OL Nick Gates signs a somewhat significant extension

the downside of this, you will have a problem with almost all contracts. And for some reason, you keep trying to tie having dead money in past years to this move, where it is a very reasonable contract.

I'm not really sure I understand the question about who else is getting contracts like this. I mean, you can look at Keith Smith a FB for the Falcons. Matthew Slater, a career ST'er for the Pats, Zach Wood, a LS for the Saints or the contracts for 14 other reserve players that SPORTRAC is showing happened.

as it stands right now - he's the swing OT who can also play guard?

From my view:

- the upside scenario is he performs at or above league average at center,(or guard or tackle, that would awesome) reaches the incentives and earns ~11M over the next 3 years

- the neutral scenario is he doesn’t play league average or above starter and is relegated to backup “something” and earns ~5-7M the next 2 or 3 years

- downside scenarios, he is cut after next year, or reaches the incentives to be paid the full amount, but isn’t all that good — for instance if the incentives are around starts or snaps

Food for thought Halopio started 15 games and 95% of snaps. If those are the parameters to up the cost, and he plays as bad that would suck.

In comment 14943994 NoGainDayne said:

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to act like we shouldn't be concerned around accumulating dead money when we've lead the league over the last 3 years. Har har har Kevin Abrams joke. He's been here as the cap guy for every one of those contracts. Risk should be managed at all sizes of contracts. Is the supposition as long as a signing bonus is $1.5M it really doesn't matter who you give it to? Hey, just cut them if they don't pan out right?

Kevin Abrams made the FA decisions in 2016 or the decisions to resign + trade JPP/Beckham? Pretty sure they led the league in dead money because the of $200m guaranteed the respective GMs gave those guys, not because Abrams did a poor job structuring the contracts and certainly not because they gave a some back roster players like Keenan Robinson or Will Johnson less than 1% of the guaranteed money they gave those guys.

Being an aficionado on dead money you probably already know this but it surprised me just now to see that at the moment the NYG are actually about $4m better than the league average. Somehow I missed all the positive posts on this trend from the dead money enthusiast sub-community. So they could cut Nick Gates twice tomorrow and eat the entire dead cap hit twice while still being below the league average because it's that inconsequential an amount of money.

In comment 14944015 bc4life said:

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as it stands right now - he's the swing OT who can also play guard?

I think he's probably the top contender at either RT or C - whichever he's better at and/or the 2nd option is worse at. At C that could be Pulley or Lemiux, at RT it could be either Flemming or Peart.

C is probably the best position for his skill set but also the bigger unknown since he's never played there and never snapped.

much easier to just throw out the pithy line that we led the league in dead money the past two years:

Quote:

Being an aficionado on dead money you probably already know this but it surprised me just now to see that at the moment the NYG are actually about $4m better than the league average. Somehow I missed all the positive posts on this trend from the dead money enthusiast sub-community.

recognizing improvement takes away a key narrative they want to keep ramrodded down on the board.

caliber OL. Stop acting like this handcuffs the team. It’s a savvy move because the risk is so low, doesn’t matter which team handed out the contract.

In comment 14944082 Eric on Li said:

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In comment 14944015 bc4life said: Quote: as it stands right now - he's the swing OT who can also play guard? I think he's probably the top contender at either RT or C - whichever he's better at and/or the 2nd option is worse at. At C that could be Pulley or Lemiux, at RT it could be either Flemming or Peart. C is probably the best position for his skill set but also the bigger unknown since he's never played there and never snapped.

Center is his best position and yet he has never played there? Ever.

I think we need to take DG’s comments with a grain of salt, particularly since he hasn’t seemed to be able to find this team an adequate Center as of yet. It could be a pipe dream for all we know.

deal for the player. Let's for a second put ourselves in Nick Gates' shoes - pretend we believe in ourselves and feel good about this situation competing for 2 open starting spots. Which would you rather:

'20 - play this year on your base
'21 - get tendered at either $2.1m or $3.2m in March or hit UFA ($2m tender = de facto FA, if $3m you're a UFA in '22)
'22 - UFA

'20 - play this year on your base and get $1.5m check
'21 - make between $2-4m next year depending on incentives or get cut
'22 - make between $2-4m the year depending on incentives or get cut

This is one that will take more detailed analysis once the full contract is available but I suspect the salaries are close to similar in either scenario and both would be non-guaranteed.

So I think this decision basically boils down to a choice between $1.5m check today or reaching UFA 1 or 2 years earlier. That $1.5m just sees really light considering even Spencer Pulley got more guaranteed money a few years ago and as an observer I'd easily prefer Gates > Pulley. But obviously who knows what Gates' personal situation is and how to factor in the uncertainty of C19.

In comment 14944101 LBH15 said:

Quote:

In comment 14944082 Eric on Li said: I think he's probably the top contender at either RT or C - whichever he's better at and/or the 2nd option is worse at. At C that could be Pulley or Lemiux, at RT it could be either Flemming or Peart. C is probably the best position for his skill set but also the bigger unknown since he's never played there and never snapped. Center is his best position and yet he has never played there? Ever. I think we need to take DG’s comments with a grain of salt, particularly since he hasn’t seemed to be able to find this team an adequate Center as of yet. It could be a pipe dream for all we know.

And skillset does not always equal best position. But his strength seems to be his mobility and movement which would probably translate better on the interior than at T at his size, but who knows. Maybe he's Bakhtiari II.

In comment 14944090 UConn4523 said:

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caliber OL. Stop acting like this handcuffs the team. It’s a savvy move because the risk is so low, doesn’t matter which team handed out the contract.

This.

We can move on now

In comment 14944108 Eric on Li said:

Quote:

In comment 14944101 LBH15 said: Quote: In comment 14944082 Eric on Li said: I think he's probably the top contender at either RT or C - whichever he's better at and/or the 2nd option is worse at. At C that could be Pulley or Lemiux, at RT it could be either Flemming or Peart. C is probably the best position for his skill set but also the bigger unknown since he's never played there and never snapped. Center is his best position and yet he has never played there? Ever. I think we need to take DG’s comments with a grain of salt, particularly since he hasn’t seemed to be able to find this team an adequate Center as of yet. It could be a pipe dream for all we know. And skillset does not always equal best position. But his strength seems to be his mobility and movement which would probably translate better on the interior than at T at his size, but who knows. Maybe he's Bakhtiari II.

Eric I read the whole sentence and you went several bridges too far. His skills have been presented in exactly 3 whole starts and all at different positions than the one you said he probably is best skilled at. Nowhere near enough to make such an assessment for a coach no less a fan poster.

Look, I am sure we all we would like Gates to be a contributor and maybe even a solid guy somewhere on the line. Obviously DG sees something in him hence the nice extension. But seems like we should wait to see if hikes the football over Daniel Jones head too much before we call Center his best position.

In comment 14943985 NoGainDayne said:

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vs. a rookie deal for a 4th pick. Surely you understand the difference?

Yeah, the difference is that with an extension you have much greater knowledge of the individual and his ability against NFL level competition. Much less risk in extending a player on your roster than committing $32M to a prospect that's never played a down of football.

In comment 14944146 LBH15 said:

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Eric I read the whole sentence and you went several bridges too far. His skills have been presented in exactly 3 whole starts and all at different positions than the one you said he probably is best skilled at. Nowhere near enough to make such an assessment for a coach no less a fan poster. Look, I am sure we all we would like Gates to be a contributor and maybe even a solid guy somewhere on the line. Obviously DG sees something in him hence the nice extension. But seems like we should wait to see if hikes the football over Daniel Jones head too much before we call Center his best position.

A bridge too far by saying his skillset may be best at center vs. RT while clearly pointing out the obvious unknown that he has never in fact played center? Someone call the hyperbole police.

Surely you realize just about every scouting report entering the NFL projected him moving inside from tackle right to the point where he was labeled a guard at the combine? I wasn't making a suggestion out of thin air based on last year - just restating the conventional wisdom that generally undersized UDFA's with short arms project as interior lineman rather than tackles, and as it happens we only have 1 open interior position right now at C. Whether he can snap or handle the additional mental aspects of the center position is an unknown - as was clearly stated in the same sentence you took issue with.

I will notify the police to stand down. :-)

And really not unusual all for college Tackles to project to Guard in the NFL, but moving to Center is a whole different deal with several distinct skill sets. So best not to just bunch them up all up as interior lineman in this comparison.

Real simply, Gates doesn't have any live snaps at the Center position in his career to even rely upon to make the statement what he is best at. I hope he is a superstar at Tackle, Guard and Center, but at this stage would be satisfied if he can do one of them reasonably well after the coaches develop him moreso and figure out how he can be a contributor.

Oh, and don't call me Shirley.

In comment 14944215 chick310 said:

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I will notify the police to stand down. :-) And really not unusual all for college Tackles to project to Guard in the NFL, but moving to Center is a whole different deal with several distinct skill sets. So best not to just bunch them up all up as interior lineman in this comparison. Real simply, Gates doesn't have any live snaps at the Center position in his career to even rely upon to make the statement what he is best at. I hope he is a superstar at Tackle, Guard and Center, but at this stage would be satisfied if he can do one of them reasonably well after the coaches develop him moreso and figure out how he can be a contributor. Oh, and don't call me Shirley.

what?

In comment 14944193 Eric on Li said:

Quote:

In comment 14944146 LBH15 said: Quote: Eric I read the whole sentence and you went several bridges too far. His skills have been presented in exactly 3 whole starts and all at different positions than the one you said he probably is best skilled at. Nowhere near enough to make such an assessment for a coach no less a fan poster. Look, I am sure we all we would like Gates to be a contributor and maybe even a solid guy somewhere on the line. Obviously DG sees something in him hence the nice extension. But seems like we should wait to see if hikes the football over Daniel Jones head too much before we call Center his best position. A bridge too far by saying his skillset may be best at center vs. RT while clearly pointing out the obvious unknown that he has never in fact played center? Someone call the hyperbole police. Surely you realize just about every scouting report entering the NFL projected him moving inside from tackle right to the point where he was labeled a guard at the combine? I wasn't making a suggestion out of thin air based on last year - just restating the conventional wisdom that generally undersized UDFA's with short arms project as interior lineman rather than tackles, and as it happens we only have 1 open interior position right now at C. Whether he can snap or handle the additional mental aspects of the center position is an unknown - as was clearly stated in the same sentence you took issue with.

Agree with above generally. Mostly concerned about the team trying to push square pegs in round holes versus just getting professional Center in place. Again, I think Gates might be the starting Right Tackle based upon events of the past month.

because it is important to put guys in positions to succeed. A good center will help the guards play better, the guards playing better helps the tackles play better, everyone playing better allows the whole offense to go better. So if there's not a competent center on the roster they need to get one. Starting Pulley should not be an option unless he found some really good PEDs this offseason.

On the flip side however we have seen both Seubert and Boothe each as individuals likely best suited to be guards, kick in to play center effectively. Brandon Linder had a similar physical profile to Gates and he moved to center in the NFL after playing a bunch of different positions at Miami. So we aren't talking about a rare feat like turning a TE into an OT or a WR into a DB. If Gates is good on the mental side I think it's likely he might have the best long term potential at C of any player on the roster currently. I don't think the same is true of him at RT (bc of Peart) though he may be the best option right now and anything is possible.

And regardless of what happens this year, his most ideal long term spot may be RG once Zeitler moves on.

Judge says they will try guys at different places and see what sticks so I guess we will all just have to wait and see what they decide to do. But Gates being perhaps the best option for both of the currently open spots is a big reason why I think this was a really smart contract. If he ends being the solution at either open starting spot it will be a very below market value.

may not be on the roster just yet.

Not an ideal preseason to bring someone into the mix late though...pandemic constraints, limited practices and games, new offense, etc. Not sure if feasible.

In comment 14944254 Eric on Li said:

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If he ends being the solution at either open starting spot it will be a very below market value.

Eric - this is where the details on the contract become quite important. If he earns ~5M/YR in 21/22 as a center -- it's not below market value. It's mid-market value.

If he cracks the lineup as a starting guard or tackle, that's awesome.

As I posted above -- based on current contracts (and a presumably shrinking cap) -- a 5M AAV center would slot depending on the year at 11th or 15th.

If the contract rewards him at the top end by some measure that indicates he play well, again awesome. If the contract rewards for simply playing, not awesome.

Again, as I posted above, a guy like Halopio played 95% of snaps and started 15 games -- I hope simple measures like that aren't the incentives.

#1 - his AAV isn't $5m. The max of the contract is supposedly 3 years ~10m which would be an AAV just north of $3m even with all incentives hit. I suppose the floor would be around $2m AAV if none of the incentives hit.

#2 - even aside from #1, if we were to cherry pick your $5m number instead of AAV, that would slot in as the 19th highest among all centers 1 spot behind Nick Eason and 1 spot ahead of BJ Finney (so below average). The $3m AAV is only a few spots behind that so for ranking purposes it's not all that different. $2m would take him out of the top 32 centers - so the base of the contract is as a backup.

But again, this is all willfully ignorant of the fact that his AAV cost next year was either going to be the tender at $2.1m or $3.2m - and if it was 2.1m tender he would have been a defacto FA (original rd compensation for a UDFA). Whenever the official details get published do you think his cap # pre-incentives will be pretty close to $3.2m which was his likely '21 destiny? Because I do.
AAV for centers - ( New Window )

Nick Gates signed a 2 year, $10,325,000 contract with the New York Giants, including an average annual salary of $5,162,500.

In 2020, Gates will earn a base salary of $675,000, while carrying a cap hit of $676,668.

In comment 14944333 LBH15 said:

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Nick Gates signed a 2 year, $10,325,000 contract with the New York Giants, including an average annual salary of $5,162,500. In 2020, Gates will earn a base salary of $675,000, while carrying a cap hit of $676,668.

They don't have the details yet and are just putting in placeholders.

Eric -- the extension is beyond 2020 (21,22), and those are the years I was clearly addressing (and noted).

Presumably his 2020 compensation is his current ~675K salary + plus a portion (500K) of his new signing bonus. 2020 is a low salary now and before. All good.

Moving forward is the key issue, and where I don't believe "below market" applies, especially if the incentives are easy to earn. If the incentives are commensurate with playing well, all good too!

If he were to be paid ~5M in 2021 he would be the 16th most costly center, and in 2022 would be 12th most costly.

In comment 14944354 christian said:

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Eric -- the extension is beyond 2020 (21,22), and those are the years I was clearly addressing (and noted). Presumably his 2020 compensation is his current ~675K salary + plus a portion (500K) of his new signing bonus. 2020 is a low salary now and before. All good. Moving forward is the key issue, and where I don't believe "below market" applies, especially if the incentives are easy to earn. If the incentives are commensurate with playing well, all good too! If he were to be paid ~5M in 2021 he would be the 16th most costly center, and in 2022 would be 12th most costly.

Given the 1.5 million signing bonus, his cap hits at most would be 4.6 million in 21/22 even with hitting all incentives (assuming they are all LTBE and spread evenly along with salary).

In comment 14944359 YAJ2112 said:

Quote:

In comment 14944354 christian said: Quote: Eric -- the extension is beyond 2020 (21,22), and those are the years I was clearly addressing (and noted). Doh, it would be 4.8 million. Forgot I should have only pulled out 500k not 1 million. Presumably his 2020 compensation is his current ~675K salary + plus a portion (500K) of his new signing bonus. 2020 is a low salary now and before. All good. Moving forward is the key issue, and where I don't believe "below market" applies, especially if the incentives are easy to earn. If the incentives are commensurate with playing well, all good too! If he were to be paid ~5M in 2021 he would be the 16th most costly center, and in 2022 would be 12th most costly. Given the 1.5 million signing bonus, his cap hits at most would be 4.6 million in 21/22 even with hitting all incentives (assuming they are all LTBE and spread evenly along with salary).

Per Ranaan (and many others):

Quote:

The deal is for two additional years and $6.8 million, and can be worth a potential $10.3 million, a source told ESPN. Gates, who has a chance to be a regular starter this season, was scheduled to make $660,000 this year. Instead, he also gets a $1.5 million signing bonus, the source said.

So here goes nothing. Start with:

$10.3m reported maximum
minus $1.5m reported new SB
=$8.8m max salaries w/ all incentives

minus $660k year 1 salary ('20 salary remaining the same per Pat T.)

= $8.14m non-gtd max salary w/ incentives in years 2 + 3 (4.57m max AAV for those 2 years including prorated SB)

Now if we want to speculate on the yet to be confirmed non-gtd base salaries in years 2+3, I'd guess it's:
$6.8m (reported new money in 2 year extension)
- $1.5m SB
= $5.3m ($2.65m AAV for those 2 seasons, which also happens to split the difference of what the original round tender and the 2nd round RFA tender would have been next year if they were the same as this year).

That's all obviously rough based off the limited info we know - but I don't think the exact details need to be confirmed when we know there's only $1.5m guaranteed and the max value is $10.3m over these 3 years (Max AAV $3.43m).

clear why the $5M is being used. Without exaggeration, there is no argument to stand on.

if the 2nd and 3rd years are unbalanced there could be a single year of the deal over $5m but there is no way to stretch an AAV over $5m based on what we've seen reported so far.

The simplest read on the contract is this - 3 years, $7.5m, with $1.5m of that being SB. $2.5m AAV. With about $1m in TBD incentives per year beyond that. Slightly backloaded since they kept year 1 salary the same but how much more beyond that remains to be seen.

even at max incentives, it is still less than $5M. And if he hits that, it is more than likely there is above average to excellent performance.

I mean speculating that the incentives are just for playing time is a whole lot of fun here, but that isn't very realistic. At least some portion (usually a significant portion) of incentives are tied to measures of good play - not just starts.

But again - without trying to speculate that the majority of the incentives MAY be just for playing, the argument falls flat.

See the trend here? The argument falls flat without wild speculation and exaggeration.

In comment 14944374 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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clear why the $5M is being used. Without exaggeration, there is no argument to stand on.

yeah I mean this is 100x more clear cut than the Pulley extension, which looks Dennis Rodman controversial in comparison.

Gates gave them 1 extra year in return for a $1.5m check right now and a potentially lower salary than he'd have gotten next year. Call me crazy but in normal times where there's no uncertainty I don't think any player does that when they are 1 year from FA.

In comment 14944375 Eric on Li said:

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if the 2nd and 3rd years are unbalanced there could be a single year of the deal over $5m but there is no way to stretch an AAV over $5m based on what we've seen reported so far. The simplest read on the contract is this - 3 years, $7.5m, with $1.5m of that being SB. $2.5m AAV. With about $1m in TBD incentives per year beyond that. Slightly backloaded since they kept year 1 salary the same but how much more beyond that remains to be seen.

Got it. And if doesn't hold up this year the team is really only out the $660K salary plus the $1.5M bonus for his services.

glad we tied him up.

for hopefully an up-and-coming backup OL. Are there really more complicated metrics for offensive lineman in contracts?

In comment 14944390 LBH15 said:

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for hopefully an up-and-coming backup OL. Are there really more complicated metrics for offensive lineman in contracts?

Some portion of the incentives will be playing-time based. For offensive linemen, there will be additional incentives that will usually include a number of starts that would mean the team made the playoffs, incentives tied to the team's overall record, and then individual awards. And these incentives don't count against the cap when the deal is signed:

Quote:

Incentives are usually designed to be classified as not likely to be earned (NLTBE), so that they will not count against the salary cap when a deal is signed. Generally, any incentives with higher thresholds than the player or team's statistical performance in the prior season qualify as NLTBE. The most frequent categories for individual achievement are playing time or based on the player's primary function (i.e., receptions or receiving yards for a wide receiver). Coupling an individual achievement with a team statistical performance also makes an incentive NLTBE. If earned, a team will incur a salary cap charge for most incentives after the playoffs end. Incentives are typically paid in February or March following the season in which they are earned.

Joel Bitonio and Andrew Whitworth had incentives based on percentage of snaps played (with a bonus at 85%), incentives for number of starts - with Whitworth having a bonus at 18 starts (needs the playoffs) and both had incentives based on record that kicked in when the team was over .500

In addition, there were incentives for being named Pro Bowl and All-Pro and for not committing penalties.

to be the key measure. All Pro and Pro Bowl for a guy like Gates sounds nice and all but are likely unreachable stretch goals (in this contract period).

Penalties can only be measured if your starting so cuts both ways but workable as a metric.

that would make a lot of sense. Also for context even last year, Gates played a higher % of snaps than I realized. Per PFF his 291 snaps were 27% of the 1068 snaps Will Hernandez played (and I believe he played like 99.9% of all snaps).

So "3 starts" was really just more than 1/4 of the season when you add in partial action.

75-85% would seem to be fair for both sides. If he remains in the swing role he won't come close but if he wins a starting role he will likely hit it. And if he doesn't play well enough to lock down that starting role for multiple seasons he'd return to the swing role and lower comp.

In comment 14944412 LBH15 said:

Quote:

to be the key measure. All Pro and Pro Bowl for a guy like Gates sounds nice and all but are likely unreachable stretch goals (in this contract period). Penalties can only be measured if your starting so cuts both ways but workable as a metric.

Yes agree, should have said # of starts or # of snaps will be the likely key measure.

but reaching anywhere near the full amount will likely mean excellent performance and team success.

Cameron Erving's contract with the Cowboys has incentives:

Quote:

Erving will make $31,250 each time he’s on the active gameday roster — $500,000 in total. Speaking to his incentives, the former Chiefs starter can net $125,000 if he logs 65 percent of offensive snaps and the Cowboys qualify for the playoffs, and an additional $125,000 if he plays 80 percent of snaps and the team reaches the postseason.

So being active for all games will get him $500K, but no matter how much he plays, if the Cowboys don't make the postseason, he doesn't earn an additional $250K

Dan Salomone
@NYGsalomone
·
6m
Coach Joe Judge is on a video conference. He said Nick Gates, who just signed a contract extension, could factor into any of the five starting OL spots. He said the coaches need to do a good job of mapping out how they split his practice reps.

In comment 14944416 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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but reaching anywhere near the full amount will likely mean excellent performance and team success. Cameron Erving's contract with the Cowboys has incentives: Quote: Erving will make $31,250 each time he’s on the active gameday roster — $500,000 in total. Speaking to his incentives, the former Chiefs starter can net $125,000 if he logs 65 percent of offensive snaps and the Cowboys qualify for the playoffs, and an additional $125,000 if he plays 80 percent of snaps and the team reaches the postseason. So being active for all games will get him $500K, but no matter how much he plays, if the Cowboys don't make the postseason, he doesn't earn an additional $250K

Well, lets see if Gates and his agent remembered what the NYG won/loss record has been for the past several years.

Finney from the Seahawks has incentives for roster bonus, starts, if the team makes the playoffs, if he makes the ProBowl, and if he's the 1st or 2nd best OL on the team (I'm sure the criteria of determining that is included in the contract details!)

The roster and start money is 60% of the incentives

In comment 14944424 FatMan in Charlotte said:

Quote:

Finney from the Seahawks has incentives for roster bonus, starts, if the team makes the playoffs, if he makes the ProBowl, and if he's the 1st or 2nd best OL on the team (I'm sure the criteria of determining that is included in the contract details!) The roster and start money is 60% of the incentives

Gates might want to go with that 1st or 2nd best OL incentive. With this line it may be a slam-dunk for him.

In comment 14944359 YAJ2112 said:

Quote:

In comment 14944354 christian said: Quote: Eric -- the extension is beyond 2020 (21,22), and those are the years I was clearly addressing (and noted). Presumably his 2020 compensation is his current ~675K salary + plus a portion (500K) of his new signing bonus. 2020 is a low salary now and before. All good. Moving forward is the key issue, and where I don't believe "below market" applies, especially if the incentives are easy to earn. If the incentives are commensurate with playing well, all good too! If he were to be paid ~5M in 2021 he would be the 16th most costly center, and in 2022 would be 12th most costly. Given the 1.5 million signing bonus, his cap hits at most would be 4.6 million in 21/22 even with hitting all incentives (assuming they are all LTBE and spread evenly along with salary).

Sorry for my Qanon level deception with the rounding there :) -- you are right it is indeed 4.6M at the high end. As of now that would still be good for 16th, and actually 11th highest paid center in 21 and 22 respectively.

My only point in all of this, is if Gates hits the top end of the incentives as a center he's being paid fairly. I hope the incentives are constructed to measure success and I hope he hits them.

..

In comment 14944795 djm said:

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..

Thank Captain Analytics

Quote:

Ian Rapoport @RapSheet The #Bills officially signed veteran G Brian Winters, who gets a 1-year deal worth $3M with $2M guaranteed. Not bad for this economic environment.

good thing they got the Gates deal done before Winters turned the market upside down.

In comment 14944911 Eric on Li said:

Quote:

Quote: Ian Rapoport @RapSheet The #Bills officially signed veteran G Brian Winters, who gets a 1-year deal worth $3M with $2M guaranteed. Not bad for this economic environment. good thing they got the Gates deal done before Winters turned the market upside down.

In comment 14944948 BlueLou'sBack said:

Quote:

In comment 14944911 Eric on Li said: Quote: Quote: Ian Rapoport @RapSheet The #Bills officially signed veteran G Brian Winters, who gets a 1-year deal worth $3M with $2M guaranteed. Not bad for this economic environment. good thing they got the Gates deal done before Winters turned the market upside down.

Beane did learn from Gettleman, so it makes sense he would make a similar move