gets the $9.9M salary.
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If I’m reading this correctly, if the season gets derailed at any point, the players that actually decided to play lose their game checks for whatever games are canceled and never get to make that money up? But if they opt out, their contracts are totally pushed back a year, meaning they lose nothing? If that’s the case, why would ANY player decide to play in this awful season? Something doesn’t sound right about that
Don't blame you for reading it that way but it's not the case for Solder because his remaining salary is not guaranteed.
If the Giants cut him before next season, he never gets the $9.9M salary.
Nor roster bonus. I think just his pro-rated signing bonuses count.
If the Giants released Nate before he made his decision the Giants would only save $3.5 mil. They were better off keeping him. You could argue that they could have saved $6.5 before giving him the roster bonus but that is another conversation.
Now, because he opted out the numbers change which almost all the beat writers keep fucking up. Now we get a cap savings of around $10 mil this year. I dont know if his $350,000 amount gets put in there along with a $100,000 workout bonus because of this offseason. But lets just say approximately $10 mil.
Next year his number changes. If he didn't opt out we'd save $14 mil. But since he did opt out, we'll save another 7 mil on next year's cap I believe. So over the two years we are getting a cap savings of $17 mil. I think that is right. He'd be on the books for 9.9 base salary, plus .1 workout bonus plus 6.5 prorated for a total of $16.5. Subtract out the 6.5 prorated amount we have to pay to get to 10. Then subtract out another 3 for guaranteed salary. That is how you get 7 mil next year.
If the Giants released Nate before he made his decision the Giants would only save $3.5 mil. They were better off keeping him. You could argue that they could have saved $6.5 before giving him the roster bonus but that is another conversation.
Now, because he opted out the numbers change which almost all the beat writers keep fucking up. Now we get a cap savings of around $10 mil this year. I dont know if his $350,000 amount gets put in there along with a $100,000 workout bonus because of this offseason. But lets just say approximately $10 mil.
Next year his number changes. If he didn't opt out we'd save $14 mil. But since he did opt out, we'll save another 7 mil on next year's cap I believe. So over the two years we are getting a cap savings of $17 mil. I think that is right. He'd be on the books for 9.9 base salary, plus .1 workout bonus plus 6.5 prorated for a total of $16.5. Subtract out the 6.5 prorated amount we have to pay to get to 10. Then subtract out another 3 for guaranteed salary. That is how you get 7 mil next year.
That makes sense.
Also, with the way the NFL is lately, teams are desperate for OL. It wouldn't hurt us to trade him. Of we traded him we'd save an extra 3 mil on the cap because his new team would pay the 3 mil of his guaranteed salary. I'd imaging a team would be willing to take that chance on him for a late pick. Even if we get a 7th, a trade benefits us way more than a release.
The biggest obstacle would be the money because of the cap next year. But a team can restructure his contract with only 3 mil guaranteed left on his deal so it would be very easy for both sides to want to do that. If traded, he count for 10 mil on the books for his new team. If you push back some of that money and get him under 10 for the year that looks like a good deal for another team.
Is it likely? Maybe not because he wasn't playing well and took a year off. Is it possible? Yeah.
My thought is that $3M in the OTC guarantee column is just a restatement of the 2020 roster bonus and that is why Spotrac shows a 2021 cap cut savings of $10M rather than $7M.
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Then subtract out another 3 for guaranteed salary. That is how you get 7 mil next year.
My thought is that $3M in the OTC guarantee column is just a restatement of the 2020 roster bonus and that is why Spotrac shows a 2021 cap cut savings of $10M rather than $7M.
Could be. I was talking about that with Milton yesterday.
6.5 - prorated bonus
3.0 - roster bonus
0.1 - workout bonus
----------------------
19.5 - amount on the books
If we cut him then:
19.5 - total
-13.0 - rest of the prorated money
-----------------------------------
6.5 - should be his cap hit but it isn't
-3.0 - guaranteed salary
-----------------------------------
3.0 - real cap hit for 2020 if he didn't opt out.
That means his $3 mil guaranteed salary comes from his base salary and hasn't been paid out yet.
@DDuggan21
Wasn't easy getting to the bottom of the cap implications of Solder's opt out (the league is still finalizing a lot of these types of details), but here's my understanding with a handy chart showing what his contract looked like pre-opt out and now:
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and no dead money for 2021. It would, in a sense, be consistent with this decision.
I wish, CHP, but retirement won't eliminate the dead cap because Solder has the money and can rightfully keep it.
6.5 - prorated bonus
3.0 - roster bonus
0.1 - workout bonus
----------------------
19.5 - amount on the books
If we cut him then:
19.5 - total
-13.0 - rest of the prorated money
-----------------------------------
6.5 - should be his cap hit but it isn't
-3.0 - guaranteed salary
-----------------------------------
3.0 - real cap hit for 2020 if he didn't opt out.
That means his $3 mil guaranteed salary comes from his base salary and hasn't been paid out yet.
I'll have to think about it more but my initial reaction is that, if you cut a player after paying him a roster bonus, that could be included in the dead cap, which, added to the prorated bonus, would reduce the cap savings accordingly.
If he actually has guaranteed salary remaining, then Spotrac's numbers are not right.
@DDuggan21
Wasn't easy getting to the bottom of the cap implications of Solder's opt out (the league is still finalizing a lot of these types of details), but here's my understanding with a handy chart showing what his contract looked like pre-opt out and now:
OTC and Dunleavy's cap guru stated that any prorated money stays. Basically money paid stays, money not paid moves.
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In comment 14940970 ColHowPepper said:
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and no dead money for 2021. It would, in a sense, be consistent with this decision.
I wish, CHP, but retirement won't eliminate the dead cap because Solder has the money and can rightfully keep it.
shyster, doesn't that pertain only to guaranteed money (~$3mm some odd) and not his 2020, now 2021, salary?
The $6.5M dead money that he will count for 2021 if Spotrac's numbers are correct, come from the $4M prorated signing bonus and $2.5M prorated restructure bonus.
If Duggan is right that more bonus money is pushed to 2021, that would increase the 2021 dead cap but could still not be retrieved.
Whether Solder has $3M in guaranteed salary pending is not clear, as being discussed. If he does, and Spotrac is wrong, that may pose another issue.
@DDuggan21
Wasn't easy getting to the bottom of the cap implications of Solder's opt out (the league is still finalizing a lot of these types of details), but here's my understanding with a handy chart showing what his contract looked like pre-opt out and now:
The terminology I am reading is they are calling it a 'pause', if the player opts out. So just pushing the contract back a year.
Solder has been dealing with his son's issues since his birth, and they had another child recently too.
I do hope for the best regarding his son.
I read he was going back to Boston on Tuesdays
last year, for his son's chemo treatments.
I could say more, acknowledging the heinous misdeeds of religious zealots throughout history (from the Crusades to 9/11 and, sadly, so much more) and the appearance that many religious beliefs may appear no more substantial than "belief" in the Tooth Fairy, but I'll just leave it at that. If you can acknowledge that someone who is dead nonetheless continues to influence your life, then I hope that, even though you don't share someone else's faith, you'll at least entertain the possibility that they're not entirely delusional.
Thanks.
Your need sir to ridicule a man s faith and conviction, says volumes about you.
May be the case but, as of the moment, we don't have an updated Solder breakdown from OTC that poses a clear conflict with Spotrac.
As you pointed out yesterday, giving Solder that $3M in remaining guaranteed salary would increase his total guaranteed beyond the $34.8M that OTC shows for him on that same detail page.
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I always found that OTC is more accurate than Spotrac.
May be the case but, as of the moment, we don't have an updated Solder breakdown from OTC that poses a clear conflict with Spotrac.
As you pointed out yesterday, giving Solder that $3M in remaining guaranteed salary would increase his total guaranteed beyond the $34.8M that OTC shows for him on that same detail page.
Yep.
18 - 4M bonus
19 - 4M
20 - moved out
21 - 4M
22 - 4M
it is really accounting purposes - his guaranteed money has been paid (16M + 7.5M + 11.3M)
His roster bonus is above an beyond
That’s 8 extra million. So why would he play with all the uncertainty? He could wind up going through training camp and getting zero if the season is canceled. He could catch Covid
Converting 5 million to signing bonus was dumb. It was already clear Solder had slipped and likely would be cut after 2020. He would have been cut after this year if not for the dead money
So they made a dumb move but then caught a break with his opting out because they gain cap flexibility
I’d much rather see AT at LT even if there is a learning curve
That’s 8 extra million. So why would he play with all the uncertainty? He could wind up going through training camp and getting zero if the season is canceled. He could catch Covid
Converting 5 million to signing bonus was dumb. It was already clear Solder had slipped and likely would be cut after 2020. He would have been cut after this year if not for the dead money
So they made a dumb move but then caught a break with his opting out because they gain cap flexibility
I guess it wasn't clear to everyone.
They will certainly cut him next year so the cap savings from this year will lessen his dead money
They just better not be stupid and waste these cap saving on a veteran
This team has no business making in season trades. They are going to suck
18 - 4M bonus
19 - 4M
20 - moved out
21 - 4M
22 - 4M
it is really accounting purposes - his guaranteed money has been paid (16M + 7.5M + 11.3M)
His roster bonus is above an beyond
What do you mean '20 "moved out."
Bonus money is not being tolled like base salary at all. It will be paid, or has been paid already, and still accounts against the cap.
If he's not brought back in 2021, the Giants will only be responsible for ONE YEAR more of bonus money.
Have heard that definitively.