correct. The Giants were not going to cut Solder this year. They already gave him $3 mil as a roster bonus. People focus on the dead money for some reason. No idea why. You have to worry about the dead money when structuring a contract. Once the contract is signed it doesn't matter anymore with decision making. You look at how much cap savings you'll get when releasing a player and if his replacement can be had for that.
If the Giants released Nate before he made his decision the Giants would only save $3.5 mil. They were better off keeping him. You could argue that they could have saved $6.5 before giving him the roster bonus but that is another conversation.
Now, because he opted out the numbers change which almost all the beat writers keep fucking up. Now we get a cap savings of around $10 mil this year. I dont know if his $350,000 amount gets put in there along with a $100,000 workout bonus because of this offseason. But lets just say approximately $10 mil.
Next year his number changes. If he didn't opt out we'd save $14 mil. But since he did opt out, we'll save another 7 mil on next year's cap I believe. So over the two years we are getting a cap savings of $17 mil. I think that is right. He'd be on the books for 9.9 base salary, plus .1 workout bonus plus 6.5 prorated for a total of $16.5. Subtract out the 6.5 prorated amount we have to pay to get to 10. Then subtract out another 3 for guaranteed salary. That is how you get 7 mil next year.
It may not be a guarantee he is released next year. If we are only saving an additional 7 next year we have to see where our OL is. Does Fleming leave? Is Peart ready? Did Thomas play well? There are a lot of questions.
Also, with the way the NFL is lately, teams are desperate for OL. It wouldn't hurt us to trade him. Of we traded him we'd save an extra 3 mil on the cap because his new team would pay the 3 mil of his guaranteed salary. I'd imaging a team would be willing to take that chance on him for a late pick. Even if we get a 7th, a trade benefits us way more than a release.
The biggest obstacle would be the money because of the cap next year. But a team can restructure his contract with only 3 mil guaranteed left on his deal so it would be very easy for both sides to want to do that. If traded, he count for 10 mil on the books for his new team. If you push back some of that money and get him under 10 for the year that looks like a good deal for another team.
Is it likely? Maybe not because he wasn't playing well and took a year off. Is it possible? Yeah.
Then subtract out another 3 for guaranteed salary. That is how you get 7 mil next year.
My thought is that $3M in the OTC guarantee column is just a restatement of the 2020 roster bonus and that is why Spotrac shows a 2021 cap cut savings of $10M rather than $7M.
Then subtract out another 3 for guaranteed salary. That is how you get 7 mil next year.
My thought is that $3M in the OTC guarantee column is just a restatement of the 2020 roster bonus and that is why Spotrac shows a 2021 cap cut savings of $10M rather than $7M.
Could be. I was talking about that with Milton yesterday.
Shyster, I don't believe it is. I just worked the numbers
9.9 - base salary
6.5 - prorated bonus
3.0 - roster bonus
0.1 - workout bonus
----------------------
19.5 - amount on the books
If we cut him then:
19.5 - total
-13.0 - rest of the prorated money
-----------------------------------
6.5 - should be his cap hit but it isn't
-3.0 - guaranteed salary
-----------------------------------
3.0 - real cap hit for 2020 if he didn't opt out.
That means his $3 mil guaranteed salary comes from his base salary and hasn't been paid out yet.
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
Wasn't easy getting to the bottom of the cap implications of Solder's opt out (the league is still finalizing a lot of these types of details), but here's my understanding with a handy chart showing what his contract looked like pre-opt out and now:
Duggan most likely has the cap implications set. The only qualifier is the savings enjoyed this year can rollover to next year. So whether they pay him or cut him and incur the dead money, it can be “paid for” it they don’t spend it this year.
RE: Shyster, I don't believe it is. I just worked the numbers
9.9 - base salary
6.5 - prorated bonus
3.0 - roster bonus
0.1 - workout bonus
----------------------
19.5 - amount on the books
If we cut him then:
19.5 - total
-13.0 - rest of the prorated money
-----------------------------------
6.5 - should be his cap hit but it isn't
-3.0 - guaranteed salary
-----------------------------------
3.0 - real cap hit for 2020 if he didn't opt out.
That means his $3 mil guaranteed salary comes from his base salary and hasn't been paid out yet.
I'll have to think about it more but my initial reaction is that, if you cut a player after paying him a roster bonus, that could be included in the dead cap, which, added to the prorated bonus, would reduce the cap savings accordingly.
If he actually has guaranteed salary remaining, then Spotrac's numbers are not right.
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
Wasn't easy getting to the bottom of the cap implications of Solder's opt out (the league is still finalizing a lot of these types of details), but here's my understanding with a handy chart showing what his contract looked like pre-opt out and now:
OTC and Dunleavy's cap guru stated that any prorated money stays. Basically money paid stays, money not paid moves.
In comment 14940970 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
and no dead money for 2021. It would, in a sense, be consistent with this decision.
I wish, CHP, but retirement won't eliminate the dead cap because Solder has the money and can rightfully keep it.
shyster, doesn't that pertain only to guaranteed money (~$3mm some odd) and not his 2020, now 2021, salary?
The $6.5M dead money that he will count for 2021 if Spotrac's numbers are correct, come from the $4M prorated signing bonus and $2.5M prorated restructure bonus.
If Duggan is right that more bonus money is pushed to 2021, that would increase the 2021 dead cap but could still not be retrieved.
Whether Solder has $3M in guaranteed salary pending is not clear, as being discussed. If he does, and Spotrac is wrong, that may pose another issue.
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
Wasn't easy getting to the bottom of the cap implications of Solder's opt out (the league is still finalizing a lot of these types of details), but here's my understanding with a handy chart showing what his contract looked like pre-opt out and now:
.
The terminology I am reading is they are calling it a 'pause', if the player opts out. So just pushing the contract back a year.
Solder has been dealing with his son's issues since his birth, and they had another child recently too.
I do hope for the best regarding his son.
I read he was going back to Boston on Tuesdays
last year, for his son's chemo treatments.
I admire the sincerity of your good wishes to Nate and his family, and I respect your conviction regarding what you perceive as the folly or fiction of religious faith. As someone who leans more towards Nate's outlook than yours, however, I wonder if there is anyone now dead who in some way influences YOUR life: a parent, a grandparent, the founder of a company, an artist, a musician - heck, Elvis or Kurt Cobain - a writer, a philosopher... If so, then you may want to consider that other people's point of view regarding their religion is not a difference in nature but in degree. To them (and I'll include myself), someone who walked the earth 2000 years ago apparently lived a life and death so important that his influence remains strong -- even immediate -- through the present day. I won't speak for Nate, but I hope you might reconsider the possibility that just as Bach or Hendrix or Mark Twain or Stan Lee "live on" in their music or writing, so too Jesus (or Muhammed or Buddha) live on in their words and deeds, and thus retain the power to change the minds and hearts of those who honor them.
I could say more, acknowledging the heinous misdeeds of religious zealots throughout history (from the Crusades to 9/11 and, sadly, so much more) and the appearance that many religious beliefs may appear no more substantial than "belief" in the Tooth Fairy, but I'll just leave it at that. If you can acknowledge that someone who is dead nonetheless continues to influence your life, then I hope that, even though you don't share someone else's faith, you'll at least entertain the possibility that they're not entirely delusional.
Thanks.
Your need sir to ridicule a man s faith and conviction, says volumes about you.
I always found that OTC is more accurate than Spotrac.
May be the case but, as of the moment, we don't have an updated Solder breakdown from OTC that poses a clear conflict with Spotrac.
As you pointed out yesterday, giving Solder that $3M in remaining guaranteed salary would increase his total guaranteed beyond the $34.8M that OTC shows for him on that same detail page.
I always found that OTC is more accurate than Spotrac.
May be the case but, as of the moment, we don't have an updated Solder breakdown from OTC that poses a clear conflict with Spotrac.
As you pointed out yesterday, giving Solder that $3M in remaining guaranteed salary would increase his total guaranteed beyond the $34.8M that OTC shows for him on that same detail page.
i was initially wrong. His signing bonus was 16M for a 4 year deal. The rest of his guaranteed money was 18.4 which included 18 & 19 salary. Part of his salary was converted to bonus -7.5M. Salary paid in 18 & 19 was 11.3M
18 - 4M bonus
19 - 4M
20 - moved out
21 - 4M
22 - 4M
it is really accounting purposes - his guaranteed money has been paid (16M + 7.5M + 11.3M)
His roster bonus is above an beyond
Very little chance Solder ever plays for Giants again
DG converted 5 million of 2020-1 salary to a signing bonus to get under cap. Solder already received his 3 million roster bonus 2020
That’s 8 extra million. So why would he play with all the uncertainty? He could wind up going through training camp and getting zero if the season is canceled. He could catch Covid
Converting 5 million to signing bonus was dumb. It was already clear Solder had slipped and likely would be cut after 2020. He would have been cut after this year if not for the dead money
So they made a dumb move but then caught a break with his opting out because they gain cap flexibility
DG converted 5 million of 2020-1 salary to a signing bonus to get under cap. Solder already received his 3 million roster bonus 2020
That’s 8 extra million. So why would he play with all the uncertainty? He could wind up going through training camp and getting zero if the season is canceled. He could catch Covid
Converting 5 million to signing bonus was dumb. It was already clear Solder had slipped and likely would be cut after 2020. He would have been cut after this year if not for the dead money
So they made a dumb move but then caught a break with his opting out because they gain cap flexibility
He’s crap as a player. They already have Fleming as a stop gap. Maybe peart gets some real reps this year. And they now are better positioned moving forward w the cap
They will certainly cut him next year so the cap savings from this year will lessen his dead money
They just better not be stupid and waste these cap saving on a veteran
Play all your rookies, develop Jones and see where your O line and D is at. No one is going to take 2020 seriously considered the lack of preseason and important players opting out. Look at the entire year as preseason for 2021.
i was initially wrong. His signing bonus was 16M for a 4 year deal. The rest of his guaranteed money was 18.4 which included 18 & 19 salary. Part of his salary was converted to bonus -7.5M. Salary paid in 18 & 19 was 11.3M
18 - 4M bonus
19 - 4M
20 - moved out
21 - 4M
22 - 4M
it is really accounting purposes - his guaranteed money has been paid (16M + 7.5M + 11.3M)
His roster bonus is above an beyond
What do you mean '20 "moved out."
Bonus money is not being tolled like base salary at all. It will be paid, or has been paid already, and still accounts against the cap.
If he's not brought back in 2021, the Giants will only be responsible for ONE YEAR more of bonus money.
If the Giants released Nate before he made his decision the Giants would only save $3.5 mil. They were better off keeping him. You could argue that they could have saved $6.5 before giving him the roster bonus but that is another conversation.
Now, because he opted out the numbers change which almost all the beat writers keep fucking up. Now we get a cap savings of around $10 mil this year. I dont know if his $350,000 amount gets put in there along with a $100,000 workout bonus because of this offseason. But lets just say approximately $10 mil.
Next year his number changes. If he didn't opt out we'd save $14 mil. But since he did opt out, we'll save another 7 mil on next year's cap I believe. So over the two years we are getting a cap savings of $17 mil. I think that is right. He'd be on the books for 9.9 base salary, plus .1 workout bonus plus 6.5 prorated for a total of $16.5. Subtract out the 6.5 prorated amount we have to pay to get to 10. Then subtract out another 3 for guaranteed salary. That is how you get 7 mil next year.
That makes sense.
Also, with the way the NFL is lately, teams are desperate for OL. It wouldn't hurt us to trade him. Of we traded him we'd save an extra 3 mil on the cap because his new team would pay the 3 mil of his guaranteed salary. I'd imaging a team would be willing to take that chance on him for a late pick. Even if we get a 7th, a trade benefits us way more than a release.
The biggest obstacle would be the money because of the cap next year. But a team can restructure his contract with only 3 mil guaranteed left on his deal so it would be very easy for both sides to want to do that. If traded, he count for 10 mil on the books for his new team. If you push back some of that money and get him under 10 for the year that looks like a good deal for another team.
Is it likely? Maybe not because he wasn't playing well and took a year off. Is it possible? Yeah.
My thought is that $3M in the OTC guarantee column is just a restatement of the 2020 roster bonus and that is why Spotrac shows a 2021 cap cut savings of $10M rather than $7M.
Quote:
Then subtract out another 3 for guaranteed salary. That is how you get 7 mil next year.
My thought is that $3M in the OTC guarantee column is just a restatement of the 2020 roster bonus and that is why Spotrac shows a 2021 cap cut savings of $10M rather than $7M.
Could be. I was talking about that with Milton yesterday.
6.5 - prorated bonus
3.0 - roster bonus
0.1 - workout bonus
----------------------
19.5 - amount on the books
If we cut him then:
19.5 - total
-13.0 - rest of the prorated money
-----------------------------------
6.5 - should be his cap hit but it isn't
-3.0 - guaranteed salary
-----------------------------------
3.0 - real cap hit for 2020 if he didn't opt out.
That means his $3 mil guaranteed salary comes from his base salary and hasn't been paid out yet.
@DDuggan21
Wasn't easy getting to the bottom of the cap implications of Solder's opt out (the league is still finalizing a lot of these types of details), but here's my understanding with a handy chart showing what his contract looked like pre-opt out and now:
Quote:
and no dead money for 2021. It would, in a sense, be consistent with this decision.
I wish, CHP, but retirement won't eliminate the dead cap because Solder has the money and can rightfully keep it.
6.5 - prorated bonus
3.0 - roster bonus
0.1 - workout bonus
----------------------
19.5 - amount on the books
If we cut him then:
19.5 - total
-13.0 - rest of the prorated money
-----------------------------------
6.5 - should be his cap hit but it isn't
-3.0 - guaranteed salary
-----------------------------------
3.0 - real cap hit for 2020 if he didn't opt out.
That means his $3 mil guaranteed salary comes from his base salary and hasn't been paid out yet.
I'll have to think about it more but my initial reaction is that, if you cut a player after paying him a roster bonus, that could be included in the dead cap, which, added to the prorated bonus, would reduce the cap savings accordingly.
If he actually has guaranteed salary remaining, then Spotrac's numbers are not right.
@DDuggan21
Wasn't easy getting to the bottom of the cap implications of Solder's opt out (the league is still finalizing a lot of these types of details), but here's my understanding with a handy chart showing what his contract looked like pre-opt out and now:
OTC and Dunleavy's cap guru stated that any prorated money stays. Basically money paid stays, money not paid moves.
Quote:
In comment 14940970 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
and no dead money for 2021. It would, in a sense, be consistent with this decision.
I wish, CHP, but retirement won't eliminate the dead cap because Solder has the money and can rightfully keep it.
shyster, doesn't that pertain only to guaranteed money (~$3mm some odd) and not his 2020, now 2021, salary?
The $6.5M dead money that he will count for 2021 if Spotrac's numbers are correct, come from the $4M prorated signing bonus and $2.5M prorated restructure bonus.
If Duggan is right that more bonus money is pushed to 2021, that would increase the 2021 dead cap but could still not be retrieved.
Whether Solder has $3M in guaranteed salary pending is not clear, as being discussed. If he does, and Spotrac is wrong, that may pose another issue.
@DDuggan21
Wasn't easy getting to the bottom of the cap implications of Solder's opt out (the league is still finalizing a lot of these types of details), but here's my understanding with a handy chart showing what his contract looked like pre-opt out and now:
The terminology I am reading is they are calling it a 'pause', if the player opts out. So just pushing the contract back a year.
Solder has been dealing with his son's issues since his birth, and they had another child recently too.
I do hope for the best regarding his son.
I read he was going back to Boston on Tuesdays
last year, for his son's chemo treatments.
I could say more, acknowledging the heinous misdeeds of religious zealots throughout history (from the Crusades to 9/11 and, sadly, so much more) and the appearance that many religious beliefs may appear no more substantial than "belief" in the Tooth Fairy, but I'll just leave it at that. If you can acknowledge that someone who is dead nonetheless continues to influence your life, then I hope that, even though you don't share someone else's faith, you'll at least entertain the possibility that they're not entirely delusional.
Thanks.
Your need sir to ridicule a man s faith and conviction, says volumes about you.
May be the case but, as of the moment, we don't have an updated Solder breakdown from OTC that poses a clear conflict with Spotrac.
As you pointed out yesterday, giving Solder that $3M in remaining guaranteed salary would increase his total guaranteed beyond the $34.8M that OTC shows for him on that same detail page.
Quote:
I always found that OTC is more accurate than Spotrac.
May be the case but, as of the moment, we don't have an updated Solder breakdown from OTC that poses a clear conflict with Spotrac.
As you pointed out yesterday, giving Solder that $3M in remaining guaranteed salary would increase his total guaranteed beyond the $34.8M that OTC shows for him on that same detail page.
Yep.
18 - 4M bonus
19 - 4M
20 - moved out
21 - 4M
22 - 4M
it is really accounting purposes - his guaranteed money has been paid (16M + 7.5M + 11.3M)
His roster bonus is above an beyond
That’s 8 extra million. So why would he play with all the uncertainty? He could wind up going through training camp and getting zero if the season is canceled. He could catch Covid
Converting 5 million to signing bonus was dumb. It was already clear Solder had slipped and likely would be cut after 2020. He would have been cut after this year if not for the dead money
So they made a dumb move but then caught a break with his opting out because they gain cap flexibility
I’d much rather see AT at LT even if there is a learning curve
That’s 8 extra million. So why would he play with all the uncertainty? He could wind up going through training camp and getting zero if the season is canceled. He could catch Covid
Converting 5 million to signing bonus was dumb. It was already clear Solder had slipped and likely would be cut after 2020. He would have been cut after this year if not for the dead money
So they made a dumb move but then caught a break with his opting out because they gain cap flexibility
I guess it wasn't clear to everyone.
They will certainly cut him next year so the cap savings from this year will lessen his dead money
They just better not be stupid and waste these cap saving on a veteran
This team has no business making in season trades. They are going to suck
18 - 4M bonus
19 - 4M
20 - moved out
21 - 4M
22 - 4M
it is really accounting purposes - his guaranteed money has been paid (16M + 7.5M + 11.3M)
His roster bonus is above an beyond
What do you mean '20 "moved out."
Bonus money is not being tolled like base salary at all. It will be paid, or has been paid already, and still accounts against the cap.
If he's not brought back in 2021, the Giants will only be responsible for ONE YEAR more of bonus money.
Have heard that definitively.