NFT: Rangers vs Canes

In comment 14943106 bluesince56 said:

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Is the difference right now

And when it's Mrazek in the other net, that's one sad state of affairs.

In comment 14943118 Greg from LI said:

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In comment 14943106 bluesince56 said: Quote: Is the difference right now And when it's Mrazek in the other net, that's one sad state of affairs.

I didn't think the second goal was great considering Hank wasn't screened at all, but there's been one truly soft goal in two games. Mrazek has had a nice night, but the difference is what Carolina is able to throw out there on defense and in their bottom 6 versus what we've got. Keep in mind Dougie Hamilton isn't even in there, probably a top 20 defenseman in the league.

Georgiev is the second best goalie on the team, but I don't think that's been the difference. Carolina is shutting us down 5 on 5 and wearing out our defense with the forecheck.

The good news is we've got the top end forward talent that we never had during Hank's career. Now need to fill in around it

I have no idea why we're playing Henrik over Georgiev. Georgiev is clearly the better goalie at this point.

Giving Hank one last shot I guess. And he hasn't been bad, I don't think you can pin this on him. But obviously he's not capable of stealing anything the way he used to

Bad as Lundqvist has been (and he has been), defenseless against shots above his shoulders, the team looks beaten -- listless, and disorganized. Poor, often aimless passing.

Anyway, the point is that the Rangers relied heavily on superior goaltending to win games they probably shouldn't have won all year long. It's simply part of their plan. The Canes had the deeper roster all year long, but the Rangers beat them four times largely because their goaltenders clearly outplayed their counterparts.

Since they're not getting that, they're losing, and it's not really a surprise.

Quinn talks a good game with the media but his personnel choices have been perplexing all year long, and the team simply does not look ready to play these games.

in practice. This applies specifically to Howden, Giuseppe and McKegg. On 'D' he's in a bind. We're thin and lousy at the same time. Relief is on it's way through the system but he just doesn't have the horses on the blueline right now. I do like his approach and the style of game he preaches. he'll get 20221 to make the jump to the playoffs with this club or he'll be gone.

I hope I don't have to hear how DeAngelo knows he's a shitty defender but 'he's working on it' ever again. He should be moved to forward.

What does that make it? 1-25 on the PP, with the only goal coming on a 5-3?

In comment 14943136 Anakim said:

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What does that make it? 1-25 on the PP, with the only goal coming on a 5-3?

Did Lindy Ruff run the PP? If so maybe they miss him

In comment 14943136 Anakim said:

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What does that make it? 1-25 on the PP, with the only goal coming on a 5-3?

Most of the game is being played in the Rangers' end. No chance of winning that way.

that Kreider extension

miscue.

Lindy Ruff in action.

Also, Svechnikov is so good.

Another horrible performance by the players and coaches

They look utterly awful in virtually every way.

Cross your fingers that they win the lottery and something good comes out of this monstrosity.

from start to finish.

is a good player and was a no-brainer #1, but other than stupidly picking a fight with Ovechkin, Svechnikov has been the better player through 2 seasons.

Big Time!!

See you again for what looks like it will be the last game. More energy and coordination needed to change that. Can they come up with it? Hard to believe they will. On then to the Lottery.

to the series Rangers had the advantage in net with Igor. With Hank I think it's a neutral, and I don't think Hank has been bad (he hasn't been perfect, but he hasn't been bad) and the Rangers need that edge in net to even the ice and help counter the defense deficiencies.

Howden.

Kakko, so what does Quinn do? Bench Gauthier for pretty much the entire third period.

long term. Not good enough on the ice or behind the bench. "Hank" let in two goals today that a D III goalie stops. Hopefully if they don't buy him out they sit him out next year and play the 2 Russians.

In comment 14943174 Anakim said:

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Kakko, so what does Quinn do? Bench Gauthier for pretty much the entire third period.

Gauthier had the least time on ice of any of the forwards...even less than Fogarty.


Unless there's an injury we don't know about that, that's totally unacceptable and inexcusable.

As I mentioned, Gauthier and Kakko are the only two players who haven't looked like total ass this series and yet Gauthier got the least amount of ice-time. HOW!?!? HOW!?!?!??!!!?!?!?

Brett Howden got 14 fucking minutes! He got more ice-time than Chytil! Can someone please tell me what Howden does well!?

At Least their Rangers Career...Please say so...

David Quinn has been besotted with Brett Howden for no apparently reason. Howden literally does nothing well. He brings no offense. He stinks defensively. He can't win faceoffs. Yet there he is out there, game in and game out. No matter how poorly he plays, he never gets benched, never loses ice time.

In comment 14943185 mvftw said:

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At Least their Rangers Career...Please say so...

Both guys should retire. They both suck.


Nearly 20 million dollars are tied up next year on Henrik, Staal, and Smith.


Ho.Lee. Fuck.

Solid!!!

Points, playing Lundqvist was a joke. Lundqvist is a part of the problem. The reason why the team looks so much better with Shesterkin in the net is because of the way he moves and handles the puck, the Rangers were outshot 2 to 1 against Carolina with Hank in the net, they are a quick pressure the puck, forechecking team, we were fortunate to win those games, even lucky, the 1 game Sherterkin played, the Rangers outshot them and were clearly the better team. This playoff series accomplished 2 things, gives us a shot at winning the lottery, and gave us a clear decision to be made, we do not have the right head coach, he has been horrible in this series, which should be unforgivable.

But something is rotten with how the Rangers coach defensemen, whether it was Ruff or Quinn or whatever. Brady Skjei suddenly looks competent again after stinking for the last few seasons. This on the heels of Neal Pionk suddenly blossoming for Winnipeg and Ryan Graves becoming a stalwart for Colorado when he couldn't even get a shot in NY.

I don't profess to know what the hell the problem is, but something is very wrong here.

the bottom 6 is lousy (which it is). The top 6 isn't exactly playing lights out either. Panarin looks nothing like he did during the regular season. Strome is MIA. Kreider has been ineffective. Kakko is probably the forward playing the best, but what has he produced for his efforts? Nada.

All the ex-Hurricanes should be jettisoned in the off season. McKegg, DiGiuseppi and Gathier. Yes, Gathier. What has he done to get accolades?

Staal and Smith need to be bought out or traded for a bag of pucks even though Smith hasn't really been all that lousy.

Other than that, everything's peachy.

and play with some urgency. Why would you want to dump him??

the TDA improvement or the fact Fox was going to have to play "sheltered minutes" or that Lindgren (pretty solid today) was an AHL defenseman?

Pionk is on the same trajectory he was on in NY. A lesser (offensive) TDA. Good puck mover, liability defensively. I'm watching him right now.

Skjei looks the same to me, but he's actually playing sheltered minutes in CAR. He's not a top pair D in CAR and if Hamilton and Pesce were active he'd probably be a 3rd pair D. in NY he was the #1, and that's not him.

Shattenkirk looks exactly the same IMO as Rangers and non-Rangers. Yandle looks exactly the same IMO as Rangers and non-Rangers.

I'd think it was a problem too, but it predates Ruff and Quinn IMO. McDonagh plateaued massively or even regressed before he was traded. and then the Rangers trot out JAGs (to be polite) like Girardi, Staal, Smith, etc and play them significantly.

Watching Kreider, Buchnevich, and even Zibanejad and Panarin being minimal factors in this series is frustrating. Henrik was good game 1, bad today. The difference in this series is Mrazek has been better than Henrik, the Rangers’ PP stinks, and the Canes are putting tons of pressure on the Rangers on both sides of the ice, forcing them into mistakes, and capitalizing on these mistakes. Rangers had some sustained pressure in the first period and parts of the second period today, but rarely generated any high quality scoring chances. When they did, Mrazek shut them down. DeAngelo must be playing hurt, because I would say he’s been the worst player on the ice this series. Rangers’ best players have been Kakko and Gauthier, in my opinion, and I have actually liked Howden’s game.

The Canes look like a polished team, the Rangers look like they don’t really belong, to be honest. I really hope Igor can go tomorrow because the team plays much better in front of him, and I think he could’ve stolen one of these two games if he was in. I have low expectations tomorrow, I hope they can pull out at least one win in this series, but Carolina is just playing at such a higher level right now that it’s hard to imagine the Rangers winning.

In comment 14943230 Greg from LI said:

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and play with some urgency. Why would you want to dump him??

He does nothing. As a forward does he set up teammates? Get scoring chances? He's not any better than McKegg.

I was one of the few people who thought he was fine, and I was not happy that he was bought out. He was overpaid, but performed fairly well. Yandle wasn't my favorite acquisition but he played reasonably well as a Ranger. Both of those guys were finished products who came to the team as vets. My concern is more about developing young defensemen.

Fox looked great from the moment he arrived in the organization. Not sure that anyone with the Rangers deserves all that much credit for him. TDA still is hopeless in his own end - really haven't seen any improvement there. You say you think Pionk has been the same player in the Peg, but the advanced stats don't bear that out. Now, maybe it's a consequence of playing with a more talented team? I don't know. I don't see many Winnipeg games so all I have to go on is metrics. Same thing is true with Skjei, although I also have seen him play the last two games and haven't seen him being a complete disaster the way he was in NY after his rookie year.

I don't know enough about hockey to answer the question. I've never played the game. I do know that something seems off here.

He was a very good defenseman but I think he got worn down physically by a series of injuries and the wear and tear of the all-shotblocking-all-the-time style both Tortorella and Vigneault advocated.

In comment 14943161 pjcas18 said:

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is a good player and was a no-brainer #1, but other than stupidly picking a fight with Ovechkin, Svechnikov has been the better player through 2 seasons.

I said to someone today that BUF should have taken Svechnikov.

I think he's already better, but I also think that elite forward talent is more valuable than elite dmen.

In comment 14943251 Greg from LI said:

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He was a very good defenseman but I think he got worn down physically by a series of injuries and the wear and tear of the all-shotblocking-all-the-time style both Tortorella and Vigneault advocated.

Trouba was a finished product/veteran, but people still blame Ruff for him struggling (vs his salary).

My point all along was these guys in the NHL have played literally thousands of hockey games in their lives. I don't believe a coach in charge on the defense is going to make them forget how to play fundamental defense and no assistant coach is going to implement a system that has players approach the game differently.

The head coach, however, though does in fact usually implement a system that could impact the D. The breakout, the center ice and transition game, the forecheck, when D activate, set plays, etc. all have an impact on the advanced metrics.

But I hesitate to blame Lindy Ruff (who I don't like) for the defensive struggles of Marc Staal, Brendan Smith, Tony DeAngelo, or past Rangers like Dan Girardi or Brady Skjei.

Fox/Lindgren look good. Staal sucks. Those aren't really coaching issues.

I agree with Greg on Shattenkirk, I was not a fan of his buyout.

They need a #1 dman and to get rid of Staal. I think the other big issue is that the forwards suck defensively.

I also think evaluating dmen has been an issue for this team for years. Girardi/Boyle over Stralman, Graves, etc.

Also think fans are overreacting based on these two games - I'm satisfied with the season overall. Was really exciting, saw some young players develop. I expected a borderline playoff team and that's what we got. I don't share the negativity.

In comment 14943285 BrettNYG10 said:

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I also think evaluating dmen has been an issue for this team for years. Girardi/Boyle over Stralman, Graves, etc. Also think fans are overreacting based on these two games - I'm satisfied with the season overall. Was really exciting, saw some young players develop. I expected a borderline playoff team and that's what we got. I don't share the negativity.

It is this reason I would value a solid top pair D (Dahlin) over a forward (Svechnikov). I think top pair D are more elusive. The exception would be if the forward was a center, a legit #1C, or if they were just off the charts like an Ovi or Jagr (and Svechnikov may wind up there, but he's not there yet) and Svenchikov is a wing. I'm not sure there is a wrong answer though in who would you take out of those two in a redraft.

In comment 14943285 BrettNYG10 said:

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I also think evaluating dmen has been an issue for this team for years. Girardi/Boyle over Stralman, Graves, etc. Also think fans are overreacting based on these two games - I'm satisfied with the season overall. Was really exciting, saw some young players develop. I expected a borderline playoff team and that's what we got. I don't share the negativity.

Agreed, despite a good push before the stoppage they most likely wouldn't have gotten in. So I'm glad they got a chance in playoff games that will only help the young players who have all generally played reasonably well here.

Would have liked a better showing in these two games but I can't get too negative about it, Carolina has a very good team and the Igor injury, or whatever it is, took a lot of wind out of our sails. Hopefully we can at least keep the season going a few extra days.

In comment 14943301 pjcas18 said:

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In comment 14943285 BrettNYG10 said: Quote: I also think evaluating dmen has been an issue for this team for years. Girardi/Boyle over Stralman, Graves, etc. Also think fans are overreacting based on these two games - I'm satisfied with the season overall. Was really exciting, saw some young players develop. I expected a borderline playoff team and that's what we got. I don't share the negativity. It is this reason I would value a solid top pair D (Dahlin) over a forward (Svechnikov). I think top pair D are more elusive. The exception would be if the forward was a center, a legit #1C, or if they were just off the charts like an Ovi or Jagr (and Svechnikov may wind up there, but he's not there yet) and Svenchikov is a wing. I'm not sure there is a wrong answer though in who would you take out of those two in a redraft.

Ha, funny - I agree, no wrong answer. It'll be a fun debate for years.

I agree but it will be a disappointing finish if they go out with a whimper playing really bad hockey. That's what we've seen the first two games. Not over yet though.

Anyone ready to get on board with what I said on June 26th: the Rangers aren't ready to compete for a cup and are better served losing to the Canes and settling for a 12.5% chance at the top pick.

I remember some arguing that the youngsters would benefit more from the experience of playoff hockey. Based on their dismal level of play so far, I'm not sure they are learning much of anything worthwhile.

A few games in, my prediction for the Covid Cup is that physicality will likely trump (rusty) skill. Now, physical teams often have an edge due to the nature of playoff hockey, but I suspect that edge will be greater than usual this year due to the extended lay off.

I can't believe I am agreeing with Anakim [joking], but I am rapidly losing faith in Quinn and Gorton. Perhaps JD should be allowed to clean house and start fresh.

does he stop both goals after TDA and Strome's epic fuck-ups? I doubt it. Half of the blue-liners need to be replaced and I honestly think the coach needs to be also. It's one thing to have inexperienced players learning on the job, but to have an inexperienced coach doing that at the same time? This team doesn't look remotely prepared for what they were going to face. It's obviously not all his fault, but they've looked horrible for nearly all 9 periods in Toronto, including the warm-up.

Probably just trying to psyche the Canes out...