OL Nick Gates signs a somewhat significant extension

IMO that means that they expect him to push for either the starting center or RT spot.

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In comment 14941943 nygiants16 said:

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I really hope so because Pulley is a below average backup and he is currently expected to be the starting center.

Similar to what they gave Mayo, Fleming, and Toilolo.

these are the kinds of extensions that can really pay off if the player works out - even if simply because they give you a lot more leverage negotiating a more meaningful extension a year or two down the road.

I'd imagine this indicates Gates is likely to be starting at either C or RT this year. He was very impressive last year in a reasonable number of snaps.

Glad they locked him in.

gates has proven nothing. like legit nothing. they don't even know what position he's going play. is it C? can he even play C? is he a backup G? backup T? has he shown enough to replace zeitler? if that even the plan? he hasn't even got on the field with the new coaching staff.

i just don't see the urgency to give him a deal. like what was the rush for this? why not let him play this year and see how he does?

this extension is not pennies. same with mayo. they paid him wayyyyyyy too much money for a backup. mayo is a bottom of the roster, minimum salary guy and he's getting $3M. now they are giving gates money.

i don't get it

the Giants front office and coaching staff after extensive film study think they know more the we do?

Maybe?

Is this what they used with the Solder freed up $?
I think this clearly means Gates is starting C, and Fleming will be RT. Pulley is trash so I’m really hoping it doesn’t mean Gates at RT as Gates didn’t show much that he can start at RT.

In comment 14941950 GiantsFan84 said:

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gates has proven nothing. like legit nothing. they don't even know what position he's going play. is it C? can he even play C? is he a backup G? backup T? has he shown enough to replace zeitler? if that even the plan? he hasn't even got on the field with the new coaching staff. i just don't see the urgency to give him a deal. like what was the rush for this? why not let him play this year and see how he does? this extension is not pennies. same with mayo. they paid him wayyyyyyy too much money for a backup. mayo is a bottom of the roster, minimum salary guy and he's getting $3M. now they are giving gates money. i don't get it

They don’t know what position he’s going to play or you don’t know?

So this puts him under contract for three more years including 2020.

It's not close to starter's money, but he was under contract this year for $675K and they could tender him at a 1st (or 2nd) round value next year for $2M-$3M, so it gives him some financial security and they probably promised to renegotiate down the road if he becomes a starter.

The good news is that it demonstrates that it wasn't just pre-draft lip service when Gettleman was hawking Gates as a potential starter.

In comment 14941947 Eric on Li said:

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these are the kinds of extensions that can really pay off if the player works out - even if simply because they give you a lot more leverage negotiating a more meaningful extension a year or two down the road. I'd imagine this indicates Gates is likely to be starting at either C or RT this year. He was very impressive last year in a reasonable number of snaps.

It's unfortunate that he missed his entire rookie season. Gates impressed at both RT and G but I still believe that he belongs inside. With Solder opting out the RT spot is wide open between Fleming and Gates. Hopefully the Giants will either bring in a better center option such as Justin Britt or swing a trade for one if Gates is the starting RT.

which is good. Whether it is expensive or not depends upon guarantees and structure.

In comment 14941950 GiantsFan84 said:

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gates has proven nothing. like legit nothing. they don't even know what position he's going play. is it C? can he even play C? is he a backup G? backup T? has he shown enough to replace zeitler? if that even the plan? he hasn't even got on the field with the new coaching staff. i just don't see the urgency to give him a deal. like what was the rush for this? why not let him play this year and see how he does? this extension is not pennies. same with mayo. they paid him wayyyyyyy too much money for a backup. mayo is a bottom of the roster, minimum salary guy and he's getting $3M. now they are giving gates money. i don't get it

He's proven nothing? I guess all those practices he participated in must've shown something. I guess we should dismiss the starts he made last year where he played very well at two positions despite missing his entire rookie season. I think the FO and coaching staff is slightly more informed than you but that's just speculation on my part.

Technique and can be a backup along the o-line. Now they need to figure out if he can be a starter somewhere.

In comment 14941950 GiantsFan84 said:

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gates has proven nothing. like legit nothing. they don't even know what position he's going play. is it C? can he even play C? is he a backup G? backup T? has he shown enough to replace zeitler? if that even the plan? he hasn't even got on the field with the new coaching staff. i just don't see the urgency to give him a deal. like what was the rush for this? why not let him play this year and see how he does? this extension is not pennies. same with mayo. they paid him wayyyyyyy too much money for a backup. mayo is a bottom of the roster, minimum salary guy and he's getting $3M. now they are giving gates money. i don't get it

Slightly over 3 mil per year as an extension and it'll be lower when you count the time he has left. Why is this a problem. This is not really starter money. This is 6th man along the OL money and if he does start then his salary bumps up. Makes perfect sense.

He seems to have some potential.

But it seems to me (too) that they could have waited to see a little more from him.

OTOH, if he starts all year and plays decently (at ANY position), he's gonna want stater money. What he's getting in this deal would be a bargain for a starter.

Basically, their betting FOR him to succeed rather than against him.

to be excited about. Andrew Thomas, Matt Peart, Nick Gates, Shane Lemieux, Will Hernandez, and Kyle Murphy.

One of the benefits of Solder opting out, besides the cap savings, is that it opens up a roster spot for Kyle Murphy.

but not for this one. If Gates wins a starting spot this is a great contract for a few years.

remember that the Jets signed mediocre swing tackle George Fant to a 3 year $30 million dollar contract.

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One of the benefits of Solder opting out, besides the cap savings, is that it opens up a roster spot for Kyle Murphy.

That kid plays like a beast. If he can do it at the NFL level (a BIG IF), they'll really have something. He's another guy I'd try at OC.

In comment 14941986 Jay on the Island said:

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remember that the Jets signed mediocre swing tackle George Fant to a 3 year $30 million dollar contract.

Gates is earning around the same per year as Cam Fleming is. It's low-end starter money.

Nick Gates already proved himself last year against the Jets where he was our best graded o lineman by Sy and other experts. He’s better than just a backup and the contract reflects that.

teammates. When an UDFA gets paid they take notice.
work work work pays off

In comment 14941944 Jay on the Island said:

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In comment 14941943 nygiants16 said: Quote: .. I really hope so because Pulley is a below average backup and he is currently expected to be the starting center.

How can he be expected to be the starting Center? He’s got zero experience, other then a few practice snaps and there will be no pre-season for him to work through issues. Secondly, he’s a decent olineman, but seems to not be able to anchor well. Unless he’s gotten stronger and now has the ability to anchor, he’ll be more like Pulley in terms of his strength inside. I see the Giants going with the experienced guy right now. The Giants need to find a Center in the worst way. Maybe Gates gets a shot later on in the year, depending upon circumstances.

betting on him to continuing to develop, after he played well last year. He certainly isn't the most athletically gifted player, but he works hard, and knows his assignments. Fleming is also a FA in 2021, and Peart may not be ready to be the RT at that time. I agree that Gates may not transition to center this year, but it's likely he will eventually. There is also a huge need for OL around the league. Signing him now takes him off the FA market next year. All of this more than justifies a slight overpay.

In comment 14941989 Anakim said:

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In comment 14941986 Jay on the Island said: Quote: remember that the Jets signed mediocre swing tackle George Fant to a 3 year $30 million dollar contract. Gates is earning around the same per year as Cam Fleming is. It's low-end starter money.

Cam Fleming wasn't signed to be a starter. He was signed to be the swing tackle off the bench. As someone else put it a few comments up, this is 6th man money.

he was a 2nd year 6th round pick when he was claimed by the Giants in 2007. He didn't start a game for the team until 2009. When he extended after 09 he'd only started a handful of games. And all the way down the road from 2011-2013 he started 41 games.

Having competent young depth players you can groom in your system to step into when necessary is how you avoid being forced to sign/start guys like Marshall Newhouse or praying next year's undrafted Chad Wheeler/Adam Bisnowaty isn't in completely over their head. And if you get lucky and hit on the next Diehl/Seubert, you have a ton of leverage to extend them reasonably as compared to someone like Hernandez who is likely going to need to get extended at close to market rate.

In comment 14941994 Simms11 said:

Quote:

In comment 14941944 Jay on the Island said: Quote: In comment 14941943 nygiants16 said: Quote: .. I really hope so because Pulley is a below average backup and he is currently expected to be the starting center. How can he be expected to be the starting Center? He’s got zero experience, other then a few practice snaps and there will be no pre-season for him to work through issues. Secondly, he’s a decent olineman, but seems to not be able to anchor well. Unless he’s gotten stronger and now has the ability to anchor, he’ll be more like Pulley in terms of his strength inside. I see the Giants going with the experienced guy right now. The Giants need to find a Center in the worst way. Maybe Gates gets a shot later on in the year, depending upon circumstances.

You misread my post. I said that Pulley was expected to be the starting center not Gates.

In comment 14942001 Eric on Li said:

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he was a 2nd year 6th round pick when he was claimed by the Giants in 2007. He didn't start a game for the team until 2009. When he extended after 09 he'd only started a handful of games. And all the way down the road from 2011-2013 he started 41 games. Having competent young depth players you can groom in your system to step into when necessary is how you avoid being forced to sign/start guys like Marshall Newhouse or praying next year's undrafted Chad Wheeler/Adam Bisnowaty isn't in completely over their head. And if you get lucky and hit on the next Diehl/Seubert, you have a ton of leverage to extend them reasonably as compared to someone like Hernandez who is likely going to need to get extended at close to market rate.

Excellent analysis.

It’s much harder to anchor as a guard then it is as a center, if u remember Richburg’s rookie year he would get blown into the backfield 5 times a game but he got better with it when he moved to center.

Gates problems had more to do with punching and stopping counter pass rush moves, which bodes well for center because he is the help, I didn’t see much problems with anchor strength, imo

In comment 14941950 GiantsFan84 said:

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gates has proven nothing. like legit nothing. they don't even know what position he's going play. is it C? can he even play C? is he a backup G? backup T? has he shown enough to replace zeitler? if that even the plan? he hasn't even got on the field with the new coaching staff. i just don't see the urgency to give him a deal. like what was the rush for this? why not let him play this year and see how he does? this extension is not pennies. same with mayo. they paid him wayyyyyyy too much money for a backup. mayo is a bottom of the roster, minimum salary guy and he's getting $3M. now they are giving gates money. i don't get it

So just over $5.5m per year if it hits whatever the max escalators are is a bad deal for our potential starting C or RT? Ok.

In comment 14941950 GiantsFan84 said:

Quote:

gates has proven nothing. like legit nothing. they don't even know what position he's going play. is it C? can he even play C? is he a backup G? backup T? has he shown enough to replace zeitler? if that even the plan? he hasn't even got on the field with the new coaching staff. i just don't see the urgency to give him a deal. like what was the rush for this? why not let him play this year and see how he does? this extension is not pennies. same with mayo. they paid him wayyyyyyy too much money for a backup. mayo is a bottom of the roster, minimum salary guy and he's getting $3M. now they are giving gates money. i don't get it

You don’t get the move to sign a young player to a deal that will be a bargain if he’s a viable starter? Have you been watching the nfl for the last 25 years?

Says hello. Remember me.

In comment 14941977 David B. said:

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Basically, they're betting FOR him to succeed rather than against him.

Conversely, Gates appears to be betting against himself. Maybe it was the season lost to injury or uncertainty over current events that has him skittish, but he will be hugely underpaid come 2022 if he has established himself as a starter. Hell, he'll be underpaid at that salary if he's nailed down the 6th man role come 2022. And maybe that's the point.

In comment 14941987 David B. said:

Quote:

Quote: One of the benefits of Solder opting out, besides the cap savings, is that it opens up a roster spot for Kyle Murphy. That kid plays like a beast. If he can do it at the NFL level (a BIG IF), they'll really have something. He's another guy I'd try at OC.

David, I agree with you. Due to his size Murphy will play G/C in the NFL. I mentioned how much I loved Murphy tenacity after watching his highlight video. He was constantly playing until the whistle and often past it. This line has been missing a nasty player like Seubert and now the Giants might have two of them in Lemieux and Murphy.

If I had my choice I would have Lemieux and Murphy spending the majority of their practice time at center. I am hoping that Pulley doesn't even make the team because two of these young kids (Gates,Lemieux,Murphy,Haycraft) step up. Unfortunately the chances of that happening are slim due to the limited offseason and practice time.

The level of competition was a concern but if the Giants are patient with Murphy and give him a year to get stronger they might have a very valuable backup with a chance for more.

In comment 14942007 aGiantGuy said:

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It’s much harder to anchor as a guard then it is as a center, if u remember Richburg’s rookie year he would get blown into the backfield 5 times a game but he got better with it when he moved to center. Gates problems had more to do with punching and stopping counter pass rush moves, which bodes well for center because he is the help, I didn’t see much problems with anchor strength, imo

Good post. Players can always get stronger. Gates missed all of his rookie season due to injury.

Gates hopefully is Gettleman's next OL find.

;)

when he got a couple starts. Mostly impressed with his awareness and decent athleticism on field.

None of us know anything with regards to what will play out at Center this year. I actually think he might be best option team has right now at Right Tackle.

A bit surprised at the money he got but Front Office seems to know their stuff at contract time with Offensive Lineman
:-)

In comment 14942018 Jay on the Island said:

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In comment 14942007 aGiantGuy said: Quote: It’s much harder to anchor as a guard then it is as a center, if u remember Richburg’s rookie year he would get blown into the backfield 5 times a game but he got better with it when he moved to center. Gates problems had more to do with punching and stopping counter pass rush moves, which bodes well for center because he is the help, I didn’t see much problems with anchor strength, imo Good post. Players can always get stronger. Gates missed all of his rookie season due to injury. Gates hopefully is Gettleman's next OL find.

You mean his first OL find.

If you include this year, it's a 3-year deal worth $7.5M-$11M (depending on playing time).

Assuming the Giants felt he was worth tendering as a RFA, they controlled his rights for two more years at $675K and the 2nd round tender value of roughly $3.5M. Let's call it $3.325M to keep it simple because $675K and $3.325M equals $4M even. So basically he gets some financial security and they get him for $3.5M-$7M in 2022 (depending on playing time). And that's if they want him in 2022. No mention of how much of it is guaranteed.

In comment 14942024 LBH15 said:

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In comment 14942018 Jay on the Island said: Quote: In comment 14942007 aGiantGuy said: Quote: It’s much harder to anchor as a guard then it is as a center, if u remember Richburg’s rookie year he would get blown into the backfield 5 times a game but he got better with it when he moved to center. Gates problems had more to do with punching and stopping counter pass rush moves, which bodes well for center because he is the help, I didn’t see much problems with anchor strength, imo Good post. Players can always get stronger. Gates missed all of his rookie season due to injury. Gates hopefully is Gettleman's next OL find. You mean his first OL find.

During his short tenure in Carolina Gettleman brought in Andrew Norwell(UDFA), RT Daryl Williams (4th round), G Trai Turner (3rd round), and Mike Remmers(UDFA signed off Rams PS). Norwell, Williams, and Turner were all-pro's or pro bowlers in the past. Gettleman deserves a lot of criticism for some of his moves but he has a great track record with OL.

In comment 14942007 aGiantGuy said:

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It’s much harder to anchor as a guard then it is as a center, if u remember Richburg’s rookie year he would get blown into the backfield 5 times a game but he got better with it when he moved to center. Gates problems had more to do with punching and stopping counter pass rush moves, which bodes well for center because he is the help, I didn’t see much problems with anchor strength, imo

He held his own, but I often saw him getting pushed back and not holding his ground. He did enough to be effective.

He should have let him finish the season either at RT or RG. Zeitler was playing hurt at G and Remmers was clearly not going to be retained. Shurmur decided to play the veterans instead of the young players because he was trying to save his job.

In comment 14941957 Harvest Blend said:

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the Giants front office and coaching staff after extensive film study think they know more the we do? Maybe?

So does that mean every move we question works out? The FO and Coaching staff have made plenty of decisions that didn't pan out, and yes they did have more insight but that doesn't diminish someone else's opinion. The fact remains they've won all of 7(?) games with all of that insight.

In comment 14942032 Jay on the Island said:

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In comment 14942024 LBH15 said: Quote: In comment 14942018 Jay on the Island said: Quote: In comment 14942007 aGiantGuy said: Quote: It’s much harder to anchor as a guard then it is as a center, if u remember Richburg’s rookie year he would get blown into the backfield 5 times a game but he got better with it when he moved to center. Gates problems had more to do with punching and stopping counter pass rush moves, which bodes well for center because he is the help, I didn’t see much problems with anchor strength, imo Good post. Players can always get stronger. Gates missed all of his rookie season due to injury. Gates hopefully is Gettleman's next OL find. You mean his first OL find. During his short tenure in Carolina Gettleman brought in Andrew Norwell(UDFA), RT Daryl Williams (4th round), G Trai Turner (3rd round), and Mike Remmers(UDFA signed off Rams PS). Norwell, Williams, and Turner were all-pro's or pro bowlers in the past. Gettleman deserves a lot of criticism for some of his moves but he has a great track record with OL.

Where did it go?

I think he is at least, a competent backup at all 5 slots, and should compete with Fleming to start at RT this year. Pearl maybe the future there, but he needs at least a year to acclimate to pro level competition. I’d still like to see another center signed.

Zeitler will be making $12.5 in salary.
The Giants may have some flexibility to
cut/trade Zeitler, if Gates is the real thing

In comment 14942038 Mdgiantsfan said:

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In comment 14941957 Harvest Blend said: Quote: the Giants front office and coaching staff after extensive film study think they know more the we do? Maybe? So does that mean every move we question works out? The FO and Coaching staff have made plenty of decisions that didn't pan out, and yes they did have more insight but that doesn't diminish someone else's opinion. The fact remains they've won all of 7(?) games with all of that insight.

When the opinion uses speculation (they have no plan on what position he will be playing) then it loses validity and can be criticized in turn.

In comment 14942001 Eric on Li said:

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he was a 2nd year 6th round pick when he was claimed by the Giants in 2007. He didn't start a game for the team until 2009. When he extended after 09 he'd only started a handful of games. And all the way down the road from 2011-2013 he started 41 games. Having competent young depth players you can groom in your system to step into when necessary is how you avoid being forced to sign/start guys like Marshall Newhouse or praying next year's undrafted Chad Wheeler/Adam Bisnowaty isn't in completely over their head. And if you get lucky and hit on the next Diehl/Seubert, you have a ton of leverage to extend them reasonably as compared to someone like Hernandez who is likely going to need to get extended at close to market rate.

I don't think Boothe is an apt comp at all. He may not have started many games, but anyone watching him in the games he came in saw the steadiness, decent feet, and good power as run blocker. He had a track record.

Gates doesn't.