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Should the NYG consider a 1 year deal for Logan Ryan now?

WinterIsComing : 7/29/2020 4:22 pm
With the Solder opt-out, should the Giants consider a 1 year deal for Logan Ryan?

Given the uncertainty with everything going on with DeAndre Baker it could be a savvy move for Dave G. Also, in theory, if not resigned after this year it could lead to another comp pick for us in 2021.
the  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/29/2020 4:23 pm : link
Giants will probably need Solder's cap "savings" this year to pay for his salary cap hit next year.
I like Logan Ryan and hoped they would sign him  
rasbutant : 7/29/2020 4:30 pm : link
But I don't want them spending Solders money on anyone.


It reminds me of when teams restructure a players contract and everyone gets excited that we have more cap space. But all it did was push the money down the road hurting the cap in future years.

More than any year this year is not the year to mortgage the future on.
It strikes me as though  
Pego61 : 7/29/2020 4:32 pm : link
any decent player who is willing to take a 1 year deal should be on the table. But I certainly wouldn't commit any money beyond 2020.
Is there a 4-week deal, because that’s what we are looking at?  
Ivan15 : 7/29/2020 4:35 pm : link
.
He will likely cost $10M  
ArlingtonMike : 7/29/2020 4:41 pm : link
And was primarily a slot guy last year. He may take less but his stance has been no less than 10/yr. It seems high for a slot DB when we have a rookie who needs playing time and we would need to cobble money to make it work.

However, he is probably the second best player on the market. If he’s willing to make a deal...but I doubt it

Ryan is a legit starting CB  
Torrag : 7/29/2020 4:41 pm : link
He was on the FA watch list of many Giants fans. Given the Baker situation IF we have the cap room to interest him we should look into it.


RE: the  
90.Cal : 7/29/2020 4:59 pm : link
In comment 14940599 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Giants will probably need Solder's cap "savings" this year to pay for his salary cap hit next year.


With a 1 year deal... wouldn't we be able to accomplish this?
We have candidates for Slot CB already  
LBH15 : 7/29/2020 5:01 pm : link
Need an outside guy because Beal feels like a guy that will be a problem.

Ryan is a good player though.
Eric  
George from PA : 7/29/2020 5:34 pm : link
Solder big hurdle to being cut this year was signing bonus....which is still charged....nextbyear, Solder will more then likely still be cut...which should only cost 4 mil....and save 5 mil.

Solder played his last game with the Giants
I would definitely look into signing  
prdave73 : 7/29/2020 5:45 pm : link
Logan Ryan.. legit corner who could make this Giants secondary very scary.
They are not going anywhere  
section125 : 7/29/2020 5:55 pm : link
this year. So a one year deal for $10 mill is pointless. They will need Solder's savings to pay for him next year. The CAP is going to be demolished
No, young DBs need to play  
kdog77 : 7/29/2020 6:05 pm : link
Giants are not 1 or 2 players away on D. Spending $10M on any veteran for 1 year deal is a waste of cap space.
I wouldn't spend big $$ on any more free agents this year  
David in Belmont : 7/29/2020 6:57 pm : link
when you don't know how quickly the season is going to end. Play the kids and save money for next year.
This season is probably a waste, if it is even held  
D HOS : 7/29/2020 7:18 pm : link
I don't think they should spend any cap money "saved" by opt-outs. Just roll with who you have at this point and get through the season as best you can.
Unrelated but  
Sonic Youth : 7/29/2020 7:41 pm : link
Logan Ryan lived next to me during my last year at Rutgers. Quality human being, really nice guy.
RE: No, young DBs need to play  
Sonic Youth : 7/29/2020 7:42 pm : link
In comment 14940679 kdog77 said:
Quote:
Giants are not 1 or 2 players away on D. Spending $10M on any veteran for 1 year deal is a waste of cap space.
You sort of conflicted yourself in one sentence, how is it a waste of cap space if we aren't close and it comes off the books the year after? I get wanting young guys to play, but someone will get hurt so people will be called upon to step up, veteran leadership helps younger players, and it's not some crazy long term contract.
Sonic Youth, love the band but how did I contradict myself?  
kdog77 : 7/29/2020 10:00 pm : link
Barring injury Bradshaw is going to start at one of the CB slots, which leaves 2 open CB snaps per play. If you bring in a vet CB for 1 year at $10M, then he will be expected to play a lot, which means you have maybe 1 extra CB per down (if Offense is in 11 personnel) and 2 CB per obvious passing down. Bringing in Logan for 1 year means that younger players like Beal, Love, Holmes, Haley, and Ballentine are not getting snaps because they are going to be on the field less. The Giants Defense has been near the bottom of the pack, but they have invested heavily in drafting DBs. These young guys need time to develop which means they need more snaps, not less. Regardless of vintage, vets signed to 1 year deals are not usually going to be leaders and/or culture building locker room guys. They are often mercs looking to get the next big contract. My honest opinion is the cap savings are better used as buffer for next year when the cap is definitely going to be lower due to COVID19. Let the young guys learn and bide time with signing the guy that gets Giants to the next level when there is a base line of talent to support that move.
if they think Baker is done for the year I'd go for Logan Ryan  
Eric on Li : 7/29/2020 10:02 pm : link
he's a solid player with a lot of versatility and familiarity in the system.

They should still get some cap $ to carry over and it sounds like Solder is likely still going to be cuttable next year?
no  
mpinmaine : 7/30/2020 12:11 am : link
I think they may bring in a FA OL
Solder's cap saving due to.his opt out  
BlueLou'sBack : 7/30/2020 2:04 pm : link
is only his base salary, about 9-10 million. His prorated signing bonus, roster bonus, workout bonus etc are figured as paid out in this calendar year, and remain as a cap hit this year.

If he is cut between the 2020 and 2021 seasons, something many Giants beats expect, his dead money will be the same as if he had played this season: the remainder of his prorated signing bonus.

I doubt Solder's opt out supplied them with enough money to spend it all on Logan Ryan.
No  
Thegratefulhead : 7/30/2020 2:23 pm : link
This year is toast. Season might not even finish. Save it for real season.
It's a golden opportunity  
JonC : 7/31/2020 11:47 am : link
to kick the cap savings into 2021 when we'll likely need it to deal with a significantly lower cap.

2020 is about playing the young kids, teaching them, and building up the systems. If they win it's a bonus. They need to stay cap lean until things normalize.
Really isn't even a debate on this. Be smart and save  
LBH15 : 7/31/2020 12:13 pm : link
the money for when the roster will need it.

All these 1st round picks that Gettleman has been drafting are all going to want a lot of money soon. And his buddy Leonard Williams is going to want some too.
all depends on their evaluations of the players bc there are benefits  
Eric on Li : 7/31/2020 12:52 pm : link
to signing players now. Let's say that due to Solder's savings they now have the ability to make 1 big signing they didn't have the room for before - whether it's now or in the future. Clowney, Ryan, or Justin Britt as examples can be added now and won't factor into next offseason comp pick calculations and you get them for 1 extra season. Britt and Ryan seem like they wouldn't be all that expensive to sign, both play positions of need, and you could possibly even structure their deals so you can cut them or trade them later this year to minimize any future impact. I assume they just don't have interest in Clowney but who knows.

But it all depends on their evaluations of those players vs. what's anticipated to be available next March. And certainly also factored in against the projected raises/extensions due to players like Barkley and Hernandez.
Not that I think the Secondary is a strength especially if  
LBH15 : 7/31/2020 4:13 pm : link
the Baker thing becomes an outright release, but a lot of resources have been provided to that part of the defense over past two seasons. Would like to see if the new coaches can make something of those resources before adding more (like a Logan Ryan).

If a couple of guys like Holmes, Beal and/or Love show they can be reliable contributors then would prefer the money is banked for another day.
RE: Not that I think the Secondary is a strength especially if  
Eric on Li : 7/31/2020 4:26 pm : link
In comment 14941649 LBH15 said:
Quote:
the Baker thing becomes an outright release, but a lot of resources have been provided to that part of the defense over past two seasons. Would like to see if the new coaches can make something of those resources before adding more (like a Logan Ryan).

If a couple of guys like Holmes, Beal and/or Love show they can be reliable contributors then would prefer the money is banked for another day.


The thing about Ryan is that his versatility, experience in 2 versions of the NE system, and all around good reputation as a leader would virtually guarantee him some value - sort of like Deon Grant.

Everyone wants to peg Holmes as a slot guy and I totally get it because he has that skill set, but the fact remains he has mostly played outside so it's going to be an adjustment. And if Baker is gone it's certainly possible he ends up needing to play outside.

Love could be the starter in the slot. Or deep safety. Or a backup.
Same for McKinney.
Baker who knows.
Ballentine/Beal could push Haley down the depth chart or end up cuts themselves.

But in every outcome short of all those players showing they are capable of starting and staying healthy, there's room for Ryan. And even in the scenario where they all play well, what are the odds any of them can come close to matching the kind of production Ryan put up last year if he's doing it again (8 turnovers + 4.5 sacks on a very good defense)? I know his QB rating against regressed a little bit last year as well and teams threw at him a lot, but his ball production and big play production still seems intact.
Not concerned about whether there is room as the critical factor.  
LBH15 : 7/31/2020 7:03 pm : link
Would like to see if depth chart can do the job and have somebody(s) grow up and become a Ryan given the required coaching attention and snaps.

Ryan just relegates the younger resources that were invested in to the bench. What’s the value of that for a team not likely a consistent winner yet.

Team still needs a handful of areas to invest but, imv, better to let this coaching staff sort that out in their own way versus continuing to shell out free agent dollars.

...  
christian : 7/31/2020 7:14 pm : link
A cheap vet that knows the system and can step in if the younger players can’t break into the line up is fine. Anything that costs real money, no way.

Gettleman already borrowed against Solder’s ridiculous contract once. The Giants are getting a reprieve, nothing more on the money. No reason to do something silly.
I assume Ryan or Britt would cost around $4m-5m (basically Remmers $)  
Eric on Li : 7/31/2020 7:32 pm : link
I'd roll the dice on either if they were willing to sign for that but probably not both because I'd want at least half the savings kicked to next year.

I'm really not worried about getting young players reps at any position on this defense. If they are anywhere close to to being net positive impact players there will be playing time. Put another way I'm a lot less worried about that scenario than seeing a weak link like Grant Haley stick and get picked on every key 3rd down. That can bring down an entire unit just like DRC's injury vs. GB in the 2017 WC.

Along similar lines a center can either help pull a line together or be the weakest link. Britt would add some veteran stability which is now that much more necessary with Thomas likely at LT and a less talented vet at RT (or another young player).

The secondary and OL have been the weakest units on this team since 2016. There's a lot more young talent in each room now and I'd rather those young guys develop as part of a competent unit than a continued problem area.
No need for a 1 year deal on any player.  
KWALL2 : 7/31/2020 9:11 pm : link
Lets start preparing for the 2021 season.
RE: No need for a 1 year deal on any player.  
Big Blue '56 : 8/1/2020 6:57 am : link
In comment 14941744 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
Lets start preparing for the 2021 season.


Bingo!
Eric on Li - not getting young players sufficient reps  
LBH15 : 8/1/2020 7:33 am : link
is just another way of wasting money. If this team is only drafting for reserves outside of first round picks and signing free agents as starters, then its a bad model to follow.
I'm always amazed at how fans yearn for a vet name  
aimrocky : 8/1/2020 7:53 am : link
rather than their own youth. The Giants spent a ton of draft capital on the CB position. If Baker doesn't play, I'm very excited to see what Beal, Ballentine and hopefully Love have to offer on the outside. I think Love will end up being very good out there. He was a stud at ND and had a very nice year when given playing time.

I'm also very intrigued with Chris Williamson.
if the young guys are good they will play with or without Ryan here  
Eric on Li : 8/1/2020 10:43 am : link
that's a strawman. 10 or 11 DB's generally make a 53 man roster and active roster on game day. In the NE system last year as many as 8 usually saw the field on defense in a given game with 5 or 6 playing as many as 50% of the game. Browsing Miami snap counts Graham typically had 6 or 7 different DBs playing 50% or more of the game last year - with as many as 5 of them being considered safeties who each played at least 1/3 of the reps. Montre Hartage (who we claimed) and Ryan Lewis (who we just tried to claim) each being 2 such DB's who were both acquired in season along with several others since Miami had a ton of injuries, which would imply that Graham understands how quickly you can cycle through depth.

If Baker remains on exempt list we are entering the season with just 3 players who showed they were capable of playing that much last season (Bradberry, Peppers, Love).

There are 2 promising rookies whom we all want to push for starting spots right away (McKinney, Holmes).

Beal, Ballentine, Williamson are all certainly going to compete for depth spots, play a lot on special teams, and possibly fill those remaining slots to play near half the game - but expecting all 3 to be capable of doing so is a lot to ask and even if all 3 did, it's still 1 "safety" short of the deployment Graham used a lot last year which someone like Ryan would have the versatility to fill.

Net all that out and even before any injuries hit the players Ryan would be most likely to keep on the bench would be the Hartage/Haley/Askew's unless they outplay the 3 young draft picks or injuries hit.

Saving the cap room for next year is of course valid as is making a sober assessment of whatever his worth is at age 29. The big play production last year was top flight but that doesn't reveal how he played on 99% of all the other snaps. With at least 4 non-Peppers/Bradberry spots available for our 1st/2nd year players to win substantial playing time I am not worried about him blocking anybody. I'd rather set the bar for the level of play and competition in the group higher - if Ryan is still good enough to do that.
Miami Snap Counts 2019 - ( New Window )
RE: RE: the  
Milton : 8/1/2020 10:55 am : link
In comment 14940631 90.Cal said:
Quote:
In comment 14940599 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


Giants will probably need Solder's cap "savings" this year to pay for his salary cap hit next year.



With a 1 year deal... wouldn't we be able to accomplish this?
Any cap room left over at the end of the 2020 league year will roll into 2021, so it's the savings from this year's cap that can/will be used to counter the dead cap hit incurred next year when he is likely released. I think that's Eric's point.
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